Wednesday, August 22, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[00:36:22] <pep.> RFC6120, 7.6.1
> Once the server has generated an XMPP resourcepart for the client, it MUST return an IQ stanza of type "result" to the client, which MUST include a <jid/> child element that specifies the full JID for the connected resource as determined by the server.
From what I understand, we generally assume that the resource can be forcibly assigned by the server. Does this sentence also mean any other part of the JID can be rewritten? (localpart, domain)
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[01:51:34] <moparisthebest> New messenger, LAN only, https://github.com/dakhnod/Meshenger
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[06:12:04] <Maranda> pep.: I *don't think so*. Host at least has to honour the stream to attribute.
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[06:12:37] <jonasw> pep., yes, it can
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[06:13:08] <jonasw> pep., before binding, there’s not really a JID anyway
[06:13:16] <jonasw> there’s just the SASL identity, and that doesn’t have to match the JID
[06:13:25] <jonasw> everything else (like stream @to) is just informational
[06:14:18] <jonasw> pep., there was a prosody module which would integrate with some forum software, and it would create a JID which didn’t match the SASL identity (based on the forum username) if the SASL identity contained stuff which wasn’t allowde in the JID
[06:16:12] <Maranda> I'd like to actually see a server that dishes out a different host in the jid than the one you opened a stream to c2s wise
[06:16:31] *Maranda thinks he *won't*
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[06:18:09] <jonasw> the host will probably stay what the client expects it to be, indeed
[06:18:18] <jonasw> not that it really matters
[06:19:41] <jonasw> (I also confused stream @to and @from)
[06:20:06] <jonasw> (@to isn’t quite that informational given that it’s used for TLS already)
[06:23:15] <Maranda> Aaaand I need cooooffeeee ☕
[06:23:25] <Zash> Maranda: The hosted GTalk thing would assign you a different host IIRC
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[06:26:00] <Maranda> Zash: Huhu, I recall it opening s2s streams with no to or from and expecting those to be set from dialback. But that one sounds more hilarious
[06:26:18] <Zash> On c2s tho
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[06:27:48] <Maranda> Yeah but me think clients would tell it where they're opening a stream to in that case 😆
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[09:43:22] <Link Mauve> Could that mechanism be used for JID aliases?
[09:43:47] <Link Mauve> As a neat upgrade mechanism when for instance a provider upgrades from example.com to example.org?
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[10:44:52] <Maranda> Wasn't there some 301 xmpp version proposal as opposed to that?
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[10:46:00] <jonasw> Link Mauve, the main issue with changing domains isn’t the local, but the remote side
[10:46:07] <Maranda> Or rather make that "a xmpp version of status code 301"
[10:46:45] *Maranda coughs lingua matrix failure 😞
[10:47:59] <Link Mauve> jonasw, sure, but when you did migrate your domain (I remember pep. having to do that), it makes it transparent for your users.
[10:48:15] <jonasw> Link Mauve, how is it going to be transparent when all the remote roster entries are borked?
[10:48:16] <pep.> Yeah, at least you don't have to have a flag day
[10:48:21] <Link Mauve> In a company, where you are already using shared groups and mostly communicating locally, it does make sense.
[10:48:25] <jonasw> right
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[10:48:48] <jonasw> Link Mauve, rewriting the bare JID could be a helper, but I think there’s a stream error for it
[10:48:50] <pep.> You will indeed still need that flag day when actually switching the actual account
[10:49:50] *Maranda thinks something like "Resource Moved Permanently" is far more trasparent and less clunky
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[10:50:58] <Maranda> Than tellin' someone his jid magically changed when he/she binds a resource...
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[10:53:13] <pep.> What I meant above would have been the opposite really. "you can use your new _credentials_, but for now it'll still bind to the same old jid"
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[10:55:58] <Maranda> I'm pretty sure at least 95% of the clients out there would start coughing blood if there's a change to either the node or the host portion of a jid they don't expect anyways
[10:56:46] <ralphm> When I was working on XMPP (PubSub) based federation for social networking sites, we had full movability of objects. Something would move to a different site and we'd send a node deletion notification with <redirect/> element pointing to the new place.
[10:56:47] <pep.> It's not like it was explicitely forbidden, nor really specified by the RFC either. Send an errata?
[10:57:39] <ralphm> You can do something similar with the "gone" stanza error. It also has a way to specify the new location by putting a URI in the element.
[10:58:18] <ralphm> If somebody retrieves his roster, the server will send out presence probes. If the remote server responds with "gone" it could rewrite the roster item.
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[10:58:24] <pep.> also <moved/>
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[10:58:43] <ralphm> There's no <moved/> stanza error
[10:58:49] <daniel> Conversations will happily change the jid and use that for subsequent logins. Which in turn can be a problem some times. For example OpenFire will let you specify a jid like username@ip and on bind it gets changed to username@domain but domain won't resolve properly
[10:58:52] <pep.> -xep moved
[10:58:57] <pep.> bunneh!!
