Thursday, May 31, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
May
Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun
  1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
     
             
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[00:00:03] *** muppeth has left the room
[00:00:04] *** muppeth shows as "online"
[00:01:13] *** muppeth has left the room
[00:01:56] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[00:02:16] *** waqas has left the room
[00:04:11] *** muppeth shows as "online"
[00:07:46] *** Zash has left the room
[00:08:36] *** alexis has left the room
[00:09:15] *** alexis has joined the room
[00:14:44] *** alexis has left the room
[00:15:24] *** alexis has joined the room
[00:20:02] *** j.r has joined the room
[00:22:29] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[00:22:33] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[00:32:50] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[00:33:45] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[00:34:57] *** j.r has joined the room
[00:38:04] *** matlag shows as "online"
[00:45:01] *** peter shows as "online"
[00:45:56] *** SamWhited has left the room
[00:45:58] *** SamWhited has joined the room
[01:08:47] *** alexis has left the room
[01:09:15] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[01:09:28] *** alexis has joined the room
[01:13:50] *** tux has left the room
[01:13:51] *** tux has joined the room
[01:27:12] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[01:53:53] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[01:57:09] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[02:08:54] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[02:09:47] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[02:33:29] *** Chobbes shows as "online"
[02:42:05] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[02:42:24] *** mrdoctorwho has left the room
[02:42:28] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[02:58:53] *** matlag has left the room
[03:06:56] *** efrit has left the room
[03:13:10] *** alexis has left the room
[03:13:48] *** alexis has joined the room
[03:24:22] *** winfried has left the room
[03:24:22] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[03:32:15] *** Guus has left the room
[03:32:15] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:32:21] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:32:35] *** Guus has left the room
[03:32:35] *** Guus has left the room
[03:32:41] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:32:45] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:33:55] *** matlag shows as "online"
[03:37:39] *** Guus has left the room
[03:44:16] *** waqas has joined the room
[03:54:36] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[04:03:29] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[04:03:31] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[04:03:32] *** Nekit has joined the room
[04:04:13] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[04:04:16] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[04:05:26] *** efrit has joined the room
[04:06:49] *** igor75 has left the room
[04:06:50] *** igor75 has joined the room
[04:07:37] *** j.r has joined the room
[04:07:57] *** igor75 has left the room
[04:07:59] *** igor75 has joined the room
[04:14:41] *** lorddavidiii has joined the room
[04:17:50] *** j.r has joined the room
[04:18:59] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[04:19:18] *** lorddavidiii has joined the room
[04:30:26] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[04:30:36] *** mikaela has joined the room
[04:36:32] *** lnj has joined the room
[04:36:44] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[04:37:58] *** j.r has left the room
[04:38:10] *** j.r has joined the room
[04:40:11] *** mikaela shows as "online"
[04:44:20] *** mikaela has left the room
[04:44:22] *** mikaela shows as "online"
[04:44:54] *** Lance has joined the room
[04:51:14] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:51:15] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[04:51:40] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:51:44] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[04:52:07] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[04:52:09] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[04:56:48] *** ibikk has joined the room
[04:57:12] *** rion shows as "online"
[04:58:29] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[04:59:04] *** mimi89999 has joined the room
[05:03:26] *** alexis has left the room
[05:04:03] *** alexis has joined the room
[05:06:20] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[05:06:37] *** rion has left the room
[05:06:58] *** rion shows as "online"
[05:11:35] *** ibikk shows as "online"
[05:11:57] *** daniel has joined the room
[05:16:08] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[05:16:09] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[05:16:11] *** Nekit shows as "online"
[05:20:54] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[05:20:54] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[05:26:52] *** thorsten has left the room
[05:27:28] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[05:27:30] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[05:27:48] *** efrit has left the room
[05:28:20] *** j.r has joined the room
[05:29:13] *** efrit has joined the room
[05:32:35] *** Nekit shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[05:32:39] *** goffi has joined the room
[05:34:07] *** Nekit shows as "online"
[05:34:16] *** Nekit has left the room
[05:35:35] *** rion shows as "online"
[05:35:48] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[05:40:00] *** Lance has joined the room
[05:41:25] *** Nekit has left the room
[05:41:26] *** Nekit has joined the room
[05:54:16] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[05:54:48] <jonasw> Kev, I heard swift can do XEP-0055 (Jabber Search). Does it support RSM-based pagination and if so, where is the RSM element included? And if not, do you think RSM would be a reasonable way to do that and if so, where would the RSM element go?
[05:55:58] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[05:57:03] *** Nekit has joined the room
[05:58:42] *** alexis has left the room
[05:58:58] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[05:59:28] *** alexis has joined the room
[06:00:25] *** daniel has left the room
[06:00:41] *** ta shows as "online"
[06:00:48] *** efrit has left the room
[06:01:02] *** marc shows as "online"
[06:03:18] *** Guus has left the room
[06:03:19] *** Guus shows as "online"
[06:03:20] *** Guus shows as "online"
[06:04:16] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[06:04:42] *** alexis has left the room
[06:05:19] *** alexis has joined the room
[06:06:04] *** Guus has left the room
[06:10:58] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[06:14:12] *** Chobbes shows as "online"
[06:15:36] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:15:37] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[06:16:21] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[06:20:01] *** j.r has joined the room
[06:28:58] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[06:30:19] *** Zash shows as "online"
[06:31:48] *** Guus has left the room
[06:31:48] *** Guus has left the room
[06:31:55] *** Guus has joined the room
[06:32:01] *** Guus shows as "online"
[06:32:58] *** daniel has joined the room
[06:34:43] *** ibikk shows as "online"
[06:36:31] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[06:37:12] *** Zash has left the room
[06:37:34] *** Tim has joined the room
[06:40:56] *** blabla has left the room
[06:41:02] *** blabla has joined the room
[06:43:26] *** rion has left the room
[06:43:38] *** rion shows as "online"
[06:44:56] <Kev> It does 55, I don't believe we RSM.
[06:46:00] *** Kev shows as "online"
[06:46:01] <jonasw> I’d very much like to not return 4000 entries in one reply though
[06:46:58] <Kev> I don't think 55 supports RSM does it?
[06:47:22] <jonasw> does *anything* before XEP-0059 "support" RSM?
[06:47:46] <jonasw> oh look at this, XEP-0059 even uses XEP-0055 as example for RSM
[06:48:10] <jonasw> and it’s allegedly used with disco#items
[06:48:17] <jonasw> (even though I haven’t seen that in the wild with MUC services yet)
[06:48:23] <goffi> I though RSM could be applied anywhere without need to specify it. This this was we answered to me when I asked for disco in the past.
[06:48:24] <jonasw> (AFAICT)
[06:49:04] <goffi> I thought RSM could be applied anywhere without need to specify it. This this what was answered to me when I asked for disco in the past.
[06:49:50] *** rion has left the room
[06:51:10] *** mikaela shows as "online"
[06:51:50] *** mikaela shows as "online"
[06:51:51] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[06:52:47] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[06:53:15] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[06:53:27] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[06:55:42] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[06:55:47] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:55:47] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[06:56:12] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[06:56:14] *** intosi shows as "online"
[06:56:17] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[06:58:03] *** Zash shows as "online"
[06:59:00] *** Kev shows as "away"
[07:01:19] *** Zash has left the room
[07:02:04] *** waqas has left the room
[07:05:20] *** rion has left the room
[07:08:09] *** Tim shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[07:11:22] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[07:11:46] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[07:11:50] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[07:12:37] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:13:41] *** Tim shows as "online"
[07:14:07] *** mikeao has joined the room
[07:14:39] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:17:07] *** jubalh has joined the room
[07:19:36] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[07:19:47] *** blabla has left the room
[07:19:53] *** blabla has joined the room
[07:19:55] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[07:20:01] *** edhelas shows as "online"
[07:23:14] *** edhelas has left the room
[07:23:41] *** edhelas shows as "online"
[07:27:23] <jonasw> is there any standard for something like XEP-0055 (Jabber Search) but for MUCs? (not disco#items)
[07:28:41] *** Valerian has joined the room
[07:30:42] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:30:44] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:32:00] *** ibikk has joined the room
[07:34:57] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[07:35:15] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[07:35:56] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[07:35:58] *** xnyhps has left the room
[07:40:08] *** edhelas has left the room
[07:40:17] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[07:41:41] *** daniel has left the room
[07:43:13] *** marc has left the room
[07:44:11] *** blabla has left the room
[07:44:15] *** blabla has joined the room
[07:44:36] *** ta shows as "online"
[07:45:06] *** marc shows as "online"
[07:45:15] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[07:46:15] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[07:46:38] *** Zash has left the room
[07:46:44] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[07:46:47] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:46:49] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:46:56] *** jubalh has joined the room
[07:47:41] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[07:51:57] *** j.r has left the room
[07:51:58] *** j.r has joined the room
[07:55:09] <goffi> jonasw: what prevent you from using XEP-0055 with MUC ? It returns jid and can use data form for any extra data you wish.
