XSF Discussion - 2018-09-20


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  102. ralphm Steve Kille: yes, that's why I said: you can have multiple different identities and disco extension forms in one result.
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  104. ralphm Not convinced yet you need node='mix' "to make this work".
  105. jonas’ indeed, merged information could work just as well
  106. ralphm The problem I have with the current solution is that I can't just discover from an unknown JID that it is a MIX room. I'd have to know, somehow, for the MIX specific information.
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  114. Steve Kille ralphm: I don't have time to look at the MIX spec this week and consider this point. I will review next week. Shall I respond in the MUC or by email to the list?
  115. ralphm I was already drafting it
  116. Steve Kille ta
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  127. ralphm To be found at https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-September/035355.html
  128. Steve Kille ralphm: ta. Will respond next week
  129. ralphm Cool
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  146. Maranda SamWhited: battery usage reduction with heavy muc usage is consistent between 50-60% on my device with those optimizations using Conversations btw
  147. Ge0rG Maranda: what optimizations?
  148. Maranda I just had to adjust the queue max buffer amount to make it less detrimental to notifications as well
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  150. Ge0rG I don't understand
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  153. Maranda Ge0rG: gimme the time to type will you?
  154. Maranda 🤸‍♂️
  155. Ge0rG Maranda: sorry, I misunderstood your sentence as a response to my question. If only we had threads!
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  160. Maranda Ge0rG: presence deduplicated queuing, filtering of bodyless message payloads, and queuing of all groupchat type messages except mentions basically (anything not meeting criterias triggers a flush)
  161. Maranda Ge0rG: that's the optimization
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  164. Ge0rG Maranda: okay, nothing surprising here. What's the baseline you are measuring against?
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  166. Maranda (CSI obviously)
  167. Ge0rG Maranda: also do you flush MUC OMEMO immediately?
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  169. Ge0rG Maranda: CSI is not a baseline, it's a signaling mechanism
  170. jonas’ (the "(CSI obviously)" was obviously not meant in response to your baseline request)
  171. jonas’ (because it had parenthesis and doesn’t make sense as an answer)
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  174. Ge0rG Maybe I should remove myself from the discussion then, I fail to process what I'm reading.
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  176. Maranda Ge0rG: for now I just tested on my server and gathered numbers from my own usage as I said, hard to find people willing to be sample subjects 😜
  177. Ge0rG Maranda: you make a prosody module, I deploy it.
  178. Maranda Ge0rG: 😆
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  187. Maranda I implement both (part of) SIFT and CSI in the same module while Prosody has several submodules hookin' on mod_csi so I'd have to look if porting of portions of the current code is viable
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  189. Ge0rG Maranda: what do you need SIFT for?
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  192. MattJ Ha, SIFT
  193. Maranda Ge0rG: allowing clients to decide which stanzas to filter but since there're 0 implementations as usual I guess: "nothing"
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  201. Maranda SIFT was supposed to replace part of the featureset provided by Privacy Lists afair
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  213. !xsf_martin > Maranda: you make a prosody module, I deploy it. Me too
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  322. pep. > Ge0rG> Maranda: sorry, I misunderstood your sentence as a response to my question. If only we had threads! haha.
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  346. MattJ Who do we have today?
  347. ralphm Hi!
  348. MattJ \o
  349. ralphm bangs gavel
  350. nyco _o/
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  352. Guus hi!
  353. MattJ Ok, all we need now is Martin to appear :)
  354. ralphm set the topic to XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  355. ralphm 0. Welcome + Agenda
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  357. ralphm Welcome all. Apologies for not being here for a fit.
  358. ralphm bit
  359. ralphm Things should be more quiet (schedule-wise) going forward.
  360. nyco no pb
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  365. ralphm Anything in particular we should discuss today?
  366. ralphm Elections come to mind
  367. nyco Board prios... for next term
  368. Dave Cridland has left
  369. Guus one sec, someone at door
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  371. nyco https://trello.com/c/Al4GHsYy/311-proposed-prios-for-the-2018-2019-board-based-on-survey
  372. ralphm nods
  373. jonas’ how’s the survey going?
