XSF Discussion - 2018-12-21


  1. marc has left
  2. marc has joined
  3. efrit has left
  4. lskdjf has joined
  5. neshtaxmpp has left
  6. neshtaxmpp has left
  7. marc has left
  8. marc has joined
  9. lskdjf has left
  10. lskdjf has left
  11. lorddavidiii has left
  12. lskdjf has left
  13. thorsten has left
  14. thorsten has joined
  15. jjrh has left
  16. lskdjf has joined
  17. 404.city has joined
  18. UsL has joined
  19. 404.city has left
  20. oli has joined
  21. jjrh has left
  22. frainz has left
  23. neshtaxmpp has joined
  24. matlag has left
  25. lovetox has left
  26. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  27. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  28. neshtaxmpp has left
  29. neshtaxmpp has left
  30. oli has left
  31. oli has joined
  32. oli has left
  33. oli has joined
  34. frainz has left
  35. Marc Laporte has joined
  36. Marc Laporte has left
  37. neshtaxmpp has joined
  38. frainz has left
  39. frainz has joined
  40. oli has left
  41. oli has joined
  42. l has left
  43. frainz has left
  44. frainz has joined
  45. mimi89999 has joined
  46. neshtaxmpp has left
  47. neshtaxmpp has left
  48. vaulor has left
  49. Marc Laporte has joined
  50. l has joined
  51. lskdjf has joined
  52. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  53. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  54. frainz has left
  55. frainz has joined
  56. neshtaxmpp has joined
  57. dos has left
  58. pep. has left
  59. neshtaxmpp has left
  60. neshtaxmpp has left
  61. frainz has left
  62. frainz has joined
  63. Marc Laporte has left
  64. Nekit has joined
  65. neshtaxmpp has joined
  66. oli has joined
  67. igoose has joined
  68. igoose has joined
  69. Yagiza has joined
  70. marc has left
  71. thorsten has left
  72. marc has joined
  73. marc has left
  74. marc has joined
  75. marc has left
  76. marc has joined
  77. marc has left
  78. marc has joined
  79. Nekit has left
  80. Nekit has joined
  81. neshtaxmpp has left
  82. neshtaxmpp has left
  83. krauq has left
  84. krauq has joined
  85. thorsten has joined
  86. marc has left
  87. frainz has left
  88. frainz has joined
  89. marc has joined
  90. alacer has left
  91. lorddavidiii has joined
  92. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  93. blabla has joined
  94. marc has left
  95. Zash has joined
  96. marc has joined
  97. lovetox has joined
  98. sezuan has left
  99. Tobias has joined
  100. lumi has joined
  101. sezuan has left
  102. Nekit has left
  103. Nekit has joined
  104. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  105. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  106. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  107. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  108. sezuan has left
  109. goffi has joined
  110. labdsf has left
  111. 404.city has joined
  112. ralphm has left
  113. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  114. 404.city has left
  115. oli has joined
  116. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  117. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  118. lumi has left
  119. dos has left
  120. dos has left
  121. oli has left
  122. oli has joined
  123. moparisthebest has left
  124. lorddavidiii has left
  125. moparisthebest has joined
  126. blabla has left
  127. blabla has joined
  128. valo has left
  129. valo has joined
  130. oli has left
  131. oli has joined
  132. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  133. lorddavidiii has joined
  134. labdsf has joined
  135. Steve Kille has joined
  136. lorddavidiii has left
  137. Zash has left
  138. rion has left
  139. lumi has joined
  140. blabla has joined
  141. Wiktor has joined
  142. Zash has left
  143. Zash has left
  144. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  145. oli has joined
  146. waqas has left
  147. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  148. Zash has left
  149. oli has joined
  150. Guus has left
  151. frainz has left
  152. frainz has joined
  153. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  154. rion has left
  155. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  156. rion has left
  157. tux has joined
  158. rion has left
  159. oli has joined
  160. rion has left
  161. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  162. frainz has left
  163. ta has joined
  164. marc_ has joined
  165. frainz has joined
  166. rion has left
  167. Guus jonas’, as per MattJ suggestion, I merged both -docker projects of the observatory into the original project. With that, I think we can drop the docker-specific projects, unless you object.
