Monday, November 19, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[00:13:31] *** Ge0rG has left the room
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[01:35:36] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
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[04:31:53] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
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[05:19:59] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[05:20:02] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
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[05:43:47] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[05:43:50] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[05:43:52] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
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[07:27:20] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
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[09:06:17] *** andy shows as "online"
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[09:16:00] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[09:30:32] *** Kev shows as "online"
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[10:46:35] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[11:04:03] *** 404.city shows as "online" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:04:03] *** 404.city shows as "online" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:04:04] *** 404.city shows as "online" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:04:04] *** 404.city shows as "online" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:04:04] *** 404.city shows as "online" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:04:08] *** 404.city shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[11:11:22] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[11:11:22] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
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[12:11:42] <Guus> the Observatory appears to be misbehaving. PHP errors on the front page. Jonas', would you mind kicking off that frontend docker hub project, to see if it goes away?
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[12:14:06] <jonas’> Guus, I can’t
[12:14:16] <jonas’> it needs manual iteam intervention, it’s not pulled automatically from docker hub
[12:14:16] <Guus> uhoh
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[12:14:37] <Guus> ah
[12:14:42] <jonas’> I’ve tried to get iteam attention for weeks now about this :(
[12:14:58] <jonas’> but in my mind, I already figured that we need to re-implement this on top of something less awful to maintain
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[12:17:22] <Guus> What we see now is not a relatively simple front-end issue?
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[12:17:39] <Guus> where's the code anyway? Docker pulls from a non-existing github repo?
[12:18:29] <Guus> https://bitbucket.org/horazont/xmppoke-frontend <-- that one?
[12:18:35] <Guus> err, bitbucket, not github
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[12:19:46] <jonas’> the xmppoke docker stuff itself on https://github.com/horazont/xmppoke-docker
[12:19:55] <jonas’> the frontend lives here: https://github.com/horazont/xmppoke-frontend-docker
[12:21:00] <Guus> yes, but line 14? https://github.com/horazont/xmppoke-frontend-docker/blob/master/Dockerfile#L14
[12:21:10] <edhelas> (I just posted the release note of Movim 0.14 on HN, for those that are interested https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18485822)
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[12:21:59] <jonas’> Guus, ha, nice
[12:22:00] <jonas’> but why
[12:22:06] <jonas’> I don’t have mit bitbucket credentials at hand to check
[12:22:59] <Guus> bitbucket never agreed with me
[12:23:11] <Guus> hopefully you can find out what happened later
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[12:24:37] <jonas’> Guus, I might forget, feel free to remind me later today (15:00Z+) or on wednesday
[12:24:49] <Guus> kk
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[12:49:24] <flow> why not put a static page up on xmpp.net, saying that we are looking for help maintaining it
[12:50:28] <Zash> Sounds good
[12:50:35] <daniel> I'd volunteer to just rewrite it. But I think someone else is already doing so
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[12:51:23] <Kev> It seems to be broken.
[12:51:37] <Kev> I restarted both poke and the frontend, and the frontend refuses to come up.
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[13:03:11] <Guus> Kev, that's probably because the docker instance is being composed partly from a repository that's currently unvailable.
[13:03:46] <Guus> before the restart, the frontend gave a different error.
[13:04:01] <Guus> Daniel: what makes you think that someone else is already doing so/
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[13:04:30] <daniel> Someone told me
[13:04:35] <daniel> 😏
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[13:05:18] <daniel> Holger mentioned that Matt the jabber.at admin is working on it and also sent me a link that I haven't had time to check out yet
[13:05:46] <Kev> Guus: It was just starting it, rather than recreating the image.
[13:05:46] <Holger> https://github.com/mathiasertl/xmpp-test
[13:06:29] <Holger> daniel: But in the meantime, he said "right now, it's more or less on ice".
[13:06:44] <daniel> If that doesn't lead anywhere I might start my own. I want a test that then will result in a simple boolean to integrate it into the compliance tester
[13:07:19] <daniel> And if I write the tooling to create the boolean I already have what it takes to generate a more verbose output
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[13:07:40] <Kev> I suspect that the frontend can't cope with being restarted without being recreated, or something.
[13:08:30] <Guus> Daniel / Holger: Nice!
[13:08:34] <Guus> Kev: Odd!
[13:09:20] <Guus> Until a viable replacement is available, it's probably best not to give up on our old instance though
[13:09:44] <Kev> It seems like someone's moved things around on the filesystem and broken things, but I don't remember who set this up.
