XSF Discussion - 2018-11-22


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  318. MattJ Sorry, not sure I'll be able to actively participate in a meeting (if there is one today)
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  321. nyco there should be one... ok, thx for telling
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  323. nyco aaaaand... time!
  324. Guus Peekaboo
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  326. Guus ralphm, are you here too?
  327. Guus it'd be kind of a shame to let our last one slide ...
  328. nyco anway, we are "fired" tonight... 😉
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  330. Guus I'm very likely to miss tonights election meeting, sadly
  331. nyco I will miss it too
  332. ralphm I am
  333. ralphm bangs gavel
  334. nyco cool
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  336. ralphm 0. Welcome + Agenda
  337. ralphm Welcome to the last meeting of this term.
  338. moparisthebest has left
  339. ralphm Topics?
  340. Guus various, see trello
  341. nyco possible agenda item: clean up the Trello board for the next members 😉
  342. Guus I actually added a couple, primarily triggered by Jonas
  343. moparisthebest has joined
  344. ralphm set the topic to XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  345. ralphm I'll add him
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  348. Guus wfm, and takes care of item 1 🙂
  349. ralphm Right
  350. ralphm Ok
  351. ralphm 1. Meeting with Peter
  352. ralphm We almost scheduled a meeting, but I then I didn't.
  353. ralphm If I'm reelected, I will follow up right after
  354. Guus If you're not, I will. If we're both not, nyco must have been, so I'm volunteering him then 😃
  355. ralphm Haha
  356. nyco not possible that two of you are not
  357. ralphm 2. GSoC 2019
  358. ralphm I think as an organisation, we'd like to participate, *when* there is somebody who'll take the lead on getting it done.
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  360. ralphm If there are any takers present, please let yourselves known. Otherwise, we should put out a request for it.
  361. Guus So, we'll first have to find a volunteer
  362. nyco so who "volunteers" who, this time? 😉
  363. Guus Kev did it before, so it'd make sense to name-drop him...
  364. nyco what is the workload?
  365. Guus nyco: it's not neglectible
  366. nyco I understand mostly paperwork, reminders, being organised
  367. Guus I think we're basically looking for someone who would be organisation admin, in gsoc terms
  368. Guus there's a lot to be done for that (to much to sum up here, but look at the GSOC website, there's loads of information there)
  369. nyco so we send a call for volunteer on the ML ?
  370. Guus Sounds good to me
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  372. ralphm 3. Summit / FOSDEM
  373. ralphm I have still not seen any announcement on stands
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  376. Ge0rG there is also a desire to do an XMPP Sprint around FOSDEM/Summit.
  377. Ge0rG I think daniel is involved with planning that.
  378. nyco isn't that too much?
  379. nyco oh, great then
  380. nyco when?
  381. Ge0rG wed/sat or wed/sun are *possible* options
  382. ralphm I think we also have access to more space this time, so we can probably do breakouts
  383. ralphm (at Cisco)
  384. ralphm anyway, that's for SCAM, not in this meeting
  385. Guus I'd be nice to keep the gang together during the summit, I think?
  386. Guus but, what he said
  387. Guus also, I love the idea of doing sprints
  388. nyco one summit to bind them all
  389. nyco indeed
  390. ralphm I don't think there's anything else to report on this
  391. Guus I've enquired for a Master of Ceremony, which tentatively agreed to be one.
  392. Guus but other than that, no, nothing to report
  393. ralphm 4. XEP-0001 Proposed->Experimental transition
  394. Guus I've read up on the request, which in itself made sense to me
  395. ralphm I'm +1 on this request
  396. Guus I was wondering if that omission was there by design though
  397. ralphm We can change the design
  398. Guus or if it is simply something that was missed
  399. Guus well, if it was there by design, then it must've had some reasoning behind it
  400. ralphm Well, fortunately the Approving Body makes the final decision on taking this new transition, so I think that's good enough.
