Wednesday, May 23, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[07:58:45] <tux> I like how Terms of Service are mapped to 404. It's honest.
[07:59:08] <Ge0rG> tux: but they aren't.
[07:59:35] <tux> In your proposal
[07:59:51] <Ge0rG> We should have mapped 404 to pidgin.
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[08:17:32] <Wiktor> and gdpr to 451 - unavailable for legal reasons ;)
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[08:19:22] <jonasw> hah
[08:19:29] <jonasw> that’d be even better ;-)
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[08:20:41] <winfried> :-D
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[08:43:53] <flow> Guus, any motiviation to resume https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/579 ?
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[08:50:25] <Guus> flow: yes, but time.
[08:50:34] <Guus> Also: house flooded
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[08:52:22] <jonasw> Guus, oh, are you folks alright?
[08:54:09] <Guus> Yeah, but damages
[08:54:16] <jonasw> insurance?
[08:54:17] <Guus> Including main laptop
[08:54:27] <Guus> Yeah, insured
[08:54:39] <jonasw> pfew, that’s good
[08:54:52] <jonasw> can’t replace everything probably, but at least no financial ruin?
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[08:56:09] <Guus> Our house was supposed to go up for sale today...
[08:56:17] <winfried> And a lot of hassle... I hope your data is secured.
[08:56:24] <Guus> The timing is aweful
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[08:57:06] <winfried> That is bad timing indeed, that thunderstorm should have diverted to Rotterdam, it just missed us here...
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[08:57:45] <Guus> So you got a raincheck
[08:57:57] <Guus> Badum-tisssh
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[09:01:06] <winfried> ... whished it missed your place and hit us.
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[09:06:01] <Guus> Georg warned me about bad karma after putting pidgin on the quick start guide... 😉
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[09:06:56] <Dave Cridland> GDPR 2, The Revenge, looks like it might be fun - ISO/PC 317, defining a new consumer privacy standard that would go over and above GDPR.
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[09:08:32] <Dave Cridland> Guus, Man, I feel for you - see if your insurance will cover incidental costs due to delaying your move.
[09:10:18] <Guus> Tx, will try
[09:10:58] <winfried> Dave Cridland: do you have any reference about ISO/PC 317? Can't find any documents @ISO (would be interesting to see China go over and above the GDPR)
[09:11:20] <jonasw> Guus, ew, that’s awful timing
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[09:11:22] <jonasw> good luck
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[09:13:40] <Dave Cridland> Guus, Also, don't forget to ensure your house gets a complete pre-sale makeover out of this - if you end up with new kitchen, that could easily boost the sale value quite a ways.
[09:13:57] <Dave Cridland> winfried, Just popped up on an OASIS list I'm on.
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[09:14:17] <Dave Cridland> winfried, Still in formation, and the US hasn't started playing ball yet.
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[09:14:37] <intosi> https://www.iso.org/committee/6935430.html
[09:14:49] <intosi> That's about it.
[09:15:47] <intosi> And https://www.iso.org/news/ref2291.html
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[09:22:14] <winfried> intosi: thanks, I found the committee, but not the interview: “What’s more, it will also go wider than the new EU regulations for data protection by also addressing cyber security, that is, the security of our products in our homes – an important issue for everyone.” - making the link between privacy and security is interesting. This vastly under regulated (and of potential interest of XMPP IoT) but it comes at the cost of the danger of a too technical approach to privacy.
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[09:23:01] <Kev> It doesn't matter what your data retention policy is, if the devices you sell leak all those data anyway.
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[09:23:16] <Kev> So that seems like a reasonable link to me.
[09:23:56] <Ge0rG> Guus: sorry to hear that. I got my own house sale delayed by four months due to water damage.
[09:24:31] <Kev> Guus: That sucks royally, sorry :/
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[09:25:46] <Ge0rG> Also I'm pretty sure the karma bump due to Pidgin can't be *that* bad.
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[09:26:25] <winfried> Ge0rG: so far for the concept of karma ;-)
[09:26:51] <intosi> Guus: that's terrible, hope you can get things sorted quickly :(
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[13:08:05] <Zash> Guus: That's a bummer. Hope it works out.
[13:09:45] <Zash> Was a bit scary that I only saw people asking if you were ok, the message saying what had happend wasn't in the <history> buffer I got.
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[13:10:26] <Zash> Oh, great
[13:10:40] <Zash> May 22 16:38:21 sphyrna postfix/smtpd[5116]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from atlas.jabber.org[208.68.163.215]: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [208.68.163.215] blocked using spam.dnsbl.sorbs.net; Spam Received See: http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?208.68.163.215; from=<jdev-bounces@jabber.org> to=<zash@zash.se> proto=ESMTP helo=<atlas.jabber.org>
[13:10:56] <Zash> So that's why I haven't gotten any list posts recently
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[13:11:37] <jonasw> ow
[13:12:02] <jonasw> that should probably go into the iteam MUC
[13:12:33] <jonasw> (forwarded)
[13:12:34] <Zash> Is there one?
[13:12:36] <Zash> Ah, thanks
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[13:12:44] <jonasw> yes: xmpp:iteam@muc.xmpp.org?join
[13:12:59] <Zash> And I had also lost my autojoin flag on this room
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[13:14:42] <Zash> I had forgotten I added sorbs. And I've noticed no reduction in spam.
