XSF Discussion - 2018-09-16


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  418. neshtaxmpp hi
  419. neshtaxmpp hi
  420. neshtaxmpp my friend need help for xep-0368
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  426. neshtaxmpp https://wiki.mattrude.com/SRV_records_for_XMPP_over_TLS
  427. neshtaxmpp my friend has apache2 how he can make it work.
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  677. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: haven't seen that one, there is also https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368
  678. moparisthebest Nothing specific to web server involved though if you use sslh
  679. neshtaxmpp moparisisthbest... dude dont know we are trying from 4 hours run sslh and cant run on debian. thrre is not decent manuals
  680. moparisthebest That's not my experience, what's the problem
  681. neshtaxmpp moparisthebest we dont have decent manuals how to do it.
  682. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: copy paste the example from the wiki I linked
  683. neshtaxmpp moparisthebest‎ first we find this: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingProsody#XMPP_over_HTTPS aqnd this is false, this is second: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368 and here they say first is false.
  684. moparisthebest What is false
  685. moparisthebest On the second link
  686. neshtaxmpp moparisthebest‎: not according with truth or fact; incorrect. made to imitate something in order to deceive. "the trunk had a false bottom"
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  689. neshtaxmpp moparisthebest my friend use apache2
  690. Maranda EPARSEFAILURE
  691. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: I can fix that page though, so I'd something is wrong let me know
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  694. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: so what? Use the sslh example not the nginx example
  695. moparisthebest It's sslh OR nginx, not both
  696. neshtaxmpp moparisbest it dont work. when my friend use wiki xmpp and start sslh it comment error on line 16
  697. neshtaxmpp error line 16 is this: );
  698. neshtaxmpp bellow: { host: "0.0.0.0"; port: "443"; },
  699. neshtaxmpp and sslh refused to start
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  701. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: are you running the minimum version it requires?
  702. neshtaxmpp my friend download from debian apt-get install sslh
  703. moparisthebest Either that or you don't have ipv4 on that box
  704. moparisthebest So check the version
  705. neshtaxmpp my proposition was maybe he dont have installed sslh alpn, but there is no sslh with alpn
  706. moparisthebest 'debian' goes from ancient to new
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  708. neshtaxmpp sslh -V: sslh-fork 1.18-1
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  710. moparisthebest That should work, run it as verbose as possible and look for errors
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  714. neshtaxmpp moparisbest my friend question is: in /et/default/sslh what is correct:
  715. neshtaxmpp #DAEMON_OPTS="-F /etc/sslh/sslh.cfg"
  716. neshtaxmpp or this: DAEMON_OPTS="--user sslh --listen 0.0.0.0:443 --ssh 127.0.0.1:22 --ssl 127.0.0.1:443 --pidfile /var/run/sslh/sslh.pid"
  717. moparisthebest No you want to use the config file
  718. moparisthebest But don't worry about that for now, run it directly from the command line to see if it works
  719. neshtaxmpp moparisthebest he know but first manual state he should change for that he ask.
  720. neshtaxmpp moparisbest what are the command to run it directy. me friend use service sslh start there it comment error line 16
  721. moparisthebest You want to use the config file
  722. moparisthebest Not specify anything else on command line
  723. moparisthebest Just try it
  724. moparisthebest It won't blow up your computer if you pick wrong options
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  727. neshtaxmpp so my friend write: sslh and it comment this:
  728. neshtaxmpp At least one target protocol must be specified.
  729. moparisthebest Try help and see how to use a config file
  730. neshtaxmpp moparisbest run with sslh.cfg: /etc/sslh/sslh.cfg:16:syntax error
  731. ThibG has joined
  732. neshtaxmpp maybe this is line 16 " there is );
  733. moparisthebest Maybe try commenting out
  734. neshtaxmpp commenthing this: ( { host: "0.0.0.0"; port: "443"; }, );
  735. moparisthebest Whatever, just try things, like I said it won't explode
  736. neshtaxmpp wait
  737. daniel Maybe the last `,` is too much
  738. daniel If it's like json
  739. neshtaxmpp comment out ); it comment other error: /etc/sslh/sslh.cfg:25:syntax error
  740. neshtaxmpp error line 25 is this: protocols:
  741. daniel Probably look at other examples from the sslh website
  742. neshtaxmpp daniel my paste it 100 % 1:1
  743. neshtaxmpp my friend
  744. moparisthebest Ah could be, try removing last comma
  745. moparisthebest daniel: does conversations.im use sslh anymore?
