Saturday, September 22, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[10:43:32] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
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[10:45:33] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[10:53:25] *** lovetox shows as "chat" and his status message is "asdasd"
[10:54:21] *** lovetox shows as "chat" and his status message is "asdasd"
[10:55:27] *** Guus has left the room
[10:55:27] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[10:58:34] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[11:03:59] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:04:07] *** lnj shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[11:04:10] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[11:05:14] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[11:05:19] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[11:05:33] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[11:09:50] *** Guus shows as "online"
[11:09:50] *** nyco shows as "online"
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[11:10:53] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[11:11:52] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[11:14:07] *** lnj shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[11:14:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:16:00] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:16:23] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:18:29] *** lnj shows as "online"
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[11:21:15] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[11:21:47] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[11:26:32] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:27:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[11:28:46] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:29:07] *** cookie shows as "online"
[11:29:07] *** cookie shows as "online"
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[11:29:19] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[11:33:00] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[11:34:41] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[11:38:54] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[11:44:16] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[11:45:36] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[11:45:46] *** Guus has left the room
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[11:52:48] *** jjrh shows as "online"
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[11:54:00] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[11:55:43] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[11:56:42] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[11:57:12] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[12:01:36] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[12:04:43] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
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[12:06:23] <marc> Anyone an idea how xep401 can be combined with IBR CAPTCHA?
[12:07:12] *** alexis has left the room
[12:08:22] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[12:13:13] *** alexis has left the room
[12:13:34] *** Seve/SouL shows as "online"
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[12:19:38] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[12:35:56] *** equil shows as "online"
[12:37:13] *** lovetox shows as "chat" and his status message is "asdasd"
[12:39:06] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[12:40:22] *** lovetox shows as "chat" and his status message is "asdasd"
[12:41:51] *** alexis has joined the room
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[12:47:16] *** lovetox shows as "chat" and his status message is "asdasd"
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[12:48:18] *** lovetox shows as "chat" and his status message is "asdasd"
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[12:49:45] *** equil shows as "online"
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[12:53:20] *** lovetox shows as "chat" and his status message is "asdasd"
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[12:55:25] *** lovetox shows as "chat" and his status message is "asdasd"
[12:58:10] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[12:59:50] *** lnj shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[13:00:14] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:06:35] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[13:08:29] *** Guus shows as "online"
[13:09:06] *** Guus has left the room
[13:09:07] *** Guus shows as "online"
[13:09:12] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[13:09:49] *** lnj shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[13:11:46] *** alacer has left the room
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[13:17:08] *** nyco shows as "online"
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[13:21:46] *** Neustradamus shows as "away"
[13:22:15] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[13:22:28] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[13:22:34] <lovetox> asd
[13:23:07] *** alexis has left the room
[13:25:33] <jonas’> g
[13:25:35] <jonas’> f
[13:27:10] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[13:29:27] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[13:36:14] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[13:44:19] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[13:44:34] *** alexis has joined the room
[13:44:34] *** Seve/SouL shows as "online"
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[13:47:31] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[13:51:33] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[13:51:45] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[13:53:35] *** Guus shows as "online"
[13:54:30] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
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[13:57:08] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[13:57:40] *** lnj shows as "online"
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[14:09:02] *** daniel has left the room
[14:09:06] *** daniel has joined the room
[14:09:22] *** lnj shows as "online"
[14:10:18] *** alexis has joined the room
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[14:14:47] *** alexis has joined the room
[14:14:47] *** lnj shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[14:15:21] *** lnj shows as "online"
[14:15:24] *** daniel has left the room
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[14:16:48] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:18:05] *** alacer has left the room
[14:18:07] *** alacer has joined the room
[14:18:58] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[14:24:19] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:24:19] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[14:27:10] *** Guus has left the room
[14:27:11] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[14:28:54] *** lnj shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[14:29:38] *** alacer has left the room
[14:33:51] *** Guus shows as "online"
[14:35:39] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:37:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[14:38:53] *** lnj shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[14:40:49] *** daniel shows as "online"
[14:44:07] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[14:45:26] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[14:47:15] *** lnj shows as "online"
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[14:48:50] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[14:52:46] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:53:07] *** alexis has left the room
[14:53:22] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[14:54:15] *** alexis has joined the room
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[14:54:48] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:54:49] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[14:56:39] *** lnj shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[14:56:46] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[14:59:34] *** Neustradamus shows as "away"
[14:59:37] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[15:00:59] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[15:01:44] *** jjrh has left the room
[15:01:51] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[15:02:39] *** alexis has joined the room
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[15:03:20] *** alacer has joined the room
[15:05:06] *** alexis has left the room
[15:05:35] *** alexis has joined the room
[15:06:39] *** lnj shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[15:07:16] *** 404.city has joined the room
[15:09:50] *** alexis has left the room
[15:11:25] *** Guus has left the room
[15:11:25] *** Guus shows as "online"
[15:12:46] *** Guus has left the room
[15:13:28] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:13:56] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[15:13:56] *** apach has left the room
