XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2019-09-21


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  120. flow MattJ, May I suggest to remove the "Servers MUST NOT include the <stanza-id/> element in messages addressed to JIDs that do not have permissions to access the archive" from xep313. It appears to provide very little, I'd even say nothing because the id-String shouldn't reveal anything, for a lot of complexity in the MAM archive service implementation
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  123. lovetox it does reveal something
  124. lovetox on ejabberd for example the exact timestamp of the message
  125. MattJ I think it would have to be tied with a requirement that ids do not leak any info
  126. lovetox yeah and this would be bad
  127. MattJ I'm not sure timestamp counts as a problem
  128. MattJ But if it was combined with a counter it would
  129. MattJ And timestamps are not unique on their own
  130. flow lovetox, well that would violate a MUST frmo xep359
  131. flow also I am not sure if timestamps are a problem
  132. lovetox its very useful that ejabberd uses timestamps as messages
  133. lovetox its very useful that ejabberd uses timestamps as ids
  134. lovetox as it allows to determine a order
  135. lovetox even if impl cannot rely on it because other servers dont do that
  136. MattJ Tell me you don't depend on that :)
  137. flow furthermore, we could at least relax the requirement in xep313, e.g. by making it conditional
  138. lovetox of course i dont, as not all servers do that
  139. lovetox when i remember correctly the only argument against a orderable id was
  140. lovetox clusters may be more complex to implement that
  141. flow but I would simply remove that requirement from xep313, which also would make the xep less complex, which is always good
  142. pep. > MattJ> I think it would have to be tied with a requirement that ids do not leak any info Isn't that the case already?
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  145. pep. For 0359 stuff
  146. pep. Hmm, it says "unique and stable" and recommends UUID..
  147. pep. I think that's good enough
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  154. lovetox i see xep 0398 is under specified
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  156. lovetox it says "Upon receiving a vCard publication request with a valid photo attached"
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  161. lovetox so no photo element is invalid in this case?
  162. lovetox means every client out there now has to publish empty photo elements in there vcard for avatar conversion to work?
  163. lovetox is this intended? why not just interpret no photoelement as <photo/>
  164. lovetox or did the XEP author foget about the "Delete a photo" usecase
  165. lovetox and this sentence reflects only setting a avatar other than none
  166. lovetox ^ Daniel
  167. Daniel yes the XEP doesn’t cover deletion
  168. Daniel yet
  169. flow pep., see also the security section of xep359
  170. pep. Right, so that's settled then
  171. flow MattJ, xep359 already has that requirement that IDs do not leak inve, hence i was supprised to find that section in xep313
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  187. MattJ pep.: "unique and stable" is not enough
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  190. MattJ We've already seen security issues from far simpler and more obvious problems, it's not enough to say that a sentence in a separate document covers us
  191. pep. MattJ, see what was said above
  192. pep. 0359 mandates more than that
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  195. pep. - the IDs defined in this extension MUST be unique and stable within the scope of the generating XMPP entity - Entities observing the value MUST NOT be able to infer any information from it - The value of 'id' MUST be considered a non-secret value.
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  198. pep. (obviously, "MUST NOT be able to infer any information from it" is only practical to some extent, but that wouldn't be an issue for MAM would it)
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  202. Ge0rG I suggest to introduce a new stanza element, <mam-id>, that is not leaking any information.
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  206. Ge0rG With a "MUST NOT be equal to any of the other id elements or attributes of the message" requirement.
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  264. MattJ Can't tell if sarcasm
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  274. Zash In https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0398.html#presence it's implied but not explicitly stated that the server should leave empty <photo/> elements alone. Why is that? (poke Daniel)
  275. Daniel Iirc to give clients the option to join w/o avater
  276. Daniel Not that it really makes sense. But I think that was the intention behind it
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  283. Zash Some clarification there would be good I think
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  293. Daniel Quick update on the IM regulation. I just (accidentally) talked to someone who was on the SPD's (major party in Germany) digital working group thing. And it was her that Katharina barley asked in 2018 about IM regulation. And she contacted the CCC who was like "mhh we don't really know". And now it's apparently dead because according to her the SPD is not in a functional state right now
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  296. Daniel Cc Ge0rG
  297. pep. What was that article then a week ago? :/
  298. Daniel dunno. i mean it did not have any sources. maybe it was old sources
  299. Daniel or just made up
  300. pep. k
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  303. Daniel also she asked for me contact information and i wrote down my website and my email address and then she asked for my phone number because she doesn’t write email; and under pressure I couldn’t remember it (why do people think that 10 random numbers are a good ID) - i gues s i need a business card
  304. pep. "why do people think that 10 random numbers are a good ID" haha, I agree, and that's not even because of the infamous Zooko.
  305. Ge0rG Daniel: did you take her phone number at least?
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  311. Daniel Ge0rG, no. it felt more like a "don’t call us we call you" situation
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  314. Ge0rG Daniel: that's a bit sad.
  315. Daniel last time i tried to talk to a politician she offered to take a selfie with me
  316. pep. "PR, PR, PR"?
  317. Ge0rG Daniel: looks like you learned the hard way how modern politics work...
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  321. fippo daniel: maybe she wanted the phone number to contact you via signal? :-p
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