XSF Discussion - 2018-07-17


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  434. jonasw where do clients get information like "inactive for N days" from?
  435. jonasw is that XEP-0256?
  436. Ge0rG I think daniel was consulting various resources.
  437. jonasw a contact of mine claims I have been inactive for three days
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  441. jonasw it’s pidgin.
  442. jonasw of course.
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  444. jonasw <query xmlns='jabber:iq:last' seconds='336148'/>
  445. jonasw no idea why
  446. jonasw I even reconnected in the meantime
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  492. lnj https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-July/035250.html jonasw, When using a different element for the uploading status, there's one concern I have: it's not backwards-compatible with old clients.
  493. jonasw lnj, why not?
  494. jonasw old clients will simply ignore it
  495. jonasw and I don’t think there’s a way to make old clients understand that you’re uploading without adding a new element...
  496. lnj Old clients would display at least "composing"
  497. jonasw yes; you can achieve that by sending <uploading/> together with <composing/>.
  498. jonasw like I suggested in the example
  499. lnj ups ..
  500. lnj haven't seen that
  501. lnj Then it's definitely the better alternative
  502. jonasw yeah, it allows to use those states independently of the current XEP-0085 state
  503. jonasw which is nice
  504. jonasw (it can even be used without XEP-0085 altogether)
  505. daniel But will it be caught be csi? 🤔
  506. jonasw beware though, I expect a whole lot of discussion when you propose this, since recently people discussed whether moving that type of stuff into (directed) presence isn’t more sensible ....
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  509. Ge0rG CSI and MAM need to be made aware of those new changes.
  510. Ge0rG Currently, prosody's MAM will remove known-irrelevant elements from the message and check for emptiness in the end.
  511. Ge0rG known-irrelevant is CSN
  512. jonasw if only we had namespaced attributes
  513. daniel Ge0rG: right. So that will land in mam and not be caught by csi
  514. jonasw one could tack csi:require-push="true" on message-child-level elements or something
  515. lnj Wouldn't it make sense to add a attribute (subelement) to indicate a message is not important and should be catched by CSI on the server
  516. daniel Also beware the jingle circlejerk
  517. Ge0rG lnj: IM 2.0 will solve all our problems.
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  519. lnj What's IM 2.0?
  520. jonasw lnj, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0409.html
  521. Ge0rG There is still https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/im-ng.html
  522. lnj Isn't XEP-0409 only a replacement for carbons?
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  524. jonasw Ge0rG, eh.... that has been accepted as XEP-0409
  525. jonasw lnj, it also affects MAM
  526. lnj Ah ok
  527. Ge0rG it doesn't even *replace* carbons ;)
  528. jonasw Ge0rG, does it not?
  529. jonasw > A client activating IM-NG MUST NOT also activate Carbons.
  530. jonasw sounds very replacy to me
  531. Ge0rG Hmyes.
  532. Ge0rG Ignore everything I say.
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  535. lnj Would you accept Media Sharing Notifications (*MSN*) as XEP name? ;D
  536. jonasw that sounds about right
  537. Ge0rG that doesn't sound bad
  538. lnj The abbrieviation is also good ...
  539. jonasw yupp
  540. jonasw I like it
  541. Ge0rG I object.
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  543. jonasw lnj, if you need any editorial help, let me know.
  544. Ge0rG MSN is already defined as multi-session-nicks in MUCs
  545. Ge0rG -1 on formal grounds.
  546. jonasw Ge0rG, so? that makes it a perfect fit.
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  548. jonasw (seriously though, I missed that and I think another name would be good)
  549. Ge0rG jonasw: it's bad enough that we are abusing acronyms from pop culture and from older IM systems. We can't start abusing our own acronyms.
  550. Ge0rG Media Upload Notifications maybe?
  551. jonasw MUN, wfm
  552. jonasw MTN would be good to (Transfer)
  553. lnj jonasw: Currently everything's fine. My biggest problem are the quotes from plays of Shakespear.
  554. lnj :D
  555. lnj I'd take MTN
  556. Ge0rG but it's not "transfer", it's "upload". If it were transfer, the receiver would be able to count bytes themselves.
  557. Ge0rG Also, the HTTP library I'm using is incapable of providing a sane progress report.
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  560. lnj But actually there should also be notifications for the recording of audio/video, so Transfer and Upload both don't fit completely
  561. jonasw lnj, hm, right
  562. Ge0rG Call it "File Sharing Notification" FSN?
  563. lnj That would be an option
  564. Ge0rG "File" is old-school, but it nicely fits with CSN
  565. jonasw that misses the recording stuff too
  566. Ge0rG actually I'd like it to be `?SN`
  567. Dave Cridland It's OK. Names don't have to make perfect sense, just enough that you can guess the scope and where to find the specification.
  568. jonasw Ge0rG, "Stuff Sharing Notification"
  569. Ge0rG jonasw: Social Security Number. Bad thing.
  570. jonasw :>
  571. Dave Cridland But yeah, it seems likely that you'd use these as a "Wait one, I'm looking for the file on disk" as well as a "Pics or it didn't happen, eh? I'll show you."
  572. jonasw "hey, can you start sending SSNs to me, please?"
  573. Ge0rG LOL
  574. Dave Cridland Ge0rG, I think LOL has been taken.
  575. Ge0rG Dave Cridland: even in the context of XMPP.
  576. lnj FSN doesn't really miss the part of recording since I'd count the file creation to the process of "sharing"
  577. jonasw whatever works
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  579. Ge0rG I wish nobody had invented the MSN name, which is technically correct but misleading anyway.
  580. Dave Cridland lnj, And also, as I say, it doesn't matter very much. Any name is better than no name.
  581. lnj Ok :D
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  583. jonasw .oO(d***pic sharing notification) (probably only funny for those in conversations@)
  584. Ge0rG "Data Sharing Notification" would be a great fit for your idea, jonasw
  585. Ge0rG "BSN". Bike-Shedding Notification.
  586. jonasw Blob Sharing Notification
  587. Dave Cridland NCSN - Non Chat State Notification?
  588. jonasw hah
  589. Kev NTMSNA
  590. Kev NTMSNI
  591. Kev Not The MSN Initialism.
  592. Dave Cridland WCTOABA - We Couldn't Think Of A Better Acronym
  593. Ge0rG Dave Cridland: I'd like to have that for CSI instead.
  594. Dave Cridland But anyway, Dickpic Sharing Notification works fine for me.
  595. Dave Cridland Especially if its extensible enough to actually give me fair warning.
  596. jonasw lol
  597. Kev How extensible does it need to be?
  598. Dave Cridland Kev, Depends on how warm it is, surely?
  599. Ge0rG Now before anybody complains. I inherited the name "yet another xmpp instant messenger" together with the rotten code base.
  600. jonasw <uploading type='image' rating='adult' progress='half-up'/>?
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  602. Seve/SouL Hah, these guys...!
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  604. Ge0rG jonasw: we could wrap those into spoilers for adult content.
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  606. jonasw Ge0rG, smart
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  665. lnj jonasw, Now I probably also need a upload-cancelled status since the uploading status is independant of the chat states. (I can't only use <paused/>)
  666. jonasw lnj, indeed
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