XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2018-11-01


  1. Guus has joined
  2. efrit has joined
  3. thorsten has left
  4. thorsten has joined
  5. Guus has left
  6. Guus has joined
  7. efrit has left
  8. UsL has joined
  9. peter has joined
  10. genofire has left
  11. peter has left
  12. alexis has joined
  13. jjrh has left
  14. jjrh has left
  15. jjrh has left
  16. alexis has left
  17. alexis has joined
  18. Zash has left
  19. j.r has joined
  20. alexis has left
  21. j.r has joined
  22. krauq has left
  23. krauq has joined
  24. sonny has joined
  25. sonny has joined
  26. jjrh has left
  27. alexis has joined
  28. alexis has left
  29. alexis has joined
  30. alexis has left
  31. alexis has joined
  32. j.r has joined
  33. j.r has joined
  34. jjrh has left
  35. alexis has left
  36. alexis has joined
  37. ta has joined
  38. dwd has joined
  39. dwd has left
  40. alexis has left
  41. alexis has joined
  42. alexis has left
  43. alexis has joined
  44. Yagiza has joined
  45. alexis has left
  46. daniel has left
  47. daniel has joined
  48. alexis has joined
  49. marc has left
  50. SamWhited has left
  51. moparisthebest has left
  52. Zash has left
  53. alexis has left
  54. alexis has joined
  55. alexis has left
  56. waqas has joined
  57. Yagiza has left
  58. Yagiza has joined
  59. moparisthebest has left
  60. alacer has joined
  61. alacer has left
  62. alacer has joined
  63. ta has left
  64. moparisthebest has left
  65. Str4tocaster has joined
  66. Str4tocaster has left
  67. Str4tocaster has joined
  68. lorddavidiii has joined
  69. Str4tocaster has left
  70. Str4tocaster has joined
  71. Str4tocaster has left
  72. Str4tocaster has joined
  73. j.r has joined
  74. j.r has joined
  75. Str4tocaster has left
  76. Str4tocaster has joined
  77. valo has joined
  78. APach has left
  79. dwd has joined
  80. APach has joined
  81. dwd has left
  82. lovetox has joined
  83. lnj has joined
  84. l has joined
  85. daniel has left
  86. daniel has joined
  87. APach has left
  88. APach has joined
  89. lnj has left
  90. lnj has joined
  91. alacer has left
  92. alacer has joined
  93. vaulor has joined
  94. lskdjf has joined
  95. goffi has joined
  96. waqas has left
  97. labdsf has left
  98. ThibG has left
  99. ThibG has joined
  100. vaulor has joined
  101. Str4tocaster has left
  102. Str4tocaster has joined
  103. guusdk has left
  104. guusdk has joined
  105. Guus has left
  106. Guus has joined
  107. thorsten has left
  108. daniel has left
  109. Str4tocaster has left
  110. Str4tocaster has joined
  111. l has joined
  112. valo has left
  113. Str4tocaster has left
  114. Str4tocaster has joined
  115. Str4tocaster has left
  116. Str4tocaster has joined
  117. Guus has left
  118. daniel has joined
  119. Guus has joined
  120. guusdk has left
  121. guusdk has joined
  122. guusdk has left
  123. guusdk has joined
  124. Str4tocaster has left
  125. Str4tocaster has joined
  126. labdsf has joined
  127. intosi has joined
  128. Str4tocaster has left
  129. !xsf_martin has joined
  130. lorddavidiii has left
  131. ThibG has left
  132. ThibG has joined
  133. intosi has left
  134. intosi has joined
  135. genofire has left
  136. vaulor has left
  137. Valerian has joined
  138. lorddavidiii has joined
  139. Str4tocaster has joined
  140. vaulor has joined
  141. labdsf has left
  142. intosi has left
  143. lskdjf has joined
  144. lskdjf has joined
  145. alexis has joined
  146. valo has joined
  147. labdsf has joined
  148. Str4tocaster has left
  149. Str4tocaster has joined
  150. alexis has left
  151. Valerian has left
  152. Str4tocaster has left
  153. Str4tocaster has joined
  154. Steve Kille has left
  155. Steve Kille has left
  156. guusdk has left
  157. guusdk has joined
  158. Guus has left
  159. Guus has joined
  160. Guus has left
  161. lorddavidiii has left
  162. alexis has joined
  163. mimi89999 has joined
  164. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  165. alexis has left
  166. lskdjf has joined
  167. Nekit has joined
  168. Steve Kille has joined
  169. ta has joined
  170. labdsf has left
  171. lskdjf has joined
  172. genofire has left
  173. jjrh has left
  174. labdsf has joined
  175. alexis has joined
  176. alexis has left
  177. thorsten has joined
  178. dedekin has joined