  746. neshtaxmpp moparisbest you mean from here: { host: "0.0.0.0"; port: "443"; },
  747. daniel moparisthebest: no
  748. daniel Ejabberd does it natively now
  749. daniel And we have a second IP for http
  750. moparisthebest That is where the error is isn't it neshtaxmpp
  751. moparisthebest daniel: ah nice, yea nginx is an option now too
  752. moparisthebest Haven't tested it but I assume it's faster
  753. neshtaxmpp daniel but compliance.conversations.im complaint xmpp over tls is not enabled.
  754. neshtaxmpp daniel for that my friend want to enable xmpp over tls.
  755. neshtaxmpp moparisbest in line 25 there is no coma
  756. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: different topics
  757. Zash So, they don't care about why, they just want all the green?
  758. daniel Zash: obviously
  759. Valerian has left
  760. Maranda neshtaxmpp, that checks only srv records afair for 368
  761. Zash I find it somewhat dishonest of that site to advertise itself as "XMPP compliance", when it's more like "Conversations server feature wishlist/requirements"
  762. neshtaxmpp zash if you start think. yes xmpp over tls is important becouse ther is airport who block port 5222 so xmpp will not work if it is not enabled.
  763. Valerian has joined
  764. neshtaxmpp maranda what check... the web site... i get it from pix-art.de
  765. daniel Zash: that doesn't have such a nice ring to it tho
  766. Maranda neshtaxmpp, O_o
  767. Maranda ‎[16:23:36] ‎neshtaxmpp‎: daniel but compliance.conversations.im complaint xmpp over tls is not enabled.
  768. Valerian has left
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  770. neshtaxmpp so guys is it important to enable xmpp over tls or not... please help my friend enable it, if this is important.
  771. Maranda "that checks only for srv records afair"
  772. neshtaxmpp maranda srv " you mean dns, newbiew will not understand it, you have to be simpler " are enabled.
  773. neshtaxmpp dns are like this: _xmpps-client._tcp.example.org. 86400 IN SRV 5 0 443 xmpp.example.org. _xmpp-client._tcp.example.org. 86400 IN SRV 10 0 443 xmpp.example.org. _xmpp-client._tcp.example.org. 86400 IN SRV 15 0 5222 xmpp.example.org.
  774. Valerian has left
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  776. neshtaxmpp moparisbest so what you referr with " the last coma " ," "
  777. lovetox neshtaxmpp, it seems it a problem with parsing the config file, it should not be hard to find out what the syntax error is here
  778. lovetox just look at other examples of config files on the net, and see where its different
  779. Maranda actually it does, nm
  780. neshtaxmpp lovetox for hackers and developers it is not problems, but for peoples who are not hackers and developers this is matter issue
  781. lovetox listen: ( { host: "thelonious"; port: "443"; } );
  782. lovetox there this line
  783. lovetox after the } remove the " , "
  784. lovetox try again
  785. neshtaxmpp lovetox ome moment.
  786. lovetox dont copy what i posted into your config, it was just an example from the net, to show you how its different to the one you are using
  787. lovetox ( { host: "0.0.0.0"; port: "443"; }, );
  788. lovetox see there is a " , " at the end
  789. neshtaxmpp so my fiend remove "," as lovetox suggestion and not it comment other things.
  790. neshtaxmpp so where is decent manual that my friend peter can follow and configure sslh
  791. lovetox i guess on google if the wiki is not enough for you
  792. neshtaxmpp lovetox this is issue: becouse this is second manual that we found: first was that: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingProsody#XMPP_over_HTTPS and second was that: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368 in second they comment first web site is false.
  793. neshtaxmpp Another (incorrectly named) example can be found at the Debian Wiki
  794. neshtaxmpp and debian wiki is this: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingProsody#XMPP_over_HTTPS
  795. lovetox the name is incorrect
  796. lovetox not the example i guess
  797. Dave Cridland has left
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  799. neshtaxmpp the name is false.
  800. lovetox do you think someone would link to examples that are wrong?
  801. Dave Cridland has left
  802. Dave Cridland has joined
  803. neshtaxmpp lovetox yes fake informations will do.
