Friday, October 19, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[07:27:20] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
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[07:50:25] <pep.> > -- XHTML-IM probably
I laughed
[07:50:49] <pep.> Come on conversations, let me copy the whole message
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[07:51:36] *Maranda pats pep. consolingly.
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[09:15:50] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:15:55] *** genofire shows as "online"
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[09:17:36] *** rion shows as "online"
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[09:20:19] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[09:25:58] *** ralphm shows as "online"
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[09:39:16] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[09:41:33] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[09:42:01] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:42:13] *** Kev has left the room
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[09:42:42] *** ralphm shows as "online"
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[09:45:08] *** genofire shows as "online"
[09:46:01] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:46:36] *** Guus shows as "online"
[09:47:01] *** ralphm shows as "online"
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[09:54:28] *** Guus shows as "online"
[09:54:39] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:55:21] *** genofire shows as "online"
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[09:59:50] *** !xsf_martin shows as "online"
[09:59:50] *** !xsf_martin shows as "online"
[09:59:51] *** !xsf_martin shows as "online"
[09:59:51] *** !xsf_martin shows as "online"
[10:01:43] *** !xsf_martin shows as "online"
[10:03:25] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:03:55] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[10:03:58] *** tux has left the room
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[10:04:10] *** tux shows as "online"
[10:04:42] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[10:04:42] *** Guus has left the room
[10:06:53] *** andy shows as "away"
[10:07:06] *** tux shows as "xa" and his status message is "Gone 4 Food"
[10:07:37] *** Str4tocaster has joined the room
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[10:08:27] *** Str4tocaster shows as "online"
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[10:10:05] *** Str4tocaster shows as "online"
[10:10:13] *** Str4tocaster shows as "online"
[10:10:54] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[10:11:52] *** andy shows as "xa"
[10:12:19] *** andy shows as "online"
[10:16:08] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[10:16:10] *** Valerian has left the room
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[10:18:24] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:23:57] *** l has joined the room
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[10:27:39] *** rion shows as "online"
[10:30:48] *** l shows as "online"
[10:31:07] *** Zash shows as "online"
[10:33:38] *** Zash has left the room
[10:34:13] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:34:39] *** Valerian has joined the room
[10:34:41] *** daniel has left the room
[10:35:12] *** daniel has joined the room
[10:36:13] *** Zash shows as "online"
[10:38:37] *** Str4tocaster has joined the room
[10:38:46] *** Str4tocaster shows as "online"
[10:38:53] *** Str4tocaster has left the room
[10:39:45] *** Valerian has left the room
[10:39:46] *** dwd has joined the room
[10:42:11] *** dedekin has joined the room
[10:44:10] *** genofire shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:44:25] *** Valerian has joined the room
[10:50:21] *** Zash has left the room
[10:51:09] *** genofire shows as "online"
[10:54:36] *** Guus shows as "online"
[10:55:49] *** alacer has joined the room
[10:58:25] *** j.r has left the room
[10:59:12] *** krauq has left the room
[10:59:15] *** krauq has joined the room
[11:00:52] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[11:01:09] *** j.r has joined the room
[11:08:09] *** andy shows as "away"
[11:09:17] *** andy shows as "online"
[11:09:42] *** alexis has joined the room
[11:10:46] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:17:48] *** intosi has left the room
[11:17:50] *** intosi has joined the room
[11:18:38] *** matlag has left the room
[11:18:39] *** matlag shows as "online"
[11:20:07] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[11:20:33] *** Syndace has joined the room
[11:21:32] *** alexis has left the room
[11:24:39] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[11:24:49] *** Zash shows as "online"
[11:25:12] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:25:20] *** dwd has left the room
[11:25:20] *** dwd has joined the room
[11:27:58] *** dwd has left the room
[11:28:20] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:28:54] *** intosi has left the room
[11:28:56] *** intosi has joined the room
[11:30:10] *** blabla has left the room
[11:30:17] *** blabla has joined the room
[11:30:44] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:31:44] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:35:42] *** Guus shows as "online"
[11:36:16] *** Zash has left the room
[11:36:24] *** intosi has joined the room
[11:39:09] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[11:39:29] *** ThibG has left the room
[11:39:36] *** ThibG has joined the room
[11:40:40] *** Valerian has left the room
[11:40:59] *** Valerian has joined the room
[11:41:27] *** Valerian has left the room
[11:41:45] *** rion shows as "online"
[11:41:46] *** Valerian has joined the room
[11:42:00] *** lorddavidiii has joined the room
[11:42:14] *** Valerian has left the room
