XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2019-10-10


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  249. flow Ge0rG, do we really want to add a deferred xep with a likely namespace bump in the future to the compliance suites?
  250. Ge0rG flow: which one?
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  356. ralphm bangs gavel
  357. ralphm 0. Welcome
  358. ralphm Who do we have?
  359. nyco _o/
  360. MattJ o/
  361. ralphm Guus, Seve?
  362. Guus ola
  363. ralphm Hi!
  364. ralphm 1. Minute taker
  365. ralphm Would be good to have one again, since we have had no minutes for a few meetings now.
  366. LNJ has joined
  367. nyco I can't today, sorry...
  368. nyco I'd love to automate that minutes process like we could each one of us have two windows open: 1. this chat 2. a real-time collaborative text editor... then we would each and all be responsible
  369. ralphm Would be happy to try.
  370. nyco I've used that way of doing in many places: awesome for the agenda huge for misunderstanding reduction excellent for winning some time (no one has to review/rewrite/refaco notes afterwards)
  371. MattJ Sorry, I tend to have meetings back-to-back after this one at the moment
  372. ralphm Right
  373. Guus WE have the logs.
  374. ralphm Logs are insufficient, of course.
  375. nyco long and hard to read
  376. Guus no-one apparently finds minutes worth the trouble
  377. Guus so logs are what we have.
  378. nyco that's too much work with collab text editing, the load is balanced by the number of participants
  379. ralphm I don't think that's an acceptable stance towards our membership, to be honest.
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  382. nyco agree, we should deliver better than the logs
  383. Guus then memberhip should step up. We can stop doing these meetings if you feel strong about it.
  384. ralphm Ideally, we'd have an appointed scribe for all our meetings, but I'm ok with trying out nyco's suggestion for now.
  385. ralphm I'm moving on in the meanwhile.
  386. Seve Here, sorry
  387. nyco and I'd timebox meetings...
  388. nyco ok, let's try today?
  389. ralphm nyco: I try to keep them within 30 min.
  390. ralphm 2. Badge Design
  391. nyco https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/2019-10-10-XSF-board-o5Yl05hJfT?lang=fr
  392. ralphm I've contacted Robert Martinez on this, hope he responds before next meeting.
  393. Guus Thanks
  394. ralphm 3. Review of Roadmap Page
  395. ralphm I have looked at this really old page again.
  396. ralphm Oddly enough, some of the items are still a bit current.
  397. nyco please help me on: https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/2019-10-10-XSF-board-o5Yl05hJfT?lang=fr
  398. ralphm E.g. the part on Jabber Identifiers (PRECIS) came up again a few weeks ago
  399. ralphm From the few responses on the XMPPWG mailinglist over at IETF, it seems there's not really a solution for this yet.
  400. ralphm My own topics that I think could be on a roadmap page are:
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  403. ralphm 1) Work on the things I recently blogged about regarding references, reactions, etc, and how that could be handled with MAM
  404. ralphm 2) Calling in the new(ish) reality of multiple devices that aren't always connected, but still would want to receive calls.
  405. Guus Ralph, instead of defining a roadmap (that's an XSF roadmap, not a board roadmap), we might want to discuss topic candidates on the member list?
  406. ralphm 3) e2ee. I think we need to make clear here what things are covered (plain body, full stanza) and which are not (e.g. meta data).
  407. Ge0rG ralphm: that sounds like a Council roadmap actually ;)
  408. ralphm Ge0rG: it does, maybe, I am listing what I think could be on it, I'm sure the Council has opinions, and I've also sent a message to Dave on this earlier today.
  409. Ge0rG ralphm: XEP-0423 comes with a "Future Development" section that's looking for content, deadline is next Wednesday for an LC request, November 5th for Draft
  410. Seve Are we discussing the content of the roadmap, or if we want to have a roadmap?
  411. ralphm Guus: I'm just following the agenda, the items above haven't really been handled for weeks, and I did some work on it
  412. ralphm Guus: I don't intend to make a full discussion on it today, just share what I have so far
  413. ralphm Seve: probably both
  414. Ge0rG ralphm: if you are motivated, please contribute in https://github.com/xsf/xeps/compare/master...ge0rg:cs2020?expand=1 / https://github.com/ge0rg/xeps/tree/cs2020
  415. Seve I see
  416. ralphm Ge0rG: thanks
  417. Ge0rG I think the XSF or Board roadmap should be different from the XMPP protocol roadmap, though
  418. Ge0rG XSF Roadmap should include marketing, org topics, sprint planning etc.
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  421. Guus I think it can include anything that we feel significantly benefits the XSF or XMPP.
