Friday, October 05, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[07:06:10] <nyco> Matrix is blindly attacking XMPP again
https://twitter.com/matrixdotorg/status/1048103304402808832
I've answered
if you wanna do so as well, I suggest with facts and politely
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[07:08:54] <daniel> 50k concurrent? That sound like they are bashing themselves 😂
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[07:13:22] <Ge0rG> My server doesn't have 50k concurrent users.
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[07:17:44] <Holger> nyco: I think he means their server "does a lot more" per user than an XMPP server. So what he's trying to say is that not only Synapse is scaling badly but the protocol as well. I'll cite that next time someone tells me that Go will fix everything 😉
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[07:21:22] <nyco> yeah, and XMPP federation just works, and has been proven at large scale (with Google and Facebook, probably tens of millions of users, I wouldn't bet hundreds of millions)
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[07:28:10] <Maranda> 50k with what? 2-3 TiBs of RAM? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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[07:29:38] <daniel> It scales very well. Just add more ram. Ram is cheao
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[07:30:31] <Ge0rG> nyco: I'm not sure Facebook ever had federation. And the Google one was quirky all the way
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[07:33:28] <nyco> I don't wanna brag or bash... but the Matrix ecosystem has tried hard to develop a "homeserver" (the name says a lot... but it may only be related to the beginnings, the ambition having changed meanwhile) for years now: Synapse (under active development), Dendron (abandoned), Dendrite (Dendron done Right, a re-write, seems quite stalled), and the very new servers that are all in their infancy Ruma, The Construct, Plasma, jeon
let them mature at their own pace
[07:33:44] <nyco> Ge0rG oh right, I remember it was just C2S connectivity, right?
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[07:35:12] <Ge0rG> nyco: exactly
[07:35:14] <Maranda> Microsoft at one point too for Live Messenger
[07:35:25] <nyco> Ge0rG thx for correcting
[07:37:00] <nyco> Maranda ah maybe, that may come from a long forgotten memory... well, for sure, Microsoft did XMPP (and SIP) federation with OCS (Office Communications Servers) or Lync
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[07:37:41] <Ge0rG> I still wonder if I can get XMPP federation with my o365 business account.
[07:38:10] <nyco> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype_for_Business_Server#XMPP
[07:39:47] <nyco> Ge0rG well, my bet is, now that IM has greatly evolved with Team Chat (or EIM, Enterprise Instant Messaging), having lots of mini-features, the many players are uneven in terms of how these mini-features behave
so that would be a nightmare, basic features would work
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[07:43:47] <Ge0rG> nyco: I actually tried Teams out for some days, and even its integration with Lync was horrible
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[09:42:06] *** thorsten shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:44:03] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[09:44:04] *** karp shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work"
[09:44:35] *** dwd has joined the room
[09:49:41] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:49:55] *** andy shows as "online"
[09:52:57] *** ralphm shows as "online"
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[09:58:47] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
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[09:59:30] *** dwd has left the room
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[10:00:23] *** thorsten has left the room
[10:00:52] *** thorsten shows as "online"
[10:02:00] *** dwd has left the room
[10:05:12] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[10:08:23] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[10:09:18] *** APach shows as "online"
[10:10:46] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[10:12:26] *** andy shows as "away"
[10:14:55] *** Str4tocaster has joined the room
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[10:16:55] *** lskdjf has left the room
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[10:17:24] *** andy shows as "xa"
[10:20:18] *** Str4tocaster has joined the room
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[10:22:54] *** APach has left the room
[10:25:55] *** lumi has left the room
[10:27:10] *** Valerian has joined the room
[10:31:02] *** intosi shows as "online"
[10:32:00] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:32:44] *** Valerian has left the room
[10:34:16] *** Valerian has joined the room
[10:34:58] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:38:37] *** andy shows as "online"
[10:39:21] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[10:39:25] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[10:40:06] *** l has left the room
[10:41:15] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:41:44] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[10:41:49] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[10:42:44] *** lskdjf has left the room
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[10:43:56] *** marc has left the room
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[10:46:05] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:46:13] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[10:46:48] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[10:47:27] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:50:31] *** dwd has joined the room
[10:54:42] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[10:55:20] *** karp shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work"
[10:57:21] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[10:57:54] *** karp shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work"
[11:00:20] *** Valerian has left the room
[11:02:45] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[11:03:16] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[11:03:26] *** muppeth has left the room
[11:05:11] *** blabla shows as "online"
[11:07:01] *** j.r has joined the room
[11:11:05] *** blabla has left the room
[11:11:28] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[11:12:37] *** l shows as "online"
[11:13:37] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[11:15:18] *** muppeth has joined the room
[11:16:18] *** 404.city has left the room
[11:18:05] *** andy shows as "away"
[11:18:48] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:18:56] *** intosi shows as "online"
[11:20:15] *** lnj has left the room
[11:20:46] *** lnj has joined the room
[11:23:06] *** andy shows as "xa"
[11:23:40] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[11:28:20] *** Valerian has joined the room
[11:30:18] *** andy shows as "online"
[11:33:40] *** APach shows as "online"
[11:38:00] *** Zash shows as "online"
[11:38:03] *** Zash shows as "online"
[11:38:13] *** andy shows as "away"
[11:43:14] *** andy shows as "xa"
[11:44:46] *** andy shows as "online"
