Thursday, July 26, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[12:34:09] <nyco> hey, test
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[12:36:32] <jonasw> hey
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[12:37:29] <nyco> hi board members (and every one else ;-) )
do we have our meeting today? that may be implicit, but has not been made explicit
last week, we had two apologies, but no-one showed up
this week, we have no apologies so far, but many are on holidays I presume
I'd like to jump on a call, so if no answer, I'll miss today's meeting, ok
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[13:31:38] <MattJ> I'm around
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[13:34:32] <MattJ> If people are on holidays, I'd rather that we explicitly skip the meetings in future
[13:34:43] <jonasw> +1 from the floor
[13:34:54] <jonasw> Guus has at least been around earlier today
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[13:44:51] <Guus> I apologised for a couple of weeks. 😀
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[13:45:42] <Guus> I'm here now by chance, but will drop in and out of WiFi.
[13:47:07] <jonasw> still on the trampoline?
[13:47:28] <jonasw> also, am I weird for first thinking about something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trampoline_(computing) when you mentioned it the other day? :/
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[13:49:15] <Guus> No, and yes. 😁
[13:49:28] <jonasw> damn
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[13:49:53] <Guus> But you're in good company here. 😉
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[16:13:17] <404.city> hey, test
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[16:19:12] <nyco> Error
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[18:15:35] <jonasw> so how is a client using a "conversations compatible" XEP-0066 annotaiton on URLs to know whether to attach the OOB tag or not?
[18:16:00] <jonasw> on desktop, there’s no such thing as "sharing" a link or medium, so we can’t know whether a link is supposed to be displayed inline or not
[18:16:28] <jonasw> just annotating all link-only posts makes conversations and dino show it as a shared file instead of a shared link (for non-image content)
[18:17:08] <Zash> What are you asking?
[18:17:38] <jonasw> "who is at fault" maybe
[18:17:52] <jonasw> currently, jabbercat annotates all URL-only messages with <{oob}x/>
[18:18:03] <Zash> That seems wrong
[18:18:04] <jonasw> this is confusing because conversations and dino display it as "Open File" instead of the bare link for HTML
[18:18:46] <Zash> I think you want provide a way for the user to show their intent. Just pasting a link should be just a link.
[18:18:58] <jonasw> hm
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[18:19:06] <jonasw> my intent is, whenever I paste an image, I want it inline
[18:19:09] <jonasw> or video
[18:19:10] <jonasw> or audio
[18:19:10] <Zash> /embed example.jpg
[18:19:15] <Link Mauve> This whole shared/not shared link is pretty dumb in the first place, imo.
[18:19:16] <jonasw> too complicated
[18:19:20] <jonasw> Link Mauve, I agree
[18:19:33] <jonasw> I think we should just ignore the oob thing and treat all links equally
[18:19:38] <jonasw> (which is what jabbercat does)
[18:20:13] <Link Mauve> I once started a Prosody module which a receiving client could ask for “what is this link?”, and get back what to do with it, without compromising the user’s IP.
[18:20:21] <Link Mauve> jonasw, that’s what we do in poezio too.
[18:20:28] <Link Mauve> Converse also does that.
[18:20:46] <jonasw> Link Mauve, ah, I want to write such a thing too
[18:21:04] <Link Mauve> I’m still unsure what the consequences may be for the server and for privacy.
[18:21:18] <jonasw> yeah, tricky
[18:21:28] <Link Mauve> Like, if you get an answer quickly it may mean someone else on this server asked for this URL recently.
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[18:24:22] <jonasw> also in encrypted conversations you can’t really do that
[18:24:51] <Link Mauve> Of course you can, if you do trust your server for instance.
[18:25:22] <Link Mauve> Even if I were to use some e2ee, I still trust my server and my client equally, so it wouldn’t be an issue.
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[18:25:34] <Link Mauve> Heck, I would even be fine with a Prosody implementation of e2ee. :D
[18:25:46] <jonasw> if you do trust your server, why are you using e2ee?
[18:26:06] <Zash> Why do people keep asking for e2ee?
[18:26:40] <Link Mauve> jonasw, because people seem to absolutely mandate it, or something.
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[18:27:56] <jonasw> I want a thing which terminates OMEMO on my server, actually.
