XSF Discussion - 2018-07-10


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  737. MattJ Should a MUC room require a password for affiliated JIDs?
  738. MattJ XEP-0045 is silent on the matter as far as I can tell
  739. Ge0rG I'd say yes, for consistency reasons.
  740. Ge0rG But then again... 🤔
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  742. Kev I think xep45 should be inconsistent, for consistency reasons.
  743. jonasw well played
  744. MattJ and another case I just hit... if a password is supplied but the room isn't password-protected...? :)
  745. Ge0rG is that due to process consistency, or due to consistency process?
  746. jonasw MattJ, uh... ignore?
  747. Kev Ge0rG: Not sure, but I think so.
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  749. Ge0rG MattJ: I'd say: if the joining user is admin/owner, the room should be updated to use the password, otherwise, the user join be rejected.
  750. Zash What if a password is given in the room creation stanza?
  751. Ge0rG </s>
  752. Kev MattJ: There's an argument for rejecting, I think.
  753. Kev If the security properties of the room have changed unexpectedly.
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  758. MattJ That's what Prosody currently does, it seems
  759. Ge0rG This is the kind of argument that we owe proxy JIDs to.
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  761. MattJ But it doesn't seem very useful (or requiring a password for owner/admin/member)
  762. Ge0rG Yeah, I can see how it might be useful to let the admins in without a password.
  763. Kev Or at least owners.
  764. Ge0rG if the owner wants to exclude admins, they should remove them from the affiliation list first?
  765. Kev Fair.
  766. Ge0rG maybe we should deprecate passwords for the sake of explicit affiliation management and namespace-bump?
  767. MattJ No thanks
  768. MattJ I just used passwords for something
  769. Ge0rG for whatthing?
  770. jonasw namespace-bump XEP-0045.
  771. MattJ jonasw, good idea
  772. jonasw can we tempban Ge0rG from all MUCs for this day? he’s trolling too much :)
  773. MattJ Ge0rG, a system where you invite one JID, but a different JID will join
  774. MattJ So I made a module that injects an invite token into the outgoing invite's password field, and validates the token provided as the password of the joining user
  775. jonasw uhhh
  776. jonasw I’m interested
  777. jonasw I want MUC invites
  778. jonasw to members only MUCs
  779. Ge0rG jonasw: I was just going to say that this isn't possible due to the federated nature of XMPP, but then I realized that there is a person in this MUC who could disable my access to yax.im and firewall me off.
  780. jonasw in onboarding
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  783. Ge0rG MattJ: that's... interesting.
  784. Ge0rG MattJ: but please use PARS instead.
  785. Ge0rG I mean, technically you could just have per-user "passwords" for a MUC, but it feels wrong.
  786. Ge0rG It's a hack.
  787. Ge0rG Actually, I like it.
  788. jonasw :D
  789. jonasw reminds me that I need to try my per-device password SASL authcid hack
  790. MattJ Ge0rG, PARS isn't suitable here, the invite is accepted by a machine
  791. jonasw MattJ, what’s wrong with that?
  792. Ge0rG MattJ: use the PARS wire format to pass tokens along.
  793. MattJ Ge0rG, so you mean use a <preauth> element instead of a <password> element?
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  798. Ge0rG MattJ: essentially yes, also you could use the URI parameter to carry such invitations via HTTPS
  799. MattJ Maybe in a future version
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  801. MattJ The nice things about passwords is that all the code I was dealing with already supported them
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  803. MattJ (except in reality each component had a bug, such as looking for or putting the password in the wrong place in the stanza)
  804. MattJ Turns out it's not a child of the <invite> element
  805. Ge0rG MattJ: you could change the server to use the pars token as the primary mechanism but to allow passing the token in the password field
  806. Ge0rG yeah, invitations with passwords are funny.
  807. Ge0rG nobody is checking corner cases
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  1029. Zash I'm trying to implement tombstones for MUC. How am I supposed to signal that?
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  1031. MattJ Isn't it in XEP-0045?
  1032. Zash Not really
  1033. Zash Not that I could see at least.
  1034. MattJ Oh, you mean signal that the service implements tombstones?
  1035. Zash To signal that, when joining/creating a room, that it's already been destroyed.
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  1054. Zash Hm, this seems to work with Gajim
  1055. Zash Just needed to not reply with weird <messages>
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