  401. ralphm Guus: well, we've changed the transitions before. It is ok, really.
  402. Guus I'm not saying we can't change it 🙂
  403. ralphm If you want additional blessing, bring it up when we talk to stpeter.
  404. Guus I'm just wondering why it's missing in the first place 🙂
  405. ralphm Probably because it didn't come up.
  406. ralphm (I don't recall it coming up in my 8 terms)
  407. ralphm nyco?
  408. Guus ok, I'll bring it up in the talk with Peter, for my ease of mind 🙂
  409. ralphm Guus: are you voting anyway?
  410. nyco following discussion, not disagreeing 😉
  411. Guus no, I'll wait for Peter's feedback.
  412. Guus which makes this a matter for next board... I guess?
  413. ralphm Ok. Let the records note that we carry this over to (a) next meeting of the Board.
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  415. ralphm 5. AOB?
  416. nyco nope
  417. Guus your quick reaction to my idea of launching some kind of IOS contest, perhaps?
  418. Guus did you guys catch that?
  419. nyco what?
  420. ralphm ?
  421. Guus basically: I'm toying with an idea to have the XSF organize some kind of XPrize-style prize for development of something that we're sorely missing today, an ios-client being an obvious, but perhaps not only, choice.
  422. Guus this was discussed in this MUC a couple of days ago, wondered if you guys caught it.
  423. nyco I missed it
  424. nyco makes sense
  425. Guus the idea is to stimulate development, to make the XMPP ecosystem more complete.
  426. nyco I fear difficulty may appear on the money front, but to be proven
  427. Guus at this stage, I primarily would like to know if the idea is worth exploring, according to you
  428. nyco I strongly support an attempt
  429. ralphm Not against the idea, but needs more detail.
  430. Guus k, tx
  431. ralphm 6. Date of Next
  432. nyco nope
  433. nyco 😉
  434. nyco we let "them" decide
  435. ralphm As a handover, I suggest holding a meeting a week from now again.
  436. nyco ah, ok, then I'm in, +1W
  437. ralphm Even if I'd not be elected, I'd still be chair, so that's ok for me to schedule :-D
  438. Guus one of the board candidates is from the US, which might not be up by then. 🙂
  439. ralphm So penciling it in.
  440. ralphm 7.
  441. ralphm Close
  442. nyco bye, team 😉
  443. ralphm I'd like to thank everyone on the 2018/2019 Board and Council for past year's effords. Curious about the election results.
  444. ralphm Cheers!
  445. Guus likewise
  446. nyco yeah, merci beaucoup
  447. ralphm bangs gavel
  448. nyco aaaaand, who sends the minutes?
  449. ralphm set the topic to XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  450. ralphm nyco: I think you just volunteered.
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  453. ralphm Guus: a word popped up in my mind earlier today: swag.
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  455. Guus I'm fresh out, and meaning to order
  456. Guus but I only have design for stickers, I think
  457. Guus so, if you have more ideas/designs... by all means.
  458. Ge0rG I want a Jabber™ hoodie.
  459. Guus look, a volunteer for making a design 🙂
  460. Guus are we selling swag again, or just having giveaways this year?
  461. Guus as I think most, if not all, of our inventory has been sold in last years?
  462. nyco I have a preference for selling, but needs effort
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  464. Guus oh, yeah, maybe you guys should all sign up for joining in our wiki 🙂
  465. ralphm We have no inventory left
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  467. Ge0rG the wiki doesn't work well on mobile.
  468. Guus https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2019 https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_23
  469. Guus hattip to Seve for creating those pages
  470. ralphm Ge0rG: It is highly unlikely that we will have Jabber™ hoodies made.
  471. Guus can we, license wise?
  472. ralphm There've also been requests last year to have other things than hoodies. Kev and dwd might have ideas.
  473. ralphm Guus: yes
  474. moparisthebest did memberbot go down?