[07:58:53] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
[07:59:26] *** andy has joined the room
[08:01:09] *** muppeth shows as "online"
[08:01:58] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[08:02:55] *** Valerian has left the room
[08:02:56] *** Valerian has joined the room
[08:04:05] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[08:04:17] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[08:04:17] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[08:04:34] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[08:05:14] *** andy has left the room
[08:05:14] *** andy has joined the room
[08:05:34] *** andy shows as "online"
[08:05:59] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[08:06:25] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[08:07:06] *** ralphm has joined the room
[08:07:46] *** Valerian has left the room
[08:07:47] *** Valerian has joined the room
[08:08:56] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[08:08:59] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[08:09:15] *** muppeth shows as "online"
[08:10:30] *** marc has left the room
[08:10:32] *** winfried shows as "online"
[08:10:41] *** marc shows as "online"
[08:14:38] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[08:15:51] *** lorddavidiii has joined the room
[08:18:26] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[08:18:35] *** Kev shows as "online"
[08:18:57] *** lorddavidiii has joined the room
[08:19:18] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[08:20:47] *** tux shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work work …"
[08:23:38] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[08:24:48] *** pep. shows as "online"
[08:25:05] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[08:25:13] *** Lance has joined the room
[08:25:58] *** daniel has joined the room
[08:29:48] *** lnj has left the room
[08:30:09] *** Zash has joined the room
[08:30:53] *** muppeth shows as "online"
[08:30:55] <jonasw> goffi: sure, I can re-use bits of 55 but I was wondering whether there was any precedent for that
[08:31:02] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[08:31:29] *** muppeth has left the room
[08:31:30] *** muppeth shows as "online"
[08:31:32] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[08:32:43] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[08:33:35] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[08:34:59] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[08:35:16] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[08:36:00] *** blabla has left the room
[08:36:04] *** blabla has joined the room
[08:37:44] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[08:42:16] *** Zash shows as "online"
[08:43:44] *** marmistrz has joined the room
[08:44:00] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[08:44:02] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[08:44:16] *** edhelas shows as "online"
[08:45:00] *** Zash has left the room
[08:45:14] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[08:47:00] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[08:47:14] *** Syndace has joined the room
[08:48:12] *** lumi has joined the room
[08:49:46] *** Valerian has left the room
[08:49:49] *** Valerian has joined the room
[08:50:04] *** Valerian has left the room
[08:57:47] *** muppeth has left the room
[08:58:06] *** edhelas has left the room
[08:58:11] *** muppeth shows as "online"
[09:00:02] *** ta has left the room
[09:00:10] *** ta shows as "online"
[09:05:33] *** Zash shows as "online"
[09:05:38] *** Zash shows as "online"
[09:05:53] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[09:08:21] *** ta shows as "online"
[09:09:46] *** blabla shows as "online"
[09:11:54] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[09:11:54] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[09:12:54] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[09:16:08] *** daniel shows as "online"
[09:17:01] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[09:17:53] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[09:17:53] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[09:18:39] *** mikaela has left the room
[09:24:58] *** intosi shows as "online"
[09:25:31] *** jubalh has joined the room
[09:25:34] *** marc has left the room
[09:28:00] *** rtq3 has left the room
[09:29:43] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[09:33:32] *** edhelas has left the room
[09:33:56] *** edhelas has joined the room
[09:34:21] *** edhelas has left the room
[09:34:36] *** edhelas has joined the room
[09:35:12] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:39:03] *** rion shows as "online"
[09:42:28] *** ibikk shows as "online"
[09:45:44] *** Syndace has joined the room
[09:46:23] *** Lance has joined the room
[09:49:36] *** Zash shows as "online"
[09:49:55] *** Zash has left the room
[09:52:36] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:52:41] *** intosi shows as "online"
[09:59:43] *** Zash shows as "online"
[10:00:53] *** andy shows as "away"
[10:02:51] *** Kev shows as "away"
[10:04:30] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[10:04:53] *** andy shows as "online"
[10:05:55] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[10:05:57] *** Kev shows as "online"
[10:06:02] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[10:09:02] *** daniel has left the room
[10:10:46] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[10:11:07] *** daniel shows as "online"
[10:12:44] *** daniel has left the room
[10:13:22] *** blabla has left the room
[10:13:54] *** daniel shows as "online"
[10:15:05] *** blabla shows as "online"
[10:22:12] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[10:24:50] *** Lance has joined the room
[10:25:41] *** blabla has left the room
[10:27:24] *** muppeth shows as "online"
[10:27:25] *** Tim shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[10:29:37] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[10:32:24] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[10:32:47] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[10:33:53] *** alacer has left the room
[10:34:17] *** alacer has joined the room
[10:35:45] *** blabla shows as "online"
[10:36:31] *** muppeth shows as "online"
[10:36:43] *** blabla has left the room
[10:37:15] *** blabla shows as "online"
[10:37:25] *** Tim shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[10:38:38] *** daniel has left the room
[10:40:05] *** lumi has left the room
[10:40:40] *** Valerian has joined the room
[10:42:01] *** Valerian has left the room
[10:42:17] *** Valerian has joined the room
[10:42:47] *** andy has left the room
[10:45:53] *** intosi shows as "online"
[10:46:11] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[10:46:12] *** jubalh has left the room
[10:46:32] *** Kev shows as "away"
[10:47:03] *** jubalh has joined the room
[10:47:36] *** Valerian has left the room
[10:48:20] *** Valerian has joined the room
[10:48:53] *** Tim shows as "online"
[10:50:08] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[10:51:20] *** jubalh has left the room
[10:53:14] *** Valerian has left the room
[10:53:31] *** Valerian has joined the room
[10:54:01] *** jubalh has joined the room
[10:54:43] *** Kev shows as "online"
[10:55:47] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[10:56:06] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:56:08] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[11:00:31] *** Tim shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[11:01:21] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[11:04:08] *** Zash has left the room
[11:05:43] *** Valerian has left the room
[11:05:59] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[11:06:04] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[11:06:23] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:06:53] *** Valerian has joined the room
[11:10:32] *** Tim shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[11:12:21] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[11:13:21] *** Tim shows as "online"
[11:14:54] *** blabla has left the room
[11:16:23] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:17:03] *** Valerian has left the room
[11:17:32] *** Valerian has joined the room
[11:19:40] *** Valerian has left the room
[11:19:45] *** Andrew Nenakhov shows as "online"
[11:20:08] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[11:20:41] *** Valerian has joined the room
[11:22:56] *** Kev shows as "away"
[11:24:16] *** Kev shows as "online"
[11:24:49] *** Valerian has left the room
[11:25:31] *** ibikk has joined the room
[11:25:48] *** Valerian has joined the room
[11:26:05] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:26:10] *** intosi shows as "online"
[11:28:07] *** Valerian has left the room
[11:28:40] *** matlag has left the room
[11:29:25] *** Valerian has joined the room
[11:31:02] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[11:31:50] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:32:17] *** Lance has joined the room
[11:33:54] *** matlag shows as "online"
[11:34:07] *** Zash has left the room
[11:34:28] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[11:35:16] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[11:35:19] *** xnyhps has left the room
[11:35:24] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:35:48] *** daniel shows as "online"
[11:35:57] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[11:36:00] *** Guus has left the room
[11:36:00] *** Guus shows as "online"
[11:36:06] *** Guus shows as "online"
[11:36:34] *** Guus has left the room
[11:36:34] *** Guus has left the room
[11:36:41] *** Guus shows as "online"
[11:36:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[11:38:28] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[11:38:31] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[11:38:59] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[11:38:59] *** blabla shows as "online"
[11:39:02] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[11:39:16] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[11:40:42] *** Valerian has left the room
[11:41:32] *** Valerian has joined the room
