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Daniel
If references are going to use fasten and Sims uses references am I going to fasten within the message itself?
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Ge0rG
Daniel: references will only use fasten if they are added by another entity after the original message
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Ge0rG
So if you put a SIMS into the original message, you don't fasten it.
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Ge0rG
If you add a SIMS later, it needs to be fastened to the original, and might also contain a reference of the specific text fragment
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messi
my file is already been encrypted in the file format of xmpp.jp so how to resolve it
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messi
we have send u an mail on the given by you but ur mail id is not correct so kindly send us ur proper mailid
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ralphm
Daniel: I will include a SIMS example
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flow
why do we need the raplace attribute in <apply-to> (from the fasten protoxep)?
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ralphm
To explicitly override a previous fastened thing, as opposed to having another one.
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flow
I mean I think I understand it, but it should probably be spelled out what happend if it is not there
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flow
or set to false (which I assume is the default)
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ralphm
Kev just wanted to get the thing in the inbox to make sure we can start discussing it. I think everyone agrees that it needs work, and this is one of those things.
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ralphm
Another is actually retracting fastened things, as well as retracting the original message completely.
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flow
Sure, some figures/graphs would also be great
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Ge0rG
I've heard there is a blog post in the making...
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ralphm
Yes, I'm working on it right now :-D
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Ge0rG
Guus: your anonymous s2s filter has failed indeed, I have a subscription request from one random account. I was just looking in the logs on the wrong machine. Will grep when I'm back at a real computer
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Guus
Ge0rG: eek!
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Guus
I'm interested in the details
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Ge0rG
Guus: looks like the subscription request just went out unfiltered. I sent XML logs to you privately
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Guus
Ge0rG: Thanks. This is puzzling. Messages did get blocked?
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Ge0rG
Guus: yes
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Guus
Puzzling. I'm unaware of another flow that leads to S2S session establishment, but there obviously is one
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Guus
I'll look into this
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Zash
Already establised sessions?
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Ge0rG
Guus: you also have real accounts on that domain, and those are allowed to do s2s
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Guus
I worded that wrong
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Guus
it's the router (which conditionally causes s2s sessions to be established, but that's besides the point)
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Ge0rG
Anon sessions shouldn't even be able to trigger the router
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Ge0rG
Guus: if the s2s session already exists, will an anon user be able to send messages thorough it?
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Guus
Ge0rG obviously anon sessions hit the router. If not, we me might as well drop support for anonymous.
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Guus
s2s session existence shouldn't be a factor, but obviously, I'm missing something.
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Ge0rG
Guus: I don't think there was a session to my private server before I sent the subscription
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Guus
shouldn't matter, but could rule something out
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Guus
I'm debugging now
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flow
Ge0rG, what was/is the latest on you approaching the german government regarding open-standards communication?
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Ge0rG
flow: no useful news yet
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Ge0rG
flow: the last status was probably logged in a Board meeting a month ago
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Guus
Once more, Ge0rG improves the quality of Openfire.
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Guus
I know that some of you don't think that that's difficult, but I don't see many of you do what Ge0rG does 😛
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Ge0rG
Guus: maybe it's a sign that everyone is lacking resources?
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Ge0rG
While I'm a professional pen tester, this engagement didn't require any of my special skills.. 😉
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Guus
Be like Ge0rG .
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Ge0rG
Ironically, people tell me to be less like Ge0rG. Don't be like grumpy Ge0rG.
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Guus
Don't be like people that are telling Ge0rG to be less like Ge0rG. Be like Ge0rG.
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Ge0rG
Guus: may I quote you on my next Council election rally?
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Guus
Yes please. I want a kickback on the profit of t-shirts with this on it though
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Zash
Guus, ok, I'll try to be grumpier.
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Guus
THAT'S THE SPIRIT
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pep.
The tagline on my website is already "grumpy pep". Should I try harder?
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Zash
The Grumpy XMPP Gang
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Ge0rG
pep.: you are not nearly grumpy enough
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pep.
gotcha
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pep.
I think you've missed my many attempts on Debian and dynamic typing though
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Ge0rG
pep.: maybe. Did you write them in the off topic muc?
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Ge0rG
http://exple.tive.org/blarg/2019/09/06/forward-motion/
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Ge0rG
Our candidates are: Mattermost, Matrix/Riot.IM, Rocket.Chat, and Slack
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Ge0rG
This is frigging sad
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mathieui
wow that’s awful
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pep.
When do we convert Mattermost or Rocket.Chat to XMPP?
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pep.
(or Riot?)
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pep.
XMPP isn't even mentioned in the "solutions we didn't pick and why"
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pep.
..
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pep.
XMPP implementations, that is.
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pep.
Though Zulip was XMPP, no?
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mathieui
I don’t think so
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Zash
HipChat was
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Zash
Don't think anything else in that space is
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ralphm
Yup HipChat was XMPP, written in Twisted/Python. Had some issues and then Atlassian made a deal with Slack.
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Ge0rG
Everybody makes a deal with slack. Except Microsoft, they just sneakily force-install Teams on all windows computers.
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pep.
Just like Android has non-removable Google stuff? It's pretty much the default nowadays :)
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pep.
Gotta take advantage of providing a platform
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Guus
Zulip isnt XMPP
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pep.
k
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edhelas
https://twitter.com/edhelas/status/1170465450079207430
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pep.
Indeed.
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pep.
I wasn't that direct, https://post.lurk.org/@pep/102753556039334817 :-°
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edhelas
but actually, what removed XMPP from the choice was the lack of a proper "Slack like" client
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edhelas
Movim is approaching a bit the design but doesn't have this UX/UI that is shared among alllll those projects
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pep.
Sure, what I said above. Ah wait no that was in the other room. "pep.> Our lack of bundled solution (server+web client) is probably the culprit"
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edhelas
possible
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linkmauve
pep., do we really have none of that? I’m pretty sure I saw some such (commercial) offerings.
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pep.
Do we?
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pep.
I'd like to hear about them
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mathieui
(I’m pretty sure they got their suggestions off their discourse forum, whose users probably have not heard of such solutions)
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edhelas
> all i am going to say about that: we are looking at products that make our community more productive and resolves issues we have around communication, we are not looking at protocols. if there is an overlap, cool. if not, cool.
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edhelas
from a friend that is working at Mozilla
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pep.
So the manifesto is just for lolz? As usual?
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edhelas
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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mathieui
edhelas, it says so there: http://exple.tive.org/blarg/2019/04/26/synchronous-text/
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pep.
> We aren’t picking an outlier; whatever stack we choose needs to be a modern, proven service that seems to have a solid provenance and a good life ahead of it. We’re not moving from one idiosyncratic outlier stack to another idiosyncratic outlier stack. Does that include XMPP?
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Zash
Does that include IRC?
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pep.
Apparently it does
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Zash
Also "service"
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Zash
XMPP is not a service.
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Zash
Or a product.
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edhelas
> mattermost inc. is very happy to provide support and long-term gurantees for their product when asked. and given by the range and amount of customers they already support, I have no reason to doubt that
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edhelas
I think that it's pretty clear what we're missing there
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pep.
I'm not convinced "one more solution" is the solution though :(
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Zash
1. Start Jabber Inc. 2.0! 2. ??? 3. Profit!
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Zash
History ain't gonna repeat itself! (or wait)
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edhelas
it's not about Jabber or stuff like that
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Zash
> Inc. -orporated
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edhelas
but proposing a client + server package with a "modern" (basically Slack like) client and full support behind it