  168. jonas’ wfm
  169. jonas’ you need to take care to setup the docker hub thing though
  170. blabla has joined
  171. Guus ehh... I'll try 🙂
  172. Guus I've also invited xnyphs, btw.
  173. Zash has joined
  174. Maranda has left
  175. Guus maybe create a corresponding xmpp-observatory account on docker hub?
  176. Maranda has joined
  177. ralphm has left
  178. frainz has joined
  179. moparisthebest has joined
  180. oli has joined
  181. MattJ Guus: thanks! How did you deal with the submodules?
  182. frainz has left
  183. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  184. l has joined
  185. frainz has joined
  186. Ge0rG was asked about a windows client that supports XEP-0184 and was once again disappointed about us officially endorsing Pidgin
  187. lnj has joined
  188. vaulor has joined
  189. Guus MattJ what submodules?
  190. Guus (I did not)
  191. Link Mauve Ge0rG, did Gajim not work?
  192. Ge0rG Link Mauve: I don't know
  193. Link Mauve Why did you recommend Pidgin over it then?
  194. Ge0rG Link Mauve: I'm speaking of the listing at https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html which I wanted to be a list of *actively maintained* clients.
  195. Link Mauve And out of all of the actively maintained clients, you picked Pidgin?
  196. Ge0rG but then somebody submitted Pidgin, and because we are neutral, we can not resist its addition, despite everybody on our side knowing how harmful it is.
  197. Ge0rG Link Mauve: no.
  198. Link Mauve Oh, now I understand.
  199. Link Mauve Sorry.
  200. 404.city has joined
  201. l has left
  202. l has joined
  203. Guus has left
  204. MattJ Guus: no worries, I'll figure something out in the Dockerfile I think
  205. Guus @mattj, i just finished setting up docker hub builds for both projects
  206. Guus do you have an account there? I'd like to add you.
  207. MattJ Thanks!
  208. MattJ mwild1
  209. Guus added: https://cloud.docker.com/u/xmppobservatory
  210. MattJ Got it, thanks
  211. Guus I think that's about what I know what/how to do
  212. Guus I didn't remove the old -docker projects yet, but that can be done now, I think.
  213. MattJ Don't yet
  214. Guus maybe I'd be good if you verify first that I didn't make to many obvious mistakes.
  215. valo has joined
  216. MattJ Pretty sure the new stuff will not build correctly yet
  217. MattJ It was using submodules for pulling in some dependencies
  218. Guus unsure if the migration thingy I used merged those
  219. Guus I didn't notice hg submodules (nor did I check for them)
  220. Guus I'm not seeing a .gitmodules, so it probably didn't migrate.
  221. MattJ I don't remember what they all are, but at least one of them we were going to drop, and probably any others should be too
  222. MattJ Some were hg repos, so it would have needed to migrate those
  223. Syndace has joined
  224. Guus has left
  225. Guus Can I leave this in your capable hands?
  226. MattJ Which wouldn't be ideal anyway, since they are separate projects I maintain in hg
  227. MattJ Sure
  228. Guus Thanks. Do we need submodules, or can we use a shared artifact somehow perhaps?
  229. UsL has joined
  230. MattJ If needed I'll just make the dockerfile clone the dependencies itself
  231. Guus for what its worth, that already seems to happen a lot
  232. Guus What's probably not ideal is that the dockerfile clones RUN hg clone https://bitbucket.org/mattj/xmppoke 🙂
  233. Guus What's probably not ideal is that the dockerfile clones https://bitbucket.org/mattj/xmppoke 🙂
  234. Guus (I blindly merged the projects, didn't update any references)
  235. neshtaxmpp has joined
  236. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  237. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  238. neshtaxmpp has left
  239. Alex has joined
  240. Alex has left
  241. 404.city has left
  242. ThibG has left
  243. ThibG has joined
  244. lskdjf has joined
  245. Zash has left
  246. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  247. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  248. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  249. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  250. Ge0rG Is the call for logo design published anywhere? I've had a logo designer asking me about redoing the yaxim logo some months ago, but I like my logo very much so I'd rather ask them to do something for the wider community
  251. Guus jonas’ should we move the xmppoke-queue project too?
  252. Guus Ge0rG I don't believe that there's an explicit call, no.
  253. Guus Ge0rG I suggest you coordinate with nyco, who had a designer of his own in mind.
  254. Ge0rG Will there be one?
  255. Ge0rG What would be the best non-ephemeral venue for that? issue on github/xmpp.org?
  256. Guus Board didn't discuss that, so I guess not? Is there a need for such an explicit call?
  257. marc has left
  258. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  259. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  260. Guus the mailing list, perhaps?