  475. nyco has left
  476. ralphm Alex ^
  477. ralphm (it is up for me, I think)
  478. Ge0rG memberbot works for me as well
  479. Guus memberbot is up and responsive to me
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  482. moparisthebest yep working again, though I just got on gajim and it has an angry face and under construction emoji as a name has that always been there?
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  485. Guus haven't noticed, but that doesn't say much.
  486. moparisthebest for the second time it froze after I cast my first vote for board...
  487. Ge0rG maybe Gajim froze?
  488. moparisthebest maybe I'm breaking it somehow, first time I was using conversations, now gajim
  489. Yagiza has joined
  490. Guus I've had zero problems with Converse, and Conversations a few elections back.
  491. moparisthebest neither have I
  492. ralphm moparisthebest: those are User Activity and User Mood icons.
  493. moparisthebest does it normally have those? :)
  494. ralphm Well, has had them for a long time
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  497. moparisthebest ‎[10:15:55 AM] ‎SleekXMPP got into trouble.
  498. moparisthebest there finally got an error to show up in gajim
  499. moparisthebest that's after I cast my first vote for board
  500. ralphm moparisthebest: the User Mood is 'serious' and the Activity is 'working'
  501. moparisthebest if it resets and responds to me again I can try to capture some XML, but uh, who can check up on it? :/
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  504. ralphm Alex
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  538. jonas’ moparisthebest, you can also vote in the meeting later at 19:00Z
  539. jonas’ so if memberbot hates you for some reason...
  540. Ge0rG I always missed the live meetings.
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  546. jonas’ anyone from jabber.de who sent me a subscritpion request?
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  553. moparisthebest jonas’: Thanksgiving in US today so will be eating then :)
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  555. jonas’ moparisthebest, hah, right
  556. jonas’ moparisthebest, I pinged him out-of-band, maybe that helps.
  557. moparisthebest I emailed my votes to him and he responded so I'm fine
  558. jonas’ ah ok
  559. moparisthebest Memberbot crashing is another story :)
  560. jonas’ woah
  561. Alex has left
  562. jonas’ git merge silently puts a revision block added in one branch of the xeps repo below revision blocks which were added later on
  563. jonas’ that’s... something to be aware of
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  589. ralphm What does that mean?
  590. jonas’ practically, it means that editors must be extremely cautious when merging multiple branches affecting the same XEP
  591. jonas’ example: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/commit/945652bf33b9c98ec7b8670cad7766669a91cebf
  592. jonas’ this should’ve been a conflict, because the original commit (which was being merged here, see <https://github.com/xsf/xeps/commit/cd8d05a6605ed742419a036c185ada9d174ba5fe>) added the 1.15.3 block to the top of the list (where other blocks have been added in the meantime)
  593. jonas’ I don’t see how this is *not* a conflict
  594. jonas’ but instead, git silently merged that by ordering the "new" revision block below the existing ones
  595. ralphm Well, fuzziness is always tricky. In this case it just looked at the bottom of the patch chunk
  596. ralphm Found a match
  597. jonas’ I don’t think that’s a valid thing to do in the general case
  598. ralphm And cleanly applied
  599. jonas’ ignore the top part entirely
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  603. jonas’ it’s clear what techincally happened, but I don’t think this is correct behaviour
  604. ralphm So I guess there could be a script to test for such inconsistencies
  605. jonas’ yes, I think we might need that
  606. ralphm Which would let you know before the merge
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  625. Alex he guys, I think its member meeting time ;-)
  626. jonas’ is here
  627. guusdk has joined
  628. ralphm waves
  629. Zash \o/
  630. Alex okay, lets kick it off
  631. ralphm bangs the gavel for Alex
  632. Alex (Y)
  633. Alex here is our Agenda for today: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2018-11-22
  634. Alex 1) Call for Quorum
  635. jonas’ wait, top four candidates for board?
  636. jonas’ why not five?