[15:13:57] *** apach shows as "online"
[15:14:07] *** alexis has joined the room
[15:15:06] *** Neustradamus has left the room
[15:15:35] <!xsf_martin> ghjkl
[15:16:07] *** l has joined the room
[15:17:30] *** 404.city shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:19:29] *** jjrh has left the room
[15:19:40] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[15:23:59] *** Guus shows as "online"
[15:25:18] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:25:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[15:26:08] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:26:56] *** Guus shows as "online"
[15:27:30] *** 404.city shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:27:35] *** tux has left the room
[15:27:35] *** tux shows as "online"
[15:27:59] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[15:31:04] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[15:31:20] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[15:32:34] *** tux has left the room
[15:32:36] *** tux shows as "online"
[15:33:07] *** Alex has joined the room
[15:33:36] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:34:14] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[15:35:42] *** andrey.g has left the room
[15:37:41] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:38:08] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[15:39:39] *** Guus has left the room
[15:39:39] *** Guus shows as "online"
[15:39:41] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[15:39:50] *** alexis has left the room
[15:42:46] *** Guus has left the room
[15:42:54] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[15:43:23] *** lskdjf has left the room
[15:44:24] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:44:56] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[15:45:17] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[15:46:24] *** Guus shows as "online"
[15:46:55] *** equil shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:48:31] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:49:50] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[15:55:48] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:55:49] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[15:56:55] *** equil shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:59:38] *** Guus has left the room
[15:59:38] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:00:41] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[16:01:32] *** labdsf has left the room
[16:02:48] *** Alex has left the room
[16:03:06] *** Neustradamus has left the room
[16:03:55] *** equil shows as "online"
[16:04:32] *** Neustradamus has joined the room
[16:06:46] *** Guus has left the room
[16:08:35] *** valo has joined the room
[16:11:12] *** j.r has joined the room
[16:11:19] *** equil shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:11:23] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:12:42] *** marc has joined the room
[16:14:15] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:16:55] *** equil shows as "online"
[16:21:05] *** Guus has left the room
[16:21:06] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:21:55] *** equil shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:22:26] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:22:41] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:23:13] *** l has left the room
[16:23:16] *** l has joined the room
[16:23:45] *** equil shows as "online"
[16:25:42] *** SamWhited has left the room
[16:25:42] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[16:25:58] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[16:26:18] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:26:19] *** Yagiza has left the room
[16:26:21] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:27:04] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:27:09] *** Seve/SouL has left the room
[16:27:11] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[16:27:22] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[16:28:57] *** Yagiza has left the room
[16:29:25] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[16:29:35] *** apach has left the room
[16:29:35] *** apach shows as "online"
[16:29:38] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:29:38] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[16:29:41] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:30:16] *Maranda has no clue what xep 401 is about tbh, *goes looking*
[16:30:46] *** Guus has left the room
[16:30:50] <Maranda> Oh that nasty thing
[16:32:20] *** js has joined the room
[16:32:42] *** js shows as "online"
[16:33:07] *** alacer has left the room
[16:33:58] <Maranda> marc, you present the captcha challenge in the returned form after account creation? (5.4 / Example 6)
[16:34:12] <Maranda> marc, you present the captcha challenge in the returned form after account creation request? (5.4 / Example 6)
[16:35:08] <Maranda> marc, and s/IBR Captcha/XEP-158/
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[17:03:30] <marc> Maranda: nasty?
[17:05:59] <Maranda> The xep number is nasty for sure 😜
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[17:09:46] <marc> 😶
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[17:15:40] <Maranda> (and for all the security implications it has, so 401 is befitting :P)
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[17:49:22] <marc> Has anybody more useful / non-trolling comments / ideas?
[17:50:33] <Zash> Abort, Retry, Ignore
[17:52:37] <Zash> marc: Sorry. I didn't notice the original question. And I tought 301 at first.
[17:53:15] <Zash> Captcha for whom? And why?
[17:56:44] <marc> Zash: I think capcha should at least be supported during ibr via invitation to avoid automatic account creation on public services
[17:57:45] <marc> But it's not possible to advertise captcha and 401 in ibr if I understand the XEP correctly
[17:59:42] <Zash> Why do you think that?
[18:00:07] <Zash> Would the one creating the invite be the one doing the captcha or the one being invited?
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[18:01:25] <Zash> With reservation for not having read it in detail recently, I see there are forms, can you stick media elements in those?
[18:01:33] <Zash> Or however captchas work
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[18:30:51] <marc> Zash: the invitee I would say
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[18:46:16] <Maranda> marc, the fact you should return the xep-158 captcha in the presented form in request response is trolling are you serious?
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[18:52:17] <Maranda> ibr needs to be secured it doesn't need captcha, there're other ways to protect from automated registrations
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[18:57:47] <Maranda> The security concern in that xep *is spam bots* potentially abusing invites, IBR being flawed is another matter
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[19:13:04] <Maranda> and should you be concerned about captcha support in clients just use another out of band verification, e.g. email/token based, and have users insert the token in the invite form. The same goes for IBR, you need to support dataforms to use this XEP anyways and same goes for server needing to support extended IBR fields.
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[19:13:45] <Zash> I'd suggest rather limiting the number of invites that can be sent (per user and/or time)
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[19:14:08] <Zash> Combine with marketing to make them seem exclusive
[19:14:20] <Maranda> Zash, you can easily go around that e.g. 1 spam bot registering can send at least one invite out.
[19:14:33] <Maranda> I had this discussion when this xep got brought out time ago.
[19:14:51] <Maranda> I had this same argument when this xep got brought out time ago.
[19:15:15] <Zash> If the goal is to make it easy for users, it will also make it easy for spammers. No way around that.
[19:15:24] <Maranda> Indeed
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[19:16:53] <Zash> If they do exploit it that way, then the data of who invited who could be used to find potentially related spam bot accounts
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[19:17:02] *Maranda is particularly against not making clearer in the XEP only admins should be able to create accounts
[19:17:12] <Maranda> or rather pre-create accounts
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[19:17:35] <Zash> That sounds like it should be up to local policy
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[19:22:19] <Maranda> Anyways if the problem is media elements support in forms by clients you can easily solve that OOB. (and any protection obviously makes it a "Less Easier User Onboarding")
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[19:46:21] <marc> Okay, seems that I implement it without captcha first :-/
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