  261. neshtaxmpp has joined
  262. Ge0rG Guus: standards is obviously not the right place, members is for members only; there is no public ML suitable for that.
  263. marc has joined
  264. Guus You are more precise than I am in these things 🙂
  265. igoose has joined
  266. marc_ has left
  267. blabla has joined
  268. 404.city has joined
  269. genofire has left
  270. l has joined
  271. l has joined
  272. lorddavidiii has joined
  273. ralphm I don't think we need to send out such a call just yet
  274. ralphm I'm going to first wait that nyco comes back with
  275. blabla has joined
  276. vanitasvitae has left
  277. lorddavidiii has left
  278. Ge0rG ralphm: alright. I was just assuming that volunteers might have some time between the holidays
  279. ralphm If people want to volunteer, they can, I just didn't think we needed to put out a call for it.
  280. ralphm Also, I don't think we have minutes for this Board meeting yet. Someone volunteering to do those would be awesome.
  281. l has left
  282. blabla has joined
  283. blabla has left
  284. blabla has joined
  285. Alex has joined
  286. marc has left
  287. intosi has joined
  288. APach has left
  289. vanitasvitae has joined
  290. tux has joined
  291. oli has joined
  292. igoose has joined
  293. APach has joined
  294. Holger has left
  295. genofire has left
  296. genofire has joined
  297. vanitasvitae has left
  298. intosi has left
  299. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  300. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  301. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  302. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  303. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  304. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  305. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  306. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  307. marc has joined
  308. lnj has left
  309. goffi has joined
  310. alacer has joined
  311. alacer has left
  312. alacer has joined
  313. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  314. Guus MattJ I ran into those modules you referred to. I worked around them being gone in git by pulling them in through the docker file, as you suggested: https://github.com/xmpp-observatory/xmppoke/pull/1
  315. marc_ has joined
  316. thorsten has left
  317. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  318. Guus when running things locally, I see that xmppoke is invoked when I start a test through the frontend, but it stops immediately.
  319. erkanfiles has joined
  320. erkanfiles Test
  321. Guus a-ok.
  322. erkanfiles ralphm: Still in need for a minutes writer?
  323. Guus erkanfiles yes
  324. Ge0rG erkanfiles: 👍
  325. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  326. alacer has left
  327. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  328. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  329. Tobias has left
  330. Tobias has joined
  331. APach has left
  332. jjrh has left
  333. UsL has joined
  334. lumi has left
  335. jjrh has left
  336. 404.city has left
  337. Zash has left
  338. erkanfiles So I only have to scroll up in this MUC or where to find the content?
  339. jjrh has left
  340. Ge0rG erkanfiles: the official log is at http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2018-12-20#14:28:50 - in case you don't have full history in your client
  341. erkanfiles K
  342. erkanfiles Where may I submit my results?
  343. Ge0rG erkanfiles: they are typically sent to board@xmpp.org and members@xmpp.org (which are probably both members-only) and you can pastebin them in case you want a second opinion.
  344. Tobias has joined
  345. jjrh has left
  346. erkanfiles has joined
  347. erkanfiles has left
  348. erkanfiles has joined
  349. vaulor has left
  350. vaulor has joined
  351. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  352. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  353. Zash has left
  354. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  355. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  356. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  357. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  358. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  359. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  360. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  361. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  362. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  363. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  364. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  365. Tobias has joined
  366. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  367. erkanfiles has joined
  368. erkanfiles has joined
  369. Steve Kille has left
  370. erkanfiles So I couldnt join because of not being member, right?
  371. Steve Kille has left
  372. daniel has joined
  373. nyco has left
  374. daniel stupid question. someone recenctly send me this <message><foo:bar>hi</foo:bar></message/>. is this valid xmpp/xml?
  375. Link Mauve daniel, if an xmlns:foo="something" has been defined on foo:bar or any of its ancestors..
  376. Link Mauve daniel, if an xmlns:foo="something" has been defined on foo:bar or any of its ancestors.
  377. daniel what if it is not?
  378. Link Mauve Then it’s invalid XML.
  379. daniel because : is a reserved char that can not be used for element names even though xmpp doesn’t use that kind of namespace prefixes?
  380. jjrh has left
  381. Link Mauve : in an element name means that what is before : is a prefix, that must have been bound to a namespace, and what is after is a local name to this namespace.
