Thursday, May 10, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[00:04:15] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
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[00:14:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[00:37:18] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[00:39:00] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[00:42:20] *** Neustradamus has left the room
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[01:13:02] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[02:15:07] *** UsL shows as "away" and his status message is " (afk at least 6 minutes by now)"
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[02:15:18] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[02:16:58] *** UsL shows as "online"
[02:19:20] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[02:19:20] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[02:19:45] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[02:20:52] *** Chobbes shows as "online"
[02:27:16] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[02:27:16] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[02:27:18] *** dwd has left the room
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[02:41:18] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[02:41:45] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[02:41:46] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[02:43:24] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[02:43:46] *** Chobbes has left the room
[02:43:50] *** Chobbes shows as "online"
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[02:47:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[02:51:18] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[02:52:47] *** stefandxm has left the room
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[02:52:49] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[03:06:30] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[03:08:24] *** dwd has left the room
[03:11:34] *** UsL shows as "away" and his status message is " (afk at least 6 minutes by now)"
[03:19:30] *** UsL shows as "xa" and his status message is " (ded at least 14 minutes by now)"
[03:37:48] *** j.r has joined the room
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[04:15:23] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
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[04:31:35] *** Lance shows as "online"
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[05:03:01] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[05:05:49] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[05:05:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[05:06:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[05:28:04] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[05:29:01] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[05:48:49] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[05:48:57] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[05:48:57] *** alacer has joined the room
[05:50:41] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[05:53:40] *** rtq3 has left the room
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[05:54:07] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[05:54:24] *** goffi has joined the room
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[05:55:06] *** daniel shows as "online"
[05:55:07] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[05:55:18] *** alacer has joined the room
[06:00:41] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[06:02:19] *** Tobias has joined the room
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[06:03:33] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[06:04:07] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[06:04:32] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[06:10:34] *** blabla shows as "online"
[06:10:36] *** andy has joined the room
[06:14:37] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
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[06:19:37] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
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[06:27:07] *** goffi shows as "online"
[06:29:56] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[06:32:17] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[06:32:56] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
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[07:04:05] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:04:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[07:05:27] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[07:08:03] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[07:08:23] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:09:50] *** lnj has joined the room
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[07:12:06] *** goffi shows as "online"
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[07:13:29] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:14:25] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[07:14:37] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:16:43] *** lovetox has joined the room
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[07:18:57] *** Kev shows as "online"
[07:19:37] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[07:21:59] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[07:22:54] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
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[07:23:21] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[07:30:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[07:35:33] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[07:39:25] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:39:29] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:40:00] *** andy shows as "away"
[07:43:01] *** jubalh has joined the room
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[07:45:01] *** andy shows as "xa"
[07:45:46] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
[07:46:03] *** Wiktor shows as "online"
[07:46:16] <daniel> pep.: xmpp:gpn18@conference.conversations.im?join
[07:49:45] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:50:11] <daniel> Maybe Link Mauve is interested as well? Are you going to gpn?
[07:50:27] *** marmistrz has left the room
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[07:51:33] *** andy shows as "online"
[07:51:54] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[07:52:31] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:52:43] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[07:53:57] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[07:54:14] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:54:26] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[07:56:04] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:56:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:56:19] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:56:33] *** andy shows as "away"
[07:57:41] *** alacer has joined the room
[07:57:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
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[07:58:28] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:58:32] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:58:37] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:58:37] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:58:57] *** andy shows as "online"
[07:59:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:01:37] *** Kev shows as "online"
[08:03:54] *** dwd has joined the room
