Wednesday, October 31, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[08:27:11] <Kev> Anyone want to find the bit of 6121 that says you receive your other resources' presence when you come online for me? AFAICS after a few minutes hunting it doesn't actually say that other than mentioning an implicit subscription
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[08:29:48] <MattJ> I haven't looked, but isn't that enough?
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[08:31:27] <fippo> kev: 4.2.2?
[08:31:43] <Kev> fippo: Says about sending to your resources when you come online, not about receiving from them, I think.
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[08:32:03] <Kev> MattJ: Only if you apply a lot of thinking, I think. The phrasing is
"""
The user's server MUST also broadcast initial presence from the
user's newly available resource to all of the user's available
resources, including the resource that generated the presence
notification in the first place (i.e., an entity is implicitly
subscribed to its own presence).
"""
[08:32:35] <Kev> Unless you already knew that you had to do it, I don't think a reasonable person would read that and realise, would they?
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[08:36:03] <MattJ> Depends - are you calling all current server devs unreasonable people? :)
[08:36:29] <MattJ> I've never heard this cast into doubt before
[08:36:29] <fippo> mattj: we just did what jabberd did
[08:37:06] <Kev> MattJ: No, I think all the current server devs already knew what needed to be done so it didn't matter than 6121 didn't say it.
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[08:38:36] <Kev> Or didn't say it in a way people would pick up.
[08:39:09] <Kev> I do agree that the 'implicit sub' bit does mean to do this (well, actually to send probes to yourself, with an optional optimisation), I was just surprised that we didn't say it explicitly.
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[08:55:46] <fippo> having an explicit "send presence from all available resources" there would be better indeed. now what is the best way to fix that...
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[09:09:00] <fippo> 4.3.1 is the other wiggly part of this.
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[09:29:18] <Kev> That lets you wriggle out of the probes for the implicit sub, yeah.
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[10:54:29] *** Kev shows as "online"
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[10:57:03] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[10:57:03] *** Kev shows as "away"
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[11:08:06] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:08:07] *** andy shows as "away"
[11:10:10] *** blabla has left the room
[11:11:57] <flow> "now what is the best way to fix that..." report as errata, so that it won't be forgotten in a possibly follow-up rfc?
[11:12:27] *** andy shows as "online"
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[11:18:06] *** genofire shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[11:23:10] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[11:23:42] *** andy shows as "away"
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[11:31:02] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
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[11:41:08] *** lumi shows as "online"
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[11:49:54] *** genofire shows as "online"
[11:50:22] *** andy shows as "xa"
[11:50:37] *** blabla shows as "online"
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[12:00:16] *** Str4tocaster shows as "online"
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[12:01:16] *** Str4tocaster shows as "online"
[12:01:32] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[12:02:43] *** Str4tocaster has left the room
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[12:03:02] *** Str4tocaster shows as "online"
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[12:04:24] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:06:53] *** Kev shows as "online"
[12:06:55] *** Kev shows as "online"
[12:07:00] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
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[12:09:04] *** Str4tocaster has left the room
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[12:09:24] *** Str4tocaster shows as "online"
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[12:13:28] *** Zash shows as "online"
[12:14:24] *** genofire shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:15:32] *** lumi shows as "online"
[12:16:34] *** dwd shows as "away"
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[12:19:20] *** Kev shows as "online"
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[12:21:10] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[12:21:18] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[12:23:33] *** Str4tocaster has left the room
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[12:24:29] *** matlag shows as "online"
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[12:31:04] *** Zash shows as "online"
[12:31:05] *** Zash shows as "online"
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[12:36:20] *** matlag shows as "online"
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[12:37:09] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[12:37:10] *** matlag has left the room
[12:37:11] *** matlag shows as "online"
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[12:42:34] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:43:40] *** nyco shows as "online"
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[12:44:50] *** matlag shows as "online"
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[12:50:13] *** pep. shows as "online"