[11:45:22] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:46:12] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:46:30] *** alacer has left the room
[11:47:38] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[11:47:42] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[11:48:17] *** Zash shows as "online"
[11:48:23] *** Zash shows as "online"
[11:48:33] *** thorsten has joined the room
[11:49:20] *** andy shows as "away"
[11:49:29] *** andy shows as "online"
[11:49:31] *** Syndace has joined the room
[11:50:38] *** alacer has joined the room
[11:50:55] *** Valerian has joined the room
[11:51:15] *** Zash has left the room
[11:53:53] *** Guus shows as "online"
[11:54:41] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[11:54:42] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[11:54:47] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[11:54:52] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[12:00:23] *** efrit has left the room
[12:02:02] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[12:02:02] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[12:04:21] *** daniel has left the room
[12:05:01] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[12:05:06] *** daniel has joined the room
[12:05:22] *** Guus has left the room
[12:05:23] *** Guus shows as "online"
[12:05:46] *** alacer has left the room
[12:05:48] *** alacer has joined the room
[12:07:42] *** Guus has left the room
[12:08:03] *** tux shows as "online"
[12:08:24] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:09:11] *** andy shows as "away"
[12:09:13] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:09:52] *** intosi has joined the room
[12:09:59] *** andy shows as "online"
[12:13:14] *** Zash shows as "online"
[12:13:30] *** Zash has left the room
[12:17:49] *** lskdjf has left the room
[12:18:40] *** intosi has left the room
[12:18:41] *** intosi has joined the room
[12:19:14] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:21:03] *** andy shows as "away"
[12:21:05] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:21:08] *** Zash shows as "online"
[12:21:08] *** Zash shows as "online"
[12:21:46] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:22:08] *** daniel shows as "online"
[12:23:29] *** genofire shows as "online"
[12:23:45] *** andy shows as "online"
[12:24:26] *** Guus shows as "online"
[12:24:34] *** matlag has left the room
[12:24:35] *** matlag shows as "online"
[12:25:17] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:25:38] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:29:13] *** alacer has left the room
[12:30:10] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[12:30:20] *** l has left the room
[12:30:35] *** Yagiza has left the room
[12:30:46] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:31:10] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:31:18] *** dwd has joined the room
[12:34:47] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[12:34:57] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[12:36:39] *** Yagiza has left the room
[12:38:06] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:38:11] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:41:06] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:41:09] *** intosi has joined the room
[12:42:42] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[12:45:00] *** l has joined the room
[12:45:50] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:46:07] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[12:46:10] *** blabla has joined the room
[12:48:37] *** krauq has left the room
[12:48:41] *** krauq has joined the room
[12:49:58] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:50:05] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:50:08] *** rion shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[12:51:55] *** daniel has left the room
[12:51:58] *** daniel shows as "online"
[12:52:59] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:54:09] *** matlag has left the room
[12:54:10] *** matlag shows as "online"
[12:55:57] *** rion shows as "online"
[12:56:26] *** daniel has left the room
[12:56:29] *** daniel shows as "online"
[13:00:27] *** l has left the room
[13:00:30] *** l has joined the room
[13:02:59] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:03:00] *** genofire shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:03:44] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:05:36] *** dedekin has left the room
[13:07:00] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:09:01] *** intosi has left the room
[13:09:02] *** intosi has joined the room
[13:10:44] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[13:11:04] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[13:12:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:12:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:13:17] *** Holger has left the room
[13:13:28] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[13:13:55] *** lovetox has joined the room
[13:14:25] *** genofire shows as "online"
[13:14:28] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:14:48] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:14:49] *** intosi has joined the room
[13:14:53] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:15:16] *** mightyBroccoli has left the room
[13:15:17] *** Holger shows as "online"
[13:15:31] *** mightyBroccoli has joined the room
[13:17:20] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[13:19:05] *** dwd has left the room
[13:19:29] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:20:01] *** dwd has left the room
[13:20:12] *** dwd has joined the room
[13:21:00] *** andy shows as "away"
[13:22:16] *** rion shows as "online"
[13:23:04] *** matlag has left the room
[13:23:05] *** matlag shows as "online"
[13:23:25] *** dwd has left the room
[13:25:50] *** andy shows as "online"
