Tuesday, September 04, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[07:50:16] <edhelas> Link Mauve do we have something like "public bookmarks" in XMPP ?
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[07:53:20] <pep.> Like a shared PEP node? I don't think there's any client support for that, nor spec, but you can already change the acces-model/publish-options of your storage:bookmarks node :x
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[08:35:47] <edhelas> XEP-xxxx: MUC Avatars, how much XEP do we need to handle avatars on XMPP ?
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[08:36:02] <edhelas> do I need to also create one to handle avatars on Pubsub nodes ?
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[08:37:06] <edhelas> this is again another flow to handle/update/notify avatars
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[09:23:43] <MattJ> edhelas, how close is what you do for pubsub nodes to what that XEP does for MUC?
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[09:59:05] <edhelas> I don't do avatars on Pubsub nodes for now because I didn't found a way to do it yet
[09:59:12] <edhelas> (also vcards)
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[10:02:50] <edhelas> maybe we can simply generalize that XEP, say that publication/retrieval is always done the same way (for JID, MUC JID and Pubsub Nodes) and the notification can be done through presences (for the JID), messages/presences for the MUC JID, and Pubsub healines for the Pubsub nodes
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[10:03:27] <edhelas> then we have an unique and generic way to handle vcard and avatars publication/retrieval accross the XMPP network
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[10:04:06] <MattJ> Good luck
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[10:04:27] <MattJ> Pubsub nodes don't have PEP, is one problem
[10:04:39] <edhelas> yes
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[10:05:10] <edhelas> and it's kind of hacked by putting those "pubsub pep nodes" next to eachother : MIX
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[10:13:58] <Yagiza> Hello!
[10:14:42] <Yagiza> Do we have a way to retrieve history from a transport?
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[10:15:13] <MattJ> Yes, XEP-0313 if the transport supports it
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[10:20:48] <Yagiza> MattJ, so, once my client discover that transport supports MAM, I can request an archive for any of my chats via that transport?
[10:21:54] <flow> Yagiza, that is how I would expect it to work
[10:21:58] <MattJ> Normal chats will typically be archived by your server already
[10:22:06] <MattJ> But group chats, yes, you will need to ask the transport
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[10:23:07] <Yagiza> MattJ, normal chats could not be archived before I logged on the transport.
[10:23:22] <MattJ> True
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[10:24:39] <Yagiza> MattJ, so, what about requesting that parts of chat?
[10:25:30] <MattJ> It depends completely on the transport
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[10:49:46] <Link Mauve> “10:35:47 edhelas> XEP-xxxx: MUC Avatars, how much XEP do we need to handle avatars on XMPP ?”, this one is almost informational (I hesitated), it describes how to do 0153 on 0045.
[10:49:56] <Link Mauve> “10:36:07 edhelas> do I need to also create one to handle avatars on Pubsub nodes ?”, isn’t that 0084?
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[10:50:26] <Link Mauve> Ah, avatars for PubSub nodes*.
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[10:50:38] <Yagiza> MattJ, I mean the correct way to retrieve history. How client should act?
[10:51:18] <MattJ> I'm not aware of any transport providing this functionality, so I can't say
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[11:06:18] <Yagiza> MattJ, but if I develop a transport, I need to know if this functionality is valid for a transport, or not.
[11:06:52] <Yagiza> MattJ, I guess it must be specified implicitly.
[11:07:14] <MattJ> XEP-0313 defines a protocol for exchanging history between two XMPP entities
[11:07:31] <MattJ> Usually this is a user and their own server, or a user and a MUC room
[11:07:41] <MattJ> but a user and a transport is just fine too
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[11:08:02] <MattJ> However clients won't currently do this, so you may want to add a XEP for that
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[11:09:13] <MattJ> So the protocol is the easiest problem, that's 99% solved with XEP-0313
[11:09:31] <MattJ> But implementations do not query transports, because transports today don't offer this ability (except for groupchats)
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[11:10:18] <MattJ> So implementations would need to add support for this, even if they already support XEP-0313 in other ways
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[11:10:30] <MattJ> so you need to get friendly with client developers :)
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[11:13:59] <jonasw> the proper fix would be if the transport sent messages to the account even if no client is online
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[11:14:45] <MattJ> I understood the problem to be access to messages before registering with the transport
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[11:19:23] <Yagiza> MattJ, the problem is what to do if both transport and user's server do support XEP-0313.
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[11:21:06] <Link Mauve> Yagiza, the client can either request both, or assume one is the only source of truth.
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[11:21:24] <Link Mauve> Deduplication might be harder in the first case though, because stanza-ids will be different.
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[11:27:03] <Yagiza> Link Mauve, yes. So all those issues must be clarified in the XEP.
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[11:30:01] <Link Mauve> The XEP only defines the protocol to retrieve history from another entity.
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[11:30:20] <Link Mauve> You can write another one (informational) about what to do with transports.
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[12:22:49] <Yagiza> Link Mauve, yes. But at least, mention of transports in Archiving Entities( https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html#archiving_entities ) should be added.
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[13:13:14] <Link Mauve> Yagiza, sure.
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