XSF Discussion - 2018-09-05


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  581. edhelas could it be possible to share PEP messages with MUC ?
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  583. edhelas then I can share my localisation with people in a room for example ?
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  586. MattJ Prosody now allows you to get PEP items from people in a MUC, but there is no automatic subscription (yet?)
  587. edhelas Holger what about ejabberd :) ?
  588. edhelas MattJ how does it work ? I need to configure my PEP node for that ?
  589. MattJ It would need to whitelist the MUC JID or be open, yes
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  592. MattJ For "live" updates, I wrote about this 9 (!) years ago: https://blog.prosody.im/multi-user-chat-gets-rich/
  593. edhelas interesting
  594. Zash NINE YEARS
  595. MattJ https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2009-June/022173.html
  596. MattJ and this post to the list ^
  597. Zash Crickets?
  598. edhelas <3
  599. MattJ I implemented it in Gajim, though I'm guessing the patch no longer applies :)
  600. Holger edhelas: Hmmm.
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  602. Holger The point is making stuff available to room members (or occupants?) who are not on my contact list, without making it available world-wide?
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  604. Holger (Plus anon rooms?)
  605. edhelas yes
  606. edhelas for example in a room where people could share their location or mood
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  609. Zash Having directed presence count in the PEP access check?
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  681. Zash Does anyone actually follow https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0178.html now?
  682. Zash Or ...
  683. Zash Really tiny mention of "or fall back to dialback" in there
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  685. peter Zash: for c2s or s2s or both?
  686. Zash Mostly thinking of s2s here
  687. peter Also, I doubt that any CAs issue certs with the xmppAddr field.
  688. Zash All glory to Let's Encrypt
  689. Zash There can be only one! etc...
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  692. Zash But at least one server offers EXTERNAL even if the cert doesn't match, then expects dialback to be attempted after <{sasl}failure>
  693. peter What aspect of XEP-0178 are you wondering about? The interaction with dialback or the core functionality?
  694. peter Ah, right.
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  697. peter Hrm, that seems less than ideal.
  698. Kev Zash: Us? I'd say that's a bug. I'd say it's always a bug to advertise external and not have it succeed.
  699. peter We might want to take a look at how 178, 220, and 344 interact.
  700. Zash ejabberd
  701. Zash don't forget 288 :)
  702. peter Well yeah.
  703. peter That too. :-)
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  705. Kev 288 interacts by not having interoperable implementations :D
  706. peter LOL
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  709. Zash IIRC the rationale was to be able to report certificate validation errors back with the SASL failure, which seems sensible
  710. Kev We'll be redoing S2S in M-Link shortly and I'm seriously wondering if there's value in us (re-)implementing 288.
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  714. peter If we just used the blockchain, this would all be easy. https://medium.com/originprotocol/introducing-origin-messaging-decentralized-secure-and-auditable-13c16fe0f13e
  715. Kev Not using blockchain was our second big mistake.
  716. Kev Sorry, third.
  717. Kev Our second was not using bittorrent.
  718. Zash Blockchain based PubSub over BitTorrent!
  719. Kev And our first was not using yaml (I assume JSON must be going out of fashion by now).
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  724. peter JSON is Forever™
  725. waqas MongoDB is webscale, etc
  726. waqas Kev: A little curious about what "redoing S2S in M-Link" would result in
  727. waqas Just a code cleanup, or something beyond that?
  728. Kev waqas: Nothing visible, just tidying up some things internally.
  729. waqas Got it
  730. Kev Well, nothing visible from the protocol side.
  731. Kev But enhancing support for our non-Internet type routing scenarios.
  732. waqas That sounds neat
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  748. Kev Yeah, some of this stuff is genuinely difficult and interesting.
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  750. Zash 288 seems like it'd be beneficial for some of those
  751. Zash also helps in some cases like where the server is behind a NAT or moving around without updating DNS
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  753. Kev In those sorts of cases you probably don't want to S2S at all :)
  754. Zash read: I like being able to run a server on my laptop and have it work even when I visit people
  755. Kev (Probably you want 361 in most of those cases)
  756. Kev (X2X)
  757. Kev Except the 'moving laptop pretending to be a server' case possibly.
  758. Kev Although even 288 isn't enough to save you there.
  759. Zash Not perfect but it works
  760. Kev Sometimes.
  761. Kev I suspect that you'd find that a clustered server would give you partial service, depending on the model.
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  763. Kev It'd be quite reasonable for a cluster to want one S2S session per node, rather than a giant mesh of session routing.
  764. Zash Since I do this mostly to test stuff locally, it only needs to work sometimes, ie when I'm testing.
  765. Kev But now I'm vanishing.
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  768. pep. > Kev> And our first was not using yaml (I assume JSON must be going out of fashion by now). Wasn't yaml a superset of json
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  772. Zash yaml is a superset of everything
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  811. Maranda Hmm M-Link and 288 in the same sentence, did Bidi ever work in it to begin with? 🤔😜👹
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  1030. moparisthebest Has anyone ever seen or heard of MAM between different devices connected to the same account?
  1031. moparisthebest Someone in another muc was surprised omemo didn't work this way
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  1033. moparisthebest (he didn't use those words of course, more like why don't I have full history on new device B when device A has full history)
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  1040. Link Mauve moparisthebest, it’d then be trivial for the server (“the attacker”) to obtain the logs of things it shouldn’t have had access to.
  1041. Link Mauve At some point we could also drop the act and just implement OMEMO in the server.
  1042. moparisthebest Link Mauve: well presumably it would reencrypt, but yea still kind of breaks PFS
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