  422. ralphm Right
  423. Guus if an important goal is to have a specific XEP published, I don't mind it being on that roadmap.
  424. Ge0rG also compliance badges.
  425. ralphm I'm not interested in individual specs per se, but more like: we should have a solution for things like references (e.g.)
  426. nyco and our emoji character
  427. ralphm and then see how we can achieve that
  428. pep. I agree with Ge0rG that xsf roadmap is different from protocol roadmap
  429. Ge0rG Guus: I'm not trying to protect my turf here, but I think that we get less done by mixing up the different bodies of the XSF
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  431. nyco yes, protocol != xsf
  432. ralphm pep.: well, so far it hasn't. We could change that, of course, but I'm not sure, really.
  433. nyco so everything related to SCAM, commTeam, iTeam included
  434. Guus Ge0rG putting something on a roadmap does not imply that other bodies are suddenly working on something.
  435. Ge0rG I agree that we should have a high-level protocol strategy defined by Board + Council, though
  436. Guus let's come to some kind of actionable conclusion here
  437. Ge0rG yes please
  438. nyco in relation with the IETF, and probably other standards bodies
  439. MattJ I definitely believe the Board should be able to set high-level goals that can guide Council
  440. ralphm We are still primarily a standards organisation, and of course those things mentioned by nyco need to be addressed, and could /also/ be on it.
  441. MattJ and that has happened in the past regularly
  442. ralphm Right
  443. dwd I'd note in passing that Council has zero power, as defined in our documents, so actuate any of these roadmap initiatives.
  444. ralphm Guus: well, the action I had was reviewing it, and I did
  445. Guus We've danced around 'priorities' and 'roadmap' often. I'm not against someone simply providing a PR with a suggested roadmap update, and for everyone to provide feedback on that.
  446. MattJ But e.g. the goal would be "End-to-end encryption", it's Council's reponsibility to decide whether that's OMEMO that gets put into the Compliance Suite
  447. ralphm dwd: indeed, so that's another reason it is also a Board topic
  448. MattJ +1
  449. nyco for how long have we not done "official" interop testing? that could help OMEMO implementations, btw
  450. ralphm I personally think it would be good to stimulate development in certain areas. Maybe with small scale topic-specific get-to-gathers, or something, to get things moving.
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  452. Ge0rG Board could assign some resources to do official interop testing. Also to making our wiki mobile-ready finally.
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  454. pep. ralphm: "sprints"?
  455. ralphm (I meant /protocol/ development, really, but having implementations is good too of course)
  456. nyco sprints are awesome so far, we could use more focus and some sort of direction, indeed
  457. Guus 5 minutes left.
  458. ralphm Good to see various topics raised here. I'll take that make and see if I can create a comprehensive list from it.
  459. ralphm ^make^back
  460. Ge0rG ralphm: ๐Ÿ‘
  461. nyco the list can be collected here, though: https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/2019-10-10-XSF-board-o5Yl05hJfT?lang=en
  462. Guus thanks
  463. ralphm 4. Board & Council elections
  464. ralphm So we're having them soonish, and we need (more) candidates.
  465. Seve To have a roadmap, we need to have some sort of commitment for it. I think having a global XSF roadmap is good, I would first think about what do we want to fit in the roadmap and check after if we need to split it into two (XSF/protocol) or not
  466. ralphm I personally think it would be great to have people on Board who are not directly involved with protocol or software development.
  467. Guus Sign up here: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2019
  468. nyco +1
  469. ralphm I do not yet have anyone in mind.
  470. nyco businessy people, yes or marketingy people
  471. nyco I second that opening
  472. ralphm Well, we've always been open in that regard, just recently haven't seen candidates in that regard.
  473. Ge0rG ralphm: isn't it better to look for people who are competent at PM, rather than for people who are incompetent at XMPP? ;)
  474. nyco PM?