  637. Alex as you can see 35 members vote via proxy, memberbot and email
  638. jonas’ > The top 4 candidates will comprise the Board for 2017-2018. There is a tie for position #5 which will be resolvde after the meeting using random selection as defined n RFC 3797. (also the year number is off; sorry to interrupt you)
  639. labdsf has left
  640. Alex sorry, copy and paste error ;-)
  641. Alex its corrected now
  642. Maranda has joined
  643. Alex don't know the results yet ;-)
  644. Alex 2) Items Subject to a Vote
  645. !xsf_martin has joined
  646. Alex board and council elections, you can see all the applicants here: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2018
  647. Alex 3) Opportunity for XSF members to Vote in the Meeting
  648. Alex anyone here who has not vited yet and wants to do so now?
  649. Alex otherwise I shutdown memberbot
  650. Alex 3
  651. Alex 2
  652. Alex 1
  653. Alex nobody
  654. Alex shutting down the bot and start counting
  655. Zash Begin drumroll!
  656. ralphm Drrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
  657. Guus Rollllll
  658. ralphm rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
  659. ralphm rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
  660. ralphm rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
  661. waqas umm
  662. Guus Now you're just purring...
  663. ralphm It's a roll people.
  664. labdsf has joined
  665. ralphm rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
  666. Ge0rG A people roll?
  667. Ge0rG I'm so excited!
  668. Alex 4) Announcement of Voting Results
  669. Alex when you reload the page you can see the results:
  670. Alex https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2018-11-22#Announcement_of_Voting_Results
  671. ralphm https://upload.ik.nu/upload/sWP4vkMui9-SV4PJ/3dob7HDPRR-q_18Bl63t-g.jpg
  672. lskdjf has joined
  673. jonas’ congrats to the (other) elected folks :)
  674. Zash Grats
  675. Alex Top 5 board: Ralph Meijer Matthew Wild Guus der Kinderen Severino Ferrer de la Peñita Nicolas Vérité
  676. ralphm 🎉
  677. Alex and council is easy this time ;-)
  678. Tobias has joined
  679. Alex Dave Cridland Georg Lukas Emmanuel Gil Peyrot Kevin Smith Jonas Schäfer
  680. ralphm 🎉
  681. Ge0rG 😍
  682. jonas’ 🎉
  683. Alex congrats to everyone, and thank for applying
  684. Ge0rG 🥂
  685. Ge0rG Thanks Alex
  686. ralphm Thanks Alex!
  687. jonas’ Alex, thanks for chairing this meeting and doing all the work :-)
  688. Alex you#re welcome
  689. Alex 5) Any other Business?
  690. j.r Georg Lukas is this a bad joke?
  691. jonas’ j.r, no, that’s Ge0rG’s full legal name AFAIK
  692. jonas’ j.r, that’s Ge0rG’s full legal name AFAIK
  693. jonas’ (that doesn’t preclude that it’s a bad joke made by his parents though)
  694. Ge0rG My legal name is a bad joke. Yay.
  695. Ge0rG jonas’: the opinions vary on that.
  696. jonas’ I like it :)
  697. ralphm Alex: I think we're good.
  698. Alex 6) Formal Adjournment
  699. j.r Ge0rG: Not so bad at all
  700. Alex I motion that we adjourn
  701. jonas’ fine with me, Alex
  702. ralphm bangs gavel
  703. Alex thanks (Y)
  704. Guus Thanks Alex!
  705. jonas’ \o/
  706. Ge0rG How many members do we have, by the way? Isn't membership election due soon?
  707. Zash Thanks Alex
  708. jonas’ Ge0rG, 49
  709. jonas’ > The XSF has 49 elected members as of this date.
  710. jonas’ (quoting the minutes)
  711. jonas’ Ge0rG, and, yes: The XSF has 49 elected members as of this date.