  179. APach has left
  180. alexis has joined
  181. alexis has left
  182. APach has joined
  183. dwd has joined
  184. blabla has left
  185. alexis has joined
  186. ta has left
  187. alexis has left
  188. labdsf has left
  189. labdsf has joined
  190. alexis has joined
  191. ThibG has left
  192. alexis has left
  193. sonny has left
  194. sonny has joined
  195. mimi89999 has left
  196. alexis has joined
  197. blabla has left
  198. blabla has joined
  199. Str4tocaster has left
  200. Str4tocaster has joined
  201. marc has joined
  202. alexis has left
  203. krauq has joined
  204. krauq has joined
  205. lumi has joined
  206. daniel has left
  207. daniel has joined
  208. mimi89999 has left
  209. dwd has left
  210. Alex has joined
  211. Guus has joined
  212. alexis has joined
  213. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  214. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  215. lorddavidiii has joined
  216. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  217. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  218. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  219. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  220. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  221. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  222. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  223. Str4tocaster has left
  224. Str4tocaster has joined
  225. winfried has joined
  226. dwd has left
  227. dwd has joined
  228. Guus has left
  229. Guus has joined
  230. Guus has left
  231. blabla has left
  232. blabla has joined
  233. alacer has left
  234. alacer has joined
  235. alacer has left
  236. alacer has joined
  237. Guus has joined
  238. dedekin has left
  239. dedekin has joined
  240. alexis has left
  241. alexis has joined
  242. nyco has left
  243. Str4tocaster has left
  244. Str4tocaster has joined
  245. ralphm Tobias: I was looking at XEP-0385 (Stateless Inline Media Sharing). Have you considered sending multiple media files at once? Would it be supported by adding additional <file/> elements?
  246. alacer has left
  247. alacer has joined
  248. Str4tocaster has left
  249. Str4tocaster has joined
  250. alexis has left
  251. dedekin has left
  252. dedekin has joined
  253. daniel has left
  254. daniel has joined
  255. dwd has left
  256. dwd has joined
  257. dwd WOuldn't that be multiple <media-sharing/> elements? Or maybe even references depending.
  258. Tobias Multiple messages, multiple media-sharing or multiple file
  259. Tobias That probably needs to be specified
  260. mrdoctorwho has left
  261. lskdjf has joined
  262. Str4tocaster has left
  263. Str4tocaster has joined
  264. Tobias But inside a single message would probably be best. Multiple messages already works
  265. mrdoctorwho has joined
  266. Str4tocaster has left
  267. Str4tocaster has joined
  268. Str4tocaster has left
  269. Guus has left
  270. Guus has joined
  271. guusdk has left
  272. l has joined
  273. Guus has left
  274. guusdk has joined
  275. Guus has joined
  276. lskdjf has joined
  277. Str4tocaster has joined
  278. lskdjf has joined
  279. lskdjf has joined
  280. lskdjf has joined
  281. Str4tocaster has left
  282. Str4tocaster has joined
  283. lskdjf has joined
  284. lskdjf has left
  285. lskdjf has left
  286. lskdjf has joined
  287. vaulor has left
  288. ralphm Sure, I'd prefer a single message in my use case
  289. Ge0rG I'd prefer a single message to carry multiple 0184 delivery receipts, but that's not what the XEP allows...
  290. ralphm I'm a bit surprised also by the use of XEP-0372 References here. In my thinking, References was meant to annotate a previous message. This seems to leave off the uri attribute to refer to the current one. I think that use case has not been properly defined.
  291. ralphm In fact, in my use case, there wouldn't necessarily be a part of the text to be reference.
  292. ralphm d
  293. ralphm More like the 'add attachment' button in many messengers.
  294. matlag has left
  295. ralphm Ge0rG: maybe XEP-0333 is more appropriate for you?
  296. lumi has left
  297. Ge0rG ralphm: I want per message receipts, but with a more efficient delivery
  298. ralphm I'm not sure if I can see the use case, but yeah, then that doesn't help
  299. ralphm Anyway, I was really looking at Tobias' spec only right now.