[11:44:46] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[11:44:54] *** lskdjf has left the room
[11:56:36] *** remko has joined the room
[11:56:39] *** remko shows as "online"
[11:58:00] *** j.r has joined the room
[12:00:23] *** muppeth has joined the room
[12:00:46] *** karp shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work"
[12:02:02] *** 404.city has joined the room
[12:03:38] *** karp shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work"
[12:06:02] *** andy has left the room
[12:06:02] *** andy has joined the room
[12:13:12] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:15:04] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[12:16:07] *** thorsten has left the room
[12:16:08] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:18:07] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:18:35] *** Kev shows as "away"
[12:19:22] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:31:47] *** moparisthebest has left the room
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[12:34:38] *** andy shows as "away"
[12:35:04] *** rion shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[12:37:26] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:39:05] *** valo has joined the room
[12:39:16] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:39:36] *** andy shows as "xa"
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[12:40:36] *** matlag shows as "online"
[12:41:52] *** andy shows as "online"
[12:43:11] *** Kev shows as "online"
[12:43:30] *** Valerian has left the room
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[12:44:20] *** Valerian has left the room
[12:47:26] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:52:12] *** rion shows as "online"
[12:53:35] *** lovetox has joined the room
[12:56:16] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:57:04] *** karp shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work"
[13:01:10] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[13:01:20] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[13:01:40] *** karp shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work"
[13:03:53] *** j.r has left the room
[13:04:20] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:04:51] *** intosi shows as "online"
[13:04:56] *** j.r has joined the room
[13:11:28] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:11:38] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[13:11:39] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[13:11:52] *** intosi shows as "online"
[13:12:30] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[13:13:27] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:19:49] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
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[13:22:31] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[13:22:40] *** ralphm shows as "online"
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[13:28:50] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:30:24] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:31:24] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[13:32:29] *** rion shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[13:34:58] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:36:40] *** ralphm has left the room
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[13:42:38] *** karp shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work"
[13:42:41] *** rion shows as "online"
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[14:02:29] *** lskdjf has left the room
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[14:13:41] *** SamWhited has left the room
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[14:13:51] *** matlag shows as "online"
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[14:19:24] *** lovetox shows as "online"
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[14:23:48] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
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[14:29:35] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
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[14:39:52] *** matlag shows as "online"
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[14:50:17] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[14:52:49] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[14:55:06] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[14:57:28] *** 404.city shows as "away" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:59:44] *** lumi shows as "online"
[15:02:28] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[15:09:46] *** 404.city shows as "away" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:16:35] *** lskdjf has left the room
[15:18:28] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[15:18:51] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[15:18:59] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[15:19:28] *** lumi shows as "online"
[15:20:05] *** l has left the room
[15:20:18] *** intosi shows as "online"
[15:24:29] *** winfried has joined the room
[15:24:37] *** Valerian shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:24:58] *** karp shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work"
[15:25:06] <edhelas> I have an issue regarding the changes that I'm doing to the MUC Avatar XEP (that is currently in Inbox) https://github.com/edhelas/xeps/commit/a776a6b3600305067400f52cc2f9a059f9139338#diff-5f89805e586ecd845ea99f0c89f337bcR142 (see https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-September/035361.html for more info)
[15:25:27] *** karp has left the room
[15:25:28] <edhelas> I'm wondering how a vcard could be published to a Pubsub node
[15:26:37] *** Valerian has left the room
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[15:28:28] *** matlag shows as "online"
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[15:30:18] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:30:18] *** Valerian shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:31:22] *** Valerian shows as "online"
[15:31:27] *** matlag has left the room
[15:31:28] *** matlag shows as "online"
[15:33:51] <moparisthebest> Ge0rG: we tried out Microsoft teams, so fancy but basic chat was so bad it was essentially unusable
[15:34:11] *** Valerian shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:34:36] <moparisthebest> Like each message can be a thread, but if you reply to an older one, it pulls it out of its former place in history
[15:34:50] <moparisthebest> Then scrolling back and reading makes no sense
[15:35:03] <moparisthebest> Among other things
[15:35:20] *** mightyBroccoli has joined the room
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[16:02:46] *** 404.city shows as "away" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:04:40] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:04:50] *** Valerian shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
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[16:23:03] *** lnj shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[16:24:05] *** Kev shows as "away"
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[16:25:01] *** 404.city shows as "away" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:25:04] *** Tobias shows as "online"
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[16:30:07] *** matlag shows as "online"
