XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2019-08-05


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  78. rion Is there any description of transport negotiation for https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0338.html ?
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  81. rion I guess it's like 1) all content element in group MUST describe the same transport 2) an implementation should assume 1 and take any to start negotiating. 3) during transport negotiation it doesn't matter which content name in group is used for transport-info messages 4) after the transport is negotiated all the content in group is considered to be ready to transfer data.
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  148. fippo https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6120#section-4.7.3 -- do we have any good reference for the "random and non-repeating" requirement for the stream id? I'm fairly sure we didn't come up with it ourselves
  149. Ge0rG it sounds like uuid v4 or something
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  151. fippo i recall "take the timestamp and add something random" in that context. but not sure from where. maybe dwd remembers?
  152. Ge0rG fippo: that sounds like uuid v1 and v2
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  181. Ge0rG marc_: ping. Do you have short-/mid-term plans to work on XEP-0401?
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  190. marc_ Ge0rG: I'm at a point where it would be nice to meet with other people to discuss how to integrate this feature for good UX
  191. jonas’ meet? like, in meatspace?
  192. Ge0rG marc_: then you should go to a Sprint.
  193. marc_ Also, if we should rely on PARS and so on
  194. Ge0rG marc_: I feel that the unfinished state of 0401 is distracting people from implementing it
  195. jonas’ s/distracting/detracting/?
  196. Ge0rG deterring.
  197. Ge0rG I have very strong opinions regarding PARS.
  198. marc_ Ge0rG: what opinion?
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  201. Ge0rG marc_: PARS is a very good fit for the use case.
  202. marc_ Ge0rG: yes, for this kind of discussion "we" need to meet in person
  203. marc_ Ge0rG: why do you ask?
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  210. Ge0rG marc_: Are you coming to FrOSCon? That will be probably the only chance in the next months.
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  212. Ge0rG marc_: other than that, email / xmpp should do it.
  213. Ge0rG marc_: and I'm asking because one day, The Editor will realize that it's actually Deferred by now.
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  215. pep. Don't say it too loudly
  216. marc_ Ge0rG: I don't know when is FrosCon?
  217. jonas’ oh right, I forgot to run The Script
  218. pep. this weekend
  219. marc_ Then I'm not at Froscon 😄
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  226. Ge0rG marc_: I want to finally make 0401 usable, and integrate it in the next yaxim release.
  227. marc_ Ge0rG: do you know if somebody else is interested in this feature?
  228. Ge0rG marc_: Anu from Monal is interested in easier user onboarding, and I'm sure we'll find more non-stubborn people
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  238. marc_ Ge0rG: what's your timeline?
  239. pep. I'd also like PARS tbh, but just IBR in poezio is a pain (in slix actually)
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  242. marc_ pep.: pars != ibr
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  244. marc_ pep.: maybe I don't get what you want to say
  245. pep. marc_, yeah ok not 401, but IBR does count into onboarding
  246. pep. hmm, 401 does mention ibr
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  249. marc_ Yes, but pars is without ibr
  250. marc_ I would prefer 401 without pars at all
  251. pep. https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0401.html#redeem-no-account
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  254. pep. Also https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0401.html#preauth-ibr
  255. marc_ pep.: 401 has ibr but pars doesn't
  256. pep. Ah sorry I was confused, PARS is not 401 indeed
  257. marc_ Or let me rephrase: I would like to have 401 with a single use-case without fallback, different UX and so on
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  261. Ge0rG marc_: what are the UX inconsistencies you see currently?
  262. marc_ Ge0rG: different behaviour when the Server does not support 401 or ibr
  263. Ge0rG marc_: I'm very sure those can be hidden from the users, except obviously when a server supports neither, in which case you are lost.
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  265. pep. Is there a prosody module for all that btw?
  266. marc_ Ge0rG: no, you have to choose a server, create a regular account when ibr is not allowed
  267. marc_ You cannot hide this
  268. marc_ pep.: no, not for 401
  269. pep. marc_, the client can abstract some of it still. At least the choice of server can be really oriented
  270. marc_ pep.: how?
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  273. marc_ By using a default one?
  274. pep. Choosing one depending on $stuff, (user language, location, etc.?)
  275. Ge0rG marc_: have you seen the yaxim onboarding?
  276. Ge0rG marc_: are you saying that it's better to fail immediately than to provide graceful fallback?
  277. marc_ No, I would say "invite" is invitation on a server. Everthing else is adding a contact
  278. marc_ Then it is clear what will happen
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  280. Ge0rG marc_: but the user wants to get both in one step
  281. Ge0rG A user doesn't care what kind of tech magic is behind, they want a simple and fast onboarding
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  283. marc_ Ge0rG: create account + mutual subscruption of couree
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  285. Ge0rG marc_: I'm just saying that it makes very much sense to use the same PARS mechanism for the out of band invitation transmission
  286. marc_ Ge0rG: however, I would split add contact (with server pars) and account invite
  287. Ge0rG marc_: but why?
  288. marc_ But the UX changes if ibr is not supported
  289. marc_ And different UI for the same "invite" sucks
  290. marc_ Different UI because some tech stuff in the background sucks IMO
  291. marc_ Different UI because some tech stuff in the background is different sucks IMO
  292. Ge0rG marc_: what's different about the UI?
  293. marc_ (Not) able to create an account, as said before
  294. Ge0rG marc_: the difference is what comes behind the @ in the dialog.
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  297. marc_ Yes, sometimes you have to choose a server
  298. Ge0rG You as the invitee should always be able to choose the server.
  299. Ge0rG And still send up with your friend added
  300. marc_ Yep, at least when you add a contact
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  302. Ge0rG No, always.
  303. marc_ But that's what needs to be discussed :)
  304. Ge0rG You don't need 0401 for manually adding friends
  305. marc_ Yep, you need it for account creation and server-side pars
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  308. Ge0rG marc_: that reads like we agree
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  312. Ge0rG marc_: and I was asking because 0401 needs some text improvements, and I wanted to step up
  313. marc_ Ge0rG: I don't know if we agree but would be nice if you discuss 401 with other xmpp guys at froscon
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  315. marc_ Ge0rG: I really would like to see some movement on 401
  316. marc_ I think At the end of this month I have time to work on it
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  318. Ge0rG marc_: are there still text improvements to be made?
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  320. marc_ Ge0rG: in 401? Of course, there are even some TODOs IiRC
  321. Ge0rG marc_: because that makes it hard to pitch it to developers
  322. marc_ You can not pitch it, just pitch the idea :D
  323. Ge0rG marc_: and they will ask for the XEP
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  327. marc_ XEP is not a big deal once all agree on the same user story / use case
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  338. marc_ Ge0rG: what's the timeline for the next yaxim release
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  340. Ge0rG marc_: I have no idea, sorry.
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  356. marc_ Ge0rG: okay, sounded like you plan a release in the next few weeks :)
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  363. Ge0rG marc_: no, but other developers do
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