XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2019-01-17


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  125. ta Just saying vanitasvitae is right. Language was not the main reason for banning, but you might have noticed that already.
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  237. dwd jonas’, Thought - given Last Call has three outcomes (back to Experimental, Reject, or Draft), should we explicitly ask people in the (now traditional) Last Call questions which should happen?
  238. Ge0rG dwd: that would be great.
  239. pep. I think that's a good idea
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  246. jonas’ dwd, seems smart
  247. jonas’ dwd, PR welcome, the template is in xsf/xeps:tools/send-updates.py
  248. dwd jonas’, https://twitter.com/clonezone/status/162319083860271104
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  251. jonas’ dwd, -EATWORK, otherwise I would have done it myself.
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  267. Guus For the record: my "patches welcome" are most often "I don't have time to work on that now."
  268. edhelas Guus damn, stop saying out loud our dirty little secrets
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  274. pep. Why do you think I open tickets
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  276. Guus edhelas I'm just arguing against the "patches welcome" equals "fuck off" statement. I think that's an unfair one.
  277. Guus (I was also wondering for a moment why Jonas is eating his work).
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  284. ralphm Guus: I use it to mean: "I think that's a great idea, including you putting in some work in to make it happen."
  285. ralphm -in
  286. ralphm I often see people vaguely guesturing in a direction, hoping that someone will pick up the work for them.
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  289. Kev I use it mostly for "I don't care about this issue. If you care enough then put the work in and do it, instead of telling me I should be", I think.
  290. Kev Which might be a rephrasing of Ralph's :)
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  293. Guus Seems fair to say that it means different things to different people.
  294. Guus (also, "having time" is often a matter of prioritization).
  295. ralphm Sure, it is about not making time to do something.
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  299. Ge0rG MattJ: can we get an author column in your XEPs SQL please?
  300. Guus (prettyplease respond with: "patches welcome")
  301. Guus 😇
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  304. ralphm http://www.cutestpage.com/pictures/Pretty_Please_Cat.jpg
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  308. MattJ Ge0rG, what column?
  309. Ge0rG MattJ: I wanted to group by author on https://matthewwild.co.uk/uploads/xepql/
  310. MattJ or was that a joke? I didn't read the backlog :)
  311. MattJ Right, author. I haven't done that yet because I wasn't sure how to represent it - a XEP can have multiple authors
  312. MattJ so either I condense it into a string or make a second table
  313. MattJ s/I/you/
  314. Ge0rG there are also authors who are also XML entities, like &dcridland;
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  316. MattJ Oh, also authors aren't in xeplist.xml
  317. dwd I am not an XML Entity, I am a free man!
  318. dwd MattJ, Second table, BTW. Otherwise you'll need to decide whether XEP-0001 gets sorted as PSA or me, for instance.
  319. MattJ Right
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  322. ralphm I'm surprised that there are authors who aren't entities.
  323. dwd It used to be an automatic thing that you were put as an entity on your first XEP being adopted.
  324. dwd Mostly so that if you changed affiliation/address, it got changed for all your XEPs.
  325. dwd (Reminds me, I should PR my new contact details)
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  327. pep. "dwd> It used to be an automatic thing that you were put as an entity on your first XEP being adopted.", some kind of elevation? :)
  328. dwd pep., Purely a management thing by PSA, I think.
  329. dwd pep., Although I like the idea of PSA, as constitutional monarch, creating someone an XML entity, like being created a peer of the realm.
  330. pep. (I meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_(emotion) :P)
  331. pep. heh
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  340. ralphm dwd: but taking you as an example, XEPS 0399, 0400, and 0402 don't use your XML entity.
  341. ralphm (also several specs in the inbox)
  342. ralphm so at least we're not doing this consistently
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  344. Ge0rG dwd: should the order of authors be represented as well?
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  347. dwd ralphm, That's probably not good.
  348. ralphm surely not good, I'd say
  349. ralphm It would probably be very useful to replace all <author/> blocks with entities.
  350. ralphm And have a pass at each author's details. Many of them have moved companies, etc.
  351. ralphm (cue patches welcome)
  352. jonas’ ralphm, file an issue, it is on my editor todo in my head anyways
  353. ralphm jonas’: I will!