  300. nyco has left
  301. vaulor has joined
  302. Ge0rG The use case is after mam sync / fetching offline messages. You need to ack a bunch of incoming messages, and the respective payloads are just ids, wrapped into a bunch of boilerplate
  303. alexis has joined
  304. mightyBroccoli has left
  305. alexis has left
  306. alexis has joined
  307. alexis has left
  308. Str4tocaster has left
  309. Str4tocaster has joined
  310. Str4tocaster has left
  311. Str4tocaster has joined
  312. alacer has left
  313. alacer has joined
  314. Str4tocaster has left
  315. Str4tocaster has joined
  316. alexis has joined
  317. Zash has left
  318. lskdjf has joined
  319. Str4tocaster has left
  320. Alex has left
  321. Str4tocaster has joined
  322. mightyBroccoli has joined
  323. ThibG has joined
  324. Guus has left
  325. Guus has joined
  326. Guus has left
  327. alacer has left
  328. intosi has joined
  329. matlag has left
  330. alexis has left
  331. alexis has joined
  332. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  333. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  334. lskdjf has joined
  335. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  336. thorsten has left
  337. ThibG has left
  338. ThibG has joined
  339. alexis has left
  340. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  341. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  342. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  343. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  344. nyco has left
  345. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  346. thorsten has joined
  347. moparisthebest has left
  348. daniel has left
  349. daniel has joined
  350. alexis has joined
  351. Str4tocaster has left
  352. Alex has joined
  353. vanitasvitae has left
  354. Holger has left
  355. ThibG has left
  356. ThibG has joined
  357. alexis has left
  358. nyco has left
  359. dwd ralphm, No, references were always meant to be capable of referring to the current message. For hyperlinky stuff.
  360. Alex has left
  361. l has left
  362. daniel > The use case is after mam sync / fetching offline messages. You need to ack a bunch of incoming messages, and the respective payloads are just ids, wrapped into a bunch of boilerplate Ge0rG: I think we either talked about this before or I independently had the thought of just bundling multiple receipts in a single message
  363. ralphm Ge0rG: but XEP-0333 just marks the last one, so that covers the use case
  364. jonas’ ralphm, no it doesn’t, because you can’t be sure that all messages between two markers actually
  365. jonas’ ralphm, no it doesn’t, because you can’t be sure that all messages between two markers actually arrived
  366. daniel However in reality at least the bandwidth overhead of multiple messages vs one would be negligible if we had proper compression
  367. daniel We should really revisit the compression xep
  368. daniel And make it secure ™
  369. lorddavidiii has left
  370. ralphm dwd: ah, I guess the references XEP needs to point this out then. Nevertheless, it doesn't seem useful for when you don't have a particular part of the message to reference, when sending media.
  371. Zash Someone Should™
  372. ralphm jonas’: arrived at the user or at his server?
  373. Zash What happens if the receiving users archive acks messages when they are saved into the archive?
  374. waqas has joined
  375. alexis has joined
  376. blabla has left
  377. alexis has joined
  378. alexis has left
  379. Guus has joined
  380. jonas’ ralphm, both
  381. alexis has joined
  382. alexis has left
  383. ralphm Zash: right
  384. dedekin > would be negligible if we had proper compression You could start with https://github.com/mgp25/Chat-API/wiki/FunXMPP-Protocol :-)
  385. Seve And call it WhatshAPPening
  386. jonas’ looks like they invented a stripped-down version of EXI
  387. !xsf_martin has left
  388. mrdoctorwho has joined
  389. mrdoctorwho has joined
  390. lskdjf has joined
  391. alexis has joined
  392. lskdjf has joined
  393. Zash jonas’: almost
  394. jonas’ I expect EXI to be more useful than generic compression in the general XMPP case actually
  395. pep. Without the negotiation bits? ("these are the namespaces I'll be using")
  396. Zash EXI is more involved tho
  397. pep. (Re almost exi)
  398. jonas’ Zash, that’s true
  399. ThibG has joined
  400. daniel > I expect EXI to be more useful than generic compression in the general XMPP case actually But arguably a lot harder to implement
  401. jonas’ probably
  402. Zash "FunXMPP" is closer to a fixed compression dictionary IIRC
  403. daniel Especially since the xep is apparently garbage
  404. jonas’ if there are no ready-to-use libs
  405. jonas’ Zash, yes, which is also what EXI does
  406. fippo hah. This one is much better than exi for chat! http://cvs.schmorp.de/Net-Knuddels/Net/Knuddels/Dictionary.pm?revision=1.5&view=markup
  407. Zash jonas’: EXI generates those from schemas tho
  408. jonas’ Zash, true
  409. fippo why compress protocol when you can compress the chat message content
  410. rion has left
  411. Zash fippo: wut
  412. jonas’ I sense sarcasm
  413. daniel But fwiw I'd love to play with exi if I can get a server dev on board
  414. Zash jonas’: sure hope so, since that's the opposite of what we want here
  415. alexis has left
  416. fippo zash: this module is not a joke even. i think the knuddels stuff came up in the late 90s, mostly in germany. they were alive until a recent databreach
  417. jonas’ is there a lua-exi?
  418. Zash jonas’: nope
  419. jonas’ pity
  420. Zash And EXI seems complex enough that I'd rather use a library than NIH it
  421. jonas’ yes please
  422. jonas’ is there even any floss implementation of EXI?
