XSF Discussion - 2018-10-18


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  361. Zash Would it be a good idea to include contact addresses (xep 157) in stream features?
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  366. jonas’ I wonder if we s houldn’t just put the entire disco#info result in stream features.
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  368. Guus Feels like over optimization to me, adding contact addresses there.
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  370. Zash How would you find contact addresses without an XMPP account then?
  371. Zash Or in my specific case where I've blocked a bunch of servers and I don't wanna unblock them and drown in spam to see if they have contact addresses.
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  397. flow Zash, by sending an IQ?
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  399. Zash flow: Not without an XMPP account
  400. flow then whatever IBR does
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  403. Zash Custom stream element that happens to look like an IQ stanza, but really isn't?
  404. flow hmm, I could be wrong, but it appears to send IQs without an xmpp acount
  405. Zash No it's not!
  406. Zash That stuff just looks like IQs for historical reasons. They aren't really.
  407. flow care to elaborate why they aren't really?
  408. Zash Because nothing before a resource is bound are stanzas.
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  411. Holger Zash: 6120 says: > The client could exchange stanzas with the server itself or the client's account before binding a resource since the full JID is needed only for addressing outside the context of the stream negotiated between the client and the server, but this is not commonly done.
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  413. flow Zash, first time I've heard that
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  415. Zash I don't think you should be able to send stanzas before "Completion of Stream Negotiation"
  416. Zash Prosody treats anything before resource binding as stream elements
  417. Zash Ie if there isn't something explicitly handling it, you get stream:error'd and disconnected
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  419. Zash Holger: That's not how it works in Prosody.
  420. dwd Zash, Presumably anything that isn't handled after resource binding is also stream:error'd...?
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  423. Zash resource binding enables special handling of the "jabber:client" namespace, so, yeah.
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  425. Zash Along with all the various source address sanity checking that just doesn't exist before that.
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  436. nyco ralphm Guus MattJ meeting at :30?
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  438. Guus I'm here
  439. Guus I'm here
  440. nyco that's two
  441. MattJ Hey
  442. nyco three, quorum!
  443. ralphm I'm here
  444. ralphm bangs gavel
  445. ralphm 0. Welcome and Agenda
  446. ralphm set the topic to XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  447. ralphm What's on for today?
  448. nyco executive?
  449. Guus lets have a look at the elections
  450. Guus candidacy is ... low.
  451. nyco oh
  452. nyco campaign? email lists, MUCs, Twitter...
  453. ralphm we're still at agenda
  454. ralphm what else?
  455. MattJ Nothing from me
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  457. Guus I don't have anything else either.
  458. nyco is there some FOSDEM to discuss?
  459. nyco and/or Summit?
  460. ralphm Added
  461. ralphm 1. Elections
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  463. nyco https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2018
  464. Guus Alex announced board and council elections a couple of weeks ago. So far, only one person (me) has announced candidacy. We need to spread the word and ask people to stand.
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  467. ralphm For Board, if any one else on Board right now wants to reapply, please add yourself to the wiki, like Guus
  468. ralphm If you know of someone you'd like to see on Board, please talk to them yourself.
  469. MattJ I probably shall, I guess... just been a bit busy the past few weeks
  470. nyco ralphm please apply!
  471. ralphm I'll also ask Council (via dwd) to consider if its current members want to run again.
  472. ralphm nyco: I'll reapply.
  473. dwd That came up last meeting.
  474. dwd (Raised by Ge0rG)
  475. dwd It might be worth raising this on members@, and also I'd encourage people to "tap" those they think would be good to encourage them to stand.
  476. Guus Shall we raise awareness via twitter too
  477. Guus ?
  478. Guus Alex did raise this in members@, btw
  479. ralphm Well, if we want to attract people from outside the Membership, I'm not opposed, but I'd rather contact people ourselves than an open invitation.
  480. nyco members are on the ML and the MUCs, not sure we'll get candidates on Twitter, but we'll surely be transparent here, and talk about XMPP, which is good (not bad)
  481. MattJ I don't personally have anyone in mind who isn't already a member
  482. ralphm nyco: there is a difference between transparency ("We are having elections") and an open invitation ("We are having elections, and please sign up to be on Board"), IMO.
  483. nyco right
  484. ralphm That was my only point, really.
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  487. ralphm I'll write another e-mail to Members
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  489. Seve Thinking on adding the "We are having elections" to our newsletter, would it be interesting?
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  491. Guus I don't think it'd hurt, Seve.
  492. ralphm Indeed.
  493. Guus Go for it. Thanks for thinking of it.
  494. nyco I'm adding that right away
  495. ralphm Anything else on this?
  496. Guus not from me
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  498. ralphm 2. FOSDEM
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  500. ralphm Devroom prep is ongoing. The RfP is coming soon.
  501. ralphm I'll put in the request for the Lounge, too.
