XSF Discussion - 2018-08-29


  1. Dave Cridland has left
  2. Dave Cridland has joined
  3. Dave Cridland has left
  4. Dave Cridland has joined
  5. jjrh has left
  6. thorsten has left
  7. j.r has joined
  8. j.r has joined
  9. apach has left
  10. Dave Cridland has left
  11. Dave Cridland has joined
  12. thorsten has left
  13. Dave Cridland has left
  14. Dave Cridland has joined
  15. peter has left
  16. mimi89999 has joined
  17. mimi89999 has joined
  18. thorsten has left
  19. apach has left
  20. !XSF_Martin has left
  21. !XSF_Martin has joined
  22. Dave Cridland has left
  23. Dave Cridland has joined
  24. Dave Cridland has left
  25. Dave Cridland has joined
  26. daniel has left
  27. daniel has joined
  28. thorsten has left
  29. apach has left
  30. mrdoctorwho has joined
  31. Dave Cridland has left
  32. Dave Cridland has joined
  33. Dave Cridland has left
  34. Dave Cridland has joined
  35. Yagiza has joined
  36. thorsten has left
  37. apach has left
  38. Dave Cridland has left
  39. Dave Cridland has joined
  40. Dave Cridland has left
  41. Dave Cridland has joined
  42. thorsten has left
  43. jjrh has left
  44. apach has left
  45. Dave Cridland has left
  46. Dave Cridland has joined
  47. Dave Cridland has left
  48. Dave Cridland has joined
  49. MbJ3 has joined
  50. MbJ3 has joined
  51. thorsten has left
  52. apach has left
  53. Dave Cridland has left
  54. Dave Cridland has joined
  55. Dave Cridland has left
  56. Dave Cridland has joined
  57. thorsten has left
  58. jjrh has left
  59. apach has left
  60. Dave Cridland has left
  61. Dave Cridland has joined
  62. thorsten has left
  63. ta has joined
  64. jjrh has left
  65. jjrh has left
  66. Dave Cridland has left
  67. Dave Cridland has joined
  68. Dave Cridland has left
  69. Dave Cridland has joined
  70. Nekit has joined
  71. lorddavidiii has joined
  72. Dave Cridland has left
  73. Dave Cridland has joined
  74. Dave Cridland has left
  75. Dave Cridland has joined
  76. lnj has joined
  77. apach has left
  78. Dave Cridland has left
  79. Dave Cridland has joined
  80. Dave Cridland has left
  81. Dave Cridland has joined
  82. thorsten has left
  83. moparisthebest has left
  84. j.r has left
  85. j.r has joined
  86. Kev has left
  87. Kev has left
  88. Dave Cridland has left
  89. Dave Cridland has joined
  90. Dave Cridland has left
  91. Dave Cridland has joined
  92. j.r has left
  93. j.r has joined
  94. Tobias has left
  95. Tobias has joined
  96. 404.city has joined
  97. ta has left
  98. apach has left
  99. ludo has joined
  100. daniel has left
  101. daniel has joined
  102. Dave Cridland has left
  103. Dave Cridland has joined
  104. Dave Cridland has left
  105. Dave Cridland has joined
  106. andy has joined
  107. marc has left
  108. lorddavidiii has left
  109. Guus has left
  110. Guus has joined
  111. Dave Cridland has left
  112. Dave Cridland has joined
  113. Dave Cridland has left
  114. Dave Cridland has joined
  115. lorddavidiii has joined
  116. labdsf has left
  117. j.r has left
  118. j.r has joined
  119. Nekit has left
  120. ludo has left
  121. Nekit has joined
  122. Dave Cridland has left
  123. Dave Cridland has joined
  124. Dave Cridland has left
  125. rion has left
  126. Dave Cridland has joined
  127. apach has left
  128. Zash has left
  129. mrdoctorwho has joined
  130. Dave Cridland has left
  131. goffi has joined
  132. Zash has left
  133. blabla has left
  134. blabla has joined
  135. Ge0rG has joined
  136. xnyhps has joined
  137. j.r has joined
  138. xnyhps has joined
  139. j.r has joined
  140. thorsten has left
  141. Alex has joined
  142. valo has left
  143. Dave Cridland has left
  144. Dave Cridland has joined
  145. Dave Cridland has left
  146. Dave Cridland has joined
  147. Guus has left
  148. Guus has joined
  149. Guus has left
  150. waqas has left
  151. ta has joined
  152. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  153. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  154. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  155. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  156. moparisthebest has joined
  157. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  158. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  159. moparisthebest has joined
  160. apach has left
  161. ralphm has joined
  162. Dave Cridland has left
  163. Dave Cridland has joined
  164. Dave Cridland has left
  165. Dave Cridland has joined
  166. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  167. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  168. karp has left