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[13:10:05] <daniel> I think I might have to grow the compliance tester into a more general thing anyway. During the sprint I wrote a thing that tests for cors headers on the HTTP upload
[13:10:09] <Guus> might take a while before the replacement is ready. Looking at the effort that has gone into the old, but also the new tings (100+ commits) ...
[13:10:25] <daniel> At some point it will make sense to integrate tls testers
[13:10:26] <Guus> Kev, might've been me?
[13:10:35] <Kev> Let's see if I can at least fix the backup script before I go nuclear on it.
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[13:10:54] <Kev> As things stand the backup script is broken, and the README is wrong.
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[13:10:58] <Kev> (And the container won't start)
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[13:17:38] <Kev> Well, at least I've got the backup script working again.
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[13:24:58] <Kev> Oh, the creation scripts only work if the instance is running. If it's not running, they'll refuse to install a new one.
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[13:29:24] <Kev> Got it back to
Warning: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable in /var/www/html/index.php on line 97
state, at least.
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[13:33:50] <Guus> Thanks Kev
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[13:36:21] <jonas’> daniel, who is rewriting it?
[13:36:38] <jonas’> the TLS tests can be easily based on testssl.sh, it has a JSON formatted output
[13:36:45] <jonas’> that was the plan when I get around to do it, but I didn’t start
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[13:47:40] <Guus> jonas' : https://github.com/mathiasertl/xmpp-test
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[15:01:41] <Guus> Jonas' this is your 15:01Z callback ping 🙂
[15:02:01] <jonas’> thanks!
[15:03:23] <jonas’> apparently I changed my username and bitbucket doesn’t do redirects :)
[15:04:17] <moparisthebest> jonas’: what I'm hearing is you broke it and it's all your fault
[15:04:23] <jonas’> no
[15:04:29] <moparisthebest> Lol <3
[15:04:42] <jonas’> Guus, fix for the URL is pushed
[15:07:53] <Guus> thanks jonas' !
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[15:20:33] <jonas’> isn’t there a general race condition with multiple clients of the same account in a single MUC where when a MUC forwards a groupchat message to one of the clients and the client goes offline, it might get sent by the XMPP server to the other client ("most available resource")?
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[15:24:38] <Guus> jonas' : both index.php as well as list.php don't handle a scenario well where the find_score query doesn't return rows. I'm assuming that's easily fixed. I'm unsure why no scores are returned though. To much work to be processed?
[15:25:37] <jonas’> I don’t know
[15:25:38] <Guus> https://bitbucket.org/jssfr/xmppoke-frontend/src/84b48437dca24deaf7557c982c069015cf09a396/index.php <-- line 89 does appear to validate if scores is non-empty, but line 97 does not
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[15:25:45] <jonas’> I didn’t write the PHP code, and I don’t want to maintain it.
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[15:26:37] <Guus> I'll have a stab at fixing the code to prevent the ugly php error
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[15:28:42] <Guus> hargh, how do I fork in Bitbucket?
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[15:30:50] <Guus> ah, by creating a new repo
[15:32:13] <Guus> oh, good, it uses mercurial.
[15:32:19] *Guus gives up.
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[15:34:49] <jonas’> not that hard when you just want to patch a thing
[15:34:57] <jonas’> hg clone, do your thing, hg commit file1 file2 ...
[15:37:31] <Guus> sure, but that'll make me install hg.
[15:37:40] <Guus> I'm doing things in the text editor of bitbucket
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[15:49:22] <Guus> Jonas', I think I just created two PRs against your repo, that _should_ fix the issue
[15:51:51] <jonas’> Guus, can you try to try it for yourself?
[15:52:01] <jonas’> the frontend thing contains a docker-compose file which you should be able to use
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[17:02:46] <jonas’> Guus, hm, I’m really not fond of maintaining this
[17:03:09] <jonas’> I don’t feel comfortable in reviewing PHP changes, and yet I’m now somewhat of a gatekeeper
[17:03:12] <Guus> I'm to stupid for docker
[17:03:23] <Guus> somehow, my changes aren't picked up
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[17:04:09] <jonas’> did you re-build the image? with the correct tag?
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[17:09:03] <Guus> probably not
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[17:13:08] <Guus> ah, got it
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[17:18:25] <Guus> jonas' : my commits fix php-related errors
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[17:18:38] <Guus> likely not the underlying issue of the tests not being executed
[17:18:47] <Guus> but at least, it's failing more gracefully now.
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[17:20:08] <jonas’> mmm
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[19:25:52] <MattJ> jonas’ [15:20]:
> isn’t there a general race condition with multiple clients of the same account in a single MUC where when a MUC forwards a groupchat message to one of the clients and the client goes offline, it might get sent by the XMPP server to the other client ("most available resource")?
