XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2019-05-16


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  10. Ge0rG I want three layer parallax scrolling, and an interactive shooter game easter egg
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  41. test wazzup guys
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  82. jonas’ Zash, it doesn’t work for inbox though
  83. Zash Did those go through a different pipeline?
  84. Zash Or, paths?
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  95. jonas’ probably paths
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  125. eevvoor Is here somebody in academia? I am thinking about research in the XMPP area and are happy about collaborations.
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  130. dwd eevvoor, There have been researchers working on/with XMPP before - I think there was a guy a couple of years back who put together a list of papers and things.
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  132. eevvoor dwd, do you remember his name
  133. dwd Looks like the effort died (and it was longer ago than I thought) http://www.xmppresearch.org/
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  136. Zash Didn't some researchers visit a recent summit?
  137. eevvoor thx very much dwd
  138. dwd Zash, That was those guys. And you, too, are old. :-)
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  140. Guus iirc one of the people that is currently signing up as an XSF member mentions academic research in his application
  141. Guus And if I'm not mistaken, various of our German members are either employed or studying at universities.
  142. Guus pdurbin, weren't you too?
  143. eevvoor Flow is a researcher but does all XMPP stuff in his free time.
  144. eevvoor pdurbin is a programmer in science but no scientist ;)
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  148. Guus maybe you can re-ignite http://www.xmppresearch.org/ 🙂
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  150. eevvoor try to :) Guus
  151. eevvoor https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Membership_Applications_Q2_2019 Waar vind ik iirc Guus? Ik zie hem niet.
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  154. pdurbin Batman's a scientist.
  155. Guus "iirc" is an acronym, not a nickname: "if I remember correctly"
  156. pdurbin eevvoor: what do you want to collaborate with someone on? What are your research interests?
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  158. eevvoor pdurbin, i.e. CQL-requests to search-engines (ElasticSearch, solr, Lucene). But I am generally interested which scientific research is going on about XMPP. Formal investigations would also be fruitful.
  159. eevvoor pdurbin, i.e. currently, as I've told you already, CQL-requests to search-engines (ElasticSearch, solr, Lucene). But I am generally interested which scientific research is going on about XMPP. Formal investigations would also be fruitful.
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  163. pdurbin Do you have a webpage of your research interests?
  164. eevvoor pdurbin, no
  165. eevvoor Guus dus wie is nu iirc? :D
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  170. pdurbin How about an ORCID id?
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  192. pdurbin I should put more information on my orcid landing page: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-9528-9470
  193. Ge0rG eevvoor: there seems to be some research about using xmpp in it security event reporting
  194. Ge0rG eevvoor: I'm also interested in the topic, maybe also in the context of IoT
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  209. pdurbin There's a guy at work who will be presenting an idea next week about using ActivityPub as a replacement for OAI-PMH (a protocol we use to "harvest" content from one site to another) but XMPP could probably be used for this as well. Here is what he has written so far: https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/edit/PP6iDKQqXMy8uH016MnH0hIE/
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  226. goffi pdurbin: yes XMPP could be use for sure, also I've checked quickly the pad, it states that Diaspora is using ActivityPub which is false (it's using its own protocol).
  227. jonas’ Guus, shouldn’t you be the one to ignite things? ;)
  228. edhelas goffi oh I though they moved to ActivityPub as well ?
  229. goffi edhelas: as far as I know they didn't, there are discussion on it but they still use their own protocol. But I'm not following this closely to be honest.
  230. Guus jonas’ I'm igniting things all over
  231. Guus (I might be missing context?)
  232. Guus ooohhhh - _late_ response to my re-ignite remark.
  233. jonas’ Guus, very late :)
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  242. nyco polishes the gavel
  243. Seve Guys looks like I will be able to follow the meeting a bit, but not participating 100%
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  246. nyco so you can apologise about your apology?
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  250. ralphm 0. Welcome + Agenda
  251. ralphm Who? What?
  252. nyco _o/*
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  255. Guus hi
  256. nyco https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  257. MattJ Hey
  258. ralphm nyco: clever nyco, by now you should know this item is to ensure everything is on there.
  259. nyco are the "Awaiting feedback" and "Backburner" columns useful?
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  261. ralphm I think so
  262. ralphm Was a meeting had last two weeks? I haven't seen minutes.
  263. pdurbin So who is right about Diaspora? Uses ActivityPub or not?
  264. nyco I missed the two last weeks (vacations), sorry
  265. ralphm pdurbin: can you wait until after the Board Meeting?
  266. Guus we skipped the oldest, we had a brief meeting last week.
  267. ralphm pdurbin: (shouldn't be more than 30 min)
  268. ralphm Guus: highlights?
  269. Guus I was talking to myself, mostly, iirc.
  270. Seve Yes
  271. Guus http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2019-05-09?p=h
  272. Seve Thank you
  273. ralphm Ok.