[11:41:57] *** Guus has left the room
[11:41:58] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[11:43:18] *** Valerian has left the room
[11:44:18] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[11:44:19] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[11:47:10] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[11:50:00] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[11:51:10] *** rtq3 has left the room
[11:56:53] *** Lance has joined the room
[11:57:30] *** ibikk has left the room
[12:01:57] *** rion shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[12:03:07] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[12:03:08] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[12:03:44] *** jubalh has joined the room
[12:07:59] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[12:08:33] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[12:09:37] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[12:10:24] *** rion shows as "online"
[12:11:38] *** mikaela shows as "online"
[12:18:03] *** Kev shows as "away"
[12:19:46] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[12:19:50] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[12:21:57] *** Kev shows as "online"
[12:26:35] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[12:26:35] *** Tobias has left the room
[12:26:37] *** Tobias has joined the room
[12:26:38] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[12:30:35] *** alexis has left the room
[12:30:37] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[12:31:00] *** alexis has joined the room
[12:31:19] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[12:37:47] *** matlag has left the room
[12:39:34] *** alexis has joined the room
[12:40:02] *** rion has left the room
[12:42:02] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[12:43:12] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[12:50:57] *** rion shows as "online"
[12:51:12] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[12:51:13] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[12:53:01] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:57:31] *** ibikk has joined the room
[12:57:37] *** daniel has left the room
[12:57:39] *** blabla has left the room
[12:57:46] *** blabla shows as "online"
[12:58:05] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[12:59:32] *** Kev shows as "away"
[13:00:35] *** rtq3 has left the room
[13:00:50] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[13:01:49] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[13:01:52] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[13:02:46] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:03:32] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:04:01] *** Kev shows as "online"
[13:08:51] *** j.r has left the room
[13:08:54] *** j.r has joined the room
[13:12:58] *** efrit has joined the room
[13:17:33] *** Kev shows as "away"
[13:18:56] *** intosi shows as "online"
[13:19:24] *** Valerian has joined the room
[13:24:05] *** jubalh has joined the room
[13:24:31] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:25:23] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:25:45] *** Guus shows as "online"
[13:27:29] *** alexis has left the room
[13:27:58] *** alexis has joined the room
[13:28:21] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[13:29:09] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:30:33] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:30:35] *** alexis has left the room
[13:30:35] *** intosi shows as "online"
[13:31:05] *** alexis has joined the room
[13:31:25] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:32:05] *** muppeth has left the room
[13:32:25] <Guus> Board o'clock
[13:32:40] <MattJ> Hey
[13:32:44] <Guus> o/
[13:33:05] <Guus> ralphm, martin, nyco ?
[13:34:01] <ralphm> I am here, was held up
[13:34:06] *** rtq3 has left the room
[13:34:18] *** ralphm changed the title to "XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings"
[13:34:19] <Guus> yey
[13:34:24] *ralphm bangs gavel
[13:34:33] <ralphm> 1. Welcome & Agenda
[13:34:57] <ralphm> Who's here and what topics do you prefer to discuss today?
[13:35:05] <Guus> I'm here
[13:35:10] <MattJ> I'm here
[13:35:17] <MattJ> We can discuss the next steps for the results of the survey
[13:35:37] <Guus> Also: gdpr compliance?
[13:35:39] <ralphm> Cool. Maybe revisit the GDPR discussion
[13:35:55] <ralphm> That should fill most of the meeting.
[13:36:04] <Guus> also: did anyone hear from Martin in the last few weeks?
[13:36:22] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:36:32] <Guus> he didn't renew XSF membership - I wonder if that was intentional.
[13:36:51] <ralphm> Not since May 3.
[13:37:20] <MattJ> Likewise
[13:37:44] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:38:06] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:38:09] <ralphm> While there's no requirement to be a Member to be a Director, I share your curiosity.
[13:38:23] <ralphm> 2. Survey.
[13:38:48] <MattJ> The survey "officially" ended yesterday, with 24 responses
[13:39:19] <MattJ> Which I don't consider too bad, I was expecting worse
[13:39:26] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:39:40] *** alexis has joined the room
[13:39:47] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:39:54] <MattJ> I haven't had time to do anything with the responses, barely look at them. I propose I do that and share a Google Spreadsheet over email, and we can discuss in more detail next week?
[13:40:19] <MattJ> and if anyone has specific things they'd like to discuss (e.g. points raised) we can add those to the agenda
[13:40:24] <Guus> Sounds good to me.
[13:40:37] <ralphm> Agreed
[13:40:41] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[13:40:42] <ralphm> 3. GDPR
[13:40:55] <ralphm> So there a few things here and maybe we should split them.
[13:41:09] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:41:10] <ralphm> 1) the XSF's compliance
[13:41:18] <ralphm> 2) the proposed XEP
[13:41:30] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:41:53] <MattJ> Agreed, sensible
[13:42:22] <Guus> this feels like a beast: can we further split them?
[13:42:27] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[13:42:30] <ralphm> Go aheah
[13:42:40] <Guus> I would if I knew how 🙂
[13:42:46] <ralphm> Well, there are a few things on 1)
[13:42:50] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:42:59] <ralphm> - The foundation membership
[13:43:09] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:43:15] <ralphm> - The e-mail archives
[13:43:29] <ralphm> - The XMPP server with its rooms and archives
[13:43:59] <ralphm> shout if you can think up more items
[13:44:15] <Guus> that is: items where we potentially store private information?
[13:44:22] <Guus> do we use cookies on the website?
[13:44:26] <MattJ> s/private/personal/
[13:44:28] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:44:34] <ralphm> personal, indeed
[13:44:39] <Guus> Matt just asked for everyone's mail address in a nice (but one-off) poll
[13:44:46] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:44:57] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:45:04] *** Zash has left the room
[13:45:16] <MattJ> I also stated how they would be used, and that they would not be kept permanently
[13:45:22] <ralphm> We can probably continue doing all the things we do, but we have to document what we process, for what reason, etc.
[13:45:22] <Guus> ok, stepping back: I'm unsure what exactly the end-goal is (other than 'be compliant' which I don't know what that entails)
[13:45:33] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:45:43] *** Zash has left the room
[13:45:56] <ralphm> And we need to revisit/reinstate the Privacy Policy that was written in 2008
[13:46:07] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:46:09] <Guus> (we've got personal data in the wiki too, probably - and there's author information in each XEP)
[13:46:14] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:46:14] <ralphm> (for a discussion on this, see the archives of this room -1W)
[13:46:24] <ralphm> I also thought about the Wiki indeed, and the XEP
[13:46:24] *** Zash has left the room
[13:46:25] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:46:25] <ralphm> s
[13:46:32] <Guus> I was knee-deep in water at the time, have not read back 😕
[13:46:51] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:47:01] *** Zash has left the room
[13:47:10] <ralphm> Basically we had a PP for both jabber.org and xmpp.org, but with all the website transitions it is no longer available
[13:47:23] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:47:25] <ralphm> we have it somewhere still, though
[13:47:33] *** Zash has left the room
[13:47:45] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:47:50] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:47:56] *** Zash has left the room
[13:48:01] <Guus> okay, say we are able to restore that: is there someone available that can tell if it is GDPR compliant?
[13:48:07] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:48:10] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:48:20] *** Zash has left the room
[13:48:36] *** alexis has joined the room
[13:48:41] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:48:47] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[13:48:51] *** Zash has left the room
[13:49:02] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[13:49:04] <ralphm> First of all, no-one probably is 100% compliant, and you will know when somebody has sued you
[13:49:07] <MattJ> Nobody can really say for certain, there are too many grey areas - however I'm really not worried
[13:49:28] *** efrit has joined the room
[13:49:29] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:49:38] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:49:39] <MattJ> Pretty much all we have is public, and given by people knowingly
[13:49:46] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:49:48] *** Zash has left the room
[13:50:05] <ralphm> The focus points will be documentation, the pp, and possibly retention, and information and deletion requests.