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[10:59:09] <Maranda> ralphm: that's for far better than what mentioned by others ☺️
[10:59:10] <pep.> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0283.html
[10:59:29] <Maranda> That's for sure*
[10:59:36] <pep.> But I don't like the bits in the security considerations, that defeats the point of the XEP
[10:59:39] <Maranda> Damn auto correction
[10:59:42] <daniel> Or they are other weird and broken servers that use something like email@domain to login and then change the jid on bind to username@domain. And then subsequent logins don't work
[10:59:45] <pep.> And I don't think it's much of an issue
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[10:59:54] <ralphm> Maranda: thanks, there's a reason this stuff is there to begin with :-D
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[11:01:28] <ralphm> pep.: ah yeah, I forgot about that one. I don't think (now) that this XEP is needed. What does it do better than "gone"?
[11:01:36] *Maranda thinks he tried to desperately mention "301", "Moved Permanently" keywords for a few minutes to no avail also 😆🤸‍♂️
[11:01:47] <Maranda> 🤷‍♂️
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[11:02:48] <pep.> ralphm, with <gone/> you need to keep track of what's gone where. With moved it's a client thing, the account can be tombstoned or deleted
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[11:03:22] <pep.> Only works for roster though
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[11:06:29] <ralphm> yeah
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[15:57:14] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min) (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:59:08] *** marc has joined the room
[16:00:00] *** waqas has joined the room
[16:00:30] *** ralphm shows as "online" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:05:38] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min) (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:09:17] *** 404.city shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:12:28] *** ralphm shows as "online" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:12:37] *** mikaela has left the room
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[16:17:31] *** l shows as "online"
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[16:17:36] *** l shows as "online"
[16:19:17] *** 404.city shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:19:31] *** Maranda has left the room
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[16:23:52] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min) (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:28:37] *** 404.city shows as "online"
[16:36:14] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:36:52] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min) (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:40:11] *** Kev has left the room
[16:40:51] *** Valerian has left the room
[16:40:55] *** tux shows as "online"
[16:41:13] *** Valerian has joined the room
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[16:41:40] *** Valerian has joined the room
[16:42:13] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[16:42:24] *** Valerian has left the room
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[16:42:57] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[16:43:11] *** Valerian has left the room
[16:43:13] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[16:43:13] *** rion shows as "online"
[16:43:19] *** Valerian has joined the room
[16:43:29] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:43:53] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:43:57] *** Valerian has left the room
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[16:50:20] *** marc has left the room
[16:50:51] *** 404.city has left the room
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[16:53:44] *** McKael shows as "online"
[16:54:01] *** Valerian has joined the room
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[16:58:13] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:00:39] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[17:04:11] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[17:06:24] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[17:07:05] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[17:14:07] *** jubalh shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:16:35] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[17:19:33] *** ThibG has left the room
[17:19:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:19:51] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
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[17:21:52] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[17:22:39] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[17:23:42] *** McKael shows as "online"
[17:27:49] *** Valerian has left the room
[17:27:52] *** Valerian has joined the room
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[17:30:55] *** Valerian has left the room
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[17:31:32] *** SamWhited has left the room
[17:31:41] *** Valerian has left the room
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[17:32:32] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[17:33:53] *** Zash shows as "online"
[17:34:30] *** j.r has joined the room
[17:37:19] *** Kev has joined the room
[17:37:23] *** Kev shows as "online"
[17:37:44] *** Kev has left the room
[17:38:00] *** SamWhited has left the room
[17:38:43] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[17:40:40] *** j.r has joined the room
[17:41:08] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[17:44:50] *** Zash shows as "online"
[17:46:35] *** dos has left the room
[17:46:53] *** dos has joined the room
[17:48:38] *** Zash has left the room
[17:49:02] *** lovetox shows as "online"
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[17:52:46] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[17:53:39] *** Seve/SouL has joined the room
[17:53:44] *** Zash shows as "online"
[17:53:50] *** Zash shows as "online"
[17:54:21] *** jubalh shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:54:31] *** Nekit has left the room
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[17:59:13] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[17:59:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:59:23] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:03:50] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[18:03:54] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[18:04:23] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[18:04:23] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[18:08:08] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[18:09:20] *** jubalh shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:14:35] *** bjc has joined the room
[18:18:13] *** Yagiza has left the room
[18:19:19] *** jubalh shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:20:57] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[18:22:41] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[18:24:25] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[18:24:32] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[18:25:00] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[18:31:01] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[18:31:03] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[18:31:05] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[18:31:37] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[18:33:31] *** Zash has left the room
[18:33:31] *** Zash has left the room
[18:33:34] *** Zash has joined the room
[18:33:45] *** Zash has left the room
[18:33:49] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[18:33:50] *** Zash has joined the room
[18:33:55] *** Zash shows as "online"
[18:34:05] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:36:31] *** winfried shows as "online"
[18:36:50] *** Chobbes has joined the room
[18:36:58] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[18:37:11] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[18:37:12] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[18:37:32] *** winfried has left the room
[18:39:12] *** Tobias has left the room
[18:40:15] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[18:40:50] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[18:40:52] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[18:46:22] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[18:46:33] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[18:52:03] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[18:52:41] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[18:55:46] *** dos has left the room
[18:55:53] *** dos has joined the room
[18:58:03] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[19:00:05] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[19:00:34] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[19:01:23] *** karp has joined the room
[19:02:33] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[19:05:15] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[19:08:11] *** dos has left the room
[19:08:16] *** dos has joined the room
[19:10:19] *** lskdjf has left the room
[19:10:20] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[19:11:10] *** waqas has left the room