[13:26:28] *** SamWhited has left the room
[13:26:30] *** SamWhited has joined the room
[13:26:45] *** jonas’ shows as "online"
[13:28:41] *** lovetox has left the room
[13:29:09] *** lovetox has joined the room
[13:29:15] *** genofire shows as "online"
[13:29:22] *** andy has left the room
[13:29:36] *** genofire has left the room
[13:30:42] *** rion shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[13:30:51] *** dedekin has joined the room
[13:36:04] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[13:36:16] *** daniel has left the room
[13:36:18] *** daniel shows as "online"
[13:36:23] *** lumi shows as "online"
[13:37:51] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[13:37:52] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[13:37:56] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[13:40:11] *** Valerian has left the room
[13:40:21] *** rion has left the room
[13:40:28] *** rion shows as "online"
[13:41:16] *** intosi has joined the room
[13:42:33] *** Valerian has joined the room
[13:43:02] *** dwd has joined the room
[13:43:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:43:54] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[13:45:39] *** rion has left the room
[13:45:45] *** rion shows as "online"
[13:49:01] *** lskdjf shows as "away"
[13:49:39] *** dwd has left the room
[13:49:58] *** rion shows as "online"
[13:50:32] *** matlag has left the room
[13:50:43] *** matlag shows as "online"
[13:50:46] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:52:03] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[13:53:44] *** genofire shows as "online"
[13:54:34] *** jonas’ shows as "online"
[13:55:27] *** Guus has left the room
[13:55:28] *** Guus shows as "online"
[13:55:42] *** Guus has left the room
[13:56:26] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[13:56:34] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[13:58:22] *** daniel has left the room
[13:58:51] *** daniel shows as "online"
[13:59:25] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:03:43] *** intosi has left the room
[14:03:44] *** intosi has joined the room
[14:03:48] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:04:43] *** genofire shows as "online"
[14:05:30] *** rion has left the room
[14:07:22] *** Guus shows as "online"
[14:09:41] *** labdsf has left the room
[14:11:39] *** labdsf has joined the room
[14:11:46] *** Maranda shows as "online" and his status message is " (Non disponibile per inattività dopo più di 15 minuti)"
[14:11:47] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Non disponibile per inattività dopo più di 15 minuti)"
[14:11:49] *** intosi has joined the room
[14:13:33] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:13:43] *** genofire shows as "online"
[14:15:56] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[14:18:17] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[14:18:26] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[14:19:04] *** Maranda shows as "away" and his status message is " (Assente per inattività dopo più di 5 minuti)"
[14:19:20] *** Yagiza has left the room
[14:19:38] *** Guus has left the room
[14:19:39] *** Guus shows as "online"
[14:19:42] *** Guus has left the room
[14:19:51] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[14:20:04] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[14:21:05] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[14:21:11] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:21:14] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[14:22:40] *** SamWhited has left the room
[14:22:40] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[14:23:21] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[14:23:48] *** intosi has left the room
[14:23:49] *** intosi has joined the room
[14:27:14] *** Yagiza has left the room
[14:27:24] *** Yagiza has left the room
[14:28:02] *** Valerian has left the room
[14:29:04] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Non disponibile per inattività dopo più di 15 minuti)"
[14:29:11] *** genofire shows as "online"
[14:33:24] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[14:33:26] *** Maranda has left the room
[14:34:13] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:34:54] *** SamWhited has left the room
[14:34:55] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[14:34:56] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[14:38:09] *** genofire shows as "online"
[14:39:31] *** Maranda shows as "away" and his status message is " (Assente per inattività dopo più di 5 minuti)"
[14:41:40] *** Guus shows as "online"
[14:43:24] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[14:45:03] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:49:31] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Non disponibile per inattività dopo più di 15 minuti)"
[14:49:59] *** genofire shows as "online"
[14:50:41] *** alacer has joined the room
[14:52:06] *** nyco shows as "online"
[14:53:49] *** intosi has joined the room
[14:54:10] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[14:55:16] *** lskdjf shows as "away"
[14:59:12] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[15:00:26] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[15:00:31] *** Guus has left the room
[15:00:32] *** Guus shows as "online"
[15:01:15] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:01:26] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[15:01:42] *** Guus has left the room
[15:02:13] *** Maranda shows as "away" and his status message is " (Assente per inattività dopo più di 5 minuti)"
[15:04:02] *** valo has joined the room
[15:05:19] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[15:05:47] *** nyco shows as "online"
[15:07:04] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[15:07:09] *** Guus shows as "online"
[15:07:34] *** guusdk shows as "online"