  382. jonas’ Link Mauve, only if you’re talikng XML 1.0 + Namespaces
  383. jonas’ in vanilla XML 1.0, you can use : without namespaces
  384. Link Mauve jonas’, isn’t that what XMPP is using?
  385. Link Mauve jonas’, uh, really? :|
  386. Link Mauve I wasn’t aware that XML could be used without support for namespaces.
  387. jonas’ yes, XMPP uses XML 1.0 + namespaces
  388. jonas’ it can
  389. jonas’ but everybody luckily forgot about that
  390. daniel jonas’, so is this or is this not legal in xmpp?
  391. Link Mauve Note: The Namespaces in XML Recommendation [XML Names] assigns a meaning to names containing colon characters. Therefore, authors should not use the colon in XML names except for namespace purposes, but XML processors must accept the colon as a name character.
  392. jonas’ it is not legal if there isn’t a namespace declaration on the <message/>
  393. jonas’ daniel, it is not legal if there isn’t a namespace declaration on the <message/> for the foo prefix
  394. Link Mauve jonas’, or on the stream:stream, or on foo:bar.
  395. jonas’ Link Mauve, not on the stream:stream
  396. Link Mauve Why?
  397. jonas’ XMPP
  398. jonas’ Namespaces declared in a stream header MUST apply only to that stream (e.g., the 'jabber:server:dialback' namespace used in Server Dialback [XEP-0220]). In particular, because XML stanzas intended for routing or delivery over streams with other entities will lose the namespace context declared in the header of the stream in which those stanzas originated, namespaces for extended content within such stanzas MUST NOT be declared in that stream header (see also Section 8.4).
  399. jonas’ https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6120#section-4.8.5
  400. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  401. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  402. Steve Kille has joined
  403. jonas’ but yes, it can be on the foo:bar itself, I missed that
  404. Link Mauve jonas’, ugh, that sucks.
  405. jonas’ I was very sad when I learnt that because I intended to declare all the things on the stream header :)
  406. Link Mauve I didn’t know that.
  407. rion has left
  408. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  409. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  410. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  411. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  412. daniel mhhh ok
  413. jonas’ daniel, in any case, your server sent you somewhat malformed XML
  414. Link Mauve jonas’, can you disable namespace support in most XML libraries?
  415. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  416. jonas’ Link Mauve, most come with it disabled
  417. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  418. daniel i mean you are all confirming what i assumed was the case. but in any case it makes this https://github.com/siacs/Conversations/issues/3315 weird
  419. jonas’ expat and libxml at least
  420. jonas’ you have to enable it
  421. daniel and/or very annoying to debug
  422. Link Mauve jonas’, oO
  423. Link Mauve TIL.
  424. pep. > Ge0rG> Guus: standards is obviously not the right place, members is for members only; there is no public ML suitable for that. I would also like to have such a place tbh. I've been wanting it for some time.
  425. jonas’ Link Mauve, in expat you have to set a flag IIRC
  426. Link Mauve I don’t remember having to do that from Python, but maybe.
  427. jonas’ daniel, ejabberd bug
  428. jonas’ Link Mauve, the high-level python stuff does it for you
  429. daniel jonas’, a known one?
  430. jonas’ the xml.sax doesn’t
  431. jonas’ daniel, not that I know, but I’m not surprised
  432. APach has joined
  433. daniel i'd be rather surprised tbh
  434. jonas’ daniel, not as far as I know, but I’m not surprised
  435. jonas’ I’m not
  436. jonas’ the namespace support has been sketchy since ever
  437. jonas’ in ejabberd
  438. Link Mauve daniel, “<{null}jabber:x:oob>” sounds like their serialiser did something clearly wrong.
  439. Link Mauve I remember a similar bug being present in Prosody 0.5.1, fixed in 0.5.2.
  440. daniel oh you mean that new compress thing?