  274. ralphm 1. Minute taker
  275. MattJ <fast-forward 5 minutes of silence>
  276. nyco I'll do dat
  277. ralphm Yay
  278. ralphm Thanks MattJ
  279. ralphm 2. What happens when a typo is fixed in a deferred XEP
  280. ralphm From the brief reading of last weeks meeting, there is going to be a new approach
  281. ralphm I think we can archive this?
  282. Guus Kev mentioned last week that jonas’ is working on improvements.
  283. ralphm (until that new thing arrives?)
  284. ralphm Or at least move it to Awaiting
  285. Seve Ok
  286. ralphm 3. Server setup
  287. Guus I'm fine with either approach
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  289. ralphm MattJ: let's set a time to discuss this (oob)
  290. MattJ +1
  291. ralphm 4. Tigase logo use
  292. Guus as a side note: do we have an uptodate inventory of what servers we have?
  293. MattJ No
  294. ralphm I'm catching up on stuff since PyCon, and will send them an e-mail.
  295. Guus (maybe take that on as part of said disucssion?)
  296. ralphm Guus: good suggestion.
  297. MattJ Guus, it's one of my top priorities
  298. ralphm 5. Reach out strategy
  299. ralphm I think we should pick this up. Last week at PyCon I found many people asking about (my) XMPP (hoodie), and we should do better at having these use cases known.
  300. Guus I think there's much benefit to be had here, but am unsure how to proceed.
  301. nyco marketing intern?
  302. Seve I feel we need some other way to work on that item, not sure if we have enough with weekly meetings. Maybe some blank papet somewhere and start writing thoughts there
  303. ralphm nyco: not sure. I think e.g. our communications team already has some better view on this
  304. nyco we're developers, have real mkt persons can definitely help
  305. ralphm But I'd first ask the community to come up with known uses of XMPP so we can put them up.
  306. nyco sure, great but then what?
  307. nyco shape it, deliver it, spread the word
  308. ralphm nyco: yes
  309. Guus ralphm, I don't think we need to ask for more potential parties to communicate with.
  310. nyco do we have that capacity internally?
  311. Guus We have a couple of good ones that we can start with
  312. Guus as nyco said, the 'what's next' thingy is more of a challenge than figuring out who to approach.
  313. ralphm I think expanding https://xmpp.org/uses/ with cases originating (and approved by) with such projects.
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  316. ralphm E.g. we know that Fortnite uses XMPP, they've blogged about it. I'd like a testimonial from them.
  317. nyco what analytics do we have?
  318. nyco I mean, what's the traffic on that page? subpages? what CTA?
  319. Seve This is also something I would like us to try, get testimonials from "big players"
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  321. Guus ralphm I suggest we pick and choose one party, and start figuring out how we could get from them what we'd like (such as testimonials).
  322. Guus maybe not start with the highest-value party, in case we mess up?
  323. nyco our members first
  324. Guus nyco I'm not aware of analytics being available for our webpage. Bear once compiled stuff from access logs, but that was a once-off, as far as I know.
  325. nyco I suggest Matomo to the iTeam
  326. Seve But we also discussed if we could offer something to them (what could we do for them to accept writing those testimonials)
  327. Guus nyco if feel that we're perhaps discussing different things?
  328. nyco that's the point, if we offer exposure, we have to deliver our numbers and optimise them (growth)
  329. Guus ah, like that.
  330. nyco Guus right on track
  331. Guus unsure if that's super critical, to be honest.
  332. ralphm I'm wondering if we should start out with having that all fully fleshed out.
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  335. Guus I don't think Fortnite benefits from being on our website, no matter how poorly/brilliantly it's being visited.
  336. nyco what's the point trying to "communicate" and expose use cases if we don't measure?
  337. ralphm If we're starting with out membership, I think we should be able to get some testimonials without any strings attached.
  338. MattJ +1, I think that's a sensible start
  339. nyco members and sponsors should be able to provide their uses cases, that's a win-win for all
  340. Guus ralphm I don't understand what you're suggesting.
  341. ralphm nyco: I first want a place to point people and surprise them with XMPP not being dead
  342. Seve Very happy about this!
  343. ralphm I admire loftier goal, but not right now.
  344. MattJ Guus, I think a simple "Call for use-cases/testimonials" to members@
  345. Seve Going in the right direction!
  346. nyco agree, "XMPP is not dead" in another shape, can be a good starting point
  347. nyco members _and_ sponsors
  348. Guus MattJ ACK. tx
  349. Guus what sponsors?
  350. nyco ah
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  352. ralphm Ok, who offers to write a call for testimonials?
  353. Guus I can do that, if no-one takes that on.
  354. nyco I can help
  355. ralphm I'd say the result for now should be a single paragraph, including the product name, and an estimate of the user base. Possibly with a link to a more elaborate (self-hosted) page.
  356. nyco then do a signifcant list
  357. ralphm I'm not sure about how to specify the user base. I telcos they use things like MAU, which is recognisable?
  358. nyco just gotta explain the meaning
  359. ralphm Monthly Active Users
  360. nyco yes
  361. ralphm I'm also kind of interested in concurrently connected, but that's probably to detailed.