  423. pep. Deprecate it! It's too complex you'll never get it right! /s
  424. jonas’ that libexi is "status: planning" on sourceforge, whatever that means
  425. Zash Thanks Firefox, I really did mean to go to http://EXIstentialcomics.com/
  426. daniel jonas’: a Java one
  427. daniel But that's literally the only one I believe
  428. Zash http://exip.sourceforge.net/ ?
  429. Kev daniel: I'm interested in EXI, actually, but no clue where we'd start to get something sensible (and no cycles to do anything immediately).
  430. APach has left
  431. daniel Compression - be it exi or an improved compression xep - would make for a good summit topic
  432. SamWhited That's a good idea
  433. Guus wasn't Arc Riley working on EXI stuff?
  434. lskdjf has joined
  435. daniel Guus: yes. He was the one who told us that the xep is garbage
  436. daniel (probably not his exact words)
  437. Guus Where's he off to anyways? Haven't seen him in ages.
  438. jonas’ vanished after last year’s board elections essentially
  439. jonas’ hope they’re alright…
  440. APach has joined
  441. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  442. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  443. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  444. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  445. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  446. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  447. Zash You could define a zlib-safe that requires flushing between every stanza (or when to/from changes in some way)
  448. intosi has left
  449. APach has left
  450. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  451. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  452. dwd Zash, Am I right in thinking Prosody has built-in support for JWT authentication for BOSH/WebSocket connections?
  453. Zash dwd: What makes you think that?
  454. Zash What does that even mean?
  455. dwd Zash, I was under the impression that Jitsi used something like that.
  456. dwd Zash, Of course, I could so easily be wrong.
  457. daniel Sounds like an reasonable approach to 'fixing' that xep
  458. Guus dwd: Jitsi might have added custom code (it did so for a number of things, iirc)
  459. dwd Seems to have, indeed.
  460. Guus dwd: https://github.com/jitsi/lib-jitsi-meet/blob/master/doc/tokens.md
  461. Guus that's likely it
  462. dwd Yeah, I just found that myself.
  463. ralphm Isn't the issue with compression and encryption that a MiM can inject bits of information in messages going to an entity that are sure to be returned, to learn about the dictionary?
  464. Zash ralphm: Yes, like iq id attributes.
  465. dwd ralphm, Sorta. Compression oracles work by inserting known plaintext into a compression stream. So in our case, the compression stream is the entire session, so an attacker just sends messages to see if they can guess what's been sent before.
  466. Zash ralphm: If you flush between stanzas, that goes away
  467. APach has joined
  468. dwd ralphm, But an attacker has to be able to see the compressed/encrypted stream, to count octets. I've generally considered this quite a hard attack.
  469. ralphm like on a mobile device?
  470. Zash You usually need a *lot* of requests to get actual secrets out
  471. ralphm ok, I had no idea how practicle an attack like this is
  472. jonas’ https://blog.thijsalkema.de/blog/2014/08/07/https-attacks-and-xmpp-2-crime-and-breach/
  473. ralphm also, I'm particular curious about server-to-server connections in this regard
  474. Zash ralphm: https://blog.thijsalkema.de/blog/2014/08/07/https-attacks-and-xmpp-2-crime-and-breach/
  475. Zash jonas’: ha
  476. dwd ralphm, By which I mean, if an attacker has got to the point that they've got full access to your network traffic *and* is willing to expose themselves by sending traffic over tyour XMPP session as well, they're getting pretty desperate.
  477. jonas’ ninja’d
  478. ralphm I know that document, but sure
  479. jonas’ dwd, sending traffic to ones XMPP session is not that hard using a botnet. I get a lot of unsolicited traffic all day.
  480. jonas’ that’s not *that* suspicious anymore
  481. dwd jonas’, Sure, but the attacker *also* has to have visibility over your TCP sessions.
  482. jonas’ that’s true
  483. Zash But are the amounts of traffict required to do an actual attack small enough to evade admins being annoyed by the bandwidth usage?
  484. jonas’ I wouldn’t count on admins thwarting an attack
  485. dwd Zash, Maybe. Depends what they're trying to discover. It'd be relatively simple to find out, for example, if you were in this MUC by sending you traffic including the room's jid. But then, it's far easier to just just the MUC and look...
  486. dwd Zash, Maybe. Depends what they're trying to discover. It'd be relatively simple to find out, for example, if you were in this MUC by sending you traffic including the room's jid. But then, it's far easier to just join the MUC and look...
  487. Zash Another way to fix this is to have a fixed dictionary
  488. dwd Zash, That's not how zlib works.
