Monday, July 09, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[10:34:59] *** efrit has joined the room
[10:37:52] *** lnj shows as "online"
[10:40:20] *** alacer has left the room
[10:40:28] *** alacer has joined the room
[10:42:16] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[10:45:27] *** Valerian has left the room
[10:45:31] *** Valerian has joined the room
[10:45:45] *** jubalh has left the room
[10:45:46] *** Valerian has left the room
[10:47:29] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[10:48:06] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[10:48:43] *** mikaela has left the room
[10:51:45] *** Zash shows as "online"
[10:51:56] *** Zash has left the room
[10:52:21] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[10:52:57] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[10:53:14] *** lnj has left the room
[10:53:50] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[10:53:59] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
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[10:54:02] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
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[10:54:25] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[10:54:28] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[10:54:44] *** daniel has left the room
[10:54:46] *** andy shows as "away"
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[10:55:07] *** mikaela has joined the room
[10:55:16] *** daniel has left the room
[10:55:23] *** daniel has joined the room
[10:56:53] *** mikaela shows as "online"
[10:58:03] *** lnj shows as "online"
[10:59:46] *** andy shows as "xa"
[11:00:17] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:00:27] *** Zash has left the room
[11:05:46] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:06:40] *** andy shows as "online"
[11:12:51] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[11:13:27] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[11:13:30] *** andy shows as "away"
[11:15:45] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:18:30] *** andy shows as "xa"
[11:19:02] *** ta shows as "online"
[11:19:48] *** j.r has left the room
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[11:20:25] *** lnj has left the room
[11:22:46] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[11:25:09] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[11:25:11] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[11:25:17] *** andy shows as "online"
[11:27:39] *** vanitasvitae has joined the room
[11:32:13] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:32:14] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:32:21] *** rishiraj22 shows as "online"
[11:32:27] *** marmistrz has joined the room
[11:34:05] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[11:39:22] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[11:41:14] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
[11:41:59] *** Valerian has joined the room
[11:43:04] *** muppeth has joined the room
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[11:47:11] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:47:12] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:50:03] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:50:49] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:50:59] *** j.r has joined the room
[11:51:25] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[11:52:26] *** Zash has left the room
[11:52:32] *** Zash shows as "online"
[11:53:44] *** rishiraj22 shows as "online"
[11:54:46] *** lskdjf shows as "away"
[11:55:23] *** tux shows as "away"
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[12:02:28] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[12:03:16] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:04:10] *** daniel has left the room
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[12:06:01] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:07:16] *** 404.city has left the room
[12:08:12] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:09:09] *** Syndace has left the room
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[12:12:38] *** jere has left the room
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[12:13:15] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[12:14:21] *** tezt has joined the room
[12:18:40] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[12:19:43] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[12:21:03] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:23:44] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[12:26:23] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[12:26:28] *** andy shows as "away"
[12:26:44] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[12:26:55] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[12:28:11] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[12:28:44] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[12:29:01] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[12:29:07] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[12:29:18] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[12:29:41] *** alacer has left the room
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[12:31:27] *** andy shows as "xa"
[12:38:49] *** rishiraj22 shows as "online"
[12:39:08] *** cookie has joined the room
[12:39:08] *** cookie shows as "online"
[12:42:58] *** andy shows as "online"
[12:43:03] *** Tobias has joined the room
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[12:44:16] *** lskdjf has left the room
[12:45:29] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[12:47:48] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[12:49:00] *** rion shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[12:51:12] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[12:52:47] *** jubalh has joined the room
[12:54:46] *** daniel has left the room
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[12:59:10] *** rion shows as "online"
[13:00:44] *** andy shows as "away"
[13:03:19] *** daniel has left the room
[13:03:40] *** daniel has joined the room
[13:05:06] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[13:05:43] *** andy shows as "xa"
[13:05:52] *** alacer has left the room
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[13:07:49] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:08:24] *** andy shows as "online"
[13:09:06] *** Zash has left the room
[13:09:09] *** blabla has left the room
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[13:10:38] *** Kev shows as "away"
[13:15:09] *** andy has left the room
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[13:15:56] *** jjrh has left the room
[13:15:56] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[13:16:23] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:17:37] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
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[13:25:24] *** lovetox has left the room
[13:26:06] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:26:07] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:27:08] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[13:27:10] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[13:28:57] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:32:26] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
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[13:34:51] *** jjrh has left the room
[13:34:54] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[13:35:03] *** andy has left the room
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[13:35:21] *** alacer has left the room