  354. Guus (file a pr while you're at it *badumtissh*
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  361. ralphm Guus: too late, I already suggested that
  362. Guus you only cue'd it. I see us as a well oiled machine: you line 'm up, I finish 'm.
  363. Guus also, let's argue more about this!
  364. Guus shall stop procrastinating now.
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  374. ralphm :-D
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  426. Ge0rG What's the ETA to Board Meeting?
  427. Guus 12 minutes from now.
  428. Ge0rG Thanks.
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  435. Guus which is now.
  436. Half-ShotX has left
  437. Ge0rG Wow.
  438. nyco Boom
  439. Guus ralphm / nyco / MattJ ?
  440. Guus Seve
  441. nyco for whom the gavel bangs
  442. Guus I got scared by that boom 🙂
  443. ralphm here
  444. nyco ah, too loud, sorry
  445. ralphm bangs gavel
  446. ralphm 0. Welcome + Agenda
  447. MattJ Here
  448. ralphm I'm in a video conference, too, but I'll try to manage.
  449. nyco is it an open standards, at least?
  450. Guus good luck 🙂
  451. ralphm nyco: bluejeans :-(
  452. nyco I'm in a Trello board, too, but I'll try to manage 😉 https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  453. ralphm Seve?
  454. ralphm 1. Minutes
  455. Seve Here
  456. ralphm Who can take notes and issue minutes?
  457. ralphm dwd maybe?
  458. Guus phonecall, afk
  459. ralphm This is proving to be a problem. I think we should explicitly ask for volunteers on the members list.
  460. ralphm I'll send an e-mail about this.
  461. MattJ +1
  462. jonas’ I happen to be here for a change, so I can do it
  463. MattJ Sorry, I really can't offer right now
  464. ralphm jonas’: thanks, sir!
  465. Guus (back)
  466. MattJ Thanks jonas’!
  467. ralphm 2. GSoC
  468. ralphm Are there any updates on this?
  469. Guus flow might have more, but
  470. flow Working on the application and preparing a blog post, ETA 1-2days
  471. Guus our application was registered, at least flow and myself are signed up as org admin.
  472. MattJ That's great news
  473. Guus (do we need to keep this in Board's trello?)
  474. ralphm flow: do we have project proposals already?
  475. nyco (no need for me to keep it in Board's board)
  476. flow ralphm, not yet, that is why I am preparing a blog post asking for projects to submit their proposal(s)
  477. flow (sorry, on phone, hence a I'm bit slow to respond)
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  480. ralphm I think it might be good to keep on the agenda to keep track of the process until submission. It might also be good to review the final application before we send it in, as we as an organization will make certain promises about things like replacing mentors if they disappear, and such.
  481. ralphm flow: ok thanks.
  482. ralphm 3. Summit / FOSDEM
  483. ralphm People are signing up for hotels.
  484. ralphm We will issue the form for Dinner soon.
  485. ralphm Make sure to select the Dame Blanche, of course.
  486. Seve smiles
  487. Guus :rolleyes:
  488. nyco (note: I might not be able to join this year, my kid's broken leg...)
  489. Guus nyco 😞
  490. ralphm Guus and I also happened to have a bit of a chat (after talking to Peter, later in this meeting) on what to do with hoodies/t-shirts, etc.
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  492. ralphm Still some more discussion to make a final call on this, but we're thinking of issuing a new batch of hoodies like last time, and possibly Summit-specific t-shirts. Ideas welcome in the summit MUC room.
  493. ralphm nyco: nooooh!
  494. Guus The FOSDEM stand space still concerns me. We have not been allotted a lot of space this year.
  495. pep. :o
  496. ralphm Yes, this will be a challenge, but we'll manage I'm sure. I've requested the organization if it would be possible to have the vending machines removed.
  497. nyco please, no VLC! I love them, they are friends... but... too loud, too much presences, we are hidden...
  498. jonas’ (summit MUC = xmpp:summit@muc.xmpp.org?join I assume?)
  499. ralphm Also for contact details of the people next to us, so we can send them some info on what we plan to do.
  500. ralphm jonas’: yes
  501. Seve True, I completely agree
  502. Guus nyco they'll be at the same spot again
  503. Guus jonas’ yes
  504. jonas’ I lack context
  505. nyco if we have more space towards the stairs, we can occupy less space close to the vending machines, allowing free/open access
  506. jonas’ about the booth VLC thing
  507. ralphm nyco: the stands have already been assigned, and there's nothing we can do to change the current assignments.