[12:52:34] *** genofire shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:52:48] *** ta shows as "online"
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[12:56:00] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
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[13:05:18] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:05:22] *** intosi shows as "online"
[13:05:59] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[13:07:06] *** Str4tocaster has left the room
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[13:15:55] *** andy shows as "xa"
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[13:28:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[13:32:35] *** Kev shows as "online"
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[13:50:59] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
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[14:10:54] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[14:12:46] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
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[14:14:38] *** matlag shows as "online"
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[14:20:03] *** andy shows as "away"
[14:21:57] *** lnj shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[14:21:57] *** lnj shows as "online"
[14:24:04] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[14:24:22] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[14:24:22] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[14:25:02] *** andy shows as "xa"
[14:25:12] *** genofire shows as "online"
[14:25:59] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[14:26:04] *** Alex shows as "online"
[14:26:43] *** blabla shows as "online"
[14:26:54] *** blabla shows as "online"
[14:26:58] *** lnj shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[14:28:23] *** matlag has left the room
[14:28:40] *** matlag shows as "online"
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[14:29:24] *** lnj shows as "online"
[14:31:35] *** peter shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[14:33:46] *** intosi shows as "online"
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[15:10:28] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
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[15:18:11] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[15:18:17] *** winfried shows as "online"
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[15:19:50] *** Holger shows as "online"
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[15:21:49] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Я отошёл от рабочего места"
[15:22:00] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[15:22:17] *** jjrh has left the room
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[15:25:51] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
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[15:40:58] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
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[19:58:07] <peter> Feel free to file an erratum on RFC 6121. It seems clear to me, but I'm probably too close to it even after all these years. :-) Also, you don't have to send probes to your own account, I'd say.
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[19:58:29] <peter> (Thanks to Fippo for the ping on IRC!)
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[20:02:42] <fippo> i think "IRC" is a bad word on this channel :-p
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[20:03:44] <peter> Hey we invented Jabber over IRC. ;-)
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[20:47:56] <Ge0rG> peter: and it shows in things like MUC. So you can be pinged on IRC to get you summoned to XMPP?
[20:49:31] <peter> I'm on irc.mozilla.org all day long.
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[20:51:36] <fippo> only during he days :-p
[20:51:54] <Ge0rG> Oh, I don't think I ever connected there. If only there was federation between IRC networks...
[20:52:23] *** sonny shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:53:01] <peter> But I've been logging in here more too - however I use two computers and don't always look at this one. :-)
[20:53:07] <Zash> put up a single-network-biboumi
[20:55:58] <Ge0rG> Or a multi network biboumi, for that matter. I'm doing 95% of my IRC needs from yaxim / poezio / XMPP
[20:57:05] <Zash> I'm doing all my IRC through biboumi now
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[20:59:28] <Ge0rG> There's a network requiring special modes and another one with client SSL that certificates
[21:00:32] <Zash> Did you just use "certificates" as a verb?
[21:02:50] <Ge0rG> There's a network requiring special modes and another one with client SSL certificates
[21:03:04] <Ge0rG> Ah, LMC to the rescue, now also in yaxim!
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[21:08:54] <SamWhited> But why did you send that message multiple times, I don't even see the small difference that my eyes glance right over because I've already read your message once and assume it's just a transport problem and it got sent twice like SMS does sometimes?
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[21:10:13] <Zash> Because that's how Last Message Correction works?
[21:10:27] <Zash> Or doesn't work
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[21:13:13] *** sonny shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:13:20] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[21:14:26] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: looks like your client fails at LMC
[21:15:02] *** dwd has left the room
[21:16:12] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:16:46] *** Alotest has joined the room
[21:17:33] <Zash> Or doesn't work ... (test)
[21:18:52] <Ge0rG> LMC in MUCs has some privacy implications
[21:19:55] <Zash> Ge0rG: The replacement message doesn't stay in the same position, bug, intentional, limitation?