  489. Zash dwd: There are other compression libraries
  490. Zash dwd: And you can sorta fake it by feeding it a dictionary before every ... chunk .. somehow.
  491. dwd Zash, Sure. But then you're only able to compress, say, the XML. So you'd be into EXI territory.
  492. alexis has joined
  493. Zash dwd: Picking say zstandard and training a dictionary on some XMPP data ought to be a lot easier to do than implementing all of EXI
  494. dwd Zash, Better solution of course is to use a constant-bandwidth transmission medium. :-)
  495. SamWhited Not necessarily, the spec could say that the dictionary must contain "@yourserver.com" or similar (assuming we want to target large rosters and assume that most people will be using the same server as their friends)
  496. Kev dwd: So padding all stanzas to the 1GB mark?
  497. SamWhited But I doubt a fixed dictionary is actually practical; interesting to think about though.
  498. Zash Kev: 10MB and you have a deal
  499. dwd Kev, No, just transmitting at a constant rate, and including padding.
  500. dwd Kev, It works quite well on radios. :-)
  501. Zash Whitespace flood instead of ping?
  502. jonas’ like ssh does for keystrokes? :)
  503. Zash jonas’: REAL TIME TEXT?
  504. jonas’ !!
  505. jjrh has left
  506. jjrh has joined
  507. Zash SamWhited: Could do something where the client downloads and caches a dictionary on connect. Then it can be tuned to the server and stuff. More complexity tho and closer to EXI
  508. Zash (Can you tell that I just found `zstd --train ...` ?)
  509. SamWhited ooh, yah, that's interesting. It would be fun to think more about what sort of policies the server could create that way
  510. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  511. jonas’ Zash, interesting
  512. lorddavidiii has left
  513. SamWhited I say "policies", but I guess you don't have to target anything if you do that. Just train it on lots of streams and see what the most common stuff is.
  514. Ge0rG And you'll end up leaking private data in your dictionaries.
  515. lorddavidiii has joined
  516. Zash Trade-offs
  517. SamWhited So exclude bits of the stream you don't want it to see
  518. SamWhited Start training after stream negotiation, drop IDs, messages probably won't matter because if a phrase is reused enough it's probably not private, etc.
  519. Zash If we knew which bits that was, we could do nice compression.
  520. Zash ... and that's basically what FunXMPP is
  521. SamWhited Fair
  522. lskdjf has joined
  523. Zash Pre-defined dictionary
  524. Zash With common things like "<message " and such
  525. jonas’ Zash, except with zstd, there would be a standard-ish way to translate that dictionary
  526. jonas’ and we wouldn’t be limited to keep XML metacharacters in place
  527. jonas’ for example, 'from="' could be one token in the dict
  528. Zash all known xmlns="..." etc
  529. jonas’ yupp
  530. ralphm Hate to interrupt, but…
  531. ralphm set the topic to XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  532. thorsten has joined
  533. ralphm bangs gavel
  534. jonas’ '<a xmlns="urn:xmpp:sm:2" h="' :-)
  535. nyco here
  536. jonas’ shuts up now
  537. ralphm 0. Welcome and Agenda
  538. nyco quorum?
  539. ralphm MattJ sent regrets
  540. rion has left
  541. daniel has joined
  542. ralphm Guus?
  543. Guus I"m here
  544. jjrh has left
  545. jjrh has joined
  546. ralphm Yay
  547. Guus (no agenda items from me)
  548. ralphm I have Elections and FOSDEM
  549. lorddavidiii has left
  550. nyco and ED?
  551. ralphm nyco?
  552. ralphm Ok
  553. ralphm 1. FOSDEM
  554. nyco FOSDEM/Summit is for SCAM?
  555. ralphm We've requested a stand again.
  556. ralphm (just informative)
  557. nyco oh great
  558. nyco thx a lot
  559. Guus (what nyco said)
  560. ralphm Also, we've secured the location for the Summit
  561. nyco has left
  562. lskdjf has joined
  563. Guus I intend to make reservations for the annual dinner later this week
  564. lorddavidiii has joined
  565. ralphm We now need to start really inviting people to come and look at hotel deals
  566. Guus also, I'm assuming that last years hotel arrangements were ok? I'll redo those too, then
  567. ralphm nods
  568. ralphm That's it for me on this.
  569. jjrh has left
  570. jjrh has joined
  571. Guus one thing
  572. Guus now that you raised the topic
  573. Guus last year, we, as in the XSF, invited three people to summit and fosdem, sponsoring them. I dubbed them 'young potentials', I think.
  574. l has joined
  575. l has joined
  576. l has joined
  577. Guus do we want to do something like that again this year
  578. l has joined
  579. l has joined
  580. l has joined
  581. l has joined
  582. Guus and if so, who? Last year, we extended an invitation to gsoc students. We did not participate in gsoc this year.