  508. ralphm However
  509. Guus jonas’ the VLC crowd is very ... present. 🙂
  510. ralphm We will have a discussion for next year. FOSDEM has some ideas on this that are probably better discussed in person.
  511. nyco so we have to be creative to "exist" and be more visible
  512. jonas’ Guus, I got that much, why does it concern us though?
  513. ralphm nyco: yes
  514. Seve jonas’, they make a great job about engaging with people and we are quite behind them, so it is hard for us to get noticed, but it is more because of where is our place
  515. nyco you say too much or too little 😉
  516. Guus let's move this discussion into the SCAM room though.
  517. jonas’ Seve, that was the missing bit of info, thanks
  518. nyco right, SCAM
  519. ralphm ok, let's move
  520. jonas’ SCAM MUC = ?
  521. Guus scam@muc.xmpp.org
  522. nyco scam@muc.xmpp.org
  523. nyco too fast!
  524. jonas’ found it
  525. ralphm 4. Chat with Peter
  526. jonas’ (should use the muc search next time!)
  527. ralphm The chat with Peter was had!
  528. Guus (and enjoyable)
  529. ralphm We covered three topics
  530. ralphm (yes!)
  531. ralphm First the question on the Executive Director.
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  533. ralphm The idea behind this function is that usually the Board provides direction...
  534. ralphm and the ED makes it happen (with others)
  535. ralphm much like in business corps
  536. nyco "exectutant" it is, then
  537. nyco "executant" it is, then
  538. nyco so, do we need one?
  539. Guus Peter also referred to being the 'face of the organziation' in that role
  540. ralphm Currently, the Board seems to do both. As such it might not make sense to actually have an ED right now.
  541. ralphm Indeed
  542. nyco or a member could be the ED
  543. Guus I concur with ralphm . Peter thought the same: we don't necessarily need someone in that role now.
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  545. ralphm nyco: well, the point is that Board usually appoints an ED
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  547. ralphm whoever that is
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  549. Guus To prevent us from having to make adjustments to the bylaws, I suggest we keep the role, but agree to not currently appoint anyone.
  550. MattJ Can the person be a Board member?
  551. ralphm MattJ: I think so, *but* members have in earlier meetings expressed that this is not desirable
  552. nyco Guus if that's possible, then it's cool
  553. jonas’ ralphm, why?
  554. ralphm If only because they will have a deciding voice.
  555. Guus MattJ I'm not sure if that's relevant, if there's little distinction between a board member and ED.
  556. ralphm (in case of a stalled vote)
  557. jonas’ ah, I see
  558. nyco (guys, I'll have to leave no later than 16:00)
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  560. ralphm And in the absence of a 'face', I think that role falls to the Chair. But I don't think we should make the Chair our ED.
  561. nyco Executive Chair
  562. ralphm So as long as the membership doesn't object, I'd say we leave this position vacant for now.
  563. jonas’ (not to be confused with an execution chair)
  564. ralphm (haha)
  565. jonas’ ralphm, maybe explicitly ask the membership on members@
  566. jonas’ not everyone will read the minutes that closely
  567. Guus jonas 🙂
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  569. ralphm jonas’: well, people should, that's the least they can do as members
  570. nyco vacant ED: +1
  571. jonas’ heh
  572. Guus let's vote on this next week, to give members time to pitch in.
  573. ralphm Ok
  574. ralphm The second topic was sponsorship.
  575. MattJ The ED has roles and responsibilities in the Bylaws, so who do these fall to?
  576. ralphm (and financials in general)
  577. MattJ Ok, we can discuss on list for the sake of time here
  578. nyco the Board ?
  579. ralphm MattJ: the Board
  580. MattJ ralphm, and per your answer to my previous question, what would happen in the case of a stalled vote?
  581. ralphm Our current financials are still pretty decent. However, no money is coming in lately
  582. jonas’ MattJ, ask the membership?
  583. ralphm right
  584. Ge0rG still has a rather complex request on the Board agenda, and it's already over a month old.
  585. ralphm Also our list of sponsors I think would currently only include USSHC
  586. ralphm Ge0rG: dude, wait
  587. Guus "dude, wait longer"
  588. ralphm So we need to clean that up *and* ask previous sponsors if they'd like to sponsor again.