  475. Ge0rG project management
  476. dwd Project Management.
  477. nyco wat
  478. nyco could have been Product Management as well
  479. ralphm Ge0rG: oh, I meant 'not necessarily involved'.
  480. ralphm But having a broader scope is always interesting.
  481. nyco people who are incompetent at XMPP are very, very, like very valuable to us!
  482. nyco we could use those profiles to greatly simplify our "message"
  483. Ge0rG nyco: but that shouldn't be a requirement for runnung for Board
  484. MattJ At some level I find this quite amusing
  485. nyco indeed
  486. ralphm So, I'd like to ask anyone currently on Board or on the floor, to think about this, and maybe provide suggestion to me.
  487. Ge0rG ralphm: suggestion of potential board candidates?
  488. Guus time
  489. MattJ I shall definitely give it some thought
  490. Seve ralphm, are you thinking about some specific skills?
  491. ralphm Ge0rG: we're not limiting applications in any way. There's still an election of course, and we already have candidates that have run before.
  492. ralphm Ge0rG: yes
  493. nyco new blood is cool as well
  494. ralphm Seve: not really
  495. david has joined
  496. ralphm 5. AOB
  497. Ge0rG as I said, "project management" is a good skill to have.
  498. ralphm ?
  499. Guus We need more focus in these meetings
  500. Ge0rG maybe also "has an hour or two per week for Board matters"
  501. nyco not forcefilly PM
  502. Guus and/or have more than 30 minutes
  503. ralphm Guus: we're already at AOB?
  504. Guus we're not getting our item list done
  505. nyco or really commit and engage
  506. Guus I'm raising that as an AOB item ๐Ÿ™‚
  507. ralphm And if we didn't spend valuable time at the 'minute taker' item, then we'd have more time to discuss things.
  508. ralphm Ah
  509. nyco I'll propose a solution on the "minute taker" problem for next week
  510. Guus we've had a couple of trello cards on there for weeks, without addressing them.
  511. ralphm Guus: and we addressed them today, yay.
  512. nyco agree, we don't consume cards fast enough
  513. ralphm Many of the other items are awaiting feedback
  514. Seve Maybe we can be more async?
  515. ralphm But point taken.
  516. ralphm Sure, we can still do stuff on the board list. particularly around financials
  517. Guus I think we should strive to discuss less details in meetings - unsure how that works out in practice though.
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  519. nyco async would be added capacity, indeed but needs more organisation, commitment, engagement
  520. peter has joined
  521. nyco details arise in meetings, so let's set them free to expand
  522. ralphm Ok, so let's all review the topics on the trello board and see how we can cross them off
  523. Guus I disagree. I think we should use meetings to plan for discussion/processing of details, not to handle them.
  524. ralphm I'm sorry, but didn't we do just that?
  525. Guus as a for example: we discussed items to be put on a roadmap, instead of 'how do we update the roadmap'
  526. nyco Seve is right about async work, or out-of-meeting progress
  527. Guus there's a lot of things that we could do more abstract in these meetings, if we plan the legwork outside of these meetings.
  528. Seve My phabricator comment was about this exactly. Trying to find a way we improve as a team. I do feel we need more time to discuss (not in meetings but in general at least)
  529. Guus Like nyco said, that takes additional work though
  530. ralphm How to update the roadmap doesn't need a discussion, what's on it does and I'm glad we discussed it.
  531. nyco once again I agree with Seve that ideation happens during meetings, in real-time sync
  532. ralphm right
  533. MattJ However it may make sense to have separate meetings for deeper discussions around various topics
  534. nyco ah, good idea
  535. MattJ 30 minutes is often not enough to cover one topic in detail
  536. MattJ and that happens quite often, it seems
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  539. MattJ We spend >90% of the meeting time discussing one thing
  540. ralphm MattJ: ok, we can maybe plan ahead to extend a next meeting for a specific topic
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  542. ralphm I usually reserve a 1 hour slot for this meeting
  543. MattJ As mentioned earlier I don't have room in my schedule to expand this meeting in its current timeslot, but sure, I agree in principle
  544. ralphm but try to keep it within 30min, to cater for the possibility a topic needs more time
  545. MattJ I did also, and will endeavour to return to that, but not for at least the next few weeks
  546. ralphm noted
  547. ralphm Thanks Guus for raising this
  548. peter has left
  549. ralphm 6. Date of Next
  550. ralphm +1W?