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[13:36:33] *** daniel has left the room
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[13:36:41] *** jjrh has left the room
[13:36:51] *** jjrh shows as "online"
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[13:37:35] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[13:37:43] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[13:38:57] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:39:10] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:42:45] *** muppeth has joined the room
[13:44:37] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[13:44:51] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[13:49:25] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:50:49] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[13:51:22] *** andy has left the room
[13:51:46] *** tux shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work work …"
[13:54:56] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[13:55:15] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:56:19] *** Guus has left the room
[13:56:20] *** Guus shows as "online"
[13:57:49] *** rishiraj22 shows as "online"
[13:58:20] *** Kev shows as "online"
[14:00:31] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:02:36] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:05:01] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:05:31] *** Valerian has left the room
[14:08:45] *** alacer has left the room
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[14:09:40] *** Valerian has joined the room
[14:09:46] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[14:10:32] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:10:33] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:11:24] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[14:13:21] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:13:21] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[14:15:34] *** Guus has left the room
[14:15:56] *** Guus shows as "online"
[14:16:31] *** alacer has left the room
[14:17:48] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
[14:17:59] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
[14:19:11] *** 404.city has joined the room
[14:22:45] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[14:22:46] *** Guus has left the room
[14:23:09] *** Guus shows as "online"
[14:27:37] *** alacer has joined the room
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[14:30:02] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:30:03] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:30:37] *** jubalh has joined the room
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[14:34:20] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:34:20] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:34:24] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
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[14:34:27] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
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[14:35:24] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:37:08] *** j.r has joined the room
[14:37:49] *** Yagiza has left the room
[14:38:38] *** ralphm shows as "online"
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[14:41:14] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[14:42:00] *** rion has left the room
[14:43:34] *** lskdjf shows as "away"
[14:43:45] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:43:45] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:44:27] *** daniel shows as "online"
[14:45:03] *** rion has joined the room
[14:45:24] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[14:47:33] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
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[14:50:03] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:50:04] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:51:52] *** Valerian has left the room
[14:51:52] *** Valerian has joined the room
[14:52:55] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:53:11] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
[14:53:19] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
[14:53:27] *** Yagiza has left the room
[14:54:53] *** Valerian has left the room
[14:54:54] *** Valerian has joined the room
[14:55:51] *** blabla has joined the room
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[14:57:46] *** daniel shows as "online"
[14:59:46] *** ThibG has left the room
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[15:01:23] *** rion has left the room
[15:02:55] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:03:02] *** daniel has left the room
[15:06:32] *** daniel shows as "online"
[15:10:15] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[15:10:57] *** jonasw has left the room
[15:14:30] *** lskdjf has left the room
[15:16:15] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:16:46] *** Zash has left the room
[15:19:32] *** alacer has left the room
[15:19:48] *** Kev shows as "away"
[15:19:51] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:19:51] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:20:43] *** Kev shows as "online"
[15:20:46] *** rion has joined the room
[15:22:43] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:24:29] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:25:17] *** ralphm has left the room
[15:31:44] *** rion has left the room
[15:32:20] *** jubalh shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:32:41] *** blabla has joined the room
[15:33:04] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[15:34:05] *** rion has joined the room
[15:36:03] *** Zash shows as "online"
[15:36:48] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[15:38:49] *** daniel has left the room
[15:38:53] <Yagiza> Hello!
[15:39:10] <MattJ> Hi!
[15:39:14] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[15:40:18] *** Valerian has left the room
[15:40:19] *** Valerian has joined the room
[15:40:21] <jonasw> Ohai!
[15:41:44] *** rion has left the room
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[15:42:13] <Yagiza> There is an interesting question here... What to do with MUC participant list, when client leaves the room because of connection error? Is it a good idea to cleanup the list, or maybe leave them all, but display offline, or maybe keep the list in it's last state before we disconnected?
[15:42:30] <jonasw> Yagiza, I clear it
[15:42:55] <Yagiza> Psi displays last state, Vacuum-IM and eyeCU cleans up.
[15:43:18] <Yagiza> Did any1 ever discussed it?
[15:43:43] <Yagiza> Or every1 just do as he likes.
[15:44:11] <jonasw> "any1"?
[15:44:19] *** muppeth has joined the room
[15:44:32] <daniel> Conversations always displays the full member list in members only rooms. So offline members are shown as such
[15:44:32] <Yagiza> Anyone
[15:45:05] <daniel> But I don't think you should display everyone who has ever joined a muc as offline in that list
[15:45:22] *** Zash has left the room
[15:45:25] <daniel> Especially since you can't identify if someone rejoined with a different nick
[15:45:32] *** Zash has joined the room
[15:46:26] <Yagiza> Yes. We are choosing between "keep displaying last state" or "clear list".
[15:46:50] *** jubalh shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:47:03] *** rishiraj22 shows as "online"
[15:47:20] <MattJ> daniel, I think you have the same misunderstanding as I originally did: Yagiza is asking about displaying the participants in the local client when the local client is disconnected
[15:47:33] <daniel> Oh
[15:47:56] <Yagiza> Yeah!