[13:50:08] <MattJ> There may be hidden things like server logs, but if we don't keep those for "too long", we "should" be ok
[13:50:10] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:50:10] <Guus> sure, and although I assume that that's ok, that's not based on any knowledge of gdpr on my part.
[13:50:16] *** flow has left the room
[13:50:18] *** flow has joined the room
[13:50:47] <ralphm> Well, I've been involved professionally, so I know a few things
[13:50:51] *** alexis has left the room
[13:51:01] <Guus> good. Tag, you're it. 🙂
[13:51:06] *** alexis has joined the room
[13:51:07] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:51:11] <ralphm> I think we should also involve Alex
[13:51:16] <ralphm> haha, good one
[13:51:28] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:51:30] <ralphm> Sounds like MattJ knows things, too
[13:51:38] *** jubalh has joined the room
[13:52:03] <Guus> maybe we should task a certain group of people with doing an inventory of our data, and make recommendations?
[13:52:25] <MattJ> iteam?
[13:52:50] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:53:07] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:53:10] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[13:53:14] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[13:53:19] <Guus> or an adhoc one (Ralph, Alex, the people that have bene working on the XEP)
[13:54:29] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:54:46] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:55:22] <Guus> I'd be happy to do leg-work, but I need someone to tell me what to do.
[13:56:09] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:56:26] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:56:28] <MattJ> Well in the case I gave (server logs), that's something that requires iteam - an inventory of running services and what they collect
[13:57:47] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:58:05] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:58:10] <Guus> RIght - that's why I suggest to have a SIG or WT with people like yourself that know what to look for. A small group of people that maintains an overview, and coordinates efforts with other WTs and board.
[13:58:50] <ralphm> I think a work team
[13:59:25] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:59:35] <Guus> This all might be me being overcautious, based on a lack of understanding - if you see a way to shorttrack things, that's also fine by me.
[13:59:41] <ralphm> so indeed, you need iteam for inventory, someone the leads the effort, and in any case the Secretary should be involved
[13:59:43] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:00:18] <ralphm> There are probably helpful 10-step plans out there, but I haven't looked at that at all
[14:00:20] *** rion shows as "online"
[14:00:29] <Guus> I'm unsure if we can volunteer the Secretary for a WT, but we can at least ask the WT to inform the Secretary. 🙂
[14:01:03] <Guus> Ralph, would you mind spearheading that team?
[14:01:04] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[14:01:11] <Guus> you seem to have a good grasp on tings.
[14:01:15] <Guus> things*
[14:01:21] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:02:15] <ralphm> On the involvement of the Secretary, probably yes we can volunteer him:
[14:02:17] <ralphm> Section 6.7 Secretary. Unless provided otherwise by a resolution adopted by the Board of Directors, the Secretary shall keep accurate records of the acts and proceedings of all meetings of the Members and Directors. The Secretary shall give all notices required by law and by these Bylaws. He or she shall mail to all Directors within thirty (30) days after each meeting copies of all said actions and minutes of said proceedings. In addition, the Secretary shall have general charge of the corporate books and records and of the corporate seal, and he or she shall affix, or attest the affixing of, the corporate seal to any lawfully executed instrument requiring it. The Secretary shall have general charge of the membership records of the Corporation and shall keep, at the principal office of the Corporation, a record of the Members showing the name, address, telephone number, facsimile number and electronic mail address of each Member. The Secretary shall sign such instruments as may require his or her signature and, in general, shall perform all duties as may be assigned to him or her from time to time by the Chair, the Executive Director or the Board of Directors.
[14:02:36] <ralphm> Note the part on 'corporate books and records'
[14:02:37] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[14:02:49] <Guus> Let's aim to have a mission statement / member list ready for next week, so that we can procedurally establish the team.
[14:02:54] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:03:16] <ralphm> But of course we should ask Alex how he can help us on this
[14:03:29] <ralphm> seems reasonable
[14:03:55] <ralphm> Ok then, I guess we should move on to the other part
[14:04:05] <ralphm> 4. GDPR XEP
[14:04:19] <Guus> (I don't have much more time to spend today)
[14:05:09] <ralphm> Oh, it is that time already.
[14:06:00] <Guus> as for the XEP: what are downsides of publishing such a XEP?
[14:06:01] <ralphm> Well, in principle it is unclear if the XSF should publish a specification that would give guidelines in direct relation to the GDPR
[14:06:22] <ralphm> I'm not familiar with US law, but the concept of Legal Advise is a apparently a Thing
[14:06:32] <ralphm> Advice even
[14:07:37] <Guus> what is "giving legal advice" ? Does publishing that XEP qualify?
[14:07:54] <ralphm> Well, in the state that it was in last week, there wasn't much in there yet
[14:08:00] <ralphm> I haven't checked since
[14:09:11] <MattJ> It's a combination of factors - for example, in some places you need to be licensed to practice law
[14:09:20] <ralphm> But I think it is more important for any such document to provide general guidelines in terms of knowing what you process and what things to take into account to ensure privacy for your service, and leave the rest up to people who Know Things (typically lawyers) for actual compliance
[14:09:40] <MattJ> It's a stretch, but if it was taken as the XSF is giving legal advice without being qualified to do so, that's illegal in those $some_places
[14:10:17] *** muppeth has joined the room
[14:10:39] <Guus> My perspective is that I'd prefer to help the XMPP community by providing information, as long as a) we're not opening ourselves up to liability, and b) we can somehow be reasonably certain that we're not spreading misinformation.
[14:11:02] <MattJ> and separate from this issue, but similar - someone could try to blame the XSF if they followed published advice but got fined under GDPR
[14:11:03] <Guus> There's a huge gap between practice law and give information
[14:11:09] *** efrit has left the room
[14:11:21] <ralphm> Right, so as Peter has suggested, and I agree with, I'd like any such document to be actual best practices, not related to any particular legislation
[14:11:45] <Guus> that's reasonable
[14:11:45] <MattJ> Me too
[14:12:21] <Guus> ok, I need to be going now
[14:12:25] <Guus> can we pick this up next week?
[14:12:28] <ralphm> Sure
[14:12:33] <ralphm> 4. Date of Next
[14:12:34] <ralphm> +1W
[14:12:37] <ralphm> 5. Close
[14:12:38] <ralphm> Thanks all.
