Tuesday, August 07, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[05:45:53] <flow> What is the rationle behind having xep368 throwing xmpp and xmpps SRV RRs into the same bucket anyway?
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[06:42:10] <edhelas> would it be possible to tune RSM to be able to retrieve content simply using page number and count ?
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[06:46:50] <jonasw> edhelas, by rewriting it to be something completely different, yeah
[06:47:04] <jonasw> (not saying that this wouldn’t be useful in some cases)
[06:47:16] <jonasw> hm
[06:47:38] <jonasw> edhelas, or, if a service offers this, it could have a query mode where <after/> and <before/> refer to indices instead of keys
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[06:48:04] <jonasw> actually nevermind
[06:48:07] <jonasw> edhelas, what is wrong with: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0059.html#jump
[06:48:11] <jonasw> that should be doing exactly what you want
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[06:48:22] <jonasw> multiply page size with number of page you want and you’re good to go
[06:48:34] <jonasw> multiply page size with number of page you want to calculate the index and you’re good to go
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[07:02:51] <flow> jonasw, what if a service choose to user a smaller page size as requested?
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[07:03:15] <flow> or is the page size locked in at size point?
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[07:04:49] <jonasw> flow, you can then request more pages until you’ve got the amount of items you want
[07:05:02] <jonasw> imagine a web view with a simple page number pagination
[07:05:25] <jonasw> if the user chooses 100 items per page, but the service only provides 20, you simply have to fire 5 queries to fill the view page
[07:05:51] <jonasw> so first RSM query woudl be with index=100*pagenumber, the subsequent four would be with <after/> based on the results of the respective previous query
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[07:27:20] <Holger> Index support is optional though (and typically expensive).
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[07:33:22] <jonasw> yupp
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[07:46:11] <edhelas> jonasw "simply have to query", well it's not that simple
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[07:46:45] <edhelas> this means that you kinda have to cache the items while their coming, be sure that no new items came in between
[07:47:15] <edhelas> having everything ready to handle the append of items, update the previous/next button to ensure that you can navigate to the other pages
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[07:47:57] <edhelas> and also you never know in advance what the server config is, so I cannot "prepare" my UI to request 25 items, the server can return 15 and I have to change my plans
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[07:52:13] <flow> edhelas, why not prepare the UI once you know how many items the page yielded?
[07:52:33] <flow> after all, the query itself could fail too
[07:55:05] <edhelas> so each time a user request a page, I need a first round to check then request the articles :)
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[07:57:58] <flow> edhelas, I was thinking more of: user action causes a new page request, issue the query, gather results, prepare UI
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[15:16:40] <edhelas> flow I have to see how I can refactor my flow to handle that more properly indeed
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[15:17:41] <edhelas> also I have to check how XMPP servers are handling that, ejabberd had RSM bugs a few months ago still, and I don't know how if Prosody and the others are implementing RSM
[15:18:05] <edhelas> a nice compliance test would also be really awesome to build
[15:18:16] <jonasw> the aioxmpp test suite starts to become something like that
[15:18:28] <edhelas> publish 100 items, request them in many different way to see if they are consistant
[15:18:37] *** UsL shows as "online"
[15:19:13] <Ge0rG> publish a message archive, join a MIX, check if history replay works
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[19:18:17] <edhelas> disco items for a pubsub node with RSM, what do you think about it ?
[19:18:31] <edhelas> or for any services basically
[19:20:17] <jonasw> edhelas, isn’t that even a suggestion in XEP-0059?
[19:20:23] <jonasw> makes sense to have
[19:20:55] <edhelas> then ordering is also important
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[19:21:14] <edhelas> I'd like to ensure for Pubsub to disco the items based on the most recent first
[19:21:14] *** lumi shows as "online"
[19:21:25] <edhelas> (then I don't have to resolve the payload each time)
[19:21:28] <jonasw> define most recent
[19:21:43] <jonasw> most rcent isn’t a suitable key for RSM
[19:21:46] <edhelas> well based of the "recent" definition in 0060 :p
[19:22:02] <edhelas> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#subscriber-retrieve-requestrecent
[19:22:09] <jonasw> an RSM key (for use with <before/> and <after/>) must be an immutable property of the items which are enumerated
[19:22:22] <jonasw> edhelas, eh, that’s for a node, not for a service
[19:22:57] <edhelas> yes but the disco#items of a pubsub node should behave the same as a service afaik
[19:23:30] <edhelas> or we have to specify that for a service it behave in a specific manner, alphabetically for example
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[19:24:03] <edhelas> but the XMPP server need to order by something before doing the limit/offset (for a SQL database)
[19:24:33] <edhelas> and this need to be consistent between the XMPP servers, if not I can't rely on using disco#items with RSM in my client
[19:25:05] <edhelas> (except by requesting everything and order the result locally…)
[19:26:32] <jonasw> that’s what you have to do anyways
[19:26:55] <jonasw> because in very few cases your users will want to sort by the name (as in, the @node value, not the @name) of the node
[19:27:33] <edhelas> pubsub nodes can have hundreds of items, conference services thousands of rooms
[19:27:39] <jonasw> yes
[19:27:47] <jonasw> and sorting with RSM can only happen by primary keys
[19:27:53] <edhelas> and the info is actually available on the xmpp server to sort a bit the things
[19:27:56] <jonasw> (or unique, immutable keys at least)
[19:28:12] <jonasw> or it is going to be rather expensive
[19:28:27] <jonasw> <!-- disregard -->
[19:30:08] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
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[21:29:49] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:29:49] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:32:19] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[21:33:58] *** js shows as "away" and his status message is "Abwesend"
[21:34:17] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
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