XSF Discussion - 2018-08-09


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  110. Seve/SouL Thanks for sharing pep. I will take a look
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  112. jonasw meh videos
  113. flow my thought exactly
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  115. Seve/SouL I guess it's more 'sound' than video :)
  116. Seve/SouL But I understand
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  119. jonasw I’d love to skim it to gauge applicability/interest :(
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  182. pep. jonasw: so much negativity ;)
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  242. pep. jonaws, I've got text notes here for you: https://bpaste.net/raw/6e36088b2615
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  345. Guus Board o'clock
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  348. Guus No MattJ today, nor Nyco. RalphM, Martin?
  349. nyco so finally, I can make it
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  351. Guus 🙂
  352. Guus seems to be just you and me though
  353. nyco what's the timeout value? 10 minutes? 😉
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  355. MattJ I'm kinda here, but can't promise I won't need to disappear
  356. MattJ And I'm multitasking
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  358. nyco so, do we do that meeting?
  359. nyco if MattJ is half here, then we are 2.5, is that a quorum? 😉
  360. Guus Let's skip until next week, unless someone wants to address something urgently
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  362. nyco next week, I'll a very constrained bandwidth, I think I'll have to skip it
  363. nyco I'll know better on Wednesday
  364. Martin Guus: I am not the xsf Martin 😉
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  368. Guus Martin, I know, but I'm not aware of XSF's Martins other nickname 🙂
  369. Guus nyco, ok, please let us know
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  371. Guus doesn't seem that there's much interest in continuing today
  372. nyco yep
  373. nyco thx
  374. Guus until we meet again!
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  398. edhelas https://drewdevault.com/2018/08/08/Signal.html
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  429. jonasw okay wat
  430. jonasw something is kaputt
  431. jonasw I can’t access that, and I can’t access stackoverflow.
  432. Ge0rG jonasw: your internet is b0rked!
  433. jonasw yes, but why
  434. jonasw it is not DNS
  435. edhelas jonasw did you tried HTTP over XMPP ?
  436. jonasw edhelas, no
  437. jonasw IPv4 seems to be kaputt
  438. edhelas IPv6 is the new IPv4
  439. jonasw and the v6 of drewdevault.com is kaputt
  440. jonasw that explains it
  441. jonasw gonna reboot the router thing
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  443. jonasw odd
  444. jonasw also interesting how long I didn’t notice that v4 was b0rked
  445. edhelas it's maybe a good thing
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  447. Ge0rG > Last time I've tried Matrix (this spring) with a group of peers, my E2E rooms were full of random "failed to decrypt" and lots of out-of-band communications "hey, are my messages working for you today?" I'm glad Matrix is having the same issues as XMPP with E2EE
  448. jonasw :)
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  451. moparisthebest What issues does XMPP have with it? :)
  452. jonasw moparisthebest, talk to the folks who regularly get OMEMO errors.
  453. moparisthebest Seriously though, for normal users who only have a phone it works flawlessly
  454. Ge0rG I sent you an OMEMO encrypted message but your client doesn’t seem to support that. Find more information on https://conversations.im/omemo
  455. jonasw I sent you an OMEMO encrypted message but your client doesn’t seem to support that. Find more information on https://conversations.im/omemo
  456. moparisthebest jonasw: likely only advanced users who like to flip knobs in advanced settings and try a lot of clients
  457. moparisthebest Ie, most people here, but no normal people
  458. Ge0rG moparisthebest: or people who try to configure a private MUC
  459. jonasw moparisthebest, we have fairly normal people around at xmpp@ who have (likely) OMEMO issues they just.can’t.solve, and thanks to the huge amount of moving parts which are required for OMEMO support, it’s impossible to debug
  460. jonasw because they’re not technical people and getting usable logs is ~impossible.
  461. jonasw also because they’re not technical people and getting usable logs is ~impossible.
  462. jonasw but mostly because even when you get logs, it ends up with "eeehh... yeah, no idea"
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  464. Ge0rG Somebody should make a "Why am I losing messages in XMPP?" flowchart
  465. jonasw sounds like a plan
  466. moparisthebest I installed conversations on my Mom's phone years ago and she's never had issues, and you've never met a more technology incompetent person
  467. Ge0rG moparisthebest: did she ever *create* a private MUC?
  468. jonasw is s2s involved?
  469. moparisthebest She doesn't even know what words like omemo or xmpp are, it's just how she messages family, and it *just works*
  470. moparisthebest No on creating private muc
  471. Ge0rG moparisthebest: see!
  472. moparisthebest No s2s but that's not really a client concern anyway
  473. jonasw moparisthebest, nobody said anything about "client" concerns only
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  475. Link Mauve moparisthebest, when my father upgraded to some version of Conversations, he couldn’t even talk to me anymore because it was telling him I don’t have any OMEMO key, and he obviously didn’t read the error message and just assumed “it” stopped working.
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  477. Link Mauve He’s not totally illiterate, but he still doesn’t read error messages.
  478. moparisthebest That's also probably not the best error message if you don't know what omemo is
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  480. moparisthebest Was that because the default changed to omemo and you don't use it?
  481. moparisthebest Cause that dialog has been improved a lot
  482. moparisthebest https://burtrum.org/up/dbce0222-f2f1-48b2-bcc7-b35f5b0c55a0/IJ5QOl5mQsyOdwogck45XA.jpg
  483. Link Mauve moparisthebest, maybe, since then I went on holiday at his place and switched this tab to no encryption, he’s using the same server as mine anyway.
  484. moparisthebest That's what it looks like now, sending to a user named 'test'
  485. Link Mauve moparisthebest, see, faced with such a dialog the only thing he would do would be to click Cancel.
  486. Link Mauve And then try again three or four times before giving up.
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  488. Ge0rG My father is using all the evil chat systems.
  489. moparisthebest That's fair, I'm not a UI guy but it could be improved
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  503. pep. edhelas, thas drewdevault guy is.. interesting. I know him from Sway (compositor)
  504. pep. edhelas, that drewdevault guy is.. interesting. I know him from Sway (compositor)
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  510. pep. edhelas, I'd be interested to hear his opinions about XMPP, seeing that he recommends matrix and tox :)
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  528. Ge0rG pep.: on HN he wrote that he didn't evaluate any other chat systems besides of matrix and signal
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  755. Syndace If conversations does not even find a device list, then how the f* does it encrypt messages?
  756. Syndace What the hell is "we can't encrypt, there is no way. Keep on encrypting?"
  757. Syndace ???
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  760. moparisthebest Syndace: it gives you the option to disable it, what else could it do?
  761. moparisthebest Can't silently fall back to unencrypted, this ain't email