Saturday, November 03, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[10:06:24] <jonas’> yes.
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[10:12:00] <edhelas> I made some changes yesterday to the MUC Avatars XEP (renamed to Resources Avatars) to generalize the publication of avatars on any XMPP resources. For the Pubsub nodes I used the <configure> tag (see https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/713/files#diff-5f89805e586ecd845ea99f0c89f337bcR141) and I'd be cirous to know your point of view on that way of doing things.
[10:14:04] <jonas’> edhelas, ping me tomorrow, I’ll probably not have the time to process the PR today
[10:14:13] <edhelas> no problem :)
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[10:25:15] <Ge0rG> edhelas: "resource" has a distinct meaning in xmpp, you should use "entity" probably
[10:27:55] <edhelas> indeed
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[10:32:24] <Ge0rG> And I don't think you need "XMPP" in the title
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[10:37:58] <Ge0rG> For my taste, "entity" is too generic, but I don't see a better term
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[10:56:05] <Ge0rG> "Service Avatars" wouldn't quite fit. Maybe "Non-User Avatars"? But that has some inelegance to it.
[10:58:22] <Ge0rG> "Machine Avatars" doesn't cut it either.
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[11:08:09] <flow> naming things is hard
[11:08:29] <flow> Right now I would favor "Entity Avatars"
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[11:20:52] <Ge0rG> Yes, my other suggestions were clearly worse, but intended to spur creative discussion.
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[14:04:33] <flow> It appears there is no way to determine if xep198 resumption is supported by just looking at the stream features. :/ I wonder if it is worth changing that…
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[14:13:22] <jonas’> flow, what would you gain from that information?
[14:17:21] <flow> jonas’, Smack's integration test framework could determine right after connecting if the stream resumption test should been run or not
[14:17:32] <flow> whereas right now I've to wait until <enabled/>
[14:17:43] <jonas’> I see
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[14:18:56] <flow> and given that resumption is an optional part of sm and most sm implementations start with ack only, it would just be nice to announce the availability of that optional feature in the stream features
[14:19:27] <jonas’> hm, normal clients probably don’t care because you can make use of acks anyways
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[14:33:19] <daniel> Plus you probably want the ack on resume
[14:33:32] <daniel> Even if the resume itself will fail
[14:34:53] <Zash> I made one that only acked, stored the 'h' count and returned that on attempted resume.
[14:35:50] <jonas’> how does that help?
[14:36:15] <Zash> Simple implementation, client gets to know what was lost.
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[14:36:49] <Zash> As in, it persisted the ack number across restarts and whatever.
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[14:37:09] <jonas’> hm, but stanzas from the server would then still be lost?
[14:38:06] <daniel> > hm, but stanzas from the server would then still be lost?
Get it from mam
[14:38:07] <Zash> They'd be known to be unacked at session destruction time
[14:38:16] <Zash> also that
[14:38:34] <daniel> I mean a full on sm implementation is still better
[14:38:42] <daniel> But I see the benefits of the simplicity
[14:39:05] <Zash> > Prosody - a study in simplicity
[14:40:55] <jonas’> interesting
[14:41:11] <jonas’> it violates expectations of the client though
[14:41:24] <jonas’> but not in a way which you need to be able to handle anyways…
[14:41:31] <jonas’> (e.g. an IQ response could be lost due to that)
[14:42:10] <jonas’> I wonder whether it’s valuable to degrade to this behaviour when memory pressure gets too high to maintain all hibernated sessions
[14:43:43] <Zash> That was probably the idea behind having the h value in the resumption-failed response
[14:45:45] <jonas’> ohhh
[14:45:54] <jonas’> so you’re saying "resumption failed, but here’s the h I know"
[14:45:58] <jonas’> I didn’t even know that was possible
[14:46:03] <Zash> It's new
[14:46:05] <Zash> relatively
[14:46:33] <jonas’> 2015-09-13. not sure I have an excuse for not seeing that...
[14:46:42] <Zash> Feels like yesterday
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[17:56:51] <Ge0rG> I wonder how many clients honor the server parameter for resumption.
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[18:37:28] <lovetox> Gajim does
[18:37:50] <lovetox> important, otherwise you resend messages already sent and produce duplicates
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[18:51:00] <Ge0rG> lovetox: I mean the location value
> The <enabled/> element MAY include a 'location' attribute to specify the server's preferred IP address or hostname (optionally with a port) for reconnection
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[18:54:21] <lovetox> gajim honors it
[18:54:25] <lovetox> though never tested
[18:55:24] <lovetox> let me take that back, it probably will not work :D
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[18:57:49] <rion> I'm not sure if it ever tested for Psi but the code is as well there
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[19:02:06] <Ge0rG> What's psi? 😜
[19:02:33] <Ge0rG> I know for sure it won't work in yaxim
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[19:38:38] <rion> yep. psi is somewhat unknown nowdays. almost no time for development. and in fact I prefer Telegram to xmpp.
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[19:40:21] <rion> although I released 1.4 a couple of days ago.
[19:40:44] <rion> basically includes just SM fixes
[19:41:56] <Ge0rG> Telegram is also very popular with Russian jabber spammers
[19:42:23] <rion> =)
[19:42:25] <Ge0rG> rion: there are still people using pidgin, so nothing against psi.
[19:42:49] <Ge0rG> rion: what about making psi as easily usable as telegram?
[19:43:13] <rion> Ge0rG: only if I quit my job.
[19:43:20] <rion> and family ))
[19:43:25] <Zash> Doooo iiiiit
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[19:43:36] <rion> :-D
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[19:44:31] <Ge0rG> Move under a bridge with free wifi and dedicate your life to Easy XMPP
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[19:46:44] <Link Mauve> Yup, I can highly recommend quitting your job if you can afford it.
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[19:52:29] <Ge0rG> I can't.
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[19:56:53] <Zash> Vägra jobba
Svik tillväxten
Var oförmögen
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