  804. neshtaxmpp this is not first time my friends found fakes web site complaing do this and it will do...
  805. daniel Turn on your brain for a second try to understand the syntax of the config and fix it
  806. neshtaxmpp include i had to safe my friend from 2 day seeking in front to make his server work, becouse he follow fake news.
  807. lovetox im not sure to what "name" the author refers, but i dont think it means, "This example is wrong"
  808. daniel Semantically the example file is probably correct
  809. neshtaxmpp daniel my friends are not hackers and developers they are just normal users who want to have they privacy... much to look in the code it will be the same.
  810. moparisthebest So for the xmpp wiki I adapted my config, I could have accidentally left in an extra comma
  811. lovetox neshtaxmpp, they dont need to be hackers or developers, but they have to learn a minimum about tools and how they work and how to configure them
  812. moparisthebest I'll check later at a computer
  813. lovetox you cant run a xmpp server with ZERO knowledge about computers
  814. Maranda what lovetox said,
  815. neshtaxmpp lovetox belive me they can do it.
  816. moparisthebest Yea you have to be comfortable with trying things
  817. Maranda Your complaints sound very preposterous to me tbh.
  818. neshtaxmpp lovetox, moparisbest when there is 100 % true manual everything will work.
  819. moparisthebest For sslh specific problems, have you tried sslh website/docs
  820. Maranda Mistakes != Fakes
  821. neshtaxmpp maranda Your complaints sound very preposterous to me tbh.
  822. daniel There is a lesson in the fact that a lot of people tripped over the bad examples in XEP 156
  823. Maranda there can be errors in manuals too
  824. daniel Both of them...
  825. Maranda and if you have that minimal knowledge you need, you can easily spot 'em.
  826. neshtaxmpp daniel i have compiled lineage latst 14.1 without developer knowledge. how i do that.
  827. equil has left
  828. daniel I'm not sure what lesson though...
  829. neshtaxmpp daniel i say it before...
  830. neshtaxmpp maranda how person will compile 100 % working lineage without developer knowledge.
  831. moparisthebest I'll ensure the sslh example on the xmpp wiki is correct later, but it's close enough that no one has complained in years so
  832. Maranda neshtaxmpp, no idea never compiled Lineage.
  833. lovetox neshtaxmpp, what is the problem with the config file on the debian site ?
  834. lovetox does it also show syntax errors?
  835. Maranda or any other Android ROM
  836. apach has left
  837. neshtaxmpp lovetox wait im gonna my friend what was problem with debian wiki... something was false.
  838. Maranda thinks this usage of false is rather... unpolite at least :P
  839. neshtaxmpp my friend say: he follow debian wiki... and when run sslh apache2 stop working... when apache2 start working sslh stop working all the same: port is busy
  840. moparisthebest Maranda: I assume that's a language thing rather than get offended meh
  841. neshtaxmpp for that i find my friend this second site: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368
  842. Maranda moparisthebest, me knows thnx :P
  843. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: right you can't have 2 servers on same port
  844. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: Apache must listen on a different port
  845. moparisthebest I use 442 in that example
  846. neshtaxmpp moparisbest wait... so you mean... running sslh with 442... and apache2 runnin on port 443
  847. daniel Or on a different IP
  848. daniel The other way round
  849. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: you have to read and understand the example rather than copy+paste
  850. neshtaxmpp moparisthebest why in xmpp example they dont say " sslh has to use port 442, becouse it will be used by apache 2 port 443 "
  851. neshtaxmpp moparisthebest so sslh will liste in port 442 and apache2 in port 443 -> this mean, when someone say open yourdomain.com it will open port 442 - > 443 and will open website
  852. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: it says Apache or nginx on 442 right?
  853. neshtaxmpp moparisbest ‎[04:46:33 PM] ‎moparisthebest‎: neshtaxmpp: right you can't have 2 servers on same port ‎[04:46:55 PM] ‎moparisthebest‎: neshtaxmpp: Apache must listen on a different port
  854. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: read the sslh config comments on xmpp wiki
  855. moparisthebest It specifically says that
  856. neshtaxmpp moparisbest so i see why there is no understand.
  857. moparisthebest I gotta go now, I'll review chat later though
  858. neshtaxmpp moparisbest... you base on conclusion that giving small information can peoples understand they understand it is gonna work.