[21:21:47] *** matlag has left the room
[21:21:47] *** matlag shows as "online"
[21:22:50] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:23:03] *** sonny shows as "online"
[21:23:17] *** Zash shows as "online"
[21:23:19] *** Zash shows as "online"
[21:23:28] *** genofire shows as "online"
[21:23:50] *** dedekin has left the room
[21:24:18] *** labdsf has joined the room
[21:24:18] *** guusdk has left the room
[21:24:18] *** Guus has left the room
[21:24:22] *** peter shows as "online"
[21:24:51] <Ge0rG> Zash: looks like the timestamp is updated to the correcting timestamp, reordering the messages. I'd say it's a minor bug
[21:28:19] *** sonny shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:29:21] <Zash> Ge0rG: More minor than not indicating that any correcting happened.
[21:30:50] <Ge0rG> Zash: I'm not sure what you mean.
[21:31:16] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:31:16] <Zash> Ge0rG: I don't see that the UI indicates that a message has been replaced.
[21:31:20] *** Guus has joined the room
[21:31:20] *** guusdk has joined the room
[21:32:54] *** genofire shows as "online"
[21:34:52] *** dedekin has joined the room
[21:35:22] *** dedekin has left the room
[21:35:45] *** Alex has joined the room
[21:37:23] *** sonny shows as "online"
[21:37:42] <Ge0rG> Zash: there is a wiring hand Emoji by the timestamp
[21:38:16] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:38:48] <Zash> Ge0rG: Did you add that after Sunday or is the device missing emoji fonts?
[21:39:06] <Ge0rG> Zash: ✍. If your phone can't render it, it's not my fault!
[21:39:45] <Ge0rG> Zash: I've done significant work for the 0.9.3 release this week. Upgrade now!
[21:40:59] *** Alotest has left the room
[21:41:30] *** genofire shows as "online"
[21:42:27] *** sonny shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:43:02] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[21:43:51] *** Alotest has joined the room
[21:44:06] <Zash> Test
[21:44:10] <Zash> Testing
[21:44:35] <Zash> Ge0rG: Ok, works now
[21:44:37] *** waqas has left the room
[21:44:42] *** waqas has joined the room
[21:45:41] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:45:54] *** waqas has left the room
[21:46:07] *** lnj has left the room
[21:46:47] *** dedekin has joined the room
[21:47:07] *** dedekin has left the room
[21:49:58] *** peter shows as "online"
[21:51:25] <Ge0rG> In the chat database, I'm aggregating LMC into the original message, so it's slightly quirky if something goes wrong, or if the correction lands before the original
[21:51:29] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[21:52:27] *** sonny shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:53:01] *** !xsf_martin has left the room
[21:55:49] *** genofire has left the room
[21:56:53] *** genofire shows as "online"
[21:56:56] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[21:57:55] *** Valerian has left the room
[21:58:25] *** rion has left the room
[21:58:28] *** rion shows as "online"
[22:02:20] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:07:27] *** genofire has left the room
[22:07:34] *** dedekin has joined the room
[22:07:47] *** dedekin has left the room
[22:10:46] *** intosi has left the room
[22:11:40] *** Kev shows as "online"
[22:13:01] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[22:13:54] *** Kev has left the room
[22:14:08] *** Kev shows as "online"
[22:14:13] *** Kev shows as "online"
[22:14:56] *** Alex has left the room
[22:16:05] *** ThibG has joined the room
[22:17:36] *** Alotest has left the room
[22:19:58] *** SamWhited has left the room
[22:20:14] *** ThibG has left the room
[22:20:19] *** ThibG has joined the room
[22:24:43] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[22:27:24] *** matlag has left the room
[22:27:25] *** matlag shows as "online"
[22:29:44] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[22:30:42] <Syndace> The wiki page for membership applications states "responsibilities of XSF members are listed here" but there is no list/link to a list.
