XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2019-02-27


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  258. jubalh hi
  259. jubalh another question about OMEMO :) If I understand the XEP right one should encrypt the key and the GCM tag. Looking at dinos implementation it only seems to encrypt the key not the tag. Whats right?
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  267. Syndace Interesting catch, I'm curious how dino is even able to talk to the other clients then
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  269. Syndace Pretty sure encrypting the tag is the right way and all other clients do so as well
  270. flow jubalh, do you have a link/pointer to the relevant part of dino's implementation?
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  275. jubalh Well, I'm not totally sure about it, but I think its this: https://github.com/dino/dino/blob/6de86c2733a26eb5034087ab25205ba1cba1e279/plugins/omemo/src/trust_manager.vala#L73
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  284. jubalh Syndace, flow ^
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  298. Syndace jubalh: Are you talking about "add_encryption_tag_to_message"?
  299. Syndace In line 153?
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  315. flow which appears to be just the EME extension element (/tag)
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  327. jubalh ahh so it does get encrypted?
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  330. jubalh too many xeps to read :)
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  334. jubalh Syndace, but thats not the gcm tag right?
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  339. flow Syndace, no, it is a tag in the sense of XML
  340. Syndace Tag means XML-Tag there, it's just a little confusion
  341. flow err, jubalh ^
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  364. jubalh so the gcm tag isnt encrypted if i see it right
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  430. l jubalh, flow: This behavior changed in OMEMO. The original version would put the gcm tag to the ciphertext (this way it doesn't qualify for authenticity, but at least as a checksum), later the behavior was changed to encrypt the gcm tag to each device (so we get real authenticity as the per-device encryption is also signed). All clients support decrypting the old version, but for some time, some clients lacked support for decrypting the new version. Dino support decrypting both, but still encrypts using the old protocol. We should definitely change to the new version and there already is an issue for it https://github.com/dino/dino/issues/514 ;)
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  434. jubalh l, awesome thanks for clarifying this!
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  470. Syndace l, anywhere I can read up on the details? I have the same problem that my lib works with all clients but Dino.
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  703. Wiktor Hello, I've got a question about "OTR has widely been replaced by OMEMO in the XMPP network and is recommended to be used instead." that is on https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/OTR It seems it's not clear what is recommended there and I think some draw the conclusion that it's OTR that is recommended (see: https://github.com/golang/go/issues/30141#issuecomment-467913000 ). I'm not a native speaker but what do you think about improving it so that the intent is clear?
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  707. dwd "OTR is no longer the recommended way to wreck your user experience in return for some badly-understood security. Use OMEMO instead"?
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  709. jonas’ dwd, +1
  710. pep. that
  711. Wiktor dwd, 👍️. sounds unambiguous
  712. Wiktor just to show you the context: quote "in the XMPP world, the OTR protocol is still used as the standard secure messaging protocol" on https://github.com/golang/go/issues/30141#issuecomment-462031961
  713. Ge0rG [Redirect to:OMEMO]
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  716. MattJ Wiktor, http://omemo.top/
  717. Wiktor I know I know, but apparently some people don't, I already commented on the GH ticket but the OTR guys took the quote from XMPP wiki as a recommendation *for* OTR
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  719. Wiktor that's... I think... sub-optimal
  720. jonas’ Wiktor, don’t you have +w on the wiki?
  721. Wiktor oh, wait, I do have it 🤔️ I hope it doesn't look weird if I say "even XMPP wiki recomends" and then write the recommendation myself :)
  722. jonas’ hah
  723. jonas’ just put dwds suggestion in it
  724. Wiktor 👍️
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  726. pep. That golang issue is missing the transport agnostic use-case, which is not inexistant. (even if that's what's mostly criticized of OTR in the XMPP community)
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  732. Wiktor yeah, I was just annoyed at taking XMPP as an example of OTR being successfully deployed
  733. jonas’ I still use and prefer OTR over OMEMO
  734. Zash I'm sure OTR is still in use in some circles
  735. Wiktor I don't mind their work, it would be completely stupid if I dictated how they should spend their time :)
  736. Zash Like those serrvers that mandate OTR
  737. Wiktor jonas’, why? genuinely curious
  738. MattJ Me too
  739. jonas’ Wiktor, mine and my wife’s primary 1:1 client doesn’t support OMEMO in any usable way (i.e. without compiling some modules which aren’t even working)
  740. jonas’ while OTR was painless to install and to use -- except with Conversations, but *that* issue has resolved itself nicely.
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  742. Wiktor jonas’, what's that client that your wife is using?
  743. jonas’ pidgin
  744. Wiktor got it
  745. jonas’ in the past because multi-protocol, and now because "used to it"
  746. jonas’ and why change a running system
  747. jonas’ in a single-client setup, it’s very much "good enough"
  748. jonas’ especially when you’re still from the age of ICQ, so you know that a sudden reconnect causes lost messages and you need to negotiate that in-band
  749. Wiktor no probs with that, I understand legacy solutions, heck, I'm still using some ;)
  750. jonas’ I personally still use pidgin to keep the pain levels high enough to motivate me to work on my own client side stuff
  751. Wiktor haha, good idea 👍️
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