  859. lovetox neshtaxmpp, we assume that this is stuff that only people touch that have a minimal knowledge of what they do
  860. neshtaxmpp moparisbest if i say 400 W. motor will fit in... do you know where it will fit.
  861. lovetox but feel free to write a step for step guide, that even your grandmother can execute
  862. neshtaxmpp lovetox That is exactly what peoples want. Step by step, becouse this is how linux work, linux for everybody.
  863. neshtaxmpp lovetox linus in interview say debian is too complex...
  864. lovetox yeah if "people" want it, they should write it
  865. neshtaxmpp lovetox they will write if they know what to write.
  866. neshtaxmpp lovetox again how i say how i without developer knowledge i compile full lineage 20188 version.
  867. lovetox a endless circle, so you are saying without guide you cant learn something, and because of that you cant write guides?
  868. neshtaxmpp lovetox do you know what it pathfinder...
  869. equil has joined
  870. neshtaxmpp lovetox this is endless circle for you... i know it is gonna help other peoples.
  871. neshtaxmpp nobody undertand that i came here with my friend seek how to run sslh and you guys just jump in aggresive manner.
  872. lovetox im not saying you shouldnt help other people
  873. lovetox but to tell other people that they should help other people because you think they dont help enough ..
  874. neshtaxmpp lovetox how much it will get from your precious time to write " apache has to be on different port "
  875. vanitasvitae has joined
  876. lovetox write it yourself
  877. neshtaxmpp lovetox i;m sure you didnt catch it.... but lets ignore this for the moment.
  878. neshtaxmpp lovetox with pleasure will write it if i know how.
  879. lovetox great !
  880. neshtaxmpp lovetox if i was hacker i will bring on light what militarry do... peoples deserve to know the true...
  881. neshtaxmpp but that is other topic.
  882. lovetox its seems this is a reoccuring thing with you, always "IF i was a .. ", "IF i had the knowledge"
  883. lovetox seems you should do something about that IF
  884. crowbar.envy has left
  885. Maranda I think there's some misunderstandment due to some language issues, like telling people they write "false" things isn't the best way to start an argument even if it's not intentionally offensive, it sounds so ;)
  886. equil has left
  887. neshtaxmpp lovetox you sound like usa " american "
  888. neshtaxmpp maranda everybody think differently. I think women kick peoples... so you see everybody think differently.
  889. Maranda . . . never mind.
  890. neshtaxmpp lovetox peoples who calculate other peoples... they try be mastermind... but how i say... education in 21 century is worse. there is no respect and humankind.
  891. neshtaxmpp we came we peace... and solution.
  892. neshtaxmpp and we receive... aggresions and manipulations...
  893. neshtaxmpp it doesnt mean if i;m african, ot german, or serbian...
  894. neshtaxmpp it is just how we are... multicultural... if you can't respect foreigener... then you can't respect yourself.
  895. flow neshtaxmpp, I've read most of the backlog and couldn't find any aggression. Mostly a discussion involving a language barrier
  896. neshtaxmpp flow... [04:58:42 PM] ‎lovetox‎: its seems this is a reoccuring thing with you, always "IF i was a .. ", "IF i had the knowledge" ‎[04:58:50 PM] ‎lovetox‎: seems you should do something about that IF
  897. flow and possibly some more politeness
  898. neshtaxmpp flow " [04:46:10 PM] ‎moparisthebest‎: Maranda: I assume that's a language thing rather than get offended meh"
  899. Yagiza has joined
  900. neshtaxmpp flow... so this is how i comment " politeness " this is not politeness.
  901. neshtaxmpp im sure there is wonderfull peoples...
  902. flow neshtaxmpp, sorry I wanted to write "and possibly *missing* some more politeness"
  903. neshtaxmpp flow sorry i wanted to write " bad peoples " but it was writed aggresions and manipulations.
  904. flow and I ultimately lost track if you are now able to run sslh or not
  905. Valerian has left
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  907. neshtaxmpp flow my friend in the moment is in stand off, we try sslh from maybe 5 hours and no go...
  908. neshtaxmpp until someone comment remove ","
  909. flow neshtaxmpp, the syntax and especially the error reporting mechanisms of many configuration files is often a source of frustration, if it is of any help
  910. neshtaxmpp hackers and developers on you peoples depend... if you explain it 100 % peoples will undestand it. If you write it bad, false it will not work. So now we need to exit becouse there is much too negative energy ...