[15:07:41] *** guusdk has left the room
[15:08:51] *** intosi has joined the room
[15:09:06] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[15:09:12] *** thorsten has joined the room
[15:10:08] *** jonas’ has left the room
[15:10:48] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:11:42] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[15:11:52] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[15:12:40] *** Yagiza has left the room
[15:12:57] *** Maranda shows as "away" and his status message is " (Assente per inattività dopo più di 5 minuti)"
[15:13:03] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:17:49] *** intosi has joined the room
[15:20:03] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:22:13] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:22:57] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Non disponibile per inattività dopo più di 15 minuti)"
[15:23:03] *** genofire shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:23:21] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:25:21] *** lnj has joined the room
[15:25:54] *** lorddavidiii has joined the room
[15:26:37] *** genofire shows as "online"
[15:28:56] *** intosi has left the room
[15:28:58] *** intosi has joined the room
[15:29:25] *** mightyBroccoli has left the room
[15:29:31] *** mightyBroccoli has joined the room
[15:30:16] *** Guus has left the room
[15:30:17] *** Guus shows as "online"
[15:30:37] *** guusdk shows as "online"
[15:30:42] *** guusdk has left the room
[15:30:45] *** efrit has joined the room
[15:31:29] *** krauq has left the room
[15:31:34] *** krauq has joined the room
[15:31:37] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:34:05] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:35:08] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away, idle 5 min)"
[15:36:37] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[15:37:42] *** Guus has left the room
[15:38:50] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[15:38:51] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:41:37] *** genofire shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:43:43] *** nyco has left the room
[15:45:00] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:45:00] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[15:45:46] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[15:46:08] *** lumi shows as "online"
[15:47:44] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[15:47:45] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[15:48:20] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[15:48:30] *** lumi has left the room
[15:48:33] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[15:49:50] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[15:50:56] *** winfried has joined the room
[15:53:42] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[15:53:52] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[15:54:14] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:54:17] *** Yagiza has left the room
[15:54:27] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[15:54:50] *** Maranda has left the room
[15:55:22] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[15:55:24] *** ThibG has left the room
[15:55:30] *** ThibG has joined the room
[15:56:15] *** mimi89999 has joined the room
[15:56:38] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[15:57:18] *** Yagiza has left the room
[15:57:39] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[15:57:51] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[15:58:38] *** Yagiza has left the room
[15:58:39] *** mightyBroccoli has left the room
[15:58:41] *** mightyBroccoli has joined the room
[15:58:56] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[16:04:02] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[16:04:12] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[16:07:13] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:08:17] *** daniel has left the room
[16:08:28] *** marc has joined the room
[16:08:35] *** daniel shows as "online"
[16:08:51] *** Zash has left the room
[16:09:39] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:11:50] *** intosi has joined the room
[16:12:05] *** blabla has joined the room
[16:15:58] *** waqas has joined the room
[16:19:53] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:20:14] *** lorddavidiii has left the room
[16:20:49] *** lorddavidiii has joined the room
[16:23:57] *** Maranda shows as "away" and his status message is " (Assente per inattività dopo più di 5 minuti)"
[16:24:05] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[16:25:54] *** efrit has left the room
[16:26:50] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:26:50] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[16:28:24] *** matlag has left the room
[16:28:25] *** matlag shows as "online"
[16:30:07] *** bear shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:30:07] *** bear shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:30:15] *** bear has left the room
[16:30:20] *** bear shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:30:21] *** bear shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:31:13] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:31:32] *** guusdk shows as "online"
[16:31:42] *** guusdk has left the room
[16:31:55] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[16:32:49] *** intosi has joined the room
[16:32:55] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:33:15] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:33:15] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[16:34:35] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[16:34:46] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[16:34:55] *** l shows as "online"
[16:36:48] *** mightyBroccoli has left the room
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[18:46:33] <Yagiza> Hello!