  441. Link Mauve (What a blast from the past!)
  442. jonas’ Link Mauve, not clearly, I wouldn’t dare to interpret the output of that XML parser logs
  443. jonas’ it might be some clark notation gone wro... no wait
  444. jonas’ that’s weird
  445. jonas’ but s till
  446. jonas’ without seeing the raw bytes, I wouldn’t blame the serialiser that much for now
  447. Holger jonas': Namespace handling has been rewritten a while ago, but of course there may still be (new) bugs.
  448. daniel yeah it's not easy to get raw bytes from my parser
  449. daniel sigh
  450. jonas’ *although* the error message indeed sounds like a huge messup
  451. Link Mauve Maybe on the other end, it’s easier to get Ejabberd to dump what it’s going to send?
  452. jonas’ it looks as if <jabber:x:oob/> was generated
  453. Link Mauve Yeah.
  454. daniel yeah that's why i was asking for <foo:bar/> initially
  455. jonas’ which is wrong, and that ejabberd lets it through to you is also a bug
  456. daniel i don’t think that the {null} is on the wire
  457. jonas’ Holger, mhm
  458. jonas’ back then™ when I broke ejabberd’s namespace stuff it was still on that other bugtracker
  459. Holger Heh, there's probably no line remaining of the code you broke :-)
  460. jonas’ that’s probably good
  461. jonas’ I recall the breakage to be terrifying
  462. jonas’ ah yes, it swallowed IQs https://support.process-one.net/browse/EJAB-1661
  463. jonas’ good ol’ times
  464. jonas’ this one was also fun: https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/issues/814#issuecomment-153015288
  465. Link Mauve jonas’, that last one is valid though.
  466. Link Mauve It should be parsed to the exact same thing by a namespace-aware parser.
  467. jonas’ I am aware
  468. jonas’ otherwise I wouldn’t have complained :)
  469. pep. Are you a parser?
  470. jonas’ Are you?
  471. pep. I might be, but I'm not fully namespace-aware
  472. 404.city has joined
  473. moparisthebest has joined
  474. frainz has left
  475. valo has left
  476. valo has joined
  477. Holger jonas’: Hah, so it was your issue that triggered the initial rewrite I was referring to.
  478. jonas’ the IQ one I didn’t open
  479. jonas’ I just came across it
  480. Holger I meant the second one.
  481. lnj has joined
  482. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  483. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  484. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  485. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  486. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  487. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  488. Zash has left
  489. lskdjf has left
  490. lskdjf has joined
  491. lumi has joined
  492. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  493. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  494. blabla has joined
  495. l has joined
  496. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  497. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  498. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  499. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  500. blabla has joined
  501. Zash has left
  502. goffi has joined
  503. blabla has joined
  504. Holger has left
  505. Holger has left
  506. daniel has joined
  507. Yagiza has left
  508. frainz has left
  509. Ge0rG has left
  510. waqas has joined
  511. intosi has joined
  512. daniel has left
  513. frainz has left
  514. frainz has joined
  515. marc has left
  516. moparisthebest has left
  517. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  518. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  519. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  520. moparisthebest has joined
  521. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  522. Ge0rG the Simple Buttons discussion made me realize that we don't have Data Forms in the suite.
  523. ThibG has joined
  524. ThibG has joined
  525. erkanfiles ralphm: I could provide that current minute on wednesday. Is that in time or is it too late?
  526. intosi has left
  527. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  528. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  529. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  530. genofire has left
  531. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  532. ralphm We meet on Thursdays, so that'd be fine!
  533. ralphm Really happy about someone volunteering
  534. lnj has left
  535. efrit has joined
  536. moparisthebest has joined
  537. genofire has joined
  538. jjrh has left
  539. Guus has left
  540. ralphm has left
  541. krauq has left
  542. blabla has joined
  543. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  544. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  545. labdsf has left
  546. labdsf has joined
  547. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  548. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  549. Zash digs up history of buttons.md
  550. jonas’ Guus, I *think* you said the same thing I said in my email to. Where was I unclear?
  551. labdsf has left
  552. lorddavidiii has joined
  553. jonas’ I tried my best to pick words which don’t make Board seem like the booman here, and which don’t put words in Boards collective unison mouth.
  554. labdsf has joined
  555. jjrh has left
  556. Guus jonas’: I think you left one part of the reasoning out. Anyway, I wanted to stress that I don't believe you were trying to push people.
  557. jonas’ ok
  558. jonas’ I can live with that :)
  559. jonas’ right, I only brought the second part up in a side note ("[…] and to the community for the extra noise and possible temporary confusion and misguidance due to the published compliance suites you had to endure.")