  589. Guus ralphm: I suggest that we don't try to hard with previous sponsers, but define a list of potentials instead.
  590. ralphm We also made a bit of a list of potential new sponsors. Basically entities that use XMPP as part of their business. E.g. certain gaming companies.
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  594. nyco we have to just propose, not be salesy
  595. ralphm So if people reading this (or the minutes) have ideas and contacts, please let me know.
  596. Guus We do need to think about what we can offer
  597. nyco all app makers on the App Stores, who use XMPP in the core of the products
  598. jonas’ .oO(Conversations!)
  599. Guus how we can engage sponsors, but importantly, keep them engaged.
  600. ralphm The third topic was the Jabber Trademark
  601. nyco Guus let's start with what we have always done, and iterate next year thanks to 2019 feedback
  602. APach has left
  603. ralphm This has always been handled by Peter in his capacity as ED.
  604. nyco sorry, I'm out, see you, I'll read
  605. Guus Thanks nyco
  606. nyco thx all
  607. MattJ Thanks nyco
  608. ralphm He's still the most knowledgable and has had contact with Cisco Legal
  609. ralphm But decisions lie with the Board
  610. ralphm Peter has provided feedback on one current application.
  611. ralphm But I've not seen a reply on this from the applicant, yet.
  612. nyco has left
  613. Ge0rG ralphm: there was not much *actionable* advice. It was more opinions in my reading
  614. ralphm I would suggest taking his opinion seriously.
  615. Guus there's two bits of implied advice, which we can turn into direct questions
  616. Guus 1) is the name JabberSPAM appropriate: "The usage guidelines [0] mention that a sublicensed name should not be "derogatory or demeaning to Jabber technology or the Jabber Community" and should not be "misleading or likely to cause confusion". The JabberSPAM name comes close to violating these criteria, in my opinion."
  617. Guus (quoting Peter there)
  618. ralphm And there's also a question in there on who'll be the licensee, so sending in a response would help the Board to see how to continue.
  619. Guus I understand the tongue-in-cheek reference here, but I also understand Peter's point.
  620. jonas’ shall I put this under a fresh agendum, like "5. JabberSPAM trademark application"?
  621. ralphm jonas’: sure
  622. jonas’ because this seems only be partially related to the chat with Peter
  623. Ge0rG Guus: so now I need to either rename my project or press Board into deciding whether it violates the decency criteria?
  624. Guus Ge0rG a third option would perhaps be to find middle ground, and make out the license to the full name (SPAM in your entity's name is an abbrevation, right?)
  625. Ge0rG I'm agreeing with becoming the licensee, as opposed to a non existing legal entity.
  626. ralphm And having to rename your project was always a possible outcome.
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  628. Ge0rG Guus: yes, it stands for "Spam Prevention and Abuse Management".
  629. Ge0rG We already have a SCAM team in the XSF, so it's a bit ironic to not allow that
  630. ralphm SCAM is not in anyway affiliated with the Jabber trademark so that's not relevant.
  631. jonas’ it’s obvious that there are different rules at play for a trademark owned by Cisco and a work team in the XSF...
  632. ralphm right
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  634. Ge0rG I'd really love to hear the official Board opinion on that.
  635. Guus I believe that "Jabber Spam Prevention and Abuse Management" has way less chance to trip the 'derogatory or demeaning' clause than "SPAM"
  636. ralphm The point is that if we don't adhere to the guidelines, Cisco might decide to take matters in their own hands. I don't think that's a desirable outcome.
  637. Guus exaclty that is my concern, ralphm
  638. Guus Ge0rG opinion on what, exactly?
  639. Ge0rG Guus: on whether JabberSPAM is an appropriate name or not
  640. Guus Ge0rG if read out of context, 'derogatory or demeaning' applies to the term "JabberSPAM"
  641. ralphm Ge0rG: I'd suggest you then write a reply to the e-mail Peter sent and then we can pick it up from there. I think it would be good to have a single e-mail with, for example, you explaining what the full name of the project is and answer the question about the licensee.
  642. ralphm We can then pick it up next week.
  643. Ge0rG ralphm: alright, I can do that.
  644. ralphm Ge0rG: cool!
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  646. Ge0rG +1Ws
  647. Guus The second advice of Peter was to approach this as a person, not organization
  648. Guus as that'll most likely prevent a requirement to pay a fee.
  649. ralphm 6. Typos in Deferred
  650. ralphm I think we're still waiting for a PR on this.