  911. Dave Cridland has left
  912. Dave Cridland has joined
  913. neshtaxmpp flow... hmmm is this indirect my fiend is frustrated... no my friend is not frustrated...
  914. Dave Cridland has left
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  916. Guus has left
  917. neshtaxmpp flow... how i say this is 3 time... i dont have developer knowledge and compiled 100 % include it run in the moment on my mother smartphone lineage latest version. how i do this.
  918. neshtaxmpp flow if manual was bad writed, peoples will not make it. But if it was explained step by step i assure you will make it.
  919. flow possibly because compiling lineage is close to following a cooking recipe
  920. neshtaxmpp flow include to be for other peoples example: the manual of developer process was in cyrrilic
  921. flow it is not really comperable to complexity that is involved with a proper XMPP service setup
  922. neshtaxmpp not english language
  923. neshtaxmpp flow so this person who write in non-english cyrrilic language was so correctly writed that lineage was compiled.
  924. Maranda Holger, what's the default max number of stanzas queued in ejabberd's csi out of curiousity?
  925. neshtaxmpp flow... if peoples still try bypass what other peoples tell, and dont allow they ego win they will understand the peace can be possible.
  926. Holger Maranda: 100
  927. flow neshtaxmpp, I'm sorry, I am a bit lost. But if your point is "we need better manuals and easier to use software" then I'm 100% with you, but that goal is not easy to achive for assorted reasons
  928. Maranda Holger, ok thanks
  929. Maranda wonders if he set that a bit too high.
  930. Guus has left
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  932. neshtaxmpp flow i just remember. I was with a woman, that she directly hate men. Every time " look how this men is smiling, look how this men has children, look how this men look, and i told her. Piss off if i see you again i will complaint in justice system jail you.
  933. valo has joined
  934. neshtaxmpp flow. i had friend from gym. who was guy guy, smiling... developer and hacker... one week i didn;t see him and do you know what his face was...
  935. Maranda I'm just not sure how UX pleasing it is in a mobile client to see a massive amount of message coming in during the backlog update after state is switched back to active though.
  936. Holger Maranda: Easy way of eating tons of memory :-) Also mobile clients probably won't appreciate being flooded after going in the foreground again, yes.
  937. Maranda (although it will help on battery saving)
  938. Holger Maranda: You woulnd't usually queue actual *messages* though, right?
  939. Maranda Holger, I'm trying to queue groupchat messages until highlighted.
  940. Holger Eww.
  941. neshtaxmpp flow his face was aggresive... he didn't was he... i talk with him and he told me his boss. So from guy smiling he was change in assasin... why so. in 21 centuty happy dont exist. there is no respect anymore, without respect and peace peoples will be more aggresive.
  942. Valerian has left
  943. Maranda Holger, it's configurable via adhoc, just deciding how useful it is on the battery.
  944. Holger Maranda: But it's the default?
  945. 404.city has left
  946. Maranda Holger, for now yes, that's what I need to decide based on usefulness.
  947. Holger Maranda: Won't make the typical WhatsApp user happy I guess.
  948. Maranda cause UX it doesn't look stellar indeed.
  949. Holger "XMPP just never works. Now groupchat notifications are broken."
  950. Zash has left
  951. neshtaxmpp flow... and if say how bad was my life book will be little to write... iclude i was illegaly investagiated by secret service for something that if you didn't like love in woman. but one day she will be in jail, for much secret service she can work there is jail for them too.
  952. SamWhited Holger, Maranda: I missed the beginning of this, so pardon me if this was explained, but does your system if a phone comes online for its regularly scheduled radio time and does a stream resume presumably it gets the queue dump then too?
  953. Maranda Holger, well conversations only actually shows a toaster notifications if I get highlighted anyways. That won't break in that case.
  954. Maranda Holger, well conversations only actually shows a toaster notification if I get highlighted anyways. That won't break in that case.