  502. Guus I am planning (SCAM-hat on) to work on this (incl. summit, dinner) next week.
  503. ralphm And propose we reserve the Thursday/Friday for the Summit, in whichever form SCAM comes up with.
  504. Guus Also, while you're here Seve, I'd love for you to get involved with some on the ideas you offered last year.
  505. Guus </SCAM-hat>
  506. Guus ralphm: I assumed that was a given.
  507. Guus (the dates)
  508. ralphm Just making sure
  509. Guus kk
  510. ralphm 3. OAB?
  511. nyco not for me
  512. Guus We need to sit with Peter
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  514. Guus Ralph & me
  515. Guus other than that, no
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  518. MattJ None here
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  520. Guus oh, when does DST changes kick in?
  521. Guus it's the same for everyone in this board, I think?
  522. Guus In which case it doesn't matter much...
  523. ralphm Guus: ack
  524. Guus I'm assuming we'll keep doing meetings at the same local time, not UTC.
  525. ralphm DST in the EU ends on 28
  526. ralphm Guus: yes
  527. ralphm US has already switched
  528. Guus good for me to think of it _beforehand_ for once 🙂
  529. MattJ :)
  530. Guus ah, so I _was_ late anyways 😃
  531. ralphm yeah
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  534. Guus k, that's it for me.
  535. ralphm 4. Date of Next
  536. ralphm +1W (exactly)
  537. Guus works for me
  538. ralphm 5. Close
  539. ralphm Thanks all!
  540. Guus Thank you
  541. ralphm bangs gavel
  542. ralphm set the topic to XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  543. MattJ Thanks
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  546. Link Mauve “20:20:09 SamWhited> Back to the wiki: is OX XEP-0374? It doesn't appear to have been worked on in a while, is it worth including? Are there many implementations?”, Gajim at least.
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  548. Link Mauve “21:56:11 Zash> I fear this confusion will eventually lead someone to use a generic markdown library (with html passthrough enabled by default) and then the sky falls.”, someone just did for Converse, fyi.
  549. Zash Link Mauve: Which was why I wrote that
  550. Zash Tho I wasn't fully aware that they actually had used one by that time
  551. Zash Just that they were calling it markdown
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  554. Link Mauve They used a full-blown Markdown-including-HTML library there.
  555. Link Mauve So to get back to the XHTML-IM discussions, you can’t win against stupid.
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  564. Yagiza Link Mauve, someone said XHTML-IM?
  565. SamWhited So they were trying to implement 0393, or they were doing their own markdown thing?
  566. Link Mauve SamWhited, they thought that implementing Markdown would give them 0393.
  567. SamWhited *facepalm* okay, fair enough, maybe my assumption that anyone would notice that it didn't actually work was naive.
  568. SamWhited But I guess no one actually reads the spec *or* looks at examples.
  569. moparisthebest you know JS devs, never write 3 lines of code if you can import 43 npm packages to do it for you instead
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  571. Zash SamWhited: They strongly insinted that it was in fact another flavor like Github Flavored Markdown
  572. jonas’ I can’t say I’m surprised.
  573. SamWhited WhatsApp flavored Markdown!
  574. !xsf_martin has joined
  575. SamWhited HTML is W3C flavored markdown!
  576. Zash True fact
  577. SamWhited Or WHATWG flavored markdown, I guess
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  579. Kev Everything is proceeding as I have forseen.
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  581. Zash > If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine -- XHTML-IM probably
  582. Link Mauve Kev, same. :(
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  698. jonas’ a good reason for '157 in stream features is that you have a way to contact an operator you cannot reach otherwise due to s2s issues.
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  701. jonas’ ah no
  702. jonas’ or maybe
  703. Zash I was thinking account registration problems and such
  704. dwd has left
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  706. jonas’ that, too
  707. Zash Tho in the end there's the xmpp mailbox ( https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html#contact ) one can try, or one of {post,host,foo}master
  708. Yagiza has joined
  709. jonas’ hm, indeed
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  717. Link Mauve Zash, the vast majority of the operators I’ve encountered don’t have this mailbox.
  718. Link Mauve Operators generally don’t do what their server doesn’t require them to do.
  719. Zash make more noise about it
  720. Link Mauve Where?
  721. Zash Somewhere
  722. Link Mauve There is no way to automatedly check for that even, so no green checkmark race. :(
  723. Zash We've got this at least https://prosody.im/doc/public_servers#contact
  724. Zash Link Mauve: Email a thing and see if it gets delivered
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  726. Link Mauve Zash, sorry, I won’t spam every single XMPP operator there is.
  727. jonas’ and ironically, you’re only spamming those who’re doing it right :(
  728. Link Mauve Yup.
  729. Zash If they're unreachable, get them blacklisted somewhere
  730. Zash Public shaming!
  731. Link Mauve I’d expect that to cover 95+% (and I’m generous) of the XMPP services.
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  747. vanitasvitae Will there be a summit again in february?
  748. Zash yes
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