  651. Guus who's going to create the PR?
  652. Guus jonas’ ?
  653. Guus (we'll wait for a long time if we're all waiting on eachoter)
  654. jonas’ .
  655. Ge0rG Guus: "most likely" is rather vague as well.
  656. Guus (we'll wait for a long time if we're all waiting on eachother)
  657. ralphm Guus wrote on the card: In today's board meeting, Board agrees wiath Jonas' suggested change, and ask the Editor to draft a proposal for the change in XEP-0001.
  658. ralphm So I guess we're waiting for jonas’
  659. jonas’ I forgot about that, sorry
  660. Guus As did I.
  661. ralphm 7. Last Calls on Experimental XEPS
  662. ralphm I think this coincides with the current discussion on standards@ ?
  663. ralphm MattJ filed this card
  664. jonas’ ralphm, not current
  665. jonas’ it was a few days ago actually
  666. ralphm jonas’: I wrote four e-mails in a thread on Deferred XEPs
  667. jonas’ that’s not the origin though
  668. Guus ralphm, this seems to be different
  669. ralphm I'm preparing a PR on the ability to move Deferred XEPs to Proposed.
  670. jonas’ that’s not the issue
  671. ralphm Ok
  672. ralphm But it is connected
  673. jonas’ the question from Matt was that there is no clear instruction for an Author how to get their XEP into LC
  674. MattJ The card description should be self-explanatory, but it boils down to "The expected process for a XEP to move from Experimental to Proposed is not explicitly documented"
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  676. jonas’ from Experimental
  677. ralphm In the sense that we don't have a way currently to mark XEPs as undeferred after 12 months without a change.
  678. jonas’ we do, the Editor can just do that
  679. jonas’ but that’s not the problem
  680. ralphm The expected process for moving from Experimental to Proposed has two whole sections in XEP-0001
  681. jonas’ ralphm, I think that might be the issue ;-)
  682. MattJ It doesn't say how the process is initiated
  683. Guus is this about the council not always acting fast enough for the 12-month limit to expire on XEPs that are perfectly fine to go through?
  684. jonas’ Guus, no, this is about an author who has no idea how to get their XEP into LC
  685. MattJ It's about the two lengthy paragraphs not actually saying how the process gets triggered
  686. Guus So, how _is_ the process triggered?
  687. MattJ It mostly isn't :)
  688. Guus (and can we copy/paste that answer into 0001?)
  689. jonas’ Guus, currently it is "figure out that you need ask council, ask council"
  690. MattJ which I believe is one (not the only) reason we have many XEPs deferred that shouldn't really be
  691. jonas’ (or council figures it out by itself, but that’s rather rare I guess)
  692. ralphm Hah
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  694. ralphm Ok, I can include this in my PR
  695. jonas’ <3
  696. MattJ ralphm, that would be great!
  697. ralphm But it would be indeed: Ask Council
  698. Guus Thank you 🙂
  699. MattJ I think we're all agreed on that
  700. ralphm good
  701. Guus 8 minutes until I need to go.
  702. ralphm 8. Ask for Editors
  703. ralphm Please, more of them.
  704. ralphm jonas’: if you want to send out an e-mail to members@, please do.
  705. jonas’ ok
  706. ralphm 9. AOB
  707. Guus I was going to ask if nyco has had feedback from the designer friend he had, regarding compliance suite badges.
  708. Guus if you read this in the minutes, nyco... 🙂
  709. ralphm Ok
  710. ralphm With that
  711. ralphm 10. Date of Next
  712. ralphm +1W
  713. ralphm Hopefully only 30 min
  714. ralphm 11. Close
  715. ralphm Thanks all!
  716. ralphm bangs gavel
  717. Seve Thank you very much guys!
  718. Guus Thanks!
  719. jonas’ minutes will follow in a minute
  720. MattJ Thanks :)
  721. Guus Ge0rG I'm aware that I'm not speaking in absolutes, but that's because I'm not familiar enough with the matter to be that absolute. If you can agree / see reason in the advice / suggestions that were given, I'm hoping that you can consider modifying the application, so that we limit the chance that things get delayed further, or worse, rejected.
  722. jonas’ FWIW, I prefer it if board plays it safe
  723. jonas’ in my own interest as sublicense holder ;-)
  724. Guus And on the SCAM name - even while it's not related to the trademark, I wouldn't have picked that name if I had known about the trademark-related limitation.