[14:12:41] *ralphm bangs gavel
[14:12:42] <MattJ> Thanks
[14:12:49] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[14:12:56] *** Zash shows as "online"
[14:12:57] *** ralphm changed the title to "XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings"
[14:13:00] <Guus> woah, I alt-tabbed for two seconds 🙂
[14:13:06] <Guus> thank you 🙂
[14:13:12] <ralphm>
[14:13:57] <ralphm> Also, I'm sure I used 4 two times, so whoever is making the Minutes (*wink*) should take that into account
[14:14:53] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[14:17:00] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[14:17:51] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:19:35] *** Guus has left the room
[14:19:35] *** Guus shows as "online"
[14:19:36] *** Guus shows as "online"
[14:19:44] *** Zash has left the room
[14:20:01] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[14:20:16] *** Guus has left the room
[14:20:16] *** Guus has left the room
[14:20:22] *** Guus shows as "online"
[14:20:27] *** Guus shows as "online"
[14:21:07] *** rion shows as "online"
[14:23:47] *** alexis has left the room
[14:24:17] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:24:26] *** alexis has joined the room
[14:25:23] *** Guus has left the room
[14:25:39] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[14:25:59] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:27:20] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[14:27:37] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:28:58] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[14:29:03] *** lumi has joined the room
[14:29:17] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:30:38] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[14:30:55] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:31:10] *** muppeth has left the room
[14:31:16] *** muppeth has joined the room
[14:32:06] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[14:32:16] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[14:32:31] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:33:54] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[14:34:12] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:34:25] *** rtq3 has left the room
[14:34:35] *** blabla has left the room
[14:34:35] *** blabla has left the room
[14:34:52] *** blabla has joined the room
[14:35:13] *** blabla shows as "online"
[14:35:33] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[14:35:52] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:36:08] *** mikaela has left the room
[14:36:13] *** muppeth has left the room
[14:37:13] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[14:37:34] *** daniel shows as "online"
[14:37:36] *** muppeth has joined the room
[14:37:42] *** ibikk has joined the room
[14:38:33] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[14:38:47] *** mikaela has joined the room
[14:41:17] *** muppeth has joined the room
[14:42:56] *** muppeth shows as "online"
[14:43:10] *** alexis has left the room
[14:43:39] *** alexis has joined the room
[14:44:17] *** andy has joined the room
[14:44:57] *** efrit has joined the room
[14:46:14] *** jubalh has joined the room
[14:52:07] *** rion shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[14:52:18] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:54:12] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[14:54:14] *** lumi shows as "online"
[14:55:35] *** Valerian has left the room
[14:55:35] *** Valerian has joined the room
[14:56:32] *** rion shows as "online"
[14:58:56] *** Valerian has left the room
[14:58:56] *** Valerian has joined the room
[15:01:29] *** daniel has left the room
[15:03:57] *** ibikk has left the room
[15:06:57] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[15:07:03] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[15:07:41] *** muppeth shows as "online"
[15:08:02] *** muppeth has left the room
[15:08:34] *** muppeth shows as "online"
[15:09:31] *** j.r has joined the room
[15:11:49] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[15:12:00] *** Guus has left the room
[15:12:01] *** Guus shows as "online"
[15:12:02] *** Guus shows as "online"
[15:13:12] *** Zash shows as "online"
[15:15:47] <goffi> would not it be possible for the XSF to hire some legal advisor to create a document? I mean this is expensive for a single project, but if XSF is hiring one describing general helping document, we could do some kind of crowdfunding among XMPP community. Maybe FSF have some helpful contacts
[15:16:24] *** intosi shows as "online"
[15:17:04] *** Guus has left the room
[15:18:25] *** jubalh has joined the room
[15:18:26] *** Kev shows as "online"
[15:18:31] *** Neustradamus shows as "away"
[15:18:57] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[15:19:20] *** jere has joined the room
[15:19:27] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[15:19:32] *** Zash has left the room
[15:20:17] *** Zash shows as "online"
[15:24:51] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:24:52] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[15:26:33] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:27:00] *** rion shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[15:30:51] *** rtq3 has left the room
[15:33:43] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[15:34:12] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[15:34:20] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[15:34:54] *** Zash has left the room
[15:37:47] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[15:38:04] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:39:52] <flow> I'm pretty sure I've asked years ago on standards@ if an IQ send to the own bare JID is semantically equivalent to the same stanza without a 'to' attribute, but my google-fu is not strong enough to find that thread again
[15:40:45] <Kev> The answer is "yes". Also "no".
[15:41:20] <Kev> It is the same, except that there's some odd text still lying around that hints otherwise, like that roster queries must be no-JID (rather than bare-JID), maybe?
[15:41:24] <flow> I feared that this was the conclusion back then
[15:41:59] <Zash> Can we have that odd text accidentally dropped down a well?
[15:42:01] <flow> would a MAM IQ to the own bare JID be equal to the same query without to attribute?
[15:42:21] <Kev> flow: Yes.
[15:42:21] <flow> *without 'to' attribute
[15:42:29] <MattJ> As far as I'm concerned, and Prosody is concerned, yes
[15:42:30] <Zash> Prosody treats to=own bare jid identical to missing to
[15:42:51] <daniel> Can we just get rid of missing to and missing froms
[15:42:52] <Zash> In fact, it removes the 'to' and uses its absense for security related things
[15:42:53] *** blabla has left the room
[15:43:16] <Zash> daniel: make them mandatory always, like on s2s?
[15:43:30] <flow> Zash, interesting, care to elaborate on these "security related things" that you get when you handle stanzas without 'to'?
[15:43:33] <MattJ> daniel, in a way I prefer it, you know this stanza isn't going anywhere
[15:43:45] <daniel> Zash: yes. If you want to send something to your account you have to address it
[15:43:48] <daniel> And vice versa
[15:45:15] *** andy shows as "away"
[15:45:16] *** ibikk has joined the room
[15:45:19] <MattJ> flow, these stanzas are typically special in most XEPs (from user to their own account), they are privileged and Prosody handles them separately from normal stanzas that are to be routed
[15:45:22] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[15:45:23] *** waqas has joined the room
[15:45:31] *** j.r has joined the room
[15:45:34] <Zash> daniel: I want the opposite
[15:45:42] *** andy shows as "online"
[15:45:58] <MattJ> and we normalize the to/from to 'missing to' so that there can't be any JID normalization accidents in modules
[15:46:21] <Zash> And then it bites Ge0rG right in the carbons
[15:46:29] <daniel> MattJ: but if you address your server the stanza isn't going anywhere either...
[15:46:47] <daniel> For some definition of not going anywhere
[15:46:51] <Kev> MattJ: Do you do some sort of NAT to get the right address injected when you reply then?
[15:47:02] <Kev> Because replying to a to=bare stanza with missing to isn't ok.
[15:47:06] <MattJ> Kev, 'from' is always set, and that's what we reply to
[15:47:17] <MattJ> and 'to' is not needed on c2s streams
[15:47:17] <Kev> Because replying to a to=bare stanza with missing from isn't ok.
[15:47:46] <Zash> to and from should default to the entities on each end of c2s streams, ie the client and their account
[15:47:46] <MattJ> Obviously from and to are swapped in any reply
[15:49:23] <Kev> One has to be fairly careful when claiming anything is obvious, when talking about this ;)
[15:50:22] *** mikaela shows as "online"
[15:52:13] *** andy shows as "away"
[15:52:31] *** Guus has left the room
[15:52:31] *** Guus has left the room
[15:52:51] *** Guus shows as "online"
[15:53:25] *** Guus shows as "online"
[15:53:55] *** andy shows as "online"
[15:54:32] <jonasw> Kev, why is it not ok? missing from is identical to comes from bare jid, isn’t it?
[15:55:01] <Zash> client sending <message> == <message from=ownfulljid to=ownbare>
[15:56:28] <jonasw> (missing from when server sends)
[15:56:48] <jonasw> oh okay, MUST include the from attribute
[15:56:59] <jonasw> I am /pretty/ sure that I’ve seen servers which do not do that.
[15:57:03] <jonasw> I have ugly workarounds for that
[15:57:23] <jonasw> ah, no I am at the wrong place in the text
[15:57:25] <Zash> Whowhere?
[15:57:27] <jonasw>
3. When the server generates a stanza from the server for delivery
to the client on behalf of the account of the connected client
(e.g., in the context of data storage services provided by the
server on behalf of the client), the stanza MUST either (a) not
include a 'from' attribute or (b) include a 'from' attribute
whose value is the account's bare JID (<localpart@domainpart>).
[15:57:37] <jonasw> Kev, so, there’s no NAT needed, just don’t emit the @from in the reply ^
[15:58:15] *** Guus has left the room
[15:58:36] <daniel> Zash: hoover?
[15:58:44] *** tux shows as "online"
[15:59:02] <Kev> jonasw: Yes, but if it's a reply to a stanza the client sent, the server must swap the to/from.
[15:59:13] <Zash> 🕴
[15:59:16] <Kev> You can't, as a server, receive a stanza that is to=bare JID, and reply with no from.
[15:59:42] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:00:07] <MattJ> Kev, says?
[16:00:32] <Zash> The holy text.
[16:00:41] *** Alex has joined the room
[16:01:37] <Kev> MattJ: 6120, somewhere.
[16:02:24] <Kev> e.g. for error stanzas "The error stanza SHOULD simply swap the 'from' and 'to' addresses from the generated stanza"
[16:04:04] <MattJ> That's a stretch to say it applies to all stanzas, as you're saying
[16:04:31] <Kev> Yes, that was just the quickest thing to find.
[16:05:32] <MattJ> I think the text jonasw pasted is pretty clear that the server has two valid options
[16:05:50] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:05:52] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:06:07] <Kev> Yes, but not clear that both are always right.
[16:08:39] <MattJ> Then that text might as well be removed, and let the text you remember specify what the 'from' should be
[16:09:22] *** lumi has left the room
[16:12:44] <jonasw> Kev, ok, then I found a server with a bug.