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[16:30:53] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:33:03] *** lnj shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[16:34:21] *** 404.city shows as "online"
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[16:43:03] *** l shows as "online"
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[16:49:10] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:49:31] *** lnj shows as "online"
[16:49:57] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:50:34] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:50:37] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:53:33] *** lnj shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[16:55:40] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:58:03] *** thorsten has left the room
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[17:01:03] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[17:03:33] *** lnj shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[17:04:08] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
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[17:04:56] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
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[17:05:01] *** dwd has joined the room
[17:05:11] *** lnj shows as "online"
[17:06:37] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[17:06:46] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[17:07:26] *** karp has left the room
[17:10:56] *** jjrh has left the room
[17:10:57] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[17:12:16] *** rion shows as "online"
[17:12:50] *** karp has joined the room
[17:14:45] *** labdsf has left the room
[17:15:22] *** tux has left the room
[17:15:23] *** tux shows as "online"
[17:17:00] *** dwd has left the room
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[17:21:03] *** peter shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[17:22:19] *** 404.city shows as "online"
[17:23:04] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
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[17:26:13] *** labdsf has left the room
[17:26:54] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[17:27:18] *** 404.city shows as "online"
[17:28:01] *** rion shows as "online"
[17:30:19] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:31:51] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
[17:32:49] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[17:33:26] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[17:33:39] *** 404.city has left the room
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[17:36:26] *** Valerian has left the room
[17:38:44] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[17:39:12] *** karp has joined the room
[17:39:43] *** l has left the room
[17:41:48] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[17:41:59] *** Zash has left the room
[17:45:42] *** karp has left the room
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[17:48:17] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
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[17:48:53] *** lorddavidiii shows as "online"
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[17:52:31] *** lnj shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[17:56:40] *** alacer has left the room
[17:56:51] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[17:58:18] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[18:01:01] *** Valerian has joined the room
[18:01:56] *** karp has left the room
[18:02:32] *** lnj shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[18:02:41] *** alacer has joined the room
[18:02:51] *** lnj shows as "online"
[18:05:40] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:05:46] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:05:54] *** lskdjf has left the room
[18:05:54] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:07:22] *** thorsten has left the room
[18:07:44] *** thorsten has joined the room
[18:10:01] *** valo has left the room
[18:10:03] *** l shows as "online"
[18:10:03] *** valo has joined the room
[18:10:05] *** tux has left the room
[18:13:52] *** peter shows as "online"
[18:18:17] *** rion shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[18:22:35] *** alacer has left the room
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[18:25:18] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[18:26:09] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:26:15] *** lskdjf has left the room
[18:26:15] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:26:36] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[18:28:40] *** lnj shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[18:30:47] *** dwd has joined the room
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[18:34:35] *** Zash shows as "online"
[18:34:38] *** Zash shows as "online"
[18:35:17] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[18:35:57] *** alacer has joined the room
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[18:48:56] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
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[18:59:50] *** matlag shows as "online"
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[19:05:25] *** dwd has left the room
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[19:40:56] <lovetox> what do companys use for videochat if they dont have skype?
[19:42:14] <MattJ> Anything from Jitsi to Zoom, WebEx... I was in a GoToMeeting today
[19:42:32] <MattJ> and of course Google Hangouts/Meet
[19:43:00] <lovetox> my company has probably a some 6 figures in video conferencing hardware that is based on skype
[19:43:30] <MattJ> I'm sorry to hear that
[19:45:00] <lovetox> dont be, i mean it works decent, i never saw something else though
[19:45:19] <lovetox> im just wondering, if there are really hardware solutions out there that support all these messengers
[19:45:36] <lovetox> i mean such a video conferencing system is probably 10.000 euro+
[19:45:53] <lovetox> if i buy something like that it needs to work with most of my customers
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[19:46:22] <Zash> Have you ever been to FOSDEM and the Cisco-hosted XMPP Summit?
[19:46:36] <lovetox> nope
[19:47:00] <lovetox> we have cicso systems, still running skype though
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[19:49:03] <lovetox> also when i think about messing, you have email in the company, thats not going away, now you add something like slack because you know IM, then you still have skype thats for video chat and also has IM (bad but still), now you conversations spread over 3 systems
[19:49:25] <Zash> Yup
[19:49:37] <lovetox> then you have some kind of wiki, where everyone can leave comments, then you have JIRA for your workflows where everyone comments on the issues
[19:49:40] <Zash> "Unified Messaging" was some big hyped buzzword for a while there
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[19:50:00] <lovetox> its a fucking mess :D
[19:50:17] <Zash> It keeps going back to a mess, yeah.
[19:50:56] <Zash> Being good at all those different parts at the same time is much harder than building something good at only one thing.
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[19:53:28] <MattJ> All of the tools grow until they do everything badly
[19:54:07] <Zash> *All* the tools
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