  551. Guus I can not make it next week.
  552. Guus but don't let thta stop you
  553. ralphm Oh, right it is vacation for me, too.
  554. nyco +1
  555. ralphm So I might not make it either
  556. ralphm Maybe skip one?
  557. nyco sure
  558. Guus Depends on the remaining three ๐Ÿ™‚
  559. Guus I"ll definately not make it.
  560. ralphm +2W then
  561. nyco please review before you go: https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/2019-10-10-XSF-board-o5Yl05hJfT?lang=en
  562. Seve I should be available next week if nothing happens, but it all depends on what do we need to discuss, I guess
  563. ralphm Let's try to indeed do some homework before the next meeting.
  564. ralphm And review the pad by nyco
  565. Seve Sounds good!
  566. ralphm 7. Close
  567. ralphm Thanks all!
  568. ralphm bangs gavel
  569. Seve Good meeting, thank you and have some nice vacation :)
  570. ralphm Seve: ๐Ÿ‘Š
  571. Guus tx
  572. nyco thx all, bye
  573. nyco oh and New Vector (Matrix) has raised 8.5M
  574. ralphm Yes, that's great news for them.
  575. nyco yep, they've proven consistency, they're rewarded
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  578. Ge0rG We should found a start-up company called "New Zimpy" to acquire funding for pushing forward our implementations.
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  586. flow Ge0rG, jingle file transfer
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  588. Daniel we are going to bump jingle ft?
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  592. Ge0rG flow: so you are saying it is a bad idea to implement Jingle-FT?
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  594. Ge0rG for CS-2020, I don't care much about the state of the XEP, but rather about what implementors need to consider
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  596. Daniel It depends on what message you want to convey
  597. Daniel Note also that if you 'require' jingle ft 3 or 4 clients will have a chance at making that
  598. Daniel If you require both http upload and jingle I think you are down to 2-3
  599. Daniel Not that this should stop you
  600. Daniel But be aware of that
  601. Ge0rG Daniel: that's an interesting point. Should we have "optional" features?
  602. Daniel And it's not like other clients will implement jingle over night
  603. Daniel Optional features defeat the purpose
  604. Daniel There are already profiles
  605. Ge0rG Daniel: you mean the compliance suite Levels, or something different?
  606. Ge0rG Do we need a new one? "Core", "Advanced" and "Super Plus"?
  607. Daniel that would make more sense than having optional features
  608. Daniel (not that i like having super plus; but it still makes more sense than optional features)
  609. Ge0rG Daniel: I agree on that
  610. pep. You can include a "Gajim level" somewhere in there
  611. pep. (just teasing :p)
  612. Daniel i mean if you make jingle part of it i think Gajim and Conversations will be the only clients to make advanced im
  613. Ge0rG I don't want to overengineer that CS, so I'd rather force some clients to fall from Advanced to Core right now.
  614. Daniel (they might already?)
  615. Ge0rG I have no idea.
  616. Daniel poezio is probably still in the race
  617. Daniel but you lose it if you include jingle
  618. pep. I'm not worried about poezio dropping from the race
  619. Ge0rG with libcaca avatars?
  620. pep. Ge0rG, tct!
  621. Ge0rG pep.: I can't bother to remember the implementation details
  622. Daniel yes it's not a race
  623. Daniel but CS2020 should set some realistic goals maybe?
  624. pep. Ge0rG, https://mpv.io/manual/master/#video-output-drivers-tct
  625. Ge0rG is it realistic to have a client that can't send files if you are on j.c.d?
  626. Ge0rG I'd add XEP-0379 and Bookmarks2 if I wasn't being realistic.
  627. Daniel you have that with http upload
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  629. pep. j.c.d?
  630. Ge0rG Daniel: you don't have that on j.c.d
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  632. Ge0rG jabber.ccc.de
  633. Daniel fair enough. i ignored the part of your sentence that i was unable to parse
  634. pep. fwiw, poezio is already not a core client, we don't do