[16:12:47] *** Guus has left the room
[16:12:47] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:12:52] <jonasw> because that’s why I needed workarounds (because servers did exactly that)
[16:13:05] <jonasw> ah, well
[16:13:12] <jonasw> if the swap is only a SHOULD, I can see this to be an exception
[16:13:22] *** Guus has left the room
[16:13:30] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:13:38] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:13:55] <Kev> I can't find the odd text about rosters now on a quick search either, so there's clearly text I'm failing to find.
[16:15:08] *** andy shows as "away"
[16:17:42] *** Guus has left the room
[16:17:42] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:17:42] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:17:54] *** Guus has left the room
[16:18:50] *** lnj has joined the room
[16:19:24] <Kev> jonasw: We have handling too, in https://github.com/swift/swift/blob/master/Swiften/Queries/Request.cpp#L79
[16:19:38] <Kev> (In fact, we have further workarounds for ejabberd issues where they used to reply with full JIDs)
[16:19:57] <jonasw> oh yes
[16:19:59] <jonasw> I love those
[16:20:08] *** andy shows as "xa"
[16:21:40] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[16:21:55] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[16:22:28] *** Wiktor has joined the room
[16:22:48] *** Guus has left the room
[16:26:11] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[16:26:13] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:27:11] *** goffi has left the room
[16:27:54] *** valo has joined the room
[16:28:10] *** jubalh has joined the room
[16:29:06] *** alacer has left the room
[16:29:08] *** alacer has joined the room
[16:30:15] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:30:16] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:30:49] *** muppeth has joined the room
[16:31:51] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[16:33:20] *** Neustradamus has left the room
[16:33:56] *** andy shows as "online"
[16:34:12] *** j.r has joined the room
[16:35:23] *** koyu has joined the room
[16:35:24] *** koyu has left the room
[16:35:53] *** Alex has left the room
[16:37:32] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[16:37:46] *** jere has left the room
[16:37:52] *** jere has joined the room
[16:38:47] *** alexis has left the room
[16:39:21] *** Alex has joined the room
[16:39:41] *** alexis has joined the room
[16:39:54] *** Alex shows as "online"
[16:40:05] *** alexis has left the room
[16:40:35] *** alexis has joined the room
[16:40:44] *** koyu has joined the room
[16:40:52] *** koyu has joined the room
[16:41:01] <koyu> hey, i just setup my own xmpp server
[16:41:24] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[16:41:26] <Kev> Welcome to the cool club. Or something.
[16:41:43] <MattJ> :)
[16:42:04] <koyu> yeah, i just can't get omemo to work on ejabberd
[16:42:52] <Wiktor> As far as I remember omemo is disabled by default in ejabberd, but you may check in ejabberd room
[16:43:12] <Wiktor> xmpp:ejabberd@conference.process-one.net?join
[16:43:12] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[16:43:21] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[16:46:28] *** alexis has joined the room
[16:47:12] *** Neustradamus has joined the room
[16:48:20] *** muppeth has left the room
[16:48:21] *** muppeth has joined the room
[16:48:28] *** lumi has joined the room
[16:48:43] *** waqas has left the room
[16:48:51] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:48:54] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:48:54] *** koyu has joined the room
[16:50:18] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:50:18] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:50:53] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[16:51:22] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[16:51:23] *** koyu shows as "online"
[16:51:24] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[16:51:30] *** koyu has left the room
[16:51:31] *** koyu has joined the room
[16:51:40] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:51:41] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:52:24] *** alexis has left the room
[16:53:29] *** alexis has joined the room
[16:55:02] *** alexis has joined the room
[16:56:34] *** Neustradamus shows as "away"
[16:58:50] *** alexis has left the room
[16:59:18] *** alexis has joined the room
[17:00:24] *** koyu has left the room
[17:00:26] *** koyu has joined the room
[17:00:51] *** alexis has left the room
[17:01:39] *** alexis has joined the room
[17:02:21] *** Chobbes shows as "online"
[17:02:27] *** waqas has joined the room
[17:02:39] *** j.r has joined the room
[17:04:39] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[17:04:39] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[17:07:08] <jonasw> Ge0rG, chat.yax.im down?
[17:10:40] *** Kev shows as "away"
[17:11:31] *** tux has joined the room
[17:13:21] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:13:22] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[17:15:30] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[17:15:33] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[17:15:59] *** Guus has left the room
[17:16:01] *** Guus shows as "online"
[17:16:42] *** Guus has left the room
[17:17:09] *** Guus shows as "online"
[17:17:40] *** Valerian has left the room
[17:17:42] *** Valerian has joined the room
[17:18:29] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:18:39] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[17:18:42] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[17:19:33] *** efrit has left the room
[17:19:40] *** efrit has joined the room
[17:19:54] *** jere has left the room
[17:20:03] *** jere has joined the room
[17:21:17] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[17:25:41] <Ge0rG> jonasw: works for me
[17:25:57] <jonasw> yeah, it just had a few minutes of hangup
[17:26:06] <jonasw> 17:04:14 <--- You (jonasw) left the room (the MUC server is not responding)
17:07:17 ---> You (jonasw) joined the room
[17:26:14] <jonasw> (or maybe it was just the link between us. who knows)
[17:28:03] *** Valerian has left the room
[17:28:03] *** Valerian has joined the room
[17:29:01] *** Lance has joined the room
[17:32:24] *** jubalh has joined the room
[17:33:45] *** Kev shows as "online"
[17:34:53] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[17:35:04] *** andy shows as "away"
[17:35:41] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[17:35:45] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[17:37:18] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[17:37:43] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[17:38:56] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[17:40:03] *** andy shows as "xa"
[17:42:11] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[17:45:18] *** Kev shows as "away"
[17:49:27] *** rtq3 has left the room
[17:50:08] *** jjrh has left the room
[17:50:08] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[17:50:52] *** koyu has left the room
[17:51:41] *** jjrh has left the room
[17:51:42] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[17:52:03] *** jjrh has left the room
[17:52:04] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[17:52:48] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[17:54:31] *** jubalh has left the room
[17:55:06] *** jjrh has left the room
[17:55:21] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[17:55:28] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[17:55:34] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[17:55:36] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[17:55:44] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[17:55:52] *** jjrh has left the room
[17:55:54] *** lskdjf has left the room
[17:55:54] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[17:55:54] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[17:57:59] *** andy shows as "online"
[18:01:38] *** ibikk has joined the room
[18:01:56] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[18:02:00] *** Alex shows as "online"
[18:03:37] *** SamWhited has left the room
[18:03:53] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[18:05:23] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[18:06:04] *** andy shows as "away"
[18:08:08] *** andy shows as "online"
[18:11:14] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[18:11:19] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[18:11:24] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[18:12:00] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[18:13:39] *** Guus has left the room
[18:13:39] *** Guus has left the room
[18:13:53] *** Guus shows as "online"
[18:13:53] *** Guus shows as "online"
[18:14:59] *** Tobias has joined the room
[18:15:09] *** waqas shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:15:14] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:16:19] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[18:16:43] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:16:44] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:16:46] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[18:17:14] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[18:17:31] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:18:46] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[18:20:16] *** mikeao has left the room
[18:23:11] *** jere has left the room
[18:24:44] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[18:26:31] *** Lance has joined the room
[18:26:40] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[18:27:34] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[18:28:12] *** ta has left the room
[18:28:15] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[18:28:17] *** ta has joined the room
[18:28:37] *** andy has left the room
[18:31:11] *** jere has joined the room
[18:32:00] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[18:32:59] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:35:58] *** rion shows as "online"
[18:45:45] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[18:46:06] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[18:46:34] *** andy has joined the room
[18:46:58] *** j.r has joined the room
[18:47:05] *** Guus has left the room
[18:47:35] *** ta has joined the room
[18:48:23] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[18:51:19] *** Valerian has left the room
[18:51:20] *** Valerian has joined the room
[18:51:57] *** UsL has joined the room
[18:52:08] *** UsL shows as "online" and his status message is "here"
[18:53:24] *** mikaela has joined the room
[18:54:21] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:54:22] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[18:54:50] *** Valerian has left the room
[18:54:50] *** Valerian has joined the room
[18:54:54] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[18:55:23] *** rtq3 has left the room
[18:55:25] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:55:31] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[18:55:54] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[18:56:19] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[18:58:06] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[18:59:46] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:03:42] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[19:03:53] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[19:06:03] *** rion shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[19:06:04] *** Alex has left the room
[19:10:13] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[19:11:54] *** andy has left the room
[19:13:07] *** rion shows as "online"
[19:14:32] *** Valerian has left the room
[19:14:44] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:15:25] *** UsL shows as "away" and his status message is "here (afk at least 6 minutes by now)"
[19:15:38] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:16:00] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:16:01] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[19:18:21] *** Zash has left the room
[19:21:29] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:23:24] *** UsL shows as "xa" and his status message is " (ded at least 14 minutes by now)"
[19:26:33] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[19:27:26] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:28:52] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:28:58] *** Wiktor shows as "online"
[19:29:13] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:30:33] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:30:52] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:31:16] *** jubalh has joined the room
[19:31:56] *** rtq3 has left the room
[19:32:11] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:32:30] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:33:50] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:34:08] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:35:29] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:35:47] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:37:07] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:38:42] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:40:04] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:40:22] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:41:42] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:41:59] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:43:04] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[19:43:20] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:43:38] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:44:59] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:45:17] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:46:37] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:46:55] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:47:25] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[19:47:46] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:48:08] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:48:43] *** Tobias has left the room
[19:48:44] *** Tobias has joined the room
[19:51:41] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[19:53:03] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:53:04] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[19:53:39] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:53:44] *** jjrh has left the room
[19:53:44] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[19:54:08] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[19:55:31] *** jubalh has left the room
[19:56:37] *** j.r has joined the room
[19:59:35] <MattJ> So MIX proxy JIDs... if someone creates a MIX channel that is <1023 bytes>@mix.example.com... what happens to the userid part?
