ralphmWho's here and do you have something for the Agenda?
MattJMe, I can briefly state the status of the survey results and GDPR
ralphmOk. Did we get minutes from last meeting?
404.cityPlease add this pull requst https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/454
MattJI'd really appreciate if someone else could do that this week, I'm 2 weeks behind and am going to have less time over the next 7 days
Guusnyco, can you please? I'm neck-deep in work
ralphmHoping someone will volunteer still, moving on.
ralphm1. Survey results
nycome too, but ok
ralphmwe got you nyco
MattJSurvey results: I have collated the quantitive questions, and the priorities questions, which makes for the bulk of the results
MattJI don't have them in a nice format right now, but I can send them out right after the meeting once I figure something out
nycoyes, please... what's the top one?
MattJI grouped them by category, the category with the most responses was "Developer/community"
MattJContaining suggestions such as organising workshops/etc.
404.cityI'm here to ask about Githab?
MattJNothing to report on the GDPR front currently
ralphm404.city: we're in the middle of a meeting, can you please wait until after. It is not a Board topic.
MattJI'll try to put some time in over the next week or two
ralphmok, no worries
MattJI know I didn't do the minutes, but I think a dangling action item was actually formalizing the team
MattJI didn't ping Alex again, that was another one
Ge0rGI might be able to assist with GDPR in the second half of July or later
MattJThanks Ge0rG, same may apply to me
ralphmAs we are nearing summer holidays, one thing that popped up is we need to start preparing council and board elections after. Just to keep in the back of our heads.
404.cityMattJ, ralphm Thanks
nycoor maybe "online shop" or "goodies"?
ralphmnyco: I don't recall what we discussed on this last time, to be honest.
nycoI proposed it as an agenda item
ralphmOh, I missed it
Ge0rGsomebody should volunteer to evaluate some shop platforms and obtain Board permission to start a shop?
Ge0rGThen also determine what to do with the money and how to transfer it into XSF accounts?
nycowe are exploring alternatives now
GuusGe0rG: nyco already did / is.
nycohere is a subset of the alternatives to cafepress that I have found:
ralphmAnd we probably also want to have an ok on designs going up there
nycosome more are dedicated to T-shirts (and a few more clothes)
some others are made for authors, musicians, and filmmakers.
nycoto me, this seems like the most readable:
Base Price + Your Royalty Percentage = Retail Price
so the pricing+royalties seem clear to me that cafepress
nycowhat do you think? does this raise questions and doubts?
ralphmI'd prefer we can control what items get logos on them. I seem to remember that with cafepress they'd be able to throw it on anything?
Guusnyco: who owns copyright of the designs?
ralphmI'd do this similarly to XEPs, t.b.h.
nycoralphm I don't remember that
MattJUpdate XEP-0001 to include coffee mugs?
Guusnyco, yes I remember that we discussed that regarding cafepress. There at least was uncertainty. (I wouldn't mind much, by the way)
ralphmMattJ: well, at least assign rights to the XSF, like in our IPR policy for XEPs (https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/ipr-policy).
404.cityI like the scheme of donations for TOR https://donate.torproject.org/pdr You donate, gifts are given to you
nycoall right there seems to be too many interrogations, plus the payment, the bank, etc.
I propose we forget it
Guusralphm: I'd like to make sure that the shop we end up choosing requires us to do something similar, and assign rights over to them.
ralphm404.city: this is about selling items. We also have a sponsorship track, and accept donations.
ralphmGuus: does or doesn't?
ralphmGuus: I don't think they ask for copyright assignment, but rather certain licenses to use (for printing)
Guusralphm: I do not want the shop to own the rights to our designs. I don't have a strong opinion if the XSF or the original designer should have those rights.
Guusralphm, that would be fine by me.
ralphmWell, having the XSF have rights makes things less complicated later on.
Guusralphm: probably true.
Guusbut we can probably sort that out after we start a quick proof of concept?
MattJYeah, I don't see any red flags with Zazzle
MattJI'm wondering it it's more expensive (takes a larger cut than Cafepress)
nycothat was just the pricing schema
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ralphmRIght. Let's have a detailed look and come back on this next time.
Ge0rG404.city: now you can bring up your PR. Maybe Guus or jonasw can just merge it.
Ge0rGAlbeit I fear that adding more and more servers will lead that list to become very long.
Ge0rGI'd love to have a central, well-maintained list of public servers with a high lever feature overview. But keeping that is real work™
Ge0rGAnd we have already https://conversations.im/compliance/
MattJGe0rG, it's been done (and failed) many times
GuusI'm unfamiliar with 404.city, and the github user that made the request is unknown to me. That, plus a suspicion that I at one time saw a lot of abuse from that domain makes me wonder if we should add that to our list.
Ge0rGMattJ: yes, but it was great to just pull the XML from xmpp.net into my client's auto-completion dropdown values table
404.cityGe0rG, 404.city is one of the largest servers. + 10 000 user for one year.
jonaswMattJ, can you give a quick OK for https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/674/files ?