  583. nyco what was the outcome of this?
  584. Guus We had two students attend, iirc
  585. nyco how much were we attractive?
  586. Guus both of them are still active in the ignite realtime community
  587. j.r has left
  588. Guus at least one of them mentioned that he'll be going to FOSDEM again this year.
  589. nyco so we might wanna do it again, I'd go for it...
  590. Guus I kind of like the concept of doing such sponsoring, but I can't immediately identify candidates for this iteration.
  591. Guus Do you have suggestions for candidates?
  592. ralphm Let the records reflect that suggestions are welcome.
  593. j.r has joined
  594. ralphm Let's put it back on next weeks agenda
  595. Guus k
  596. ralphm 2. Elections
  597. ralphm With 3 days left, the list is wanting
  598. Guus we're at 4 candidates for board, 3 for council. All sitting candidates, I think
  599. ralphm Indeed
  600. Kev Sorry, lagging here, but from the peanut gallery, did any of the young hopefuls remain active in the standards community, or just for a particular project?
  601. Kev We've moved on, nevermind. As you were.
  602. ralphm Kev: Guus can still answer that one.
  603. Guus Kev: one is still active, afaik.
  604. ralphm Should we be worried about Council specifically? Three people is really meager
  605. Guus Paul / Vanitas
  606. Kev It's only two, actually, with one intending to apply but hasn't yet.
  607. Kev I was going to take a year off, but I'll throw my hat into the ring again now.
  608. ralphm Kev: well, if you mean: there page isn't actually there yet, we then also only have 2 for Board. *shame*
  609. Guus I wonder if there are people that are inclined to run, but are hold back for some reason
  610. ralphm Shall I sent another reminder?
  611. nyco yes, please, I think
  612. ralphm Ok.
  613. Guus Well, Alex just did one?
  614. Guus shrugs
  615. ralphm Last Friday, yes.
  616. nyco today is good, because it's Thu, and still a week day
  617. ralphm Right
  618. ralphm 3. Executive Director
  619. l has left
  620. Kev Another Council application in.
  621. Guus I think the relevant people now know that we have an election. I don't think it's a matter of pointing that out. Maybe we can persuade them to actually run, in some way though.
  622. nyco reminder at -48h, -24h, 12h, 6h, 1h, 30 min... 😉
  623. ralphm We haven't had one since Peter resigned this post. There's been question on needing one, and to be honest, maybe we don't.
  624. Guus Thanks Kev
  625. Guus Ralph, we briefly discussed this last week. I offered to take over from Martin, in doing an inventory of tasks/responsibilities.
  626. Guus which I wanted to do after we actually meet with Peter, for this and financials, which is another 'todo' that's been outstanding for to long..
  627. ralphm Ok
  628. nyco if we don't have an ED, then do we need to modify the bylaws? or we just elect a ghost ED?
  629. Guus I think Peter stated that he intended to resign as soon as we had a replacement.
  630. Guus as he's not actually doing anything in the role currently, I prefer having this status-quo over undertaking the massive operation that is rewriting the bylaws.
  631. ralphm What I've also seen done is that the Chair of the Board is appointed in such role in the absense of a candidate.
  632. Guus but, we should move on this. We should have, ages ago.
  633. ralphm (like in the company I currently work at)
  634. nyco ah I like that the chair is ED as well
  635. alexis has left
  636. nyco *the idea*
  637. Guus ralphm, if that works with our bylaws (I doubt it, for reasons), we might want to wait until next board picks a new chair then.
  638. ralphm Right, I'm not sure myself, it is just something that popped up.
  639. Guus worth considering, nonetheless.
  640. ralphm I think the ED is appointed by the Board, so I don't think it conflicts, but I'm happy to hear thoughts from the floor on this, before actually suggesting we do this.
  641. Kev ED being on Board would seem inappropriate to me, even if it's allowed.
  642. Kev Given the ED is used to break deadlocks in the Board.
  643. Guus "If the Board consists of an even number of Directors, the Executive Director of the Corporation shall be empowered to cast a tie-breaking vote (...)" complicates matters.
  644. Guus (what he said)
  645. ralphm Kev: indeed.
  646. ralphm The issue is that a) I haven't seen this been used in this corporation, b) I have no real other suggestions.
  647. ralphm But I'm happy to discuss with Guus and Peter.
  648. Guus Let's move on for now
  649. Guus *tap*tap* is this thing still on?
  650. Kev Everyone moved on.
  651. Guus ralphm usually swings his mighty hammer before he does. 🙂
  652. ralphm 4. EOB?
  653. ralphm AOB?
  654. Guus ennie, how nice and Dutch of you 😛
  655. Guus now.
  656. Guus no*
  657. ralphm 5. Date of Next
  658. ralphm +1W
  659. ralphm 6. Close
  660. ralphm Thanks all!