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[13:20:27] <Zash> That's great. Seems it mostly blocked legitimate mailing lists, like IETF, XSF, oss-security etc
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[13:24:39] <Zash> MAM for email would have been nice right about now
[13:24:52] <Ge0rG> Like... IMAP?
[13:25:01] <Ge0rG> Zash: ITYM MUC-MAM
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[13:34:54] <flow> I feel a little bit sad about fanout.io dropping XMPP, although I've never used it nor have I any stakes in it (my only relation towards it is Smack → mtucker → fanout.io)
[13:38:15] <Kev> Oh, Matt's there too? I only knew about Justin from the XMPP crowd.
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[13:38:41] <flow> He's listed as technical advisor IIRC
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[15:03:52] <Dave Cridland> Ge0rG, you about?
[15:04:53] <Ge0rG> Dave Cridland: oh, right. My laptop just lost wifi, will join from mobile
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[15:55:51] <jonasw> can we maybe burn non-data-form IBR?
[15:56:00] <jonasw> it is a PITA that we have two IBR flows.
[15:56:19] <pep.> jonasw, yes please
[15:56:21] <Ge0rG> The one that's usable and the one that's a complex nightmare?
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[15:56:38] <Zash> jonasw: I don't think anyone supports dataform IBR tho
[15:56:43] <jonasw> I won’t go over the "it’s trivial to make data-form IBR simple for simple cases" argument again.
[15:56:50] <jonasw> not this again.
[15:57:03] <jonasw> so the sensibly extensible protocol isn’t deployed anywhere?
[15:57:07] <Zash> Nice things, navailable they be. </yoda>
[15:57:28] <Zash> Converse.js does it I think
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[15:59:01] <pep.> marc, Ge0rG, what was that XEP you made again, the invite thing
[15:59:12] <pep.> Or is it coupled to PARS
[15:59:22] <Ge0rG> 401
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[16:00:22] <marc> pep.: it is an addition to PARS
[16:00:37] <pep.> marc, right, I was just looking for the number thanks :)
[16:00:44] <Ge0rG> Which I haven't implemented because of... guess it... IBR data forms
[16:00:50] <pep.> Ge0rG, ha!
[16:01:08] <pep.> marc, "Example 5. Exceute account creation command" typo btw
[16:01:22] <jonasw> pep., make a PR
[16:01:31] <pep.> I'm waiting to find more :p
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[16:04:24] <jonasw> but a PR (as long as the changes are editorial) is better than pinging the author
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[16:04:50] <pep.> Done.
[16:05:02] <pep.> Maybe he had other changes he wanted to put in there etc. ~
[16:05:21] <jonasw> I nearly missed the members survey because it was swamped under GDPR minutes
[16:05:41] <jonasw> maybe it’d be good to re-announce that survey (even though the thread bump by stpeter might’ve done just that)
[16:06:07] <Zash> When was that? Did it get eaten by the "spam filter"?
[16:06:18] <pep.> yeah, who thought sending minutes for the GDPR meetings was a good idea..
[16:06:49] <jonasw> Zash, the original mail was on May 16th and the bump was today at 05:47+0020
[16:07:26] <Zash> I've got nothing after May 14
[16:07:45] <Zash> Last one I have on my phone is a "Thoughts on MIX ..." by goffi
[16:08:07] <jonasw> ew
[16:08:15] <jonasw> that’s why I monitor bounces :/
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[16:08:27] <Zash> That's why I normally don't touch my email
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[16:08:30] <jonasw> (but I don’t look at the graphs, so that’s 50/50)
[16:08:36] <Zash> I set it up a billion years ago and it Just Worked since then
[16:08:54] <Zash> I have monitoring ... but does it log bounces?
[16:09:11] <Zash> Nope
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[16:11:16] <peter> thread bumps FTW
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[16:11:43] <Kev> Necromancy gets an unduly bad name :)
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[16:12:03] <jonasw> Kev, only in certain circles. Nothing wrong with necromancy. (mutters) Fresh meat for the evergrowing army of undead.
[16:12:21] <Zash> jonasw: So how are you feeling about the XEP-60 split?
[16:12:24] <Ge0rG> Is the Google survey GDPR compliant?
[16:12:29] <jonasw> Zash, which XEP-0060 split?
[16:12:38] <Zash> jonasw: The one I have photo evidence of somewhere.
[16:12:49] <jonasw> I don’t know what you’re talking about :)
[16:12:53] <Zash> While they were planning MIX on a whiteboard in the background...
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[16:14:23] <pep.> Ge0rG, tbh I would have preferred something like https://framaforms.org/, but that doesn't answer your question, and I don't think this services changes anything re GDPR
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[16:17:36] <pep.> Ge0rG, tbh I would have preferred something like https://framaforms.org/, but that doesn't answer your question, and I don't think this service changes anything re GDPR
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[16:24:03] <jonasw> Zash, also why does that need my opinion? ;-)
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[16:24:40] <Zash> It doesn't.
[16:24:47] <jonasw> I wonder whether the legislators put the May 25th as deadline intentionally. It’s Towel Day / Don’t Panic Day :-)
[16:24:54] <Zash> Haha
[16:25:17] <Zash> Not impossible!
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[16:28:48] <pep.> :D
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[21:26:30] <Link Mauve> Andrew Nenakhov, do you have a MUC dedicated to Xabber?
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