[22:31:45] *** dedekin has joined the room
[22:33:00] *** peter shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[22:33:08] <Ge0rG> Syndace: https://xmpp.org/community/membership.html
[22:34:08] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:35:10] <Syndace> thanks
[22:36:03] *** matlag has left the room
[22:36:04] *** matlag shows as "online"
[22:36:51] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[22:41:52] *** lovetox shows as "online" and his status message is "asdasd ad adasdada da sdad ad ada dadad ad ad"
[22:42:52] *** guusdk has left the room
[22:43:01] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[22:43:09] *** Guus has left the room
[22:43:09] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[22:43:10] *** Guus has joined the room
[22:43:26] *** guusdk has joined the room
[22:46:00] *** Andrew Nenakhov has left the room
[22:46:06] *** Andrew Nenakhov has joined the room
[22:48:23] *** dedekin has left the room
[22:51:08] *** Andrew Nenakhov shows as "online"
[22:53:26] *** Guus has left the room
[22:54:11] *** vaulor has joined the room
[22:55:16] *** genofire shows as "online"
[22:59:29] *** genofire has left the room
[22:59:30] *** genofire shows as "online"
[22:59:48] *** genofire shows as "online"
[23:00:16] *** genofire has left the room
[23:00:46] *** edhelas has left the room
[23:01:12] *** edhelas has joined the room
[23:01:34] *** genofire shows as "online"
[23:01:38] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is "asdasd ad adasdada da sdad ad ada dadad ad ad (Away, idle 1 min)"
[23:01:41] *** lovetox shows as "online" and his status message is "asdasd ad adasdada da sdad ad ada dadad ad ad"
[23:01:59] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[23:02:47] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is "asdasd ad adasdada da sdad ad ada dadad ad ad (Away, idle 1 min)"
[23:02:53] *** lovetox shows as "online" and his status message is "asdasd ad adasdada da sdad ad ada dadad ad ad"
[23:05:34] *** genofire has left the room
[23:05:35] *** genofire shows as "online"
[23:09:04] *** genofire has left the room
[23:09:06] *** genofire shows as "online"
[23:11:01] *** labdsf has left the room
[23:11:03] *** genofire shows as "online"
[23:13:10] *** labdsf has joined the room
[23:18:00] *** matlag has left the room
[23:18:01] *** matlag shows as "online"
[23:19:46] *** Guus has joined the room
[23:20:23] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[23:24:18] *** genofire has left the room
[23:24:26] *** genofire shows as "online"
[23:25:13] *** peter shows as "online"
[23:26:08] *** j.r has joined the room
[23:26:19] *** genofire has left the room
[23:26:22] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[23:26:26] *** genofire shows as "online"
[23:27:13] *** genofire has left the room
[23:27:19] *** genofire has left the room
[23:27:29] *** genofire has joined the room
[23:30:02] *** krauq has left the room
[23:30:34] *** genofire shows as "online"
[23:31:00] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:32:13] *** Guus has left the room
[23:32:13] *** Guus has joined the room
[23:32:26] *** Guus has left the room
[23:33:46] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:34:58] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:35:11] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:35:24] *** genofire shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:35:27] *** krauq has joined the room
[23:36:48] *** genofire shows as "online"
[23:41:16] *** j.r has joined the room
[23:43:37] *** Guus has joined the room
[23:47:33] *** thorsten has left the room
[23:47:35] *** thorsten has joined the room
[23:49:00] *** genofire has left the room
[23:49:09] *** genofire shows as "online"
[23:50:07] *** Guus has left the room
[23:50:11] *** Guus has joined the room
[23:52:25] *** peter has left the room
[23:52:33] *** genofire has left the room
[23:52:35] *** genofire shows as "online"
[23:52:47] *** genofire shows as "online"
[23:54:29] *** daniel has left the room
[23:56:10] *** j.r has joined the room
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[23:56:41] *** lovetox has left the room
[23:59:01] *** genofire has left the room