Ge0rGhow many of them are spam bots? 😁
jonaswKevin is co-author and ACKed this on-list already
danielthe website says 705 concurrent
404.city+700 online users
Ge0rGyax.im has 1066 clients connected right now.
Ge0rG404.city: we can't simply add all servers with 500+ online users to that list.
Ge0rGOTOH, we don't have very good criteria for which ones to add.
ZashSomething something neutrality
404.cityI am engaged in the promotion of XMPP by providing high-end services.
404.citySome servers in this list do not even allow you to register, and the quality of the servers themselves is poor.
Ge0rGYes, the current list sucks.
Guuscriteria for that list on that page are focussed around how easy it is for a new user to sign up
Ge0rGGuus: then we should remove all servers without IBR from that list
GuusGe0rG: all servers on the list had a web-based sign-up form at the time they were added to the list.
404.cityservers number of people more than 500 on the fingers to count.
Ge0rGGuus: yax.im never did
GuusGe0rG: my original list, that is 🙂
GuusI'm fine with having IBR too, by the way
Ge0rGGuus: I wasn't aware that a web form is a prerequisite ;)
Guusas long as it's easy for a novice user to register somehow
GuusI never said it's a prerequisite. 🙂
Ge0rGGuus: it sounded like it.
Ge0rGGuus: anyway, we need some objective criteria for that list.
Ge0rGI agree with 404.city in that regard.
GuusI said the prerequisite was that the link should offer clear instructions on how to sign up. Which is totally objective as I'll be the judge of what everyone is required to find clear instructions.
GuusGe0rG: I'm a big fan of avoiding loooong discussions on what objective criteria should be.
Guusif someone that I know wants to vouch for that server, I'm happy enough.
404.cityI suggest simply adding 404.city. If you want then you can delete. The server does not exist for long, but the increment is significant. I'm trying to promote XMPP, you could help me in this
Guus404.city: I am grateful for you promoting XMPP - but my issue remain: I don't know who you are, I have no experience with your server, and I know no-one that does.
404.cityGuus, Can I help somehow in this matter?
Ge0rG404.city: you could also ping daniel to add your server to https://status.conversations.im/
Guus404.city: it wouldn't hurt for you to be fully anonymous - but again, I'm primarily looking for other people to tell me that they've used your server, and are happy with it.
edhelasdaniel that's a nice tool :)
Guus404.city: in the mean time, I'm getting private messages to the contrary, by the way. It's suggested that you've been experiencing load-related issues. Is that true? If so, it does not seem smart to invite more people to your server.
edhelasmovim.eu added to the list :)
404.cityGuus, No, I have no problems.
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404.cityGuus, The current state of the server can withstand 10,000 people online
404.cityThe only problem is that nobody knows about the 404.city. He does not exist for 15 years, as Jabber.ru (7000 user oline) and XMPP.org (17000 user online). Other server the list Jwchat ~900user online. Do not forget that statistics can be shown in different ways. If I show all people per day, it will be more than 404.city= ~1500 people.If I show all the devices connected, then it will be even more. 700 people is a user without cheating.
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edhelas404.city you have a typo on your homepage
edhelas" Convesations Legacy", for all the buttons
daniel404.city: there are plenty of smaller / new servers that found their audience
danielWithout being listed on xmpp.org
danielJust be patient
danielAlso slow and steady growth is better for everyone
Ge0rGyou can promote your server by other means, to get more people on board :)
Ge0rGwe are trying to spread the load anyway. It's much worse to have 10 servers with 100k users each than 1000 servers with 1000 users each.
Ge0rGbecause if one server dies, the impact is much bigger
edhelas404.city ensure that the users that you have are also valid :) it's easy to claim thousands of active users and have plenty of bots and spammers in them
404.city404 uses captcha for register
edhelasI'm not sure if it's enough :)
404.cityGe0rG, Why do not you promote your server yax.im in a different way?
Ge0rG404.city: yax.im is there to make onboarding for users of yaxim easier.
Ge0rG404.city: it's preselected in yaxim. I don't see an urgent need to become the largest XMPP server ever.
404.cityedhelas, In addition to captcha, there is a limit on sending subscriptions.
Guusthe point of that list is not to promote a server. The point of that list is to make it easier for new users to get started with XMPP.
404.cityGuus, The server 404.city is made to simplify this task as much as possible
Ge0rGcaptchas make that harder ;)
404.cityGe0rG, Spam is bad.
Ge0rGI know that first-hand.
404.cityGe0rG, To me, too, used to come spam from your server
Ge0rG404.city: I'm sure you immediately reported it ;)
404.cityGe0rG, No, I did not report it otherwise than in the conference of operators
Ge0rGI'm monitoring the operators@ MUC, most of the time.
Ge0rGBut it's better to report directly. I'm taking those things seriously