  725. Guus (if I indeed was the one that picked it - probably, but don't remember)
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  728. Guus If you prefer to continue with "JabberSPAM", I do suggest to file under the full name: "Jabber Spam Prevention and Abuse Management" instead. With what I know today, that'd be acceptable to me.
  729. Guus If a trademark professional at Cisco sees that we've sublicenced to 'JabberSPAM', then I think there's a real risk in them revoking our permit to issue licences. If that name comes to a vote, that's likely the reason why I'd be -1.
  730. Ge0rG Guus: yeah, I can fully understand that
  731. Guus I'm trying to think with you here, not make your life difficult
  732. Guus (as so far the quality of your life is influenced by a trademark issue 😉 )
  733. Ge0rG Guus: but if I apply for "Jabber Spam Protection and Abuse Management" and then abbreviate it as "JabberSPAM" in URLs, is that still covered? Probably not?
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  735. Ge0rG Guus: I'll raise that question in my email, so no need to answer it immediately
  736. Guus Ask Peter to be sure, but I think it is - and/or falls under the fair use policy.
  737. jonas’ if all else fails, we can still go back to xmppbl.org
  738. Ge0rG jonas’: that reads like the sound I'd emit after eating too much SPAM. Way too much spam.
  739. Guus if you do it that way, then you're putting "jabberSPAM" in context of "protection and abuse management"
  740. jonas’ "xmppblorg" :D
  741. Zash :D
  742. Guus as a side note: I'd be happy for people that search for 'spam' to end up at a prevention site, instead of something that'll actually help them generate spam.
  743. Ge0rG Guus: but my vagueness remark was about the person vs. org licensee statement.
  744. Ge0rG yeah, if you search github for "jabber spam" you'll end up a at spam bot implementation.
  745. Guus Ge0rG ask Peter
  746. Ge0rG Guus: will do
  747. Guus ok, I need to be off
  748. Guus or at least, do other stuff
  749. Guus I'm doing my best to help you move along here, even though it doesn't always look like it. 🙂
  750. Ge0rG Guus: thanks very much!
  751. Guus yw
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  786. jonas’ somebody wants to review if my implementation of Section 8.1 of the XSF Bylaws is correct? https://github.com/horazont/councilbot/blob/feature/remodel/councilbot/state.py#L253
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  794. jonas’ I am particularly curious about the "majority of members voting" rule
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  917. Guus in context of XEP-0359, does an outbound MUC message have a different stanza ID for each outbound copy? What if the original message had a origin ID?
  918. jonas’ Guus, re stanza-id: it should not, because the stanza-id is the ID in the archive
  919. Guus right, and there's just one archive for the MUC - not a per-participant archive... (how does that work with PMs?)
  920. jonas’ the PMs are in the user’s account archive
  921. jonas’ the MUC archive is only type="groupchat"
  922. Ge0rG If at all...
  923. jonas’ PMs are treated like normal chat, except that it’s weird
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  925. Guus so... before processing inbound stanzas in a MUC service, slap on the stanza-id element, and be done?
  926. Zash I think we've ignored interactionts between MAM and MUC PMs so far
  927. jonas’ Zash, Ge0rG surely hasn’t
  928. jonas’ Guus, kind of like that
  929. Ge0rG jonas’: I have, because Burn MAM!
  930. Ge0rG Also you can't attribute PMs from MAM because the MUC might have been semi-anon.
  931. Guus Ge0rG I like your way of thinking.
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  934. Ge0rG > In the case of non-anonymous rooms or if the recipient of the MUC archive has the right to access the sender real JID at the time of the query, the archive message will use extended message information in an <x/> element qualified by the 'http://jabber.org/protocol/muc#user' namespace and containing an <item/> child with a 'jid' attribute specifying the occupant's full JID, Will this element be present in PMs?
  935. jonas’ Ge0rG, given that PMs didn’t even have <x/> until very recently, I doubt it.
  936. jonas’ (and the account MAM can only archive what the account sees)
  937. Ge0rG > The archiving entity MUST strip any pre-existing <x> element from MUC messages (as MUC rooms are not required to do this). This is going to break PM archival on the user account, right?
  938. Ge0rG Somebody please invoke standards@
  939. Ge0rG &
  940. jonas’ I won’t go near that
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