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Ge0rG
Is there a way to persistently put something into your presence for your contacts to see it without keeping a client logged in?
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jonas’
no
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jonas’
use PEP for that, maybe?
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Ge0rG
What if I want to limit it to individual contacts (speaking for a Moved redesign)
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Zash
PEP+?
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Ge0rG
So every of my contacts(' servers) need to subscribe to my Moved node?
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Ge0rG
you could send an 'unsubscribe' followed by a 'subscribe', because the server MUST store the latter!
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Ge0rG
one could send a <message><moved/> as well
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jonas’
Ge0rG, ahh, that’s the context
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jonas’
sending a <moved/> message + the unsubscribed+unsubscribe presence is probably not bad✎ -
Ge0rG
you can send a directed/broadcast presence with <moved/>, but that will vanish as soon as you logout
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jonas’
sending a <moved/> message + the unsubscribed+unsubscribe presence including the <moved/> is probably not bad ✏
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jonas’
Ge0rG, you could send type="unavailable" when you log out
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jonas’
with the payload
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Ge0rG
jonas’: will the server cache that?
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jonas’
dunno
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Zash
Maybe
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Ge0rG
MAYbe?
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jonas’
I feel like it should
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Zash
Prosody doesn't
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jonas’
pity
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Ge0rG
it should also cache an 'unsubscribe'
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Ge0rG
It should, but unfortunately it only MAY.
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Ge0rG
can has PR 6121?
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jonas’
add erratum
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Ge0rG
Where to?
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jonas’
dunno, figure out ietf process✎ -
jonas’
dunno, figure out ietf process? ✏
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fippo
ge0rg: wasn't the server allowed to return your last unavailable presence?
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Ge0rG
fippo: "allowed to" is not a behavior I can rely on
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fippo
i think that was allowd but then not used by many servers because it means a reply to *every* probe which makes presence traffic even worse
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fippo
xep-12 example 5 might do the job
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fippo
but i am not sure how many servers implement that either. and sending an extra iq to each contact...
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jonas’
don’t servers have to reply to every probe anyways?
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Ge0rG
fippo: it doesn't even contain the whole presence, just the non-i18n status text.
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Ge0rG
> Clients accepting the moved subscription SHOULD indicate to the user that that this subscription request was the result of a move operation and because of potential malicious behavior SHOULD NOT auto-accept the subscription without displaying the <moved/> JID to the user. I'm reading this as "clients MAY auto-accept the subscription if they display the <moved/> JID to the user." - am I right in that interpretation of English?
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Zash
Isn't RFC 2119 language not supposed to apply to UI things?
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Ge0rG
Zash: yes.
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MattJ
Zash, conventionally
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Ge0rG
But that doesn't answer my question.
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Ge0rG
I know it's not as much fun as discussing the applicability of lower-case RFC 2119 to UI, but still.
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Zash
Clients ShOuLd nOt
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Zash
Ge0rG: I believe I interpret the quoted text the same way you do.
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Ge0rG
Thanks.
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Zash
Implementation recommendation: Tell the user what happens.
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Ge0rG
What if the user isn't at the screen.
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Ge0rG
And there is still no clean way to persistently convey a <moved> when unsubscribing.
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Zash
Send out the informationator bot to search for and .. inform the user.
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Ge0rG
I think I'll have to <message> it.
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Zash
Get MattJ to look into https://issues.prosody.im/689 :)
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Zash
Blocker for all the nice things Ge0rG wants to fix :(
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Ge0rG
Zash: but this is only for 'subscribe'
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Ge0rG
is it still not fixed?
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Zash
nice things are not to be had!
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Zash
Ge0rG: Oh there's no such rule about keeping the unsubscribe(d)?
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Zash
Moved doesn't help when I lost my phone along with the autogenerated password it created the account with?
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Ge0rG
Zash: no.
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Ge0rG
and no.
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Zash
Message might be more reliable then.
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Ge0rG
Yes.
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Zash
<message> all the things
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Ge0rG
so send the same payload three times: message, unsubscribe, unsubscribed
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Zash
Heh
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Ge0rG
Zash: https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6121.html#sub-cancel-inbound > Implementation Note: If the user's account has no available resources when the inbound unsubscribed notification is received, the user's server MAY keep a record of the notification (ideally the complete presence stanza) and then deliver the notification when the account next has an available resource. This behavior provides more complete signaling to the user regarding the reasons for the roster change that occurred while the user was offline.
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Ge0rG
Maybe I need to rewrite PARS to use <message> then.
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Ge0rG
because prosody.
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Ge0rG
And then it's getting really weird. If a client auto-accepts a Moved, all other clients need to know about it as well.
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Ge0rG
So they can change message archive etc.
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Zash
Why?
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Zash
Ah, yeah
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Ge0rG
The longer I think about it, the worse everything becomes.
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Zash
Things are complicated, who knew?
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Ge0rG
a <message> will only be there in MAM for a limited time
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Kev
Will it?
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Ge0rG
Kev: do you have eternal MAM?
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Kev
I mean, heat death of the universe or something, sure, but possible as long as you're using your account.
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Kev
Yeah.
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Ge0rG
Kev: that's great!
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Ge0rG
My server had a meltdown because I was storing 14 days worth.
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Kev
isode.com's running with a few years now, I think.
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Ge0rG
Kev: how many indian trading bots are there on isode.com?
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Kev
Possibly fewer than average.
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Ge0rG
I don't know about other public servers, but there is a handful on mine.
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Ge0rG
with something like 10k msg/day
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Ge0rG
I suppose we don't have something like an account tombstone, right?
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Ge0rG
PEP or vcard would be potential candidates to put one in.
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perflyst
Hi, is there a rss feed for https://xmpp.org/blog.html available? I couldnt find one...
- Zash clicks RSS icon
- Zash gets https://xmpp.org/feeds/all.atom.xml
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Zash
Browsers hate this one small trick
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perflyst
I didnt see that "Feeds" on the left, thanks :)
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Zash
Oh look, there too
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Zash
In Firefox one can add back the RSS button that they removed because reasons.
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perflyst
what do you mean? rss button in firefox browser or on the website?
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Zash
in firefox
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perflyst
yeah that is because they removed / are removing rss support in firefox
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perflyst
https://www.ghacks.net/2018/07/25/mozilla-plans-to-remove-rss-feed-reader-and-live-bookmarks-support-from-firefox/
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Ge0rG
RSS is dead. Together with NNTP and XMPP.
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Zash
Can the Web be next?
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Ge0rG
No, the web is way too shittily designed to go down
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Zash
To shitty to fail!