[08:03:57] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[08:04:37] *** dwd has left the room
[08:05:35] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
[08:05:36] *** alacer has left the room
[08:09:03] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:10:56] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[08:10:57] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[08:11:33] *** Guus has left the room
[08:16:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:17:42] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:21:00] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[08:23:14] *** Guus has left the room
[08:23:14] *** Guus shows as "online"
[08:23:46] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[08:24:15] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:25:17] *** SaltyBones has joined the room
[08:27:17] *** tux shows as "online"
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[08:29:12] *** stefandxm has left the room
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[08:32:12] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:35:33] *** Guus has left the room
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[08:39:11] *** Alex has joined the room
[08:42:39] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[08:42:54] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[08:43:21] *** andy shows as "away"
[08:45:21] *** daniel has left the room
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[08:46:21] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
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[08:48:22] *** andy shows as "xa"
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[08:49:27] *** andy shows as "online"
[08:50:03] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[08:53:47] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
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[08:53:52] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[08:54:02] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:54:38] *** rion has joined the room
[08:57:20] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[08:58:11] *** dwd has left the room
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[08:59:14] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:00:08] *** dwd has joined the room
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[09:06:58] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[09:07:04] *** marmistrz has joined the room
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[09:12:04] *** daniel has left the room
[09:12:08] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:12:08] *** daniel has joined the room
[09:18:32] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[09:19:23] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[09:20:49] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[09:21:37] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[09:22:19] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[09:22:40] *** ta has left the room
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[09:23:48] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:25:38] *** Kev shows as "away"
[09:25:55] *** rtq3 has left the room
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[09:26:21] *** daniel has left the room
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[09:27:14] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[09:27:15] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[09:27:16] *** xnyhps has left the room
[09:29:31] *** lnj shows as "online"
[09:31:15] *** dwd has left the room
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[09:33:48] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:33:49] *** Kev shows as "online"
[09:33:57] *** Valerian has left the room
[09:34:00] *** Valerian has joined the room
[09:34:22] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[09:34:49] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
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[09:55:24] <Link Mauve> daniel, I was planning to, but ended up not planning anything. :x
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[09:55:58] <pep.> (surprinsingly enough)
[09:58:28] <jonasw> ELOGIC
[09:59:37] <Ge0rG> Man (in club): "Hey DJ, play Love to Hate You"
DJ: "No"
Man: "I demand it under my Right to Erasure"
[09:59:56] <jonasw> m
[10:00:02] <jonasw> I suppose erasure is a band or something?
[10:00:14] <jonasw> I’m not sure if I should be happy that I can infer that or whether that’s a sign that my mind is twisted.
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[10:18:39] <Dave Cridland> fippo, You about? I've some XEP-0220 questions. (Mostly about errors).
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[10:20:47] <Dave Cridland> Anyone else might know, too. I've an amusing... Bug? in Metre. Sequence is roughly the following:
[10:21:10] <Dave Cridland> Metre -> Other : Outbound connection, bidi-enabled, sends dialback request.
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[10:21:38] <Dave Cridland> Other -> Metre : Inbound connection, SASL-authenticated, bidi-enabled, sends dialback verify request.
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[10:22:21] <Dave Cridland> However, Metre has already closed its outbound, seeing a usable and authenticated bidi-enabled inbound session. So it rejects the db:verify because it's referencing an id it knows to be closed.
[10:22:25] <Dave Cridland> So, questions:
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[10:22:57] <Dave Cridland> 1) Should a db:verify that's valid, but referencing a closed session, be returned "valid", "invalid", or "error"? And if "error", what error code?
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[10:24:30] <Dave Cridland> In fact, that's kind of it. I may well tell Metre to leave any session that's even requested auth up when it sees a bidi possibility, even if it feels less optimal, but I'm curious about how to handle it nonetheless.
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[10:27:36] <fippo> dwd: why does the fact that the connection associated with the id influence the validity of the dialback key?
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[10:28:45] <Dave Cridland> fippo, Paranoia.
[10:29:09] <Dave Cridland> fippo, Metre won't respond "valid" unless the outgoing stream exists and is in the right auth state (REQUESTED).
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[10:32:35] <Link Mauve> Dave Cridland, btw, is Metre multi-threaded, at least for TLS handshakes?
[10:33:04] <Link Mauve> Now that my personal server got two cores, I was thinking about using something in front of Prosody for that.
[10:33:09] <fippo> hrm. in that case you might need to keep the connection around for a bit longer. or hope that people like me stop using old certificates :-)
[10:33:11] <Dave Cridland> Link Mauve, Nope, not yet.
[10:33:14] <Link Mauve> Ok.
[10:34:01] <Dave Cridland> Link Mauve, Of course, it'd offload the TLS from Prosody, an you can run Prosody as a component which'd possibly work neater.
[10:34:27] <Ge0rG> Link Mauve: how much CPU time are you currently spending on TLS handshakes?
[10:34:33] <Dave Cridland> Mind you, you can also run Prosody as a component host for another Prosody acting as the user, so...
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[10:35:39] <Link Mauve> Ge0rG, enough that s2s doesn't reliably establish before its timeout on server restart.
[10:36:09] <Link Mauve> It is a real toaster!
