XSF Discussion - 2018-06-01


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  54. Steve Kille I sent an email reply to the list.
  55. Steve Kille Agree that option 3 is the worst choice.
  56. Steve Kille Jonas has convinced me that we should stick with option1.
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  169. edhelas Dave Cridland hi :)
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  414. Ge0rG It looks like the #1 reason for CSI/push waking up my iFruit device is IQs from different contacts
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  416. daniel Oh yeah. Answering boring IQ or holding them back is something csi is currently really missing out on
  417. daniel That's like the number one reason my phone wakes up as well
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  423. jonasw which IQs are those typically?
  424. Zash And can we cache them on the server?
  425. daniel Disco probably
  426. Zash Disco can definitively be cached
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  431. Ge0rG Jun 01 14:16:17 c2s56530a2a26a0 debug #queue = 40 Jun 01 14:16:17 c2s56530a2a26a0 debug hibernating, stanza queued Jun 01 14:16:17 c2s56530a2a26a0 debug Invoking cloud handle_notify_request() for smacks queued stanza Jun 01 14:16:17 yax.im:cloud_notify debug Sending push notification for georg@yax.im to push.monal.im (7D87E8CC-0C18-4579-A69C-6C513BF921FB)
  432. Ge0rG Hm. No idea what that was
  433. jonasw Kev, so, in variant 2, when sending a message to an occupant (<channel>@<service>/<user id>), that would not be carbon-copied or archived under XMPP 2.0 rules, right?(
  434. jonasw because the recipient is a full JID
  435. jonasw this is a super-messy complex design space
  436. Ge0rG It's also great how prosody marks CSI as active when a session gets hibernated.
  437. Ge0rG So immediately _after_ hibernation, the CSI queue is flushed and the device is woken up via push
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  440. MattJ Ge0rG, it hurts when you say "Prosody"
  441. MattJ It's a community module not maintained by us, fork it
  442. Ge0rG MattJ: It's also sad how prosody doesn't support any of the features needed for a battery-friendly not-message-losing mobile experience.
  443. Ge0rG Does that sound better now?
  444. MattJ That one I'll take on the chin
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  446. Ge0rG MattJ: I can understand that you don't want to feel responsible to the messy code that just happens to be hosted on your infrastructure, but from a server admin point of view, that distinction doesn't make much sense.
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  449. Ge0rG Even mod_firewall is merely a community module.
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  451. Zash THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, etc
  452. moparisthebest BUT USERS WILL COMPLAIN
  453. jonasw that’s software vendors "HATERS WILL HATE"?
  454. jonasw that’s software vendors’ "HATERS WILL HATE"?
  455. Zash Humans gonna human
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  457. Ge0rG Okay, being in a dozen of MUCs and having a hundred of contacts actually means: 182 wake-ups per hour due to <r/> requests 130 wake-ups per hour due to <iq> 65 wake-ups per hour due to messages 13 "wake-ups" per hour due to responding to <r/> from the client
  458. Zash I have zero wake-ups per hour due to <r/>
  459. Ge0rG Not using smacks? :P
  460. Zash Nope
  461. Zash CSI + MAM
  462. MattJ Ge0rG, FWIW prosody-modules was originally intentionally not hosted on our infrastructure
  463. MattJ However Google Code shut down
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  466. Ge0rG MattJ: yes, it was a huge hit to many OSS projects.
  467. Ge0rG Oh, yes. It looks like most of the IQ traffic is disco#info indeed.
  468. jonasw Ge0rG, you might wanna try that thing Link Mauve did
  469. Ge0rG jonasw: ah, that thing Link Mauve did. Right.
  470. Ge0rG What are you talking about? 🤔
  471. jonasw which answers on behalf of the client
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  473. Zash The Thing™
  474. jonasw for disco#info if they publish caps
  475. Zash jonasw: disco#info cache?
  476. Ge0rG MattJ: my intention really isn't to assign blame to anyone, all I wish for is to have a better server so that my father-in-law can finally receive my messages.
  477. Link Mauve Oh, I also want that, for all of my users.
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  479. Ge0rG Link Mauve: for your users to receive your messages? Thought about writing a blog? :P
  480. Ge0rG Link Mauve: where can I find The Thing™?
  481. Link Mauve Ge0rG, https://modules.prosody.im/ and search for "caps".
  482. Ge0rG Link Mauve: https://modules.prosody.im/mod_cache_c2s_caps.html ?
  483. MattJ Ge0rG: that's my intention also, believe me
  484. Link Mauve And this one to actually do something: https://modules.prosody.im/mod_auto_answer_disco_info.html
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  486. Ge0rG Link Mauve: how beta is that combo? will it work on 0.10?