  374. MattJ jonas’, results were posted here quite a while back
  375. MattJ Current discussion is what actions to take based on the results
  376. jonas’ oh
  377. jonas’ I must’ve missed them
  378. jonas’ were they also posted to members@?
  379. MattJ It's nearing the end of this term, but it would be good to get a head-start with some recommendations for the next Board
  380. jonas’ if not, posting them to members@ would be nice
  381. MattJ Not sure, if not I can dig them up in a bit
  382. ralphm Since we're kind of there:
  383. MattJ The minutes should have linked to them, but our minutes have been a bit sketchy as of late
  384. ralphm 1. Survey
  385. Guus (back)
  386. ralphm I read the summary on the Trello ticket. Seems reasonable.
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  388. MattJ Yeah, I think we generally agreed with that. Concrete actions are harder to recommend
  389. ralphm Except I think the Board's first priority is always what is listed as 2 here: Organisation (9) => bureaucracy, funding
  390. MattJ A lot of things circle back to our finance situation, at the end of the day
  391. ralphm For 3 (standards development) we have Council and Editors
  392. MattJ I think the key is for Board to enable these things to happen
  393. ralphm I am indeed not sure what Board specifically can do itself for the other two points.
  394. ralphm Right
  395. ralphm We'd still need other people to make thing happen. E.g. I am really happy with the newsletter by JC and others
  396. MattJ Well I think the big thing the survey highlighted for me is that everyone agrees there should be more IRL events
  397. ralphm So basically we need to spice up SCAM
  398. MattJ pep. organised an unofficial hackathon, which was great... and hopefully we will have some more
  399. MattJ It was unclear whether these events can draw from SCAM, so I think that is one thing we can discuss
  400. Guus Actually, the should be
  401. MattJ I'm not even sure it's unclear to me, just that it could be more explicit
  402. Guus (able to draw from SCAM)
  403. ralphm Well, at least for promotion
  404. Guus but we have not much of protocol nor history, which makes it hard for people to know what to expect from SCAM
  405. MattJ I don't want to speak for pep., but for example I suspect it could be clearer what process he would have needed to go through
  406. ralphm if there are things needed, like materials, why not see if the XSF can help out there
  407. MattJ I think things turned out just fine as they were (Collabora sponsored it generally), but for future reference at least it would be good to get this more organised
  408. nyco I think and believe we (XSF) should let go some stuff I mean software we are a bunch of low level developers, doing low level stuff, like protocols we are not bad at it (could be better, always) I think and believe we need to catalyse higher steps in the software stacks like bring in developers who are not protocol-minded or protocol-oriented we need software developers who are into better UX and UI we need to test and improve things end-to-end it may be time to revive "Modern XMPP" except there should be no "XMPP" in the title because once again that focusses on the protocol let's focus on chat and chat alone, start from here, improve things, one step at a time
  409. Guus Agreed - it's on one of my many to-do lists (with SCAM hat on)
  410. Guus what do you mean with "letting go software" ?
  411. MattJ nyco, "Modern XMPP" (if you refer to my talk some time ago) is not dead, nor is it an XSF activity
  412. nyco I know
  413. edhelas XMPP 2.0
  414. MattJ and since it targets developers, neither should it be rebranded (though a user facing brand is a separate issue that the XSF may or may not want to tackle)
  415. ralphm nyco: yes, I think the XSF remains primarily a standards organisation, and there's always been debate if we can/should be at the center of development
  416. nyco not "XMPP 2.0", because it focusses on the protocol
  417. ralphm We made a more or less explicit choice here when we went from Jabber Software Foundation to XMPP Standards Foundation.
  418. nyco XSJ used to be JSF
  419. nyco oh the glorious days
  420. MattJ There is a lot of uncertainty about the Jabber trademark... some people use it, some refuse to
  421. Guus ralphm: I don't understand, or see that debate. We're not developing software as the XSF - apart from some tooling for our own benefit?
  422. nyco we can start an informal movement, see where it goes
  423. Ge0rG ralphm: was it an explicit decision back then?
  424. ralphm Guus: well, for example, should we promote certain implementations?Tthat's what has come up numerous times.