[10:36:55] <Dave Cridland> Link Mauve, I do have a bug there - although Metre uses libunbound in async mode, it seems to have a limit in the number of queries it allows in-flight (or maybe it's a sync interface hidden in the other thread).
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[10:37:48] <Link Mauve> Hmm...
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[10:38:45] <Ge0rG> Link Mauve: send pictures!
[10:38:51] <Dave Cridland> Link Mauve, I'll get around to fixing that one though.
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[10:40:32] <Link Mauve> Ge0rG, I'm not at home right now, maybe later!
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[10:45:03] <pep.> Link Mauve: prosody might not like it bit handling TLS anymore? What's the thing again in sasl that needs stuff from the TLS session
[10:45:12] <pep.> Not* handling
[10:51:13] <Link Mauve> pep., SCRAM-SHA-*-PLUS, but if you can transmit that it's fine.
[10:52:40] <Zash> Metre doesn't do c2s tho
[10:52:47] <Zash> Or does it?
[10:53:06] <Link Mauve> In this case Prosody would be the one doing it.
[10:53:15] <Link Mauve> Metre would only establish the connection.
[10:53:18] <Link Mauve> AFAIK.
[10:54:31] <Dave Cridland> Metre won't even listen to C2S ports.
[10:55:27] <Dave Cridland> Metre just does S2S and '114. (Well, and '368 and '361)
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[10:58:12] <Link Mauve> Oh.
[10:58:44] <Link Mauve> So yeah pep., your question doesn't make sense, Prosody would still listen there.
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[10:59:29] <pep.> Ok
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[12:56:25] <Dave Cridland> vanitasvitae, "a function that teenagers find neat" - ah, the youth of today, eh?
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[13:03:24] <Steve Kille> Any news on fixing Travis?
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[13:06:27] <remko> vanitasvitae: I actually use signal only because it has this feature. Thanks for the compliment!
[13:07:00] <vanitasvitae> remko, you're welcome ;)
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[13:08:48] <remko> vanitasvitae: I find it useful to e.g. send passwords to someone. I know they won't delete it themselves, so i do some extra security management for them :)
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[13:09:35] <vanitasvitae> I'd not really call that security management but I get the point
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[13:13:36] <Kev> It is if you trust them to be incompetent rather than malicious.
[13:13:54] <Kev> e.g. relatives
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[13:15:15] <remko> exactly
[13:15:27] <remko> although worded differently when in presence of
[13:15:58] <Kev> If you say so :)
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[13:20:59] <ralphm> Sometimes, honesty is best
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[13:22:48] <remko> as usual, whenever I step in to a thread on the list, it derails quickly.
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[13:24:18] <Kev> Moth to a flame.
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[13:25:11] <remko> yeah, i'm still going with the assumption that i'm the moth, so it's not really my fault.
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[15:27:58] <jonasw> Steve Kille, hey, your XEP-0369 update makes non-editorial changes. I would like to keep the version numbers semantic, so would it be okay if I change the number of that release to 0.10.0 instead of 0.9.7?
[15:28:17] <jonasw> (The idea is that changes to z in x.y.z should only be of editorial nature, to make it easier to guage the impact of an update)
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[15:43:38] <Steve Kille> jonasw: that is fine. I was not sure. I had the sense that small technical changes should not bump the middle number, but happy to follow best practice
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[15:44:20] <Steve Kille> Although there was quite a bit of text change, there was nothing radical changed
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[15:49:21] <jonasw> Steve Kille, cool, will do then
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[15:51:45] <Kev> Smallest number is editorial changes only. Largest number is Advancement. Anything else is middle number.
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[16:02:27] <Steve Kille> got it
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[16:25:18] <Kev> Is XEP-0404 still available? I've got a non-April 1st use for it that I want.
[16:25:34] <jonasw> Kev, yes
[16:25:43] <Kev> jonasw: Could you 'reserve' that one for me please?
[16:25:57] <jonasw> Kev, yeah
[16:26:03] <Kev> I'll explain in a bit, just on a call at the moment and thought of it.
[16:26:07] <jonasw> no worries
[16:26:15] <jonasw> next one is going to be 403 anyways
[16:26:23] <jonasw> and since there’s no other protoxep in the queue...
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[20:31:00] <Neustradamus> There is a problem of certificate for jabber.org, we must create a ticket?
[20:32:34] <Neustradamus> https://github.com/stpeter/jabberdotorg/issues/2
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