Sunday, December 30, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[14:18:12] <pep.> TIL https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0209.html
[14:18:57] <pep.> I knew about the feature but I always thought it was a custom client thing
[14:19:11] <mathieui> didn’t we talk about it at the meetup?
[14:19:15] <jonas’> wait what
[14:19:28] <jonas’> amazing
[14:19:29] <jonas’> same here, pep.
[14:19:42] <jonas’> now let’s move that to multi-item PEP and it’s actually useful.
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[14:20:27] <edhelas> jonas’ <3
[14:20:33] <mathieui> pep., if you feel bored, don’t hesitate to fix https://lab.louiz.org/poezio/poezio/issues/2557
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[14:20:42] <pep.> mathieui, I don't think so. Or I didn't understand it like that. I'm discussing this with sasza just now
[14:21:01] <jonas’> a proper solution for metacontacts of which the information lives server-side is somthing I wanted
[14:21:10] <jonas’> and then I ditched it. and now it doesn’t fit in my roster data model anymore.
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[14:21:39] <jonas’> but given that it can greatly improve UX for those of us with (friends with) multiple accounts ... :)
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[14:30:36] <pep.> There doesn't seem to be much security concerns for this meta-contact thing. owl was wondering if it was possible to use this as a pre-condition (but not requirement) for <moved/>. I also think it would be interesting
[14:31:15] <pep.> At the moment it seems I can just send a meta-contact tag for any other jid as long as I know their identity tag?
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[14:31:57] <jonas’> what?
[14:32:24] <jonas’> send to whom?
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[14:34:57] <pep.> Say I, userA, sends a meta-contact thing to userB, <meta jid='userA@jid1' tag='foo' .. />. Now userB knows my identity tag right, they could use it to send userC <meta jid='userB@jid1' tag='foo' ../> ?
[14:35:20] <pep.> There doesn't seem to be any auth mechanism(?)
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[14:35:26] <pep.> /verification
[14:36:40] <jonas’> XEP-0209 does not specify anything for sending a meta-contact thing to another user.
[14:37:00] <jonas’> so why should there be an auth or verification mechanism?
[14:37:26] <pep.> oh
[14:37:28] <pep.> I see
[14:37:34] <jonas’> did you only look at the examples? ;-P
[14:37:40] <pep.> Yes and I was confused
[14:37:43] <jonas’> heh
[14:37:50] <pep.> Because it's not what I thought it was
[14:38:38] <pep.> With owl we were picturing something else, users would be able to say "This is another account of mine"
[14:41:37] <pep.> That would need another XEP then.. and would probably need to interact with this
[14:42:07] <jonas’> put it in vcard?
[14:42:16] <pep.> hmm?
[14:42:26] <jonas’> I bet you can put a JID in a vcard
[14:42:31] <jonas’> put all your accounts in all your vcards
[14:42:36] <jonas’> also allows cross-validation
[14:42:45] <pep.> Yeah cross-validation should be a thing
[14:44:14] <pep.> The issue owl had was that with <moved/> (and even with what's being discussed, https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Sprints/2018_November_Dusseldorf/Pad grep for moved), it's not possible to say "hey I moved to that other JID" anymore if the first server is down
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[14:45:20] <pep.> Ge0rG, ^
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[15:55:50] <Ge0rG> pep.: yes, also if you actually delete the old account. Moved is full of hairy corner cases of xmpp.
[15:56:41] <Ge0rG> Next time I have a bit of time to tackle it, I'll prepare a proposal for a new Moved, probably based on a mix of messages and pep
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[16:05:28] <edhelas> is stream compression still a thing in XMPP ?
[16:07:11] <Zash> It has dubious security properties. Prosody got rid of it. Dunno about others.
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[16:11:54] <jonas’> FWIW https://github.com/horazont/aioxmpp/issues/249#issuecomment-435442679
[16:12:10] <jonas’> (scroll to the bottom of that comment for a summary)
[16:12:28] <jonas’> TL;DR: if you do it right™, the benefits are rather slim, but it can at least revert the base64 overhead
[16:14:01] <flow> edhelas, I'd say yes, and I believe that the side channels can be closed
[16:14:50] <flow> jonas’, you consider 12% bytes saved in the worst case "rather slim"?
[16:15:15] <flow> Or am I misreading the stats and its 1.2% or something?
[16:15:37] <Zash> Does it consider the extra memory usage on servers?
[16:16:20] <jonas’> yes, 12% is rather slim IMO
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[16:16:50] <jonas’> 12% is low enough that I’d be interested if the additional CPU time involved on the client side isn’t worse than transmitting the extra bytes
[16:16:55] <jonas’> (not to mention the memory overhead)
[16:18:18] <Zash> As a server dev, I'd rather avoid more memory usage
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[16:19:39] <edhelas> I saw some security issues regarding TLS + compression as well
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[16:20:49] <Zash> Yeah, you don't want SASL / password anywhere near compression.
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[17:13:59] <jonas’> "password or password-equivalent" is probably more fitting, given that SCRAM for example is safe-ish even without encryption, IIRC.
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[17:27:41] <Zash> Depends on what you wanna protect or be safe against
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[23:45:43] <vanitasvitae> XML namespaces containing multiple occurences od ':' (eg. "urn:xmpp:bob") are valid, are they?
https://github.com/dino/dino/issues/394#issuecomment-450573159
Maybe someone can shine some light on this issue?
[23:45:57] <vanitasvitae> s/od/of
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[23:56:52] <lovetox> this is indeed wrong vanitasvitae
[23:57:24] <vanitasvitae> So such namespaces are not allowed?
[23:57:27] <lovetox> as you see on the captcha node
[23:57:33] <lovetox> namespace and node name are exchanged
[23:57:45] <lovetox> the thing is the namespace is not as namespace declared
[23:57:56] <lovetox> as you can read <urn:xmpp:captcha xmlns='captcha'>
[23:58:00] <lovetox> but it should be
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[23:58:10] <lovetox> <captcha xmlns='urn:xmpp:captcha'>
[23:59:05] <lovetox> if this comes from an ejabberd, this is a major bug
[23:59:14] <vanitasvitae> ah 😀
[23:59:21] <vanitasvitae> Okay, I understood it wrong then
[23:59:45] <vanitasvitae> I thought "xmlns='urn:xmpp:bob'" would be illegal.
[23:59:49] <lovetox> are you not running a stable version?
[23:59:50] <vanitasvitae> Thanks for clarifying.