  169. karp has joined
  170. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  171. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  172. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  173. Maranda has left
  174. Maranda has joined
  175. labdsf has joined
  176. thorsten has left
  177. l has joined
  178. Guus has joined
  179. karp has left
  180. karp has joined
  181. karp has left
  182. karp has joined
  183. j.r has joined
  184. mimi89999 has joined
  185. karp has left
  186. karp has joined
  187. mimi89999 has joined
  188. Dave Cridland has left
  189. Dave Cridland has joined
  190. Alex has left
  191. Alex has joined
  192. karp has left
  193. karp has joined
  194. Seve Listen to how XMPP is pronounced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz0yDNwEydU&feature=youtu.be&t=495 It's like a message from God! :D
  195. Steve Kille has left
  196. Steve Kille has left
  197. l has left
  198. l has joined
  199. thorsten has left
  200. Steve Kille has left
  201. Dave Cridland has left
  202. Dave Cridland has left
  203. lskdjf has joined
  204. Dave Cridland has left
  205. Dave Cridland has joined
  206. cookie has left
  207. thorsten has left
  208. cookie has joined
  209. 404.city has left
  210. thorsten has left
  211. Dave Cridland has left
  212. Dave Cridland has joined
  213. j.r has joined
  214. lskdjf has left
  215. !XSF_Martin has joined
  216. Dave Cridland has left
  217. edhelas èxèmpaÿpeÿ
  218. l has joined
  219. l has joined
  220. j.r has left
  221. j.r has joined
  222. !XSF_Martin has joined
  223. Dave Cridland has left
  224. daniel has left
  225. Dave Cridland has left
  226. Dave Cridland has joined
  227. daniel has joined
  228. thorsten has left
  229. labdsf has left
  230. labdsf has joined
  231. Syndace has joined
  232. Syndace has joined
  233. Dave Cridland has left
  234. Dave Cridland has joined
  235. Dave Cridland has left
  236. Dave Cridland has left
  237. Dave Cridland has left
  238. thorsten has left
  239. valo has joined
  240. Valerian has joined
  241. Valerian has left
  242. Valerian has joined
  243. vanitasvitae has left
  244. lskdjf has left
  245. lumi has joined
  246. lskdjf has left
  247. lskdjf has left
  248. ludo has joined
  249. Valerian has left
  250. Guus has left
  251. l has left
  252. Dave Cridland has left
  253. Dave Cridland has joined
  254. vanitasvitae has left
  255. xnyhps has joined
  256. xnyhps has joined
  257. xnyhps has left
  258. xnyhps has joined
  259. xnyhps has left
  260. xnyhps has joined
  261. ThibG has joined
  262. ThibG has joined
  263. Dave Cridland has left
  264. Dave Cridland has joined
  265. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  266. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  267. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  268. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  269. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  270. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  271. Alex has left
  272. Alex has joined
  273. daniel has left
  274. xnyhps has left
  275. xnyhps has joined
  276. daniel has joined
  277. j.r has joined
  278. Dave Cridland has left
  279. Dave Cridland has joined
  280. mrdoctorwho has joined
  281. l has left
  282. ta has joined
  283. l has joined
  284. lnj has left
  285. lnj has joined
  286. xnyhps has left
  287. xnyhps has joined
  288. Dave Cridland has left
  289. Dave Cridland has joined
  290. valo has left
  291. thorsten has left
  292. Valerian has joined
  293. ThibG has left
  294. ThibG has joined
  295. daniel has left
  296. daniel has joined
  297. Guus has left
  298. Guus has joined
  299. ludo has left
  300. Dave Cridland has left
  301. Dave Cridland has joined
  302. Guus has left
  303. Valerian has left
  304. Valerian has joined
  305. Guus has joined
  306. Zash has left
  307. valo has joined
  308. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  309. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  310. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  311. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  312. Dave Cridland has left
  313. Valerian has left
  314. Valerian has joined
  315. Valerian has left
  316. Valerian has joined
  317. Zash has left
  318. Dave Cridland has left
  319. Dave Cridland has left
  320. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  321. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  322. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  323. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  324. l has joined
  325. Valerian has left