  955. Holger Maranda: That's not the default in Conversations, at least not for private groups.
  956. daniel Maranda: Conversations will notify by default on all messages in private groups
  957. daniel Which is the type of group it will create by default
  958. Maranda hmm
  959. Holger SamWhited: The question is whether the CSI queue is dumped on 0198 resume?
  960. SamWhited Holger: yah, or on CSI active or whatever signal you're using
  961. Maranda SamWhited, it's not the same queue but "yes"
  962. 404.city has joined
  963. SamWhited Whatever the message queue is, yah. Thanks
  964. Holger Yes, both on CSI <active/> and on SM <resume/>.
  965. SamWhited That seems like it would be "good enough" to me
  966. SamWhited You get your messages once a minute or whatever it is, and if, in the mean time, something important like a highlight happens you can get an out of band push or whatever the case may be.
  967. Holger SamWhited: Once a minute?
  968. SamWhited Holger: whatever it is; I don't know what Android does by default
  969. SamWhited But I think it's every minute or two
  970. Holger Not sure what sort of Android event you mean.
  971. Yagiza has left
  972. SamWhited Holger: I assumed that's what you were talking about; Android gives every app a window of time every minute or two when the radio is on and it is allowed to use it.
  973. SamWhited Its part of its battery saving measures.
  974. Yagiza has joined
  975. Holger I wasn't aware. No idea whether Conversations listens to that.
  976. SamWhited So presumably a message queue would only build up until the app could get to its network window and do a resume or a MAM query or whatever it decides is the best way to fetch messages for a particular room
  977. SamWhited And being smart about highlights would negate the feeling on the users part that it was no longer realtime, I would think
  978. SamWhited Anyways, just thinking out loud; I'd be really curious to see the results of your battery saving experiment Maranda.
  979. Holger Well no idea, as I said I wasn't aware of these network windows. My assumption was that Conversations either manages to keep the TCP connection alive, or if it doesn't, waits for FCM notifications.
  980. Maranda SamWhited, sure, you actually made me find a bug too.
  981. SamWhited There has been a new major Android version or two since I looked at any of this too, so it's possible I'm just spouting out of date lore. I vaguely remember daniel saying he was going to update to the new battery savig things, which could be different.
  982. Holger SamWhited: But Conversations' implementation isn't really relevant anyway. The server can't assume the client will behave one way or another, so I think it's hairy for the server's CSI/push code to suppress groupchat notifications if you're not highlighted.
  983. SamWhited I dunno, the server has to pick some behavior for the client to work against; this seems as good of a behavior as any. It at least gives the option for mobile clients to manage their network usage efficiently.
  984. SamWhited (I'm also operating under the assumption that this only applies to mobile, but I have no idea if there's even a reasonable way for the server to know that)
  985. neshtaxmpp my friend looking closely in https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368: find this # 442 is a https port (nginx, apache, etc) " If writer think that write only 442 is a https " reader will not know what this mean. becouse in first please when my friend was reading say what is this: 442, when apache2 run on 443, but after conversatoin with didn't remember name is some sort or filter becouse apache2 use 443 and sslh need to pass this information from 442 to 443. In the moment it didn't explained better, becouse include it lost in writing this message
  986. Holger SamWhited: Sorry but this sounds weirdo to me.
  987. Holger SamWhited: You can't seriously argue the server's CSI code should blindly assume the client will go <active/> once a minute just because there's some Android feature some Android client might or might not be using.
  988. SamWhited It has nothing to do with an Android feature specifically, but yah, giving them the option to enable/disable sending large volumes of messages (whether that's with a stream resume, an active CSI element, etc.) seems reasonable.
  989. SamWhited I don't know what specific configuration will work best though with what specific platforms
  990. daniel Holger, SamWhited: what Holger is mostly correct. The doze windows are much wider apart than a minute. So Conversations tries to get an exception or if that doesn't work rely on push
  991. daniel Push will always wake up the device
  992. daniel No matter the doze state
  993. SamWhited Maybe only sending a push every X messages (unless there's a highlight or other important event) is the trigger then
  994. SamWhited I like the idea of queuing messages anyways and would love to see how that plays out. I doubt most people need strict realtime (or maybe you could be smart about the type of room: if it's a private room with 3 people in it, push for every message, if not every 3 minutes in which there are 100 messages, or something)
  995. Holger SamWhited: If we think clients should have the option to suppress/throttle actual message delivery then we need a new XEP, IMO.
  996. SamWhited I don't think the clients need the option, that's too granular. I think servers just need to be smart about the state of a client
  997. Holger SamWhited: This is not about strict realtime. With Maranda's solution you won't be notified of groupchat messages until you re-open the app manually. At all.