[19:12:07] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:12:10] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[19:12:34] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:12:39] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[19:14:53] *** waqas has joined the room
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[19:18:27] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[19:20:39] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
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[19:24:10] *** dos has joined the room
[19:26:03] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[19:26:31] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
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[19:27:14] *** pep. has left the room
[19:27:54] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
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[19:28:13] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[19:28:40] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:28:41] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
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[19:31:20] *** lskdjf has left the room
[19:31:21] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[19:32:32] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[19:33:25] *** dos has joined the room
[19:33:30] *** ralphm shows as "online" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:33:40] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:36:03] *** dos has left the room
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[19:43:57] *** dos has left the room
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[19:44:29] *** dos has left the room
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[19:45:57] *** dos has left the room
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[19:51:33] *** dos has left the room
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[19:54:59] *** dos has left the room
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[19:58:14] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[20:01:52] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[20:04:19] *** MbJ3 has left the room
[20:04:42] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[20:05:23] *** Alex has joined the room
[20:12:44] *** ThibG has left the room
[20:12:51] *** ThibG has joined the room
[20:16:09] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[20:16:11] *** rion shows as "online"
[20:18:14] *** rion shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[20:20:46] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:20:47] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[20:21:22] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[20:21:30] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:21:34] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[20:24:46] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[20:24:50] *** rion has left the room
[20:24:50] *** rion shows as "online"
[20:26:30] *** jubalh has joined the room
[20:28:31] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[20:32:31] *** tux has left the room
[20:34:05] *** lumi shows as "online"
[20:34:22] *** bjc has left the room
[20:37:03] *** lumi has left the room
[20:37:38] *** lumi has joined the room
[20:37:45] *** lumi has left the room
[20:40:03] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[20:40:31] *** marc has left the room
[20:40:59] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[20:43:57] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[20:44:16] *** lnj has left the room
[20:44:30] *** McKael shows as "online"
[20:45:08] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[20:48:10] *** rion has left the room
[20:48:13] *** rion shows as "online"
[20:48:46] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[20:48:46] *** l shows as "online"
[20:48:53] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[20:48:53] *** l shows as "online"
[20:51:24] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[20:59:35] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[20:59:51] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[21:01:48] *** blabla has joined the room
[21:03:56] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[21:04:21] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[21:07:52] *** blabla has left the room
[21:08:29] *** j.r has joined the room
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[21:11:54] *** Guus has left the room
[21:12:04] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:15:49] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:16:26] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[21:18:04] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[21:18:14] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[21:19:04] *** anjan shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:22:32] *** anjan shows as "online"
[21:23:37] *** j.r has joined the room
[21:29:10] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[21:31:36] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[21:32:06] *** anjan shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:33:01] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[21:33:18] *** anjan shows as "online"
[21:36:26] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[21:37:08] *** Zash has left the room
[21:37:17] *** Maranda has left the room
[21:49:19] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:49:19] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[21:49:57] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:50:02] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[21:51:02] *** Syndace has left the room
[21:51:04] *** Syndace has joined the room
[21:51:28] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:51:29] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[21:52:13] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:52:14] *** rion has left the room
[21:52:14] *** rion shows as "online"
[21:52:20] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[21:52:47] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:57:22] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[21:59:23] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:00:36] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
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[22:04:46] *** lovetox has left the room
[22:04:55] *** rion has left the room
[22:09:34] *** mikaela has joined the room
[22:10:09] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[22:10:33] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[22:11:50] *** Syndace has left the room
[22:11:52] *** Syndace has joined the room
[22:17:44] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:18:45] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[22:19:40] *** thorsten has left the room
[22:19:53] *** thorsten has joined the room
[22:23:30] *** j.r has joined the room
[22:27:16] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:38:18] *** j.r has left the room
[22:38:29] *** j.r has joined the room
[22:38:53] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[22:40:04] *** anjan shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:42:12] *** mikaela has left the room
[22:42:43] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[22:46:27] *** dos has left the room
[22:46:34] *** dos has joined the room
[22:48:11] *** anjan has left the room
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[22:53:48] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:53:50] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[22:54:23] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:54:28] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[22:57:52] *** peter has joined the room
[23:02:48] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[23:02:54] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[23:05:22] *** SamWhited has left the room
[23:10:16] *** peter has left the room
[23:11:24] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:11:24] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[23:12:01] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:12:08] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[23:12:39] *** Alex has left the room
[23:18:20] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[23:24:59] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:24:59] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[23:26:17] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[23:26:18] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[23:28:39] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:28:40] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:28:42] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:28:53] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:29:17] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:33:54] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[23:35:12] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[23:35:43] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[23:40:29] *** dos has left the room
[23:40:31] *** dos has joined the room
[23:43:35] *** l has left the room
[23:43:38] *** l has joined the room
[23:59:47] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:59:50] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room