[19:59:45] <jonasw> "boom"
[20:00:00] <jonasw> I imagine servers simply wouldn’t allow that
[20:00:10] <MattJ> So how long is the generated id?
[20:00:18] <jonasw> probably service-defined
[20:00:32] <MattJ> It's such a hack
[20:00:39] <jonasw> do you have a better suggestion?
[20:01:33] <MattJ> Well instead of overloading what should be an opaque identifier why not re-use a mechanism that is already in the protocol as a secondary identifier behind bare JIDs?
[20:02:18] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[20:02:30] <jonasw> because that leads to the same situation
[20:02:37] <jonasw> just in a different part and with different moving parts
[20:03:13] <jonasw> with Kevs variant (1), the multiple pieces are in the nodepart, with variant (2) the multiple pieces are in the resource
[20:03:21] <jonasw> so both are bad w.r.t. that
[20:04:39] <jonasw> one way out of that would be to use $service-wide-user-id@$service-domain/$resource instead (so the MIX identifier wouldn’t be part of the node at all). but that requires to have the JID of the MIX inside the relevant stanzas
[20:05:58] <MattJ> All existing routing, libraries and... everything already knows how to correctly split a JID
[20:06:38] <jonasw> true
[20:06:56] <jonasw> and I think that the semantics assumed with "bare JID" work better with variant (1) than with variant (2)
[20:07:05] *** SamWhited has left the room
[20:07:10] <MattJ> Trust me, someone will want to implement some higher-level logic to know which messages are associated with a MIX channel
[20:07:11] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[20:07:23] <MattJ> Except with variant (1) you can't really do that
[20:07:48] <MattJ> You have to know it *is* a MIX channel, and that you have to strip the bit before the #
[20:08:20] <MattJ> Block a MIX channel? Ok, but messages from participants would still reach you
[20:08:22] <jonasw> and other people want to have high-level logic to konw which messages are associated with a MIX channel occupant.
[20:08:39] *** ibikk has joined the room
[20:09:02] <MattJ> any kind of filtering or logic based on the channel JID now almost always will need to be adapted to look for the # part
[20:09:31] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[20:09:40] <jonasw> we should’ve followed email and allowed multiple @s in addresses
[20:10:00] <MattJ> Yes, that would really have helped... :)
[20:10:02] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[20:10:31] <MattJ> so now nobody knows what an email address actually is, but everyone has their own idea that's good enough for them
[20:10:45] <MattJ> Pretty much what's going on here, to be honest :)
[20:11:04] <MattJ> The # is the extra @ to the entities that can see it
[20:11:15] <MattJ> To the others, it's not and it's weird
[20:11:20] <jonasw> the variant (2) would make things worse than MUC actually
[20:11:40] <MattJ> Can you (or someone) lay down the reasons for that?
[20:11:45] <jonasw> didn’t I?
[20:11:53] *** jjrh has left the room
[20:11:54] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[20:11:58] <MattJ> I didn't see if you did, /me checks
[20:12:15] <jonasw> but the point which I just realized is, that with variant (2), there’s no single JID which will ever occur in a message identifies an occupant
[20:12:32] <jonasw> so if you wanted to filter all messages from an occupant, you’d have to know that they’re MIX messages
[20:12:37] <jonasw> to split them correctly
[20:12:48] <jonasw> kinda the same issue you describe with MIX channels in variant (1)
[20:13:01] <MattJ> Hmm, what do you mean?
[20:13:11] <jonasw> for example, presence
[20:13:16] <jonasw> and avatar hashes
[20:13:29] <jonasw> I keep those in a cache, usually keyed by the bare JID
[20:13:42] <jonasw> which I can’t do for MUC, I have to use the full JID, but that’s okay
[20:13:56] <jonasw> (I actually have to break layers to detect that a presence is MUC related at that point)
[20:14:25] <jonasw> now with MIX, it’s worse, because not only do I have to check that it’s MIX-related, I also have to use a non-RFC6122 splitting function on the JID to determine the cache key
[20:14:35] <jonasw> i.e. do determine the identity this JID belongs to
[20:14:52] <jonasw> really, the same thing you described earlier, just with occupants instead of channels
[20:15:46] <MattJ> Right
[20:16:04] <jonasw> I think your issue is more server-side and my issue is more client-side, actually, and that might be why we see them strongly each
[20:16:33] <jonasw> (clients may be more interested in occupant identities, while servers may be more interested in channel identities because that’s the granularity they work on)
[20:16:48] <MattJ> So how do you know it's a MIX message and you need to split the nodepart? Payload?
[20:16:56] <jonasw> yes
[20:18:54] *** mikaela has left the room
[20:19:09] <jonasw> Strawman proposal:
- proxy JID does not contain the MIX channel, but only the proxy identifier in the nodepart
- resource as usual
- MIX channel is identified in payload, e.g. <message from="ac2c37a7-10a6-4cd7-a708-4973d5d365f8@mixservice.domain.example" to="user@other.example" type="groupchat"><mix channel="..."/></message>
[20:19:28] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:19:29] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[20:20:17] <jonasw> Strawman proposal:
- proxy JID does not contain the MIX channel, but only the proxy identifier in the nodepart
- resource as usual
- MIX channel is identified in payload, e.g. <message from="ac2c37a7-10a6-4cd7-a708-4973d5d365f8@mixservice.domain.example/client-resource" to="user@other.example" type="groupchat"><mix channel="..."/></message>
[20:20:38] <MattJ> Heh, part of me wants to dislike that, but I prefer it
[20:21:00] <MattJ> I feel like the security aspects need to be investigated here though
[20:21:05] <jonasw> that’s not how straw-mans are supposed to work
[20:21:18] <jonasw> which part exactly?
[20:21:46] <MattJ> Well you need to verify the service in every case, I think
[20:22:00] <jonasw> what do you mean exactly?
[20:22:04] <MattJ> Otherwise I register mattj#rocks@jabber.org and send you a message wih a MIX payload
[20:22:32] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[20:22:33] <jonasw> and then?
[20:22:37] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[20:22:54] <MattJ> Don't know, currently I got as far as "your client breaks"
[20:23:04] *** Neustradamus shows as "away"
[20:23:23] <jonasw> the client or server would drop it because it doesn’t know about a MIX rocks@jabber.org
[20:23:37] <jonasw> just like we currently drop type="groupchat" from MUCs we don’t know.