  326. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  327. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  328. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  329. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  330. Dave Cridland has left
  331. Dave Cridland has joined
  332. thorsten has left
  333. MbJ3 has joined
  334. Dave Cridland has left
  335. Dave Cridland has joined
  336. jubalh has joined
  337. ta has joined
  338. l has joined
  339. l has joined
  340. goffi has left
  341. goffi has joined
  342. thorsten has left
  343. Dave Cridland has left
  344. Dave Cridland has left
  345. Dave Cridland has joined
  346. l has left
  347. alexis has joined
  348. MbJ3 has left
  349. MbJ3 has joined
  350. Dave Cridland has left
  351. Dave Cridland has joined
  352. ludo has joined
  353. vinx55 has joined
  354. l has joined
  355. Guus has left
  356. Dave Cridland has left
  357. Dave Cridland has joined
  358. Dave Cridland has left
  359. Dave Cridland has joined
  360. Guus has left
  361. thorsten has left
  362. vinx55 has left
  363. mimi89999 has joined
  364. efrit has joined
  365. vinx55 has joined
  366. jjrh has left
  367. Dave Cridland has left
  368. Dave Cridland has joined
  369. thorsten has left
  370. waqas has joined
  371. andy has left
  372. jjrh has left
  373. thorsten has left
  374. Guus has left
  375. thorsten has joined
  376. Guus has left
  377. Dave Cridland has left
  378. apach has left
  379. Dave Cridland has joined
  380. vinx55 has left
  381. Dave Cridland has left
  382. Dave Cridland has joined
  383. Dave Cridland has left
  384. Dave Cridland has joined
  385. jjrh has left
  386. moparisthebest has left
  387. jjrh has left
  388. alexis has left
  389. nyco has left
  390. alexis has joined
  391. ludo has left
  392. jjrh has left
  393. daniel has left
  394. mrdoctorwho has joined
  395. daniel has left
  396. Holger has left
  397. mrdoctorwho has left
  398. thorsten has left
  399. efrit has left
  400. Holger has joined
  401. Holger has joined
  402. jjrh has left
  403. Valerian has joined
  404. jjrh has left
  405. apach has left
  406. vanitasvitae has left
  407. Holger has joined
  408. blabla has joined
  409. thorsten has left
  410. blabla has left
  411. j.r has joined
  412. 404.city has joined
  413. mrdoctorwho has joined
  414. jjrh In regards to the list message "staleness of devices" When we are talking about 'messages' are we referring to stanza's, or specifically the <message/> stanza?
  415. j.r has joined
  416. rion has left
  417. jjrh has left
  418. jonasw given that it’s omemo, we’re probably referring to OMEMO messages
  419. jonasw vanitasvitae, ^
  420. jjrh has left
  421. vanitasvitae jjrh: an OMEMO <encrypted/> element
  422. Dave Cridland has left
  423. Dave Cridland has joined
  424. vanitasvitae Which is encrypted for our device
  425. Dave Cridland has left
  426. Dave Cridland has joined
  427. jjrh Ah okay thanks for the clarification.
  428. 404.city has left
  429. vanitasvitae jjrh: :)
  430. Steve Kille has left
  431. Steve Kille has left
  432. Steve Kille has joined
  433. apach has left
  434. blabla has joined
  435. lskdjf has joined
  436. 404.city has joined
  437. 404.city has left
  438. Alex has left
  439. ludo has joined
  440. lovetox has joined
  441. alexis has left
  442. alexis has joined
  443. 404.city has joined
  444. Guus has left
  445. jubalh has left
  446. Guus has left
  447. Dave Cridland has left
  448. Dave Cridland has joined
  449. apach has left
  450. tux has left
  451. jjrh has left
  452. ralphm has left
  453. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  454. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  455. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  456. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  457. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  458. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  459. SamWhited has left
  460. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  461. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  462. ta has joined
  463. valo has left
  464. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  465. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  466. ludo has left
  467. marc has joined
  468. jjrh has left
  469. vanitasvitae has left
  470. jjrh has left
  471. Ge0rG has joined
  472. anjan has joined
  473. anjan has left
  474. anjan has joined
  475. anjan has left
  476. anjan has joined
  477. anjan has left
  478. anjan has joined
  479. anjan has left
  480. anjan has joined
  481. ralphm has joined
  482. labdsf has left
