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jonasw
where do clients get information like "inactive for N days" from?
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jonasw
is that XEP-0256?
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Ge0rG
I think daniel was consulting various resources.
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jonasw
a contact of mine claims I have been inactive for three days
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jonasw
it’s pidgin.
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jonasw
of course.
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jonasw
<query xmlns='jabber:iq:last' seconds='336148'/>
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jonasw
no idea why
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jonasw
I even reconnected in the meantime
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lnj
https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-July/035250.html jonasw, When using a different element for the uploading status, there's one concern I have: it's not backwards-compatible with old clients.
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jonasw
lnj, why not?
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jonasw
old clients will simply ignore it
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jonasw
and I don’t think there’s a way to make old clients understand that you’re uploading without adding a new element...
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lnj
Old clients would display at least "composing"
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jonasw
yes; you can achieve that by sending <uploading/> together with <composing/>.
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jonasw
like I suggested in the example
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lnj
ups ..
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lnj
haven't seen that
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lnj
Then it's definitely the better alternative
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jonasw
yeah, it allows to use those states independently of the current XEP-0085 state
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jonasw
which is nice
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jonasw
(it can even be used without XEP-0085 altogether)
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daniel
But will it be caught be csi? 🤔
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jonasw
beware though, I expect a whole lot of discussion when you propose this, since recently people discussed whether moving that type of stuff into (directed) presence isn’t more sensible ....
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Ge0rG
CSI and MAM need to be made aware of those new changes.
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Ge0rG
Currently, prosody's MAM will remove known-irrelevant elements from the message and check for emptiness in the end.
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Ge0rG
known-irrelevant is CSN
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jonasw
if only we had namespaced attributes
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daniel
Ge0rG: right. So that will land in mam and not be caught by csi
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jonasw
one could tack csi:require-push="true" on message-child-level elements or something
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lnj
Wouldn't it make sense to add a attribute (subelement) to indicate a message is not important and should be catched by CSI on the server
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daniel
Also beware the jingle circlejerk
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Ge0rG
lnj: IM 2.0 will solve all our problems.
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lnj
What's IM 2.0?
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jonasw
lnj, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0409.html
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Ge0rG
There is still https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/im-ng.html
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lnj
Isn't XEP-0409 only a replacement for carbons?
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jonasw
Ge0rG, eh.... that has been accepted as XEP-0409
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jonasw
lnj, it also affects MAM
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lnj
Ah ok
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Ge0rG
it doesn't even *replace* carbons ;)
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jonasw
Ge0rG, does it not?
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jonasw
> A client activating IM-NG MUST NOT also activate Carbons.
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jonasw
sounds very replacy to me
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Ge0rG
Hmyes.
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Ge0rG
Ignore everything I say.
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lnj
Would you accept Media Sharing Notifications (*MSN*) as XEP name? ;D
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jonasw
that sounds about right
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Ge0rG
that doesn't sound bad
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lnj
The abbrieviation is also good ...
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jonasw
yupp
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jonasw
I like it
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Ge0rG
I object.
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jonasw
lnj, if you need any editorial help, let me know.
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Ge0rG
MSN is already defined as multi-session-nicks in MUCs
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Ge0rG
-1 on formal grounds.
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jonasw
Ge0rG, so? that makes it a perfect fit.
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jonasw
(seriously though, I missed that and I think another name would be good)
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Ge0rG
jonasw: it's bad enough that we are abusing acronyms from pop culture and from older IM systems. We can't start abusing our own acronyms.
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Ge0rG
Media Upload Notifications maybe?
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jonasw
MUN, wfm
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jonasw
MTN would be good to (Transfer)
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lnj
jonasw: Currently everything's fine. My biggest problem are the quotes from plays of Shakespear.
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lnj
:D
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lnj
I'd take MTN
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Ge0rG
but it's not "transfer", it's "upload". If it were transfer, the receiver would be able to count bytes themselves.
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Ge0rG
Also, the HTTP library I'm using is incapable of providing a sane progress report.
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lnj
But actually there should also be notifications for the recording of audio/video, so Transfer and Upload both don't fit completely
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jonasw
lnj, hm, right
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Ge0rG
Call it "File Sharing Notification" FSN?
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lnj
That would be an option
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Ge0rG
"File" is old-school, but it nicely fits with CSN
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jonasw
that misses the recording stuff too
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Ge0rG
actually I'd like it to be `?SN`
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Dave Cridland
It's OK. Names don't have to make perfect sense, just enough that you can guess the scope and where to find the specification.
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jonasw
Ge0rG, "Stuff Sharing Notification"
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Ge0rG
jonasw: Social Security Number. Bad thing.
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jonasw
:>
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Dave Cridland
But yeah, it seems likely that you'd use these as a "Wait one, I'm looking for the file on disk" as well as a "Pics or it didn't happen, eh? I'll show you."
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jonasw
"hey, can you start sending SSNs to me, please?"
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Ge0rG
LOL
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Dave Cridland
Ge0rG, I think LOL has been taken.
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Ge0rG
Dave Cridland: even in the context of XMPP.
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lnj
FSN doesn't really miss the part of recording since I'd count the file creation to the process of "sharing"
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jonasw
whatever works
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Ge0rG
I wish nobody had invented the MSN name, which is technically correct but misleading anyway.
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Dave Cridland
lnj, And also, as I say, it doesn't matter very much. Any name is better than no name.
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lnj
Ok :D
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jonasw
.oO(d***pic sharing notification) (probably only funny for those in conversations@)
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Ge0rG
"Data Sharing Notification" would be a great fit for your idea, jonasw
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Ge0rG
"BSN". Bike-Shedding Notification.
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jonasw
Blob Sharing Notification
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Dave Cridland
NCSN - Non Chat State Notification?
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jonasw
hah
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Kev
NTMSNA
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Kev
NTMSNI
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Kev
Not The MSN Initialism.
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Dave Cridland
WCTOABA - We Couldn't Think Of A Better Acronym
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Ge0rG
Dave Cridland: I'd like to have that for CSI instead.
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Dave Cridland
But anyway, Dickpic Sharing Notification works fine for me.
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Dave Cridland
Especially if its extensible enough to actually give me fair warning.
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jonasw
lol
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Kev
How extensible does it need to be?
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Dave Cridland
Kev, Depends on how warm it is, surely?
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Ge0rG
Now before anybody complains. I inherited the name "yet another xmpp instant messenger" together with the rotten code base.
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jonasw
<uploading type='image' rating='adult' progress='half-up'/>?
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Seve/SouL
Hah, these guys...!
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Ge0rG
jonasw: we could wrap those into spoilers for adult content.
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jonasw
Ge0rG, smart
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lnj
jonasw, Now I probably also need a upload-cancelled status since the uploading status is independant of the chat states. (I can't only use <paused/>)
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jonasw
lnj, indeed