  712. jonas’ Ge0rG, and, yes: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Membership_Applications_Q4_2018
  713. Ge0rG So 71% participation in the vote, that's great.
  714. Alex December 2nd
  715. Alex will send out some reminders soon
  716. Ge0rG Somehow I anticipated us being larger
  717. jonas’ somehow I anticipated the participation to be worse
  718. ralphm FWIW: I was actually sitting behind my drums (picture) and have a gavel and gong.
  719. Alex looked at the records today, many members did not reapply in the last 12 month
  720. jonas’ ralphm, next time I expect a livestream.
  721. ralphm https://upload.ik.nu/upload/893VhXpFBrmNbaaf/GrnORgQQT8egDKItfT2V1w.jpg
  722. jonas’ :)
  723. Zash Nice
  724. Ge0rG ralphm: so you are making a *badumtss* on every bad joke?
  725. ralphm Yes
  726. Ge0rG Like when somebody mentions my full name? 😢
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  735. ralphm Nah
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  787. daniel I’m starting the thing that an xml notation for message styling / markup wouldn’t be the worst idea. but i don’t want the full feature set of xhtml-im. It can borrow html5 vocabulary but i want the feature set to be limited to something that message styling and message markup offer. so probably something like <strong>, <em>, <pre>
  788. daniel *think
  789. jonas’ this is going to re-invent the XHTML-IM wheel.
  790. daniel maybe. but if it is limited to 5 elements w/o any attributes people might not attempt to reuse browser renderers
  791. jonas’ people will always attempt stupid things
  792. daniel xhml is just soo complicated. i don’t think anyone but Link Mauve ever wrote a renderer for it
  793. daniel and that one probably isn’t even complete
  794. jonas’ how about re-defining the XHTML subset used by XHTML-IM?
  795. Zash Didn't it have profiles already?
  796. jonas’ it used XHTML profiles I think
  797. daniel i mean it has freaking css in it
  798. Link Mauve daniel, uh, a lot of people have.
  799. Link Mauve There are in all of the 2000s clients.
  800. jonas’ libpurple probably has one with an RCE even.
  801. Link Mauve And the CSS parts it has are very small, nothing like CSS level 2.
  802. daniel putting css in there breaks with the whole let's use xml idea
  803. jonas’ ah, yes
  804. Link Mauve It’s also optional.
  805. daniel it doesn’t make sense to use css
  806. Zash strip the CSS then
  807. jonas’ that’s a good point
  808. jonas’ more like 90ies HTML with stuff like <font color="xyz"/>
  809. Zash The mod_xhtml I made for Prosody can do that
  810. Zash jonas’: Like how SVG works now? :)
  811. Link Mauve “23:02:20 jonas’> it used XHTML profiles I think”, no, it defines profiles of XHTML, which is very different.
  812. jonas’ Link Mauve, ah right
  813. daniel also if it is called xhtml-*IM* why does it have shit like headline
  814. jonas’ Zash, pretty much
  815. daniel i understand the use for blogs and stuff
  816. daniel but IM?
  817. jonas’ daniel, rich text bots
  818. Zash daniel: Throw it out!
  819. daniel who’s going to put headlines in messages
  820. Zash µblogging
  821. jonas’ daniel, one of the reasons the company I work for swtiched away from XMPP was that they wanted fancy alert messages
  822. Zash daniel: People write forum posts in messages sometimes
  823. jonas’ ... but clients lacked proper support for that
  824. jonas’ or maybe I should’ve tried more
  825. Link Mauve daniel, again, nothing forces you to implement the entire list of profiles defined in XHTML-IM.
  826. jonas’ whatever
  827. Link Mauve Nothing will break if you don’t render a <h1/> a bit bigger than normal text.
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  829. ralphm I think the biggest concern with XHTML-IM is that people just throw it at their favorite HTML renderer, opening up all kinds of security issues. No matter what subset.