[19:26:03] <jonas’> no, there isn’t, I figured it out by now
[19:26:08] <jonas’> due to:
8.5.3.2.1. Message

For a message stanza of type "normal", "groupchat", or "headline",
the server MUST either (a) silently ignore the stanza or (b) return
an error stanza to the sender, which SHOULD be <service-
unavailable/>.
[19:26:12] <jonas’> sorry for the noise
[19:26:15] <MattJ> Groupchat messages are not redirected to other resources
[19:26:28] <MattJ> Sorry, great :)
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[19:48:51] <Ge0rG> Also "silently ignore the stanza"
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[19:50:08] <MattJ> Silently ignore that option
[19:50:29] <Ge0rG> Implementation defined behavior.
[19:51:17] <jonas’> IB!
[19:51:27] <jonas’> at least not UB!
[19:51:30] <MattJ> Silently ignore buggy implementations
[19:51:51] <Ge0rG> MattJ: they are not buggy if they are compliant
[19:52:01] <MattJ> You think so? :)
[19:52:15] <Ge0rG> MattJ: by your definition, mod_carbons and mod_mam are buggy as well
[19:52:35] *Ge0rG shortly considered writing "as hell"
[19:52:37] <MattJ> They are
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[19:52:58] <Ge0rG> And the XEPs are buggy too. And the RFC.
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[19:53:10] <MattJ> TCP/IP is buggy, but (mostly) follows spec
[19:53:26] <MattJ> Abandon hope
[19:53:30] <Zash> Humans are buggy
[19:53:56] <jonas’> it’s all buggy
[19:54:20] <MattJ> Not all
[19:54:33] <MattJ> The stuff we haven't written yet is perfect
[19:54:35] <Ge0rG> It's buggy all the way down. A fractal of bad protocol design
[19:54:50] <MattJ> Ge0rG: great name for a client!
[19:55:06] <Ge0rG> MattJ: "Buggy"? 😀
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[19:55:30] <moparisthebest> Maybe you should just start from scratch, call it matrix or something
[19:55:36] <Zash> Bug is a kind of dance?
[19:55:44] <moparisthebest> I'm sure you won't hit the same problems :)
[19:55:50] <Ge0rG> > have you tried the Buggy messenger?
All of them!
[19:56:10] <Zash> -y as suffix is hip again?
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[19:56:13] <Zash> hippy
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[20:04:10] <Ge0rG> Buggy, the zimpy messenger.
[20:04:27] <Ge0rG> My phone auto corrected zimpy to "gimpy"
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[20:18:09] <lovetox> when was the last XEP that made it to DRAFT, just out of interest?
[20:18:48] <jonas’> commit c58d3bbf5ed18e95b374e3bc1db9a85de40f2661
Author: Jonas Wielicki <j.wielicki@sotecware.net>
Date: Thu Jan 25 08:54:39 2018 +0100

XEP-0387: Move to draft
[20:18:51] <jonas’> that’s a good candidate
[20:18:56] <Zash> 1806, it was a cold winter that year
[20:19:04] <jonas’> ha, the compliance suites
[20:20:06] <lovetox> lol :D
[20:20:12] <lovetox> ok and now a real xep
[20:20:14] <lovetox> please
[20:20:33] <Zash> must have been in the dark ages
[20:20:34] <jonas’> I’d h ave to do more magic than that, but it might be May 2017
[20:20:38] <jonas’> or March?
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[20:20:50] <jonas’> march
[20:21:02] <jonas’> back when Sam was still editoring much -- it’s not my fault, I swear!!
[20:21:05] <Ge0rG> Getting compliance Suite into draft was hard enough!
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[20:22:07] <jonas’> yes, XEP-0233 was the last one moving to draft before that, that was in Mar 2017
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[21:21:54] <SamWhited> Speaking of compliance suites, someone should do some for this upcoming year (even if they're basically the same) so that they don't appear out of date
[21:22:21] <jonas’> yeah, I’ve got that on my todo
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[21:25:46] <Ge0rG> If it's the same, can we just update the year?
[21:26:23] <jonas’> next council will decide
[21:26:29] <jonas’> (but I’m in favour)
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[21:30:54] <Ge0rG> I think I was missing one XEP when explaining what's relevant for mobile to haeckse last weekend
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[21:32:07] <Ge0rG> Oh yes, it's missing 0184
[21:33:06] <Ge0rG> I don't even understand how we could miss that.
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