XSF Discussion - 2019-07-19

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02:27:22 tom >tom, can you tell my corporate IT dept, they use all the proprietary blackboxes, riverbed, telari, cisco, and palo alto I think it's more of a leadership issue tbh. The places I've worked at, the CEO understood how to sell a product. They were not engineers. They paid engineers to make the engineering detail decisions. That understood that is; after the whole whole reason they are paying them for.
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02:28:12 tom well, the CEO was more knowing how to lead all the different teams
02:28:20 tom because we did have a sales team and they did sales
02:28:30 tom and an accounting team which managed the money
02:28:49 tom the 'officers' acted as the glue
02:28:52 tom and were very good at it
02:29:25 tom and delegated things they were not good at to people who were
02:31:46 tom then again the product was IP transit, so the quality of the technology was the end goal
02:31:57 tom not just a means
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05:44:49 moparisthebest hmm nyco not a huge deal but I don't think https://github.com/xsf/xeps/commit/6e1c4675714d80824f5f951a64c2d47e14deee4b#diff-48188c65e1a20d564eb9dbe110506a16 is correct either
05:45:39 moparisthebest > the document specifies to DO THIS
05:45:56 moparisthebest is what I meant, probably could be worded better, but two doesn't make sense there to me
05:47:40 moparisthebest maybe "This document specifies an algorithm to additionally look up records..." or "This document specifies a method to additionally look up records..." or "This document specifies a way to additionally look up records..."
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06:47:23 jonas’ moparisthebest, huh, you’re right
06:47:25 jonas’ I need to revert htat
06:47:34 jonas’ It somehow made sense to me when I read it, but it doesn’t
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07:32:21 Ge0rG that DNSSEC vs SRV debate last night, was it based on Travis' email?
07:32:36 jonas’ vice versa probably
07:32:46 Ge0rG oh, the timestamps
07:33:20 Ge0rG How could I have possibly missed the addition of a MUST NOT?
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10:45:22 pep. heh, most protoXEPs in the inbox fail at linking to the proper xslt file so the .xml link fails
10:45:51 pep. Maybe we could also have a link to that file in the inbox
10:50:04 Ge0rG that would make sense
11:05:51 pep. I submitted a PR
11:09:40 jonas’ pep., against the nginx config?
11:10:23 pep. ah, no I just added a symlink, just like there were already for the .ent and .dtd
11:10:45 pep. against xsf/xeps
11:10:48 jonas’ I see
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14:11:13 pep. https://bouah.net/2019/07/new-sprint-new-goodies/
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14:52:17 Ge0rG pep.: I've answered to the reactions "thread" now
14:52:35 pep. :)
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17:46:35 larma Ge0rG: I answered your answer ;)
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17:51:40 Ge0rG larma: I think you misread my mail. "Each reaction SHOULD contain a legacy reaction body" ;)
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17:52:25 Ge0rG good points on Reactions and LMC, though.
17:52:35 Ge0rG I always disliked LMCs limitation to "the last message"
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17:55:38 pep. I am sure this could be changed, no? I actually liked your point about LMC
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17:56:00 pep. Actually, all except backwards compatibility
17:56:05 Ge0rG Reactions surely can define an exception to the strict LMC rule
17:56:25 Ge0rG even then, it's not an issue.
17:56:33 Ge0rG instead of a correction you see a new legacy reaction
17:56:42 pep. legacy?
17:56:52 pep. "new legacy"?
17:57:14 Ge0rG legacy reaction = body
17:57:30 pep. Ok. Not for me, thanks :x
17:59:27 Ge0rG what's not for you?
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18:24:23 larma Ge0rG: no I didn't misread your mail, my opinion is SHOULD NOT or MUST NOT have a body
18:24:50 larma If we do any business rules regarding body
18:26:00 larma A fallback body will render the feature unusable as long as there are legacy clients
18:26:28 pep. And we all know that there will always be legacy clients :)
18:26:28 Ge0rG larma: your reaction seemed to imply you read it as "MUST have"
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18:26:46 Ge0rG larma: I disagree. The lack of a legacy body will render the feature unusable.
18:27:08 Ge0rG having that feature will increase the pressure on legacy users.
18:28:03 pep. I disagree with your last statement
18:28:44 pep. Unless you make the fallback broken on purpose to bully implementations, (granted, one could argue 393 is broken and it might be good enough, but not everybody agrees with me on this)
18:30:37 Ge0rG pep.: the more important question is whether you agree with the previous statement ;)
18:31:03 pep. I disagree as well
18:31:15 pep. And I disagree in a more general way than just reactions
18:31:57 pep. I mean I disagree, with your statement
18:32:53 pep. I mean I disagree with your statement
18:33:55 Ge0rG pep.: I see you moved that back to the list. very good
18:34:00 pep. yep
18:37:30 Ge0rG thanks, I'll write a response when I'm less busy.
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19:52:58 Lance I just noticed that there's not really an easy way to get an individual entry out of MAM if you already know its archive id. Closest I can find is requesting the item before/after the id I have, then request 1 item after/before that one, to get the item I originally wanted.
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20:27:24 waqas Lance: You likely want to go for the item before it. Going for the item after and then the item before that is prone to race condition.
20:28:20 Lance Ah, yes
20:35:45 Lance It works ok enough for use case of deep linking into history, if you also want +/-N additional messages of surrounding context
20:36:32 Lance but i was tinkering with saving just the archive id in a pubsub item to do pinned messages
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20:38:44 waqas I imagine there was an assumption of "if you know the ID, you already have the message". MAM is not POP, and isn't a full DB system either.
20:39:36 Lance yeah, that makes sense
20:40:51 waqas Though a lot of folks do keep pushing (with some success) to have MAM just be a SQL dialect. It's harder to implement on things which don't have SQL indices and such.
20:41:10 Lance i can resolve it pretty easily by letting my server understand a new custom form field
20:41:32 Lance but this was a "Huh???" moment
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