  998. SamWhited And clients can of course work within that behavior to get whatever results they desire
  999. Holger Totally disagree :-)
  1000. SamWhited Holger: that's what I'm questioning. You'll get it when doze wakes you up, or when you get a push notification as well
  1001. SamWhited I'm wondering if that's "good enough"
  1002. SamWhited I agree that if you only get it when you open the app that is a problem
  1003. daniel Is battery consumption even a problem?
  1004. Maranda Holger, or until you get hilighted visually that'll affect the number on the conversations icon
  1005. Holger SamWhited: I'm basically never mentioned explicitly in the WhatsApp groups I'm in. Yet I definitely want notifications. "Hey all, the meeting tomorrow is cancelled!"
  1006. daniel That can be fixed by limiting the messages
  1007. Holger SamWhited: And I believe that's an expectation many typical WhatsApp users have.
  1008. SamWhited Holger: but do you need it right this minute, or 5 minutes from now? I suspect that for most people a few minutes is okay.
  1009. Maranda Which I'm not sure about the usefulness of, but if by default private groups always toast well
  1010. SamWhited But what daniel said is also a good point, I have no idea maybe this is solving a problem that doesn't exist.
  1011. SamWhited which is why I'd be curious to see the result of the battery drain experiment Maranda mentioned
  1012. SamWhited I should find an IRC bridge and subscribe to #arch or some other huge active channel and see what happens to my battery
  1013. daniel There are a few mobile specific optimizations that I would like to see eventually. But throttling the number of stanzas is not really one of them
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  1015. Maranda SamWhited, it's configurable via adhoc anyways here it's just question to decide if it should be by default enabled or not.
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  1018. SamWhited Maranda: does this already exist somewhere that I could experiment with?
  1019. SamWhited has left
  1020. Maranda SamWhited, I added also the configurable option to filter all bodyless chat states in CSI in any state
  1021. Maranda Metronome's tip but I need to fix a quirk with SM I just found :P
  1022. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  1023. Maranda (or rather you made me find)
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  1026. SamWhited Glad I could be of service
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  1031. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: clearly if you expect sslh to multiplex 443 it has to listen on 443
  1032. moparisthebest That doesn't need spelled out
  1033. moparisthebest You don't need to be a programmer, but you do need to understand ports to host services
  1034. Maranda SamWhited, ok fixed the possible desync with SM queue, now you can play with it if you want ;)
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  1060. Maranda ... and also fixed inadvertedly broken presence queues 🤷‍♂️ hehe
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  1062. neshtaxmpp this is my friend log sslh: https://bgzashtita.es/tefter/?67c4fee71371a4b6#aoQA4OGoy4+iiqfa3hmXYe48ST8nyz1IDO+D9n2Ptag=
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  1064. Maranda SamWhited, ok all sorted the other thing I need to figure is how much resource usage increase that causes on the server and the right default queue limit to use before flushing, for now I'm going with a large default queue limit (1000)
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  1097. neshtaxmpp we are nearly there....
  1098. neshtaxmpp Secure Connection Failed An error occurred during a connection to bgzashtita.es. SSL received a record that exceeded the maximum permissible length. Error code: SSL_ERROR_RX_RECORD_TOO_LONG
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  1121. neshtaxmpp sslh[20369]: forward to ssl failed:connect: Connection refused it is becouse apache2 443 is bussy with sslh
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  1133. Maranda SamWhited: oh also this stuff non is also currently running on lightwitch.org you could create an account there too, sorry forgot
  1134. Maranda s/non//
  1135. Maranda growls about auto completion messing up
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  1249. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: if you come back, sslh must use port 443
  1250. moparisthebest Meaning Apache has to go to another port, it doesn't have to be port 442 but it can't stay here
  1251. neshtaxmpp moparisbest yes we know that from 30 min.
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  1255. moparisthebest 2 computers isn't a problem, but that might mean if Apache isn't on the same server as sslh both can use 443
  1256. moparisthebest Just put the actual hostname instead of localhost
  1257. moparisthebest Sslh has to run on port 443
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  1260. moparisthebest Ah now I look insane like I'm taking to myself because you are whispering and I just noticed
  1261. moparisthebest I blame that on daniel :D
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  1263. moparisthebest neshtaxmpp: you really only need sslh on 1 computer, probably the one publically accessible
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