Wednesday, August 08, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[00:15:48] <moparisthebest> flow: the idea behind xmpp and xmpps in the same bucket is to allow server admins to define priority+weight between them
[00:16:19] <moparisthebest> In practice you can do whatever
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[03:29:00] <SamWhited> It should probably not be a 'should' then. I don't understand why server admins would ever want to do that
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[06:55:47] <flow> moparisthebest, I get that, but why should server admins want that?
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[06:58:08] <flow> FWIW, i've recently implemented "multiple SRV service/proto ordering" in MiniDNS. But I still haven't heard a reason why the XEP specifies it
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[08:06:52] <edhelas> another question related to RSM, because it's not clear to me
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0059.html#jump, the <index>, it's starting from the end of the results (for MAM the older messages) or the beginning (the most recent) ?
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[08:07:49] <edhelas> > It does that by including in its request the index of the first item to be returned
I seems to be from the beginning
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[08:09:45] <jonasw> edhelas, the index zero refers to the first item in the full query reuslt
[08:10:22] <edhelas> so for MAM it's starting from the oldest messages, and for a Pubsub node starting from the most recent
[08:10:34] <jonasw> maybe
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[08:12:55] <goffi> edhelas: I have no time to check right now (I'm at work), but I think I've experienced some inconsistencies on your blogs posts on ejabberd, and on mine with SàT Pubsub. I wanted to check that before reporting it (I'm not sure who's wrong), but the result is that when I use RSM I get oldest publications from your node.
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[08:13:41] <edhelas> ok so there's definitly unclear things in the XEPs
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[08:14:17] <goffi> not sure if it's in the XEP on just an implementation bug, I'll definitely have to check that this week, and I'll check with you then.
[08:14:39] <goffi> but right now I can't
[08:15:05] <edhelas> to me Pubsub node always list items from the most recent to the oldest, with RSM the <index> is then starting from the most recent (order by created_at desc offset :index)
[08:15:26] <edhelas> for MAM it seems (but again I'm not sure) to be the opposite
[08:15:27] <goffi> I kind of remember having asked something about that at a XMPP summit also
[08:15:41] <edhelas> ejabberd implements RSM for Pubsub but not MAM from what Holger told me
[08:15:58] <goffi> SàT Pubsub implements both
[08:16:10] <MattJ> What?
[08:16:32] <MattJ> RSM is required for MAM, it's not required for pubsub
[08:16:57] <edhelas> MattJ sorry, I was talking about the <index> option only
[08:17:16] <MattJ> Oh, ok
[08:17:27] <edhelas> ejabberd does supports RSM for MAM but not the <index> parameter :)
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[08:18:46] <edhelas> MattJ but I'm curious to know your point of view regarding this ordering thing between Pubsub items and MAM messages
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[08:21:18] <MattJ> I'm considering an order parameter in MAM anyway
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[08:27:10] <edhelas> I think it would be the best :)
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[08:30:08] <goffi> edhelas: http://jabber.996255.n3.nabble.com/XEP-0313-why-it-is-really-not-a-good-idea-to-use-MAM-with-Pubsub-td36116.html ==> I have mentioned chronological issue there.
[08:30:37] <MattJ> Oh, is this about Pubsub + MAM + RSM?
[08:30:42] <edhelas> no
[08:30:43] <MattJ> Or just Pubsub + RSM?
[08:30:50] <edhelas> for me it was just Pubsub + RSM
[08:30:57] <edhelas> but MAM + RSM + Pubsub is another issue
[08:30:58] <MattJ> Ok, good
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[09:43:45] <goffi> I do use MAM + RSM + Pubsub
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[23:56:16] <pep.> The following might be worth watching, to apply to the XMPP community:
https://debconf18.debconf.org/talks/9-ignoring-negativity/
https://debconf18.debconf.org/talks/174-ignoring-negativity-followup/
"Dealing with negativity in [large] projects"
[23:56:41] <pep.> (or any big enough community, for that matter)
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