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[18:28:01] <jonasw> that’s even better than trying to block it
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[18:28:11] <jonasw> can somebody do that pls
[18:28:31] <Zash> Like ye ol' mod_otr for ejabberd :)
[18:29:43] <jonasw> Link Mauve, I intended to use the URL lookup feature I built into my XMPP bot over at xmpp@. Make it a separate process, possibly even on a separate machine (reached via XMPP), very simple XML format to let the client request arbitrary URLs from the service. Like this just over XMPP: https://github.com/jabbercat/jabbercat/issues/102
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[18:33:34] <Link Mauve> Why in a separate process, rather than using Prosody’s async stuff?
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[18:34:04] <jonasw> isolation
[18:34:21] <jonasw> don’t want to take the server process down due to some html parsing gone rwong
[18:36:02] <Link Mauve> That should hopefully not happen.
[18:36:29] <jonasw> better safe than s orry
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[18:36:38] <jonasw> isolating this in another process doesn’t hurt
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[18:38:34] <Zash> component!
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[18:38:46] <jonasw> yeah
[18:38:49] <jonasw> or mod_client_proxy :)
[18:39:00] <jonasw> well, which is a component
[18:39:09] <Zash> or bot
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[18:39:39] <jonasw> hm, if I gave foorl some rate-limiting and an IQ interface, I could try doing that now-ish
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[18:41:52] <Zash> yeah
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[20:38:26] <edhelas> so Slack is buing Stride and Hipchat
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[20:38:32] <edhelas> https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/26/atlassians-hipchat-and-stride-to-be-discontinued-with-slack-buying-up-the-ip/
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[20:59:34] <Guus> I wonder if that affects Jitsi
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[21:07:48] <moparisthebest> I thought jitsi was atlassian?
[21:08:02] <moparisthebest> I can't keep up with it
[21:08:05] <Guus> It is
[21:08:50] <moparisthebest> Oh didn't notice hipchat was atlassian too
[21:09:07] <Guus> Right
[21:09:19] <moparisthebest> They want us to trial Microsoft teams at work
[21:09:58] <moparisthebest> I showed them inverse.chat and such but I guess it's not cool enough
[21:10:18] <moparisthebest> I suppose everything changing weekly will somehow be better
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[21:40:23] <Andrew Nenakhov> jonasw, btw we chose different approach to share files and use xep-0221 instead of 0066.
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[22:03:09] <Ge0rG> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17620543 what a heated discussion
[22:03:45] <Ge0rG> Where are the xmpp trolls? 😁
[22:04:47] <Andrew Nenakhov> Busy working on creating an xmpp based slack alternative. :-D
[22:05:32] <Ge0rG> I've been in an org recently who want to do agile and don't know what slack is
[22:06:44] <Andrew Nenakhov> To better understand what's good in it I tried to make part of my company use Slack.
[22:06:53] <Andrew Nenakhov> It never caught on.
[22:07:09] <Andrew Nenakhov> Despite explicit orders to use it for communication.
[22:08:07] <Andrew Nenakhov> Thing is we had a decent corporate xmpp server and all managers and designers didn't want to switch so they just found ways to still use jabber.
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[23:03:46] *** nyco has left the room
[23:03:52] *** nyco shows as "online"
[23:04:05] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[23:07:11] *** 404.city has left the room
[23:08:41] *** kasper.dement has left the room
[23:09:02] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[23:12:25] *** kasper.dement has joined the room
[23:13:09] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[23:14:09] *** Lance shows as "online"
[23:15:30] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[23:15:32] *** lumi shows as "online"
[23:17:11] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[23:17:11] *** Kev shows as "away"
[23:17:11] *** Kev shows as "away"
[23:17:15] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[23:17:17] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[23:22:23] *** anjan shows as "online"
[23:24:16] *** kasper.dement has joined the room
[23:25:38] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[23:25:40] *** lumi shows as "online"
[23:27:53] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[23:28:08] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[23:28:43] *** peter shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[23:29:44] *** Kev has left the room
[23:38:07] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[23:43:24] *** rishiraj22 has left the room
[23:43:27] *** rishiraj22 has joined the room
[23:46:03] *** Lance has left the room
[23:49:16] *** kasper.dement has joined the room
[23:52:40] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:52:52] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[23:56:18] *** peter shows as "online"
[23:59:11] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"