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[18:47:11] <Yagiza> How do you feel about writing a XEP for file transfer via UDP?
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[19:12:27] <SamWhited> Why UDP?
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[19:30:50] <Zash> Isn't there a Jingle UDP transport already?
[19:31:02] <Zash> Might be meant for real time media I guess
[19:31:09] <Zash> TFTP over XMPP?
[19:31:20] <Link Mauve> I’ve already used it for a video game.
[19:31:52] <Link Mauve> But it can lose or reorder packets, you’d need an additional protocol on top of it to make it behave like TCP.
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[19:32:45] <Link Mauve> At which point, why don’t you use TCP instead?
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[19:48:20] <flow> Yagiza, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0176.html ?
[19:48:43] <Yagiza> flow, yes
[19:49:07] <Yagiza> flow, right now it can't be used for file transfer. But we can write a XEP for it.
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[19:52:22] <flow> Yagiza, why can't it be used for file transfer?
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[19:52:53] <Yagiza> flow, because we need a way to provide reliability when using UDP.
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[19:53:25] <Zash> SCTP over DTLS over UDP?
[19:53:34] <Zash> Like ... WebRTC?
[19:53:47] <SamWhited> Yagiza: what use case do you ahve for using UDP with some application level reliability stuff that you couldn't just use TCP for?
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[19:54:41] <fippo> zash: old fashioned, quic is the next big thing ther
[19:55:35] <fippo> xep-0343 provides a mapping of the sdp stuff to jingle
[19:55:39] <Yagiza> SamWhited, when entities are behind NAT (common case) the need a relay to use TCP. Using a relay make them depend on the realy. UDP could be used directly without a relay.
[19:55:41] <Zash> Why isn't there a XEP for bittorrent?
[19:56:04] <Zash> Yagiza: DUP hole punching stuff?
[19:56:18] <fippo> yagiza: that is true only ~70% of the time.
[19:56:20] <Zash> Didn't that need an outside 3rd party anyway?
[19:57:35] <Link Mauve> Zash, you know I’ve wanted to write one? :D
[19:57:49] <Yagiza> Zash, there is no problem in finding a public STUN server over internet. There are hundreds of them. But it's a real problem to find TURN or even SOCKS5 server.
[19:58:06] <fippo> because those things are expensive.
[19:58:47] <Zash> Don't a lot of XMPP servers provide a XEP-0065 SOCKS5 proxy for this?
[19:58:57] <Yagiza> Zash, there are not so many people, who want to run a server, which channels are used by unknown people.
[19:59:34] <Zash> Yagiza: [citation needed]
[19:59:38] <Yagiza> Zash, yes. Nowadays it's hard to find a public working XEP-0065 server.
[19:59:48] <Zash> Only because everyone's using HTTP upload instead
[19:59:59] <fippo> because xep-65 proxies are expensive to run too?
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[20:00:31] <Zash> Link Mauve: Do it. I think I've even got a mod_bittorrent tracker somewhere.
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[20:00:58] <Link Mauve> Zash, but as a XEP or as a BEP, or both?
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[20:01:08] <Zash> :D
[20:02:15] <Yagiza> fippo, yes. Unlike a STUN server.
[20:02:27] <Maranda> Yagiza: "public"?
[20:02:45] <Yagiza> Maranda, yes.
[20:03:36] *Maranda has proxy65 runnin' on his service 🤔
[20:03:55] <Yagiza> Maranda, most of working XEP-065 servers caould be used only with accounts, registered on the server where it hosted.
[20:04:10] <Maranda> Ah of course
[20:04:20] <Yagiza> Maranda, so, they re private.