[20:24:35] <MattJ> Right, the whole "participant's server needs to know MIX" thing
[20:24:39] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[20:25:08] <jonasw> at least we’re honest about it this time (not with MUC, where servers were blindsided by interesting interaction sideeffects e.g. when changing nicknames)
[20:25:17] <jonasw> at least we’re honest about it this time (not like with MUC, where servers were blindsided by interesting interaction sideeffects e.g. when changing nicknames)
[20:25:43] <MattJ> I like your straw-man because it opens up the possibility for a user on a MIX service to have a stable JID across multiple channels
[20:25:55] *** Guus has left the room
[20:25:56] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:25:57] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:26:03] <jonasw> I’m not sure that’s a good thing
[20:26:16] <jonasw> but mmm, it could be
[20:26:35] <jonasw> it makes it more difficult for MIX services though
[20:26:35] *** Guus has left the room
[20:26:36] *** Guus has left the room
[20:26:38] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:26:40] <MattJ> How so?
[20:26:50] <jonasw> when I send a message to ac2c37a7-10a6-4cd7-a708-4973d5d365f8@mixservice.domain.example, they need to verify that I share a channel with them
[20:26:52] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:27:11] <jonasw> (or may need to, depending on the service policies; but I assume that this is how most services will want to operate)
[20:27:34] <jonasw> hm, or we require <mix channel="…"/> elements even in non-groupchat messages
[20:27:53] <jonasw> then the sender would assert through which channel this message shall be "tunneled" and the server would not have to form the intersection of both channel lists
[20:27:56] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[20:28:06] <jonasw> question is whether that’s reasonable
[20:28:20] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[20:29:00] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[20:29:02] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[20:29:16] <MattJ> Totally if you ask me
[20:29:25] <jonasw> so I’ll post that to the list now
[20:29:39] <MattJ> Variant 3! Thanks :)
[20:31:43] *** MattJ has left the room
[20:31:44] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[20:31:52] *** Guus has left the room
[20:32:47] *** alacer has left the room
[20:33:23] *** jere has joined the room
[20:35:53] *** Tobias has left the room
[20:35:54] *** Tobias has joined the room
[20:36:48] <jonasw> Advantages:

- No re-write of resources
- Bare JID refers to occupant identity (good for clients)
- Servers can simply filter on message/mix@channel
- Opens up the possibility of re-using the same proxy JID for the same occupant across different channels (may be useful in some deployments, via MattJ)

Disadvantages:

- All (including 1:1) stanzas exchanged between occupants require the <mix channel="…"/> element for MIX channels to be able to easily route them
- Entities filtering on MIX channel identity still need to know about MIX (and the <mix channel="…"/> element)
[20:36:51] <jonasw> did I miss something?
[20:38:17] *** muppeth shows as "online"
[20:38:20] *** rtq3 has left the room
[20:38:45] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[20:39:43] *** Chobbes shows as "online"
[20:41:00] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[20:41:41] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[20:42:03] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[20:43:43] <jonasw> sent
[20:44:57] <MattJ> Sorry, lgtm
[20:45:03] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[20:46:35] *** MattJ has left the room
[20:46:35] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[20:50:00] *** Lance has joined the room
[20:51:29] *** peter has joined the room
[20:55:00] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:55:08] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[20:56:03] *** Kev shows as "online"
[20:59:54] *** efrit has left the room
[21:00:01] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[21:00:01] *** efrit has joined the room
[21:00:39] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[21:00:46] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[21:00:48] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[21:01:42] <Kev> I'll reply properly onlist in the morning, but now you need to do DPI to be able to routing in your client, because the routing information is no longer in the header? That's terribly unpleasant.
[21:01:51] <Kev> I'll reply properly onlist in the morning, but now you need to do DPI to be able to do routing in your client, because the routing information is no longer in the header? That's terribly unpleasant.
[21:02:04] <Kev> i.e. I think option 3 is the worst of the three.
[21:02:43] <Kev> (And possibly worse, your server needs to be doing DPI in order to make archiving work)
[21:02:46] <jonasw> Kev, don’t you need to do DPI anyways because you need to be sure you’re looking at a MIX message?
[21:03:08] <jonasw> (otherwise, the "MIX JID splitting function" (whatever that is) would operate on non MIX JIDs and possibly yield wrong results)
[21:03:16] <Kev> No, you don't :)
[21:03:16] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[21:03:24] <jonasw> servers need to do DPI anyways today for archiving to work.
[21:03:32] <Kev> Not at this level.
[21:03:36] *** MattJ has left the room
[21:03:37] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:03:37] <jonasw> normally, type="groupchat" isn’t archived at all, right?
[21:03:48] <Kev> That obviously has to change.
[21:03:54] <jonasw> for MIX, yes
[21:04:07] <Kev> type=groupchat to the bare JID gets archived.
[21:04:16] <Kev> (Once routing/archiving rules are fixed)
[21:04:19] <jonasw> right
[21:04:20] <jonasw> that would work
[21:04:46] <Kev> I have to sort out bins and then go to bed, but I think option 3 has worse issues than the conflation in option 1/2.
[21:04:56] <jonasw> looking forward to your reply
[21:05:00] <jonasw> and the discussion :)
[21:05:09] *** Valerian has joined the room
[21:05:41] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[21:05:47] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[21:05:50] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[21:06:55] *** rion has left the room
[21:07:02] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:07:16] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:07:27] *** peter shows as "online"
[21:07:55] *** Valerian has left the room
[21:07:56] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:08:06] *** Valerian has joined the room
[21:09:11] *** Valerian has left the room
[21:09:12] *** Holger shows as "online"
[21:09:13] *** Valerian has joined the room
[21:09:28] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[21:09:34] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[21:10:50] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[21:10:55] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[21:12:08] *** Valerian has left the room
[21:12:33] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[21:14:15] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[21:14:57] *** Kev shows as "away"
[21:15:06] *** waqas shows as "online"
[21:17:43] *** MattJ has left the room
[21:17:43] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:18:40] *** UsL shows as "online"
[21:19:18] *** UsL shows as "chat" and his status message is "wat"
[21:19:28] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:20:12] *** UsL shows as "online" and his status message is "here"
[21:20:31] *** j.r has joined the room
[21:21:28] *** Holger shows as "online"
[21:22:51] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:22:54] *** peter shows as "online"
[21:25:57] *** Holger has left the room
[21:26:03] *** Holger shows as "online"
[21:26:28] *** rtq3 has left the room
[21:30:38] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[21:30:40] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[21:32:58] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:35:29] *** j.r has joined the room
[21:35:47] *** peter shows as "online"
[21:37:50] *** UsL shows as "away" and his status message is "here (afk at least 6 minutes by now)"
[21:38:04] *** Holger has left the room
[21:42:20] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[21:44:47] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[21:45:48] *** UsL shows as "xa" and his status message is " (ded at least 14 minutes by now)"
[21:47:10] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:49:37] *** peter shows as "online"
[21:50:23] *** j.r has joined the room
[21:50:31] *** peter has left the room
[21:51:15] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[21:51:18] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[22:03:04] *** j.r has left the room
[22:03:34] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[22:03:53] *** daniel shows as "online"
[22:05:28] *** j.r has joined the room
[22:06:05] *** SamWhited has left the room
[22:06:40] *** blabla has left the room
[22:06:44] *** blabla has joined the room
[22:14:07] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[22:15:17] *** daniel has left the room
[22:22:52] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:22:53] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[22:23:36] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[22:23:42] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[22:24:08] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[22:24:11] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[22:25:34] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:25:35] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[22:26:18] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:26:28] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[22:27:56] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[22:28:11] *** mimi89999 has joined the room
[22:36:31] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[22:40:32] *** valo has left the room
[22:46:33] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:46:33] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[22:46:57] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:46:57] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:47:23] *** valo has joined the room
[22:47:39] *** rtq3 has left the room
[22:49:19] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[22:57:13] *** Kev has left the room
[23:00:45] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[23:08:57] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[23:10:11] *** alexis has joined the room
[23:15:23] *** alexis has left the room
[23:16:17] *** alexis has joined the room
[23:22:39] *** SamWhited has left the room
[23:26:09] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:30:04] *** UsL has left the room
[23:36:42] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:38:27] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[23:39:48] *** Syndace has joined the room
[23:42:40] *** lumi has left the room
[23:42:58] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[23:57:24] *** jere has left the room
[23:57:37] *** jere has joined the room