  362. nyco aka number of users who got active at least once during last month
  363. ralphm Also, if it is not end users, but devices, the same goes. (MAD :-) )
  364. Guus people will simply name 'users' in whatever context is relevant to the project, I think.
  365. nyco (some say "organisations converted")
  366. ralphm Guus: "some indication of user activity, e.g. MUA or average concurrently connected users)
  367. nyco (when they are ashamed of the active userbase)
  368. nyco Mail User Agent ?
  369. ralphm MAU of course
  370. nyco MRR as well, maybe
  371. ralphm Other suggestions for Guus and nyco's Call?
  372. MattJ Just keep it simple :)
  373. ralphm yes, very much this.
  374. MattJ We can always ask for more info on individual responses if needed
  375. MattJ Just having the responses is a great start
  376. ralphm Let's draft it, send it to Board, and then send it out before next meeting.
  377. nyco ok
  378. Guus ok
  379. ralphm Yay!
  380. Seve Indeed
  381. Seve Cool
  382. ralphm 6. Compliance badges
  383. neshtaxmpp has left
  384. ralphm Where are we?
  385. Guus last time, i promised to poll members
  386. Guus which I didn't do yet
  387. nyco (we've passed 30 min meeting)
  388. ralphm ok, moving to next week
  389. Guus I just added a trello card on the commitments lane for that
  390. ralphm 7. Messenger Regulation
  391. neshtaxmpp has joined
  392. ralphm I think this item is about efforts to regulate companies to open up their respective messengers
  393. ralphm e.g. by mandating federaion
  394. Guus No, this is about trying to work with the german government.
  395. Guus and establish a direct line of communication about XMPP.
  396. ralphm Guus: I believe what I wrote is the bigger picture. The thing we discussed with Ge0rG last week?
  397. Guus one might follow from the other, but need not.
  398. Guus I'd suggest we first try to get our foot in the door
  399. ralphm What is action item at this point in time?
  400. neshtaxmpp has left
  401. Guus Starting a dialog in itself will be tricky enough.
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  403. Guus "assign someone to make contact with the German government."
  404. Guus to quote Georg:
  405. Guus > who is representing the XSF, to contact the appropriate ministry and establish a permanent contact at the working-level, to ensure that Open Standards are established as the foundation for interoperation, and maybe even to make XMPP the best-suited standard.
  406. ralphm I'd be happy to take on this action, but would need guidance on who (exactly) to approach.
  407. Guus Ge0rG suggested this to be picked up by a German national
  408. ralphm (Given we lack a Executive Director, I think the Chair is probably the next in line)
  409. Guus > because German politicians don't listen much to foreigners
  410. ralphm Sure. As I mentioned before, we have one German citizen as Director: Alex. I could work with him and Ge0rG?
  411. Guus sounds good.
  412. nyco great
  413. Guus I'm hoping that Ge0rG has ideas on how (and who) to approach this.
  414. ralphm Right
  415. Guus mentioning Ge0rG repeatingly in the hope that he pitches in now does not seem to have the desired effect so far though...
  416. MattJ He's currently away
  417. MattJ for another week
  418. Seve Ah, true.
  419. Guus I talked to him earlier, but sure 🙂
  420. ralphm ah
  421. ralphm Ok, I think that's it for today.
  422. ralphm 8. AOB
  423. ralphm I haven't seen any.
  424. ralphm 9. Date of Next
  425. ralphm +1W
  426. neshtaxmpp has joined
  427. ralphm 10 Close
  428. ralphm Thanks all!
  429. Seve Wow, great! Thank you all!
  430. ralphm bangs gavel
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  432. nyco thx
  433. ralphm pdurbin: the floor is open again :-)
  434. Guus thanks, byes!
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  443. nyco in on the minutes, wanna get rid of this asap
  444. MattJ Thanks :)
  445. Seve nyco: thank you!
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  448. nyco minutes sent, please correct me where I'm wrong
  449. ralphm I put out a PR for updating our current list of sponsors.
  450. ralphm https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/567
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  454. pdurbin So who is right about Diaspora? Does it use ActivityPub or not?
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  459. jonas’ Guus, yes, I hope to work on the improvements soon-ish
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  469. goffi pdurbin: https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/issues/7422 so it's only discussed and they still use their own protocol.
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  503. pdurbin goffi: ok, thanks!
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  505. jonas’ Subject: [editor] XSF: Invitation to connect with M-Sec Project (XEP)
  506. jonas’ did this somehow reach the board?
  507. jonas’ https://trello.com/c/hZW01mu3/351-invitation-to-connect-with-m-sec-project
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  549. Seve jonas’: Board has not been contacted, at least as a whole, thank you for letting us know. Could you please also forward it to board@xmpp.org?
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  553. jonas’ Seve, done, I’m not sure I’m allowed to send to that list (which is why I made a trello item in the first place)
  554. Seve jonas’: I'm also a moderator of the list, no problem, and thank you very much
  555. jonas’ \o/
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