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[20:04:54] <Zash> But then they don't get the green checkmark on https://compliance.conversations.im/
[20:05:24] <fippo> yagiza: stun servers cost < 1000 bytes per call.
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[20:06:01] <Yagiza> fippo, yeah.
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[20:06:39] <Yagiza> fippo, that's why they could be preferred over relays.
[20:06:41] <Maranda> Yagiza: well it would be not very *cool* to have an open socks5 proxy either tbh
[20:07:21] <Yagiza> Maranda, yes. And that's why it's a good idea to transfer files over UDP.
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[20:07:41] <fippo> yagiza: that is what ice (rfc 5245 / xep-0176) does. try everything, prefer the cheapest
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[20:09:39] <Yagiza> fippo, I didn't find a way of using UDP thru NAT without a relay described in RFC 5245.
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[20:10:38] <fippo> yagiza: that is what stun does in that context. you gather public ips, then do holepunching. works 70% of the time
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[20:11:14] <Zash> 70% of the time it works every time
[20:11:59] <fippo> unless you are in chrome where it depends on the direction of the connection -- but google folks won't bother investigating :-)
[20:12:43] <Yagiza> fippo, hey! Don't mix srflx and relay addresses. You won't be able to establish a TCP connection with srflx candidates and UDP do not provide reliability!
[20:13:03] <fippo> yagiza: ice-tcp doesn't work for p2p, that is well-known.
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[20:13:33] <Yagiza> fippo, yes! So we go back to my first sentence.
[20:13:44] <fippo> yagiza: FYI: i am running a hundreds of turn servers all around the world.
[20:13:53] <Yagiza> fippo, we need a XEP for using UDP for file transfer.
[20:14:22] <Zash> Oh, can you anycast such?
[20:14:40] <fippo> yagiza: run it over ice if you want it to work. jingle also has a raw udp mode but i doubt anyone bothers anymore
[20:14:40] <Yagiza> fippo, are they free to use?
[20:14:55] <fippo> yagiza: no.
[20:15:31] <Yagiza> fippo, and that's enough to think they are not exist.
[20:16:08] <fippo> yagiza: would you please explain that to the people sending me bills for datatransfer over their network?
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[20:16:39] <Yagiza> fippo, why do I need that?
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[20:16:56] <fippo> i would prefer not to pay those bills :-)
[20:17:35] <Yagiza> fippo, yes. That's why I tell that we need a way to perform file transfer over UDP.
[20:17:46] <Zash> There is no such thing as a free byte
[20:18:56] <fippo> yagiza: https://www.twilio.com/stun-turn/pricing -- just to give you an impression of cost. they make a good margin on that...
[20:19:26] <Yagiza> Zash, yes. That's why we need to save traffic thru servers. 'cause their owners do not want pay for other people's traffic.
[20:19:39] <Zash> Yagiza: *networks*
[20:20:03] <Zash> Bandwidth usage costs too
[20:20:04] <fippo> yes. that is why using TURN is only a fallback in ice.
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[20:21:17] <Yagiza> fippo, yes. But it's impossible to use TCP in ICE without TURN when entities are behind their NAT's.
[20:21:46] <Yagiza> fippo, so once again: we need a way to perform file transfer with UDP.
[20:22:15] <Zash> Yagiza: Write the XEP then? :)
[20:22:15] <fippo> yagiza: use xep-0343 which runs over ice.
[20:23:01] <Yagiza> Zash, yes. That's what I suggest.
[20:23:58] <fippo> https://github.com/legastero/jingle-interop-demos/ -- the stanza.io demo allowed that five years ago.
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[20:24:52] <Yagiza> fippo, thanx. I'll investigate it.
[20:24:53] <fippo> i wouldn't be surpised if that particular version was broken due to changes in webrtc.
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[20:28:32] <Yagiza> fippo, but I guess relying on things like WebRTC is not a good idea at all. We can just create a simple transport protocol just to provide reliability when sending data stream over UDP.
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[20:30:16] <fippo> yagiza: people didn't come up with RFC 5245 (or its successor) for fun.
[20:30:29] <Link Mauve> edhelas, have you tested Movim against these five clients, btw?
[20:31:14] <Link Mauve> Yagiza, another benefit of WebRTC is that you suddenly are compatible with web clients too.