  560. jjrh has left
  561. labdsf has left
  562. Guus Ah right. I read that slightly differently. Oh well.
  563. jonas’ overcommunicating is never bad
  564. Yagiza has joined
  565. mightyBroccoli has left
  566. mightyBroccoli has joined
  567. jjrh has left
  568. Nekit has joined
  569. Guus jonas’: I think I prepared for all changes needed to move over to the new observatory repo
  570. jonas’ uh
  571. jonas’ I’d like to postpone this until after the holidays to be honest
  572. jonas’ we’re going to be on the rails tomorrow and there’s some preparations to be made
  573. Zash HOLIDAY SPRINT
  574. Guus Care to review the PRs?
  575. Guus Ah ok, fair enough 🙂
  576. jonas’ aand it will hvae scrolled out of my inbox by that time, so pinging me about that in a week or so would be wise
  577. Guus 👍
  578. dos has left
  579. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  580. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  581. jjrh has left
  582. 404.city has left
  583. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  584. jjrh has left
  585. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  586. jjrh has left
  587. jjrh has left
  588. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  589. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  590. jjrh has left
  591. lskdjf has joined
  592. l has left
  593. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  594. l has left
  595. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  596. pep. has left
  597. labdsf has joined
  598. pep. has left
  599. Guus has left
  600. Guus has joined
  601. 404.city has joined
  602. jjrh has left
  603. erkanfiles has joined
  604. frainz has left
  605. erkanfiles has joined
  606. Alex has left
  607. erkanfiles has joined
  608. erkanfiles has joined
  609. jjrh has left
  610. lskdjf has joined
  611. blabla has joined
  612. blabla has left
  613. blabla has joined
  614. jjrh has left
  615. erkanfiles has joined
  616. erkanfiles has joined
  617. oli has left
  618. oli has joined
  619. erkanfiles has joined
  620. oli has left
  621. oli has joined
  622. erkanfiles has joined
  623. 404.city has left
  624. 404.city has joined
  625. ralphm has left
  626. blabla has joined
  627. labdsf has left
  628. labdsf has joined
  629. ThibG has left
  630. ThibG has joined
  631. lnj has joined
  632. Yagiza has left
  633. lorddavidiii has left
  634. lorddavidiii has joined
  635. blabla has joined
  636. lskdjf has joined
  637. oli has left
  638. oli has joined
  639. oli has left
  640. oli has joined
  641. 404.city has left
  642. mimi89999 has joined
  643. mimi89999 has joined
  644. vaulor has left
  645. vaulor has joined
  646. mimi89999 has joined
  647. jjrh has left
  648. oli has left
  649. oli has joined
  650. oli has left
  651. oli has joined
  652. oli has left
  653. oli has joined
  654. oli has left
  655. oli has joined
  656. labdsf has left
  657. labdsf has joined
  658. thorsten has left
  659. blabla has left
  660. blabla has joined
  661. labdsf has left
  662. labdsf has joined
  663. waqas has left
  664. jjrh has left
  665. lskdjf has left
  666. lskdjf has joined
  667. jjrh has left
  668. lskdjf has left
  669. lskdjf has joined
  670. lskdjf has joined
  671. lskdjf has joined
  672. waqas has joined
  673. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  674. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  675. tux has left
  676. lskdjf has joined
  677. lskdjf has joined
  678. Wiktor has left
  679. lskdjf has left
  680. lskdjf has joined
  681. blabla has joined
  682. lskdjf has joined
  683. lskdjf has joined
  684. mimi89999 has left
  685. labdsf has left
  686. labdsf has joined
  687. efrit has left
  688. intosi has joined
  689. oli has joined
  690. Nekit has joined
  691. blabla has joined
  692. jjrh has left
  693. sezuan has left
  694. intosi has left
  695. frainz has left
  696. frainz has joined
  697. blabla has joined
  698. igoose has left
  699. igoose has joined
  700. erkanfiles has left
  701. Zash has left
  702. erkanfiles has joined
  703. oli has joined
  704. jjrh has left
  705. labdsf has left
  706. labdsf has joined
  707. MattJ Just noticed my emails... so Buttons is accepted?
  708. MattJ or are there still outstanding votes?
  709. waqas has left
  710. Zash U want <button xmlns="urn:xmpp:tmp:buttons"> <onclick> <json xmlns="urn:xmpp:json:0">{"payload":"100MT-nuke","target":"earth"}</json> </onclick> <label xml:lang="en">Big Red Button</label> <label xml:lang="sv">Stor Röd Knapp</label> </button>