  487. Link Mauve I only tested it on trunk, and haven’t deployed it to any big service.
  488. Link Mauve I only tested it on trunk, and haven’t deployed it to any big service yet.
  489. Link Mauve So very beta.
  490. Ge0rG crosses fingers.
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  494. Ge0rG Link Mauve: it doesn't look like it's doing anything.
  495. Ge0rG Or does it require the client to re-login first?
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  497. Link Mauve Hmm, it shouldn’t.
  498. Link Mauve Oh.
  499. Link Mauve Yes, the cache thing needs it to publish its caps.
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  501. Ge0rG And now my re-logged-in client returns empty disco#info
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  503. Ge0rG Whoops, why did it change the resource?!
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  505. Ge0rG Jun 01 15:01:45 yax.im:auto_answer_disco_info debug Answering disco#info on the behalf of georg@yax.im/Monal-iOS.79
  506. Ge0rG it looks like it's working.
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  508. Ge0rG Link Mauve: could you please change the module:log into session.log everywhere?
  509. Link Mauve Sure, is that the new preferred way to log things?
  510. Ge0rG Also, is the cache per-JID or is it global per-node?
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  512. Ge0rG oh, it's a per-full-JID one-item cache, right?
  513. Link Mauve Per-JID, because of issues with 0115.
  514. Ge0rG Link Mauve: good job
  515. Link Mauve Correct, only the last one.
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  519. Link Mauve I tried to implement that quite defensively.
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  521. Ge0rG So I've loaded it now on yax.im. Will complain loudly (as I always do) if it fails.
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  523. Ge0rG Also seems to work, except for the module:logging instead of session logging.
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  533. Kev > Kev, so, in variant 2, when sending a message to an occupant (<channel>@<service>/<user id>), that would not be carbon-copied or archived under XMPP 2.0 rules, right? That's about the address it's too, not from. It's to the user's bare JID, so it gets archived (and carbons aren't a thing any more under the new rules)
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  536. Kev And yes, it's a complex space.
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  570. jonasw Kev, I mean on the sender side. I send a 1:1 message to an occupant in a MIX, so to <channel>@<service>/<user id>. This is to a full JID (even though in MIX context, it has the semantics of a bare JID), so it would not get carbon-copied or archived on my side
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  585. Kev In variant 2 that's a problem, yes. I don't think it's a problem with variant 4.
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  592. Ge0rG In XEP-0357, does a client need to enable push notification on its server once or once per login?
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  594. Zash per login IIRC
  595. Zash It's per client/session, and there's no client tracking in servers (yet?)
  596. Ge0rG How is the client supposed to be woken up if it's not connected?
  597. Zash It .. persists?
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  599. Ge0rG So the push remains even after the session is dead?
  600. Zash Yes
  601. daniel Technically you wouldn't have to register on every login. You just do so the server can map a push target to a session
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  604. daniel And *not* notify an active session
  605. Ge0rG How does prosody^W that community thing handle it?
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  609. MattJ afaik it expects the client to register every login
  610. Ge0rG what happens after the session got hibernated and then destroyed?
  611. MattJ https://hg.prosody.im/prosody-modules/file/6abee021d9db/mod_cloud_notify/business_rules.markdown
  612. Ge0rG that document essentially writes that as soon as the session is hibernated, it's woken up by push.
  613. Ge0rG but not what happens on destruction
  614. Ge0rG oh, the b) part.
  615. Ge0rG But I don't see that in my logs.
  616. Zash Is this where I dig up something you said about mod_pinger to use as proof that you want the client woken up all the time? ;)
  617. pep. >Ge0rG> my intention really isn't to assign blame to anyone, all I wish for is to have a better server so that my father-in-law can finally receive my messages. That one thing we all wish for on an IM protocol, for users to receive our messages :)
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  620. Ge0rG Zash: > I could well live with mod_pinger completely ignoring 0198 sessions (as outlined in the first comment to this issue).
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  808. Ge0rG https://upload.yax.im/upload/ry1sb7gR9MLW98BL/Screenshot_20180601-200703.png - exactly what I imagined with PARS.
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  894. Zash Ge0rG: Didn't you have pretty much that but for yaxim? And doesn't daniel have pretty much that for Conversations?
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  904. Ge0rG Zash: except ours is interoperable with other clients and platforms
  905. Zash but but the lock-in!!
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