[20:31:22] <Link Mauve> Of which there are actually quite a few already.
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[20:32:19] <Yagiza> fippo, what do you mean?
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[20:32:58] <fippo> yagiza: NATs are a bit more complicated to traverse than you expect
[20:33:54] <Yagiza> fippo, NATs are easily traversed by ICE. Do I suggest not to use ICE for NAT traversing or something?
[20:34:13] <fippo> yes.
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[20:34:39] <Yagiza> fippo, please, sho me the place where I told such things.
[20:34:49] <fippo> if you don'T like browsers, there are libs like https://github.com/rawrtc/rawrtc or https://github.com/jlaine/aiortc/
[20:35:20] <fippo> yagiza: ah... i missed a "not". but you keep saying "udp" and ice is not just udp
[20:35:43] <Yagiza> fippo, I strongly suggest using ICE for NAT traversing. And that's why I suggest to make a XEP for file transfer over UDP.
[20:36:22] <fippo> yagiza: 0343 + 0234
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[20:37:49] <fippo> (0234 can use 0176, 0343 provides datachannels for reliability)
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[20:40:22] <Yagiza> fippo, ok. If you think WebRTC is the best way to provide reliability over UDP, let's agree on this.
[20:42:29] <fippo> technically what provides reliability is sctp over dtls over sctp but saying its webrtc leaves a hole for quic to sneak in :-)
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[20:43:53] <Yagiza> I just don't like so many unfamiliar abbreviations. It suggests me that each of them add some overhead.
[20:44:53] <fippo> it was easier in the old days of ircs DCC
[20:46:19] <Yagiza> fippo, yeah. I used DCC, but never thought about how it works.
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[21:31:29] <Ge0rG> DCC was notoriously broken with NAT. And then you had mod_conntrack_irc and then you connected to a non standard port and it was all bad again.
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[21:59:02] *** thorsten has joined the room
[22:04:31] *** dedekin has left the room
[22:05:23] *** intosi has joined the room
[22:09:37] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:15:39] *** daniel has left the room
[22:15:42] *** daniel shows as "online"
[22:18:22] *** Zash shows as "online"
[22:18:59] *** lnj shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[22:19:36] *** genofire shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:20:53] *** marc has left the room
[22:22:56] *** lskdjf shows as "away"
[22:23:13] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[22:23:40] *** genofire shows as "online"
[22:23:43] *** intosi has joined the room
[22:24:09] *** lnj shows as "online"
[22:24:14] *** j.r has joined the room
[22:24:24] *** Zash shows as "online"
[22:24:28] *** Zash shows as "online"
[22:31:24] *** lumi has left the room
[22:33:40] *** lnj has left the room
[22:40:29] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:45:16] *** intosi has left the room
[22:45:17] *** intosi has joined the room
[22:46:54] *** Guus has left the room
[22:46:55] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:52:42] *** Guus has left the room
[22:56:14] *** intosi has left the room
[22:56:15] *** intosi has joined the room
[22:57:19] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:58:13] *** lskdjf has left the room
[22:58:14] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[22:59:24] *** matlag has left the room
[22:59:25] *** matlag shows as "online"
[23:04:16] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Non disponibile per inattività dopo più di 15 minuti)"
[23:04:16] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[23:04:17] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[23:04:19] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[23:05:19] *** Maranda has left the room
[23:07:20] *** lskdjf has left the room
[23:07:21] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[23:09:47] *** intosi has left the room
[23:09:48] *** intosi has joined the room
[23:15:48] *** lskdjf has left the room
[23:15:48] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[23:16:40] *** lskdjf has left the room
[23:16:40] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[23:20:59] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:20:59] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[23:24:16] *** rion has left the room
[23:26:16] *** genofire has left the room
[23:39:39] *** daniel has left the room
[23:39:42] *** daniel shows as "online"
[23:40:08] *** efrit has left the room
[23:41:20] *** UsL has left the room
[23:41:21] *** UsL has joined the room
[23:43:48] *** daniel has left the room
[23:49:23] *** SamWhited has left the room
[23:58:08] *** lskdjf has left the room
[23:58:09] *** lskdjf shows as "online"