  483. daniel has left
  484. daniel has joined
  485. anjan has joined
  486. Valerian has left
  487. Valerian has joined
  488. Valerian has left
  489. Valerian has joined
  490. Valerian has left
  491. Valerian has joined
  492. j.r has joined
  493. Valerian has left
  494. labdsf has joined
  495. 404.city has left
  496. 404.city has joined
  497. ralphm has left
  498. labdsf has left
  499. labdsf has joined
  500. marc has left
  501. Valerian has joined
  502. ralphm has joined
  503. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  504. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  505. labdsf has left
  506. 404.city has left
  507. Dave Cridland has left
  508. Dave Cridland has joined
  509. apach has left
  510. Dave Cridland has left
  511. Dave Cridland has joined
  512. lumi has left
  513. valo has joined
  514. Valerian has left
  515. labdsf has joined
  516. ralphm has joined
  517. Dave Cridland has left
  518. Dave Cridland has joined
  519. Dave Cridland has left
  520. Dave Cridland has joined
  521. marc has joined
  522. Dave Cridland has left
  523. Dave Cridland has joined
  524. Dave Cridland has left
  525. Dave Cridland has joined
  526. labdsf has left
  527. labdsf has joined
  528. jubalh has joined
  529. Yagiza has left
  530. thorsten has left
  531. Dave Cridland has left
  532. Dave Cridland has joined
  533. apach has left
  534. Valerian has joined
  535. muppeth has left
  536. muppeth has joined
  537. muppeth has left
  538. muppeth has joined
  539. waqas has left
  540. thorsten has left
  541. alexis has left
  542. jubalh has left
  543. labdsf has left
  544. lskdjf has left
  545. alexis has joined
  546. mrdoctorwho has joined
  547. j.r has joined
  548. alexis has left
  549. labdsf has joined
  550. waqas has joined
  551. labdsf has left
  552. labdsf has joined
  553. labdsf has left
  554. labdsf has joined
  555. labdsf has left
  556. labdsf has joined
  557. ludo has joined
  558. lskdjf has left
  559. j.r has joined
  560. Dave Cridland has left
  561. Dave Cridland has joined
  562. lovetox jdev seems down
  563. lovetox flow: 3.2 Verification of <openpgp/> Content Recipients MUST verify that the signature is valid, that the signature's key corresponds to the sender's key,
  564. labdsf has left
  565. labdsf has joined
  566. jonasw seems up to me, lovetox
  567. lovetox can we relax this a little bit
  568. lovetox if a contact writes me offline messages, and i dont have the keys yet
  569. jonasw then you have to wait until you have the keys, no?
  570. lovetox this would mean caching all messages for later decryption IF i get the public key
  571. jonasw signature validation sounds kinda important.
  572. Dave Cridland has left
  573. Dave Cridland has joined
  574. lovetox yes, but it doesnt has to be made instantly
  575. lovetox especially not on first contact
  576. labdsf has left
  577. labdsf has joined
  578. lovetox i dont know how omemo does that, but i can read offline messages also without querying keys from the contact first
  579. lovetox especially with other rules in the XEP like "blind trust on first contact" which seem to try and make this as easy and painless as possible
  580. jonasw you can’t be sure those aren’t spoofed though
  581. lovetox we are talking about first contact, if a attacker is a man in the middle, he can supply all the data he wants, it does not help me to query keys
  582. lovetox signature verification makes only sense, if i verified that a fingerprint belongs truly to my contact
  583. jonasw but if it’s an offline message, it’s unclear whether the attacker *still* has the power
  584. jonasw it might be that they hijacked a device and were able to send a spoofed message
  585. !XSF_Martin Why not mark the message as 'unverified'
  586. jonasw but that access to the account was revoked?
  587. jonasw lovetox, the contact also might have untrusted devices which intentionally do not have access to the GPG keys and are not used to send or receive GPG messages
  588. jonasw hmm. but those devices could publish forged keys, so nevermind
  589. lovetox !XSF_Martin, not allowed by the XEP
  590. lovetox im not arguing that there cant be a case found where this rule would help to migitate a attack
  591. lovetox the question is, is it worth the hassle
  592. lovetox it does not help against man in the middle which is the biggest risk, we blind trust all keys, this alone is a HUGE risk
  593. jonasw it boils down to: (a) who controls which keys are considered valid vs. who is able to send a message with this sender? and (b) why sign when verification is optional?