  661. ralphm bangs gavel
  662. ralphm set the topic to XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  663. Guus thanks!
  664. nyco thx everyone!
  665. ThibG has joined
  666. andrey.g has left
  667. Tobias has joined
  668. Tobias has joined
  669. ralphm unmutes jonas’
  670. nyco has left
  671. j.r ralphm: what was wrong with him/her?
  672. lovetox has left
  673. lovetox has joined
  674. Guus Nothing, but jonas’ applied self-mute-ation earlier.
  675. Guus (which might or might not have been a ploy to get out and play)
  676. jjrh has left
  677. Guus has left
  678. Guus has left
  679. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  680. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  681. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  682. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  683. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  684. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  685. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  686. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  687. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  688. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  689. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  690. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  691. lovetox has left
  692. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  693. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  694. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  695. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  696. alexis has joined
  697. peter has joined
  698. krauq has left
  699. krauq has left
  700. ralphm j.r: there was a discussion going just when I interrupted to have our Board meeting, so he said he would go silent
  701. matlag has left
  702. SamWhited has left
  703. genofire has left
  704. lumi has joined
  705. blabla has left
  706. marc has left
  707. marc has joined
  708. Guus has left
  709. Guus has left
  710. genofire has left
  711. genofire has left
  712. genofire has joined
  713. blabla has left
  714. lumi has joined
  715. lumi has joined
  716. guusdk has left
  717. guusdk has joined
  718. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  719. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  720. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  721. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  722. lovetox has joined
  723. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  724. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  725. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  726. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  727. tux has left
  728. Guus has left
  729. guusdk has left
  730. genofire has left
  731. krauq has left
  732. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  733. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  734. Guus has left
  735. alexis has left
  736. alexis has joined
  737. guusdk has left
  738. guusdk has joined
  739. 404.city has joined
  740. ThibG has left
  741. ThibG has joined
  742. labdsf has left
  743. labdsf has joined
  744. dwd has left
  745. guusdk has left
  746. guusdk has joined
  747. j.r has left
  748. j.r has joined
  749. Guus has left
  750. j.r has left
  751. j.r has joined
  752. Holger has left
  753. Guus has left
  754. alexis has left
  755. valo has joined
  756. alexis has joined
  757. tux has joined
  758. Alex has joined
  759. andrey.g has joined
  760. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  761. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  762. alexis has joined