  711. Zash ?
  712. goffi has left
  713. MattJ No?
  714. MattJ Are you being sarcastic or why is this so hard? :)
  715. goffi has joined
  716. MattJ The whole point is that the buttons are shortcuts for pieces of text
  717. MattJ Which also makes the points about i18n rather dubious (as I wrote to standards@)
  718. goffi has left
  719. lovetox yeah i agree the i18n argument is a bit overboard, i never saw bodys with different langs
  720. thorsten has left
  721. lovetox lets be honest, almost no one makes use of that lang feature
  722. thorsten has joined
  723. MattJ Right. Last I checked was quite some time ago, and it was not handled very well in clients
  724. MattJ which allows many fun things :)
  725. rion has left
  726. lovetox i get its nice to have it defined with the base xmpp spec, so if there is a usecase someone does not have to invent his own stuff, but not every XEP will be able to fully be i18n compatible, and seeing that one of the most important xeps like dataforms is not useable with i18n, lets me think, can this even be done?
  727. efrit has joined
  728. igoose has left
  729. igoose has joined
  730. Zash Is there a XEP on how to handle i18n?
  731. Link Mauve lovetox, in most cases dataforms are actually usable with i18n, because you transmit the xml:lang in every stanza you send the responder is able to setup the translation domain correctly.
  732. Link Mauve For buttons it can’t be done that way, because the main point of using it is through a MUC.
  733. Link Mauve So there is no sender/responder.
  734. Zash The main point?
  735. Zash You still get presence from everyone, so you can do ... something
  736. Link Mauve Zash, didn’t you define it so it would work in a MUC?
  737. Link Mauve Zash, well, not really, say half of the people here advertise an @xml:lang of en, then some fr, some de, some ru, some sv, etc.
  738. lovetox also a MUC has in most cases one language
  739. lovetox there is no need for translation
  740. Zash Link Mauve: I tried to make it like it works elsewhere in XMPP wrt i18n, which allows multiple <body xml:lang=*> and such.
  741. Link Mauve lovetox, yet in many cases it allows more than one.
  742. Link Mauve Zash, yeah, that’s fine.
  743. marc_ has left
  744. matlag has joined
  745. lovetox also from where should the sender have the translation?
  746. lovetox yeah for Yes and No, its likely he has it
  747. Zash Is that in scope for a protocol?
  748. lovetox but the moment you let the user choose the labels himself, there is no chance he has a translation ready
  749. Zash I imagined this would be from bots mostly
  750. Zash Eg Memberbot
  751. lovetox point is, you can make it super i18n compatible, in reality for the MUC vote case, and thats probably what this is beeing used for, there will be no translations
  752. Zash Allowing for translations doesn't prevent use when there are none
  753. lovetox yeah and Memberbot wants to ask a new question, and then you make a git repo and ask people to translate your memberbot questions into 10 languages or what?
  754. Link Mauve lovetox, yeah, that’s how it’s done in most software.
  755. Link Mauve You have a list of supported languages, translators do the translation work, you often pull them back in your software, and then users can use it in any language they want.
  756. lovetox thats the point, its not part of the software
  757. lovetox the bot allows to ask all possible questions at any point in time
  758. lovetox it would be better to use google translate api
  759. Link Mauve Haha.
  760. Link Mauve That’s just one of your usecases, you don’t need to limit the protocol for other usecases.
  761. genofire has left
  762. lovetox i dont want to limit it, but it should also not stand in the way
  763. Link Mauve Is it currently standing in the way, in the current proposal?
  764. genofire has joined
  765. lovetox i hope not, i didnt follow the discussion until the end :)
  766. lovetox for me this is fine, translate the buttons if you want
  767. neshtaxmpp has left
  768. neshtaxmpp has left
  769. lovetox but translating the value seems wrong
  770. moparisthebest has joined
  771. UsL has left
  772. UsL has joined
  773. lumi has left
  774. erkanfiles has left
  775. thorsten has left
  776. thorsten has joined
  777. oli has joined
  778. MattJ has joined
  779. genofire has left
  780. jjrh has left
  781. jjrh has left
  782. genofire has joined
  783. jjrh has left
  784. jjrh has left
  785. jjrh has left
  786. efrit has left
  787. efrit has joined
  788. 404.city has joined
  789. Neustradamus has left
  790. l has left
  791. vaulor has left
  792. waqas has joined
  793. genofire has left
  794. Holger has left
  795. neshtaxmpp has joined
  796. sezuan has left