  830. Zash jonas’: I'm not sure fancy notifications should require all of XHTML. Eg Slack doesn't do that .. does it?
  831. Zash Fancier than plain text messages, sure
  832. Link Mauve ralphm, people will do that, no matter what the input format.
  833. Link Mauve I’ve seen more RCE using User Nickname in the wild.
  834. Link Mauve Simply because “it’s a nickname, so plain text, what could possibly happen if I use innerHTML?”
  835. jonas’ Zash, I’ve seen headings and other markdown-like formatting
  836. jonas’ ralphm, we had that discussion for a month or so a year back
  837. ralphm As for what Slack does, I think that's mostly XEP-393.
  838. ralphm I know this
  839. ralphm I didn't restart it today
  840. Zash jonas’: `<subject>` :)
  841. jonas’ Zash, subheadings
  842. Zash jonas’: nyeh
  843. Link Mauve Headings used to make more sense with the email-like UI of normal messages in the likes of Psi and Gajim.
  844. daniel well i like 0393 as an input format and i think it is enough for a feature set
  845. Link Mauve Where you may have wanted full formatting.
  846. jonas’ daniel, I agree with you for non-automated beings :)
  847. jonas’ daniel, I agree with you for non-automated beings in the IM use-case :)
  848. Link Mauve daniel, yup, no issue with that.
  849. ralphm daniel: indeed
  850. daniel but I think it might make sense to transmit the feature set of 393 as xml
  851. ralphm Why?
  852. Link Mauve ralphm, interoperability with other input markups.
  853. jonas’ daniel, tbh, I’d prefer if we could re-vive XHTML-IM instead of inventing our own vocabulary.
  854. daniel ralphm, by transfering the input format you can never really remove the formatting because the client doesn’t know if it is formatting
  855. jonas’ (and define a subset which is equivalent to 393)
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  858. daniel parsing the input format to xml and using that could solve that
  859. jonas’ also, this is what I told you folks a year ago already >.>
  860. jonas’ if we’re going to define our own vocabulary, people will still come up with unsafe hacks to put it into an XHTML renderer directly
  861. daniel jonas’, well the vocabulary i suggested was html5 which for those cases should be the same as xhtml
  862. jonas’ indeed
  863. Zash The un-safety was always in having a renderer that also executes arbitrary code, not the wire format.
  864. daniel well i can get on board with an xhtml-im-light that is limited to what 0393 can input
  865. ralphm So what Slack *actually* does, I think, is parsing the plaintext server side as per 393, and then send a marked up message back, including references.
  866. Link Mauve daniel, XHTML-IM is already that, tbh.
  867. daniel if you want to do that in the same xep or not i don’t care
  868. Link Mauve Except it doesn’t have disco#info features telling others what you actually do support.
  869. ralphm That's why Flow came up with https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/bmh.html, no?
  870. Link Mauve https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0071.html#profile-summary the current recommended set is a bit bigger than what you suggest, but I don’t see much to remove from it.
  871. jonas’ Link Mauve, for starters, @style should go out of the window.
  872. Link Mauve It mostly just adds lists, images, links and CSS.
  873. Link Mauve Oh, and quotes.
  874. jonas’ (393 has quotes)
  875. jonas’ that profile lacks code though
  876. Link Mauve Indeed, that would be an useful addition.
  877. Link Mauve Indeed, that would be a useful addition.
  878. jonas’ now, if we had namespaced attributes...
  879. Link Mauve There is one, just in this list. :p
  880. jonas’ (thinking of stuff like <code xhtml-im:language="c"/>)
  881. jonas’ yeah, xml:lang doesn’t count
  882. Link Mauve I’ve used a @class hack for that in the past.
  883. ralphm I'd like bold, italic, strike, literal inline, literal block, bullet list and quotes.
  884. Link Mauve Strike requires CSS if we keep it to XHTML-IM.
  885. Zash ralphm: "literal inline" ?
  886. ralphm No color, I think, no font choices, so I guess no css.
  887. ralphm Yes, like `this`.
  888. Zash ralphm: So <code>-ish?
  889. jonas’ Link Mauve, <del/>?