  425. Ge0rG nyco: do you have the man power for that?
  426. nyco not the XSF
  427. MattJ ralphm, the survey fairly clearly indicated that people value the XSF's neutrality
  428. Guus Ralphm: but we do not, and agreed recently to will not change that.
  429. nyco Ge0rG that's what I am working on
  430. ralphm Ge0rG: from my recollection, yes
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  432. ralphm Guus: indeed, and I think that supports what nyco said in his wall-of-text
  433. Ge0rG I've called out for a new Jabber Software Foundation to care about UX and branding and supporting developers for some years now.
  434. nyco Ge0rG I know, let's just do it
  435. ralphm Just like our protocol is distributed, there's no reason for a software organisation to exist next to the XSF
  436. Guus I'm not against people doing things like that - but that'll be out of scope of the XSF, won't it?
  437. MattJ Ge0rG, calling out helps a lot :)
  438. Guus (so by all means, go for it, but lets not make it a topic here?)
  439. MattJ ralphm, assume you meant "not to exist"
  440. ralphm *not* to exist
  441. nyco there's no reason for a software organisation NOT to exist next to the XSF
  442. nyco Guus indeed, I think it is out of the scope of the XSF, not the XSF to decide
  443. ralphm (well, we got that clear, phew)
  444. MattJ I think everyone agrees with this, and pep. and I have been looking into it a little
  445. ralphm I have some ideas, too, but not as part of the XSF indeed.
  446. Guus if we all agree that this is not a matter for the XSF and thus its board - let's move on? 🙂
  447. MattJ Yep :)
  448. nyco yes
  449. ralphm So, going back to the topic, we can conclude that we *do* want to continue supporting community events
  450. ralphm For now, I'm looking forward to FOSDEM again.
  451. pep. Sorry I'm at work, can't follow all this, I'll try to reply later if necessary
  452. Guus FOSDEM + summit
  453. ralphm As a FYI: the real-time peeps have requested a Realtime Devroom again, and I will do the same for the Lounge
  454. ralphm 2. FOSDEM + Summit
  455. MattJ Thanks ralphm
  456. ralphm Guus: let's get kicking for this, hopefully preparing better and getting more people there
  457. Guus agreed
  458. ralphm Ideas welcome, of course
  459. Guus let's do that in SCAM context
  460. Guus (I want to ping Seve about some of his ideas he had last year)
  461. ralphm scam@muc.xmpp.org as always
  462. Guus agreed
  463. ralphm 3. Elections
  464. Guus When is our tenure over?
  465. ralphm It is September again, so I guess we need to invoke Alex to start up the process
  466. ralphm Early November I think
  467. Guus ok
  468. ralphm 4. AOB
  469. ralphm Anything else?
  470. nyco POSS ?
  471. nyco Paris Open Source Summit
  472. nyco or next meeting?
  473. Guus nyco, take that to SCAM?
  474. ralphm SCAM first indeed
  475. Guus no need for the board to decide on that, I think?
  476. ralphm then Board if needed
  477. nyco oh yes, of course, sorry
  478. Guus no AOB from me
  479. ralphm 5. Date of Next
  480. ralphm +1W
  481. ralphm 6. Close
  482. nyco +1
  483. ralphm Thanks all!
  484. nyco thx!
  485. Guus wfm
  486. ralphm bangs gavel
  487. MattJ Thanks ralphm
  488. ralphm Good to be back :-D
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  490. ralphm set the topic to XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  491. MattJ Good to have you back :)
  492. Guus plz apply same magic to Martin
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  494. ralphm Oh, who can make minutes?
  495. MattJ I'll add it to my backlog
  496. MattJ Once I get going it's fine, I'll probably push them all out in a batch once I'm done with what I'm currently doing
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  503. ralphm yay
  504. nyco thx MattJ
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  509. jonas’ MattJ, the last minutes sent to members@ only had "Draft a membership survey on priorities." :(
  510. jonas’ so... yeah
  511. jonas’ please re-send the survey results to members@ when you get around to it
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