  763. genofire has joined
  764. andrey.g has left
  765. ThibG has left
  766. ThibG has joined
  767. sonny has joined
  768. andrey.g has joined
  769. mrdoctorwho has joined
  770. mrdoctorwho has joined
  771. Steve Kille has left
  772. alexis has left
  773. Steve Kille has left
  774. sonny has left
  775. sonny has joined
  776. jjrh has left
  777. Steve Kille has joined
  778. jjrh has left
  779. jjrh has left
  780. Guus has left
  781. alexis has joined
  782. Guus has left
  783. labdsf has left
  784. jjrh has left
  785. l has joined
  786. l has joined
  787. l has joined
  788. l has joined
  789. l has joined
  790. l has joined
  791. l has joined
  792. l has joined
  793. l has joined
  794. l has left
  795. Steve Kille has left
  796. blabla has left
  797. Yagiza has left
  798. guusdk has left
  799. guusdk has left
  800. guusdk has joined
  801. jjrh has left
  802. valo has joined
  803. dwd has left
  804. Guus has left
  805. vaulor has joined
  806. labdsf has joined
  807. alacer has joined
  808. Guus has left
  809. ThibG has left
  810. ThibG has joined
  811. alexis has left
  812. Yagiza has left
  813. alexis has joined
  814. labdsf has left
  815. labdsf has joined
  816. vaulor has joined
  817. dwd has joined
  818. dwd has left
  819. mightyBroccoli has left
  820. mightyBroccoli has joined
  821. Alex has left
  822. Seve Still missing an applicant for Board?
  823. alexis has left
  824. labdsf has left
  825. guusdk Seve: we can always use more
  826. krauq has joined
  827. SamWhited Seve: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2018
  828. alexis has joined
  829. labdsf has joined
  830. guusdk has left
  831. guusdk has joined
  832. SamWhited has left
  833. Guus has left
  834. Guus has left
  835. daniel has left
  836. daniel has joined
  837. ThibG has left
  838. ThibG has joined
  839. guusdk has left
  840. guusdk has joined
  841. Maranda has left
  842. Maranda has joined
  843. Maranda has joined
  844. alexis has left
  845. daniel has left
  846. daniel has joined
  847. alexis has joined
  848. jjrh has left
  849. jjrh has left
  850. labdsf has left
  851. labdsf has joined
  852. lskdjf has joined
  853. lskdjf has joined
  854. labdsf has left
  855. labdsf has joined
  856. labdsf has joined
  857. vaulor has joined
  858. labdsf has left
  859. labdsf has joined
  860. valo has left
  861. vaulor has left
  862. vaulor has joined
  863. flow "Zash> jonas’: EXI generates those from schemas tho" not necessarily. i was told that it would perform also well without schemas, although I wonder if it would suffer from the same side channel based attacks as zlib compression
  864. flow "Kev> Sorry, lagging here, but from the peanut gallery, did any of the young hopefuls remain active in the standards community," I'd say vanitasvitae is active, he wrote a mail to standards@ not to long ago, but go no reply/response back, so I'd say the standards community is the entity being inactive here ;)
  865. rion has joined
  866. alexis has left
  867. blabla has left
  868. blabla has joined
  869. Maranda has left
  870. alexis has joined
  871. jjrh has left
  872. labdsf has left
  873. labdsf has joined
  874. Tobias has left
  875. Tobias has joined
  876. Maranda has left
  877. labdsf has left
  878. labdsf has joined
  879. marc has left
  880. rion has left
  881. rion has joined
  882. js has joined
  883. genofire has left
  884. labdsf has left
  885. labdsf has joined
  886. alexis has left
  887. alexis has joined
  888. ta has joined
  889. alexis has left
  890. alexis has joined
  891. Guus has left
  892. Guus has left
  893. matlag has left
  894. alacer has left
  895. js has left
  896. Valerian has joined
  897. js has joined
  898. jjrh has left
  899. moparisthebest has joined
  900. ta has left
  901. lorddavidiii has left
  902. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  903. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  904. jonas’ has left
  905. mimi89999 has joined
  906. jonas’ has left
  907. mimi89999 has joined
  908. l has joined
  909. lskdjf has joined
  910. js has left
  911. lskdjf has joined
  912. js has joined
  913. j.r has left
  914. j.r has joined
  915. jonas’ some numbers on the stream compression ratio (numbers are "bytes saved" in percent from the perspective of the client; i.e. tx == from client to server, rx == from server to client): aioxmpp test suite, sync_flush only (XEP-0138 as written): 40% rx, 20% tx aioxmpp test suite, full_flush after each stanza: 25% rx, 20% tx JabberCat startup (lots of mucs, lots of avatars), full flush after each stanza: 25% rx, 12% tx sync vs. full is executed on both sides (client and server)
  916. alexis has left
  917. jonas’ has left
  918. Maranda has left
  919. Maranda has left
  920. alexis has joined
  921. jonas’ some numbers on the stream compression ratio (numbers are "bytes saved" in percent from the perspective of the client; i.e. tx == from client to server, rx == from server to client): aioxmpp test suite, sync_flush only (XEP-0138 as written): 40% rx, 20% tx aioxmpp test suite, full_flush after each stanza: 25% rx, 20% tx JabberCat startup (lots of mucs, lots of avatars), full flush after each stanza: 25% rx, 12% tx JabberCat startup (lots of mucs, lots of avatars), sync flush: 36% rx, 12% tx sync vs. full is executed on both sides (client and server)
  922. mimi89999 has left
  923. jonas’ these are to be taken with a grain of salt due to the rather narrow use-cases
  924. mimi89999 has left
  925. Maranda has joined
  926. peter has left
  927. blabla has left
  928. rion has left
  929. rion has joined
  930. Guus has left
  931. Guus has left
  932. goffi has left
  933. Maranda has joined
  934. rion has left
  935. Syndace has joined
  936. daniel has left
  937. Valerian has left
  938. daniel has joined
  939. valo has joined
  940. alexis has left
  941. l has joined
  942. Kev has left
  943. alexis has joined
  944. Maranda has joined
  945. Maranda has joined
  946. matlag has left
  947. js has left
  948. lovetox has left
  949. js has joined
  950. tux has left
  951. alexis has left
  952. alexis has joined
  953. efrit has joined
  954. alexis has left
  955. alexis has joined
  956. alexis has left
  957. lnj has left
  958. Zash has left
  959. lskdjf has joined
  960. Guus has left
  961. Maranda has joined
  962. jjrh has left
  963. jjrh has left
  964. moparisthebest has joined
  965. Maranda has joined
  966. daniel has joined
  967. SamWhited has joined
  968. js has joined
  969. mightyBroccoli has joined
  970. dedekin has joined
  971. Guus has joined
  972. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  973. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  974. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  975. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  976. j.r has left
  977. j.r has joined
  978. efrit has left
  979. efrit has joined
  980. Maranda has joined
  981. dedekin has joined