  594. lovetox so why beeing so strict on this thing that does certainly not add a new big risk
  595. lovetox jonasw, im not saying verification should be optional
  596. jonasw anyways, gotta run
  597. lovetox just something like, on first contact we can display the messages until we received the key
  598. lovetox or something like that
  599. lovetox i mean i can do this anyway, this XEP MUST is useless because it cant be enforced
  600. lovetox it should be in the business rules or something, a suggestion with an exception or something like that
  601. lovetox always verify, except you hadnt time to receive the key or something
  602. lovetox what im saying, i will not implement this, its not worth the hassle to make the whole client async decrypt messages
  603. labdsf has joined
  604. UsL has joined
  605. Dave Cridland has left
  606. Dave Cridland has joined
  607. labdsf has left
  608. labdsf has joined
  609. apach has left
  610. lorddavidiii has left
  611. lorddavidiii has joined
  612. lskdjf has joined
  613. Dave Cridland has left
  614. Dave Cridland has joined
  615. j.r has left
  616. j.r has joined
  617. Dave Cridland has left
  618. Dave Cridland has joined
  619. lorddavidiii has left
  620. Zash has left
  621. lorddavidiii has joined
  622. marc has left
  623. Valerian has left
  624. Valerian has joined
  625. Valerian has left
  626. Valerian has joined
  627. Dave Cridland has left
  628. Dave Cridland has joined
  629. Valerian has left
  630. Valerian has joined
  631. ludo has left
  632. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  633. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  634. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  635. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  636. Tobias has left
  637. Tobias has joined
  638. j.r has joined
  639. j.r has joined
  640. Dave Cridland has left
  641. Dave Cridland has joined
  642. Dave Cridland has left
  643. Dave Cridland has joined
  644. Dave Cridland has left
  645. Dave Cridland has joined
  646. goffi has left
  647. anjan has joined
  648. jjrh has left
  649. labdsf has left
  650. Dave Cridland has left
  651. jjrh has left
  652. Dave Cridland has left
  653. Dave Cridland has joined
  654. labdsf has joined
  655. tux has left
  656. !XSF_Martin has left
  657. !XSF_Martin has joined
  658. thorsten has left
  659. Zash has left
  660. moparisthebest has joined
  661. jubalh has joined
  662. jubalh has left
  663. Valerian has left
  664. apach has left
  665. SamWhited has left
  666. UsL has left
  667. Zash has left
  668. lnj has left
  669. lorddavidiii has left
  670. Nekit has joined
  671. Zash has joined
  672. Dave Cridland has left
  673. anjan has left
  674. Dave Cridland has joined
  675. anjan has joined
  676. anjan has left
  677. blabla has joined
  678. ThibG has left
  679. ThibG has joined
  680. lovetox has left
  681. daniel has left
  682. daniel has joined
  683. alexis has joined
  684. jjrh has left
  685. jjrh has left
  686. apach has left
  687. blabla has joined
  688. jjrh has left
  689. Dave Cridland has left
  690. Dave Cridland has joined
  691. daniel has left
  692. MattJ has joined
  693. daniel has joined
  694. jjrh has left
  695. jjrh has left
  696. daniel has left
  697. Dave Cridland has left
  698. Dave Cridland has joined
  699. Dave Cridland has left
  700. Dave Cridland has joined
  701. alexis has left
  702. alexis has joined
  703. daniel has joined
  704. apach has left
  705. thorsten has left
  706. ThibG has left
  707. ThibG has joined
  708. rion has left
  709. Dave Cridland has left
  710. Dave Cridland has joined
  711. Dave Cridland has left
  712. Dave Cridland has joined
  713. waqas has left
  714. apach has left
  715. l has left
  716. moparisthebest has left
  717. moparisthebest has joined
  718. moparisthebest has left
  719. moparisthebest has joined
  720. UsL has left
  721. lskdjf has left
  722. Dave Cridland has left
  723. Dave Cridland has joined
  724. Dave Cridland has left
  725. Dave Cridland has joined
  726. alexis has left
  727. alexis has joined
  728. thorsten has left
  729. l has left
  730. l has joined
  731. blabla has left
  732. Dave Cridland has left
  733. blabla has joined
  734. Dave Cridland has joined
  735. Dave Cridland has left
  736. Dave Cridland has joined
  737. Dave Cridland has left
  738. Dave Cridland has joined
  739. Dave Cridland has left
  740. Dave Cridland has joined
  741. Dave Cridland has left
  742. Dave Cridland has joined
  743. Zash has left