  890. Link Mauve Isn’t that <code/>?
  891. ralphm Versus: ``` Block of literal. ```.
  892. Link Mauve jonas’, oh, indeed.
  893. Link Mauve ralphm, <pre><code/></pre>.
  894. jonas’ Link Mauve, although I’m not 100% convinced that <del/> has the right s emantics
  895. Alex we need a markdown extension ;-)
  896. Link Mauve “The HTML <del> element represents a range of text that has been deleted from a document. This can be used when rendering "track changes" or source code diff information, for example.”
  897. ralphm Yeah, one block, one inline. That's the HTML terminology.
  898. Zash Alex: Bother your client about markdown to xhtml-im support? :)
  899. Link Mauve Alex, no, we need to allow clients to use Markdown as an input format, and transmit it in some standard way (*hint* XHTML-IM) over the wire.
  900. Zash <code xml:lang="c">int main (void) { }</code> mouhahhaaha
  901. jonas’ Zash, that hurt me a little.
  902. ralphm Markdown is like RSS. There are many dialects and bad interop.
  903. Link Mauve That’s something which can’t be done using XEP-0393 due to incompatibilities in the markup used.
  904. ralphm That's why Slack says they don't support it.
  905. Link Mauve ralphm, hence why clients should be able to pick the one they like, and convert it to XHTML-IM.
  906. Alex what I do not like in HTML-IM is that you need to validate for allowed tags and scripts
  907. jonas’ fun fact: with namespaced attributes we could get references right
  908. Zash jonas’: We need to get computer languages their own language tags!
  909. Alex otherwise clients are volnerable
  910. ralphm Alex: you need to validate any format
  911. Link Mauve Alex, no, you need to pick a subset and convert it to whichever rendering library you’re using.
  912. Zash Alex: And you are aware that Markdown allows HTML pass-through?
  913. Link Mauve That’s very different from validation.
  914. jonas’ Alex, not really. only if you pass the XHTML-IM 1:1 to the (code executing) renderer. If you did what you would do for any other format (parse and re-emit as HTML), it would be fine.
  915. ralphm Zash: and that
  916. Link Mauve jonas’, let’s just use namespaced attributes, and see what breaks!
  917. Link Mauve I’d bet on not much, if anything.
  918. Zash The real problem is the distinct lackof a renderer without mandatory JS support and remote content fetching
  919. jonas’ (thinking of <body xmlns="xhtml" xmlns:xhtml-im="..."><span xhtml-im:id="abc">@Link Mauve</span></body><references><ref id="abc"><jid>linkmauve@...</jid></ref></references>)
  920. jonas’ although that could probably also be solved with some href actually
  921. jonas’ but you get the idea
  922. jonas’ (same for blockquotes for example)
  923. Link Mauve jonas’, looks very nice, but @id already exists in XHTML, we could just add it to the profile.
  924. jonas’ Link Mauve, @id is even in XML and has some semantics I’m afraid
  925. Link Mauve @xml:id is different from @xhtml:id in semantics.
  926. Link Mauve Here, you create a new XHTML document in each message (possibly more than one even, with @xml:lang).
  927. jonas’ right
  928. jonas’ that could actually work
  929. Link Mauve So you could perfectly use @xhtml:id.
  930. jonas’ and the @xhtml:id needs to be unique anyways for references to work... or does it?
  931. Link Mauve Let’s keep it simple. :)
  932. jonas’ ok :)
  933. Alex which client are you working on?
  934. Link Mauve Personally, at the moment mostly Converse (when I’ll stop being ill), but I don’t have a fixed client to work on, I just do what I feel is useful.
  935. Zash I should submit the XEP for the thing I did with JabberCat at some point
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  938. jonas’ alright, heading to bed, tele-type to you later ;-)
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  942. Link Mauve Zash, what did you do?
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  944. Zash Link Mauve: BUTTON!
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  946. Link Mauve !
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