[15:49:00] *** alacer has joined the room
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[15:50:00] *** rishiraj22 shows as "online"
[15:51:50] *** alacer has left the room
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[15:52:26] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[15:52:34] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[15:54:29] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[15:54:38] *** daniel has left the room
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[15:55:04] *** edhelas has left the room
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[15:56:50] *** jubalh shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:57:03] *** edhelas has left the room
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[16:00:00] *** muppeth has joined the room
[16:00:34] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:00:34] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:01:17] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:01:19] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:01:43] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:01:44] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:04:00] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[16:04:09] *** Zash shows as "online"
[16:04:52] *** marc has joined the room
[16:06:06] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[16:08:12] *** lumi shows as "online"
[16:09:40] *** Zash shows as "online"
[16:09:42] *** Zash shows as "online"
[16:14:50] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[16:15:01] *** Zash has left the room
[16:15:48] *** labdsf has left the room
[16:15:49] *** labdsf shows as "online"
[16:16:39] *** Kev shows as "away"
[16:17:56] *** SamWhited has left the room
[16:18:41] *** Zash has left the room
[16:21:57] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:21:57] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:22:43] *** Valerian has left the room
[16:24:45] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[16:24:47] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[16:25:38] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:25:41] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:30:01] *** ralphm has joined the room
[16:30:18] *** winfried shows as "online"
[16:31:00] *** rishiraj22 shows as "online"
[16:31:42] *** daniel has left the room
[16:35:47] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[16:35:49] *** rishiraj22 shows as "online"
[16:37:41] *** waqas has joined the room
[16:38:30] *** efrit has left the room
[16:38:51] *** nyco has left the room
[16:39:33] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[16:39:47] *** marc has left the room
[16:39:50] *** 404.city has left the room
[16:39:50] *** nyco shows as "online"
[16:41:03] <Ge0rG> In theory, you should be able to store pending outgoing PMs to other participants when offline, allowing the user to type... Of course you can not be sure if they will be there when you return, but there are the same reace conditions while being online.
[16:41:04] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[16:41:13] *** waqas has left the room
[16:41:28] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[16:41:41] *** waqas has joined the room
[16:42:00] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[16:42:03] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:42:59] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:43:00] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:43:00] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:43:04] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:44:11] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:44:22] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[16:45:59] *** ta shows as "online"
[16:49:54] *** Syndace has joined the room
[16:50:07] *** 404.city has joined the room
[16:51:10] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:51:17] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:51:37] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:55:40] *** Guus has left the room
[16:56:40] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[16:59:24] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[17:01:12] *** rishiraj22 shows as "online"
[17:02:21] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[17:03:40] *** jubalh shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:05:51] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:05:58] *** muppeth has left the room
[17:06:01] *** muppeth has joined the room
[17:06:03] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[17:11:07] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:13:16] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[17:13:40] *** jubalh shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:14:03] *** jjrh has left the room
[17:14:09] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[17:15:02] *** jjrh has left the room
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[17:21:05] <MattJ> So... removing one word from a XEP that leads to people misinterpreting it
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[17:21:23] <MattJ> Is that an editorial change I can just make a PR for? Does it need a revision bump?
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[17:22:05] <Zash> What was the word?
[17:22:10] <MattJ> "initial"
[17:23:15] <MattJ> In the context of the response, the words "initial query" are used to refer to "the query at the start of the results"
[17:23:40] <MattJ> But it easily leads to the interpretation (which is already difficult enough to avoid) that there is such a thing as an "initial query" and a "page query"
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[17:29:08] <SamWhited> Sounds editorial to me
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[18:24:05] <jonasw> MattJ, is this about RSM?
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[18:25:03] <jonasw> in any case: make a PR with the change, I’ll add the revision block if I think it’s needed (and I may -- since it changes the interpretation many people seem to have initially (pun not intended), it makes sense to have a revision block for that so people can clear up their confusion using the attic)
[18:25:04] <MattJ> It's about MAM
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[19:03:05] <Kev> > Is that an editorial change I can just make a PR for? Does it need a revision bump?

All changes need a revision bump, whether editorial or not, just a question of which version part gets bumped.
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[19:04:25] <jonasw> reminds me to update the atitc
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[19:13:46] <MattJ> Kev, pretty sure grammar fixes and typos haven't had revision bumps in the past
[19:13:59] *Ge0rG needs to add some real content into 0379
[19:14:00] <Kev> They might not have, but they should.
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[19:14:27] <Kev> We agreed a few years ago that all changes would have version bumps from then on, and that particular versions would be immutable.
[19:14:48] <MattJ> Alright
[19:14:56] *jonasw makes a mental note
[19:15:05] <jonasw> I’m pretty sure I haven’t version bumped some very trivial typo changes
[19:15:11] <jonasw> (and not updated the attic, either)
[19:15:16] <jonasw> (so it’s at least immutable)
[19:15:29] <jonasw> (once the next version has been released, it’ll be as if the typo fix was in that next version)
[19:15:42] <jonasw> actually, I think this isn’t the worst way to do things.
[19:15:54] <Kev> In this case, if we're talking about a change that makes the XEP less confusing, that means we're changing the perceived meaning and bumping seems particularly important.
[19:16:10] <jonasw> Kev, I agree
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[19:16:29] <jonasw> I would definitely revision bump that as I explained above.
[19:16:40] <Kev> Properly trivial typos I can go either way on.
[19:16:44] <jonasw> but it feels awfully overheaddy to me to version bump a "fobar" -> "foobar" typo fix
[19:17:03] <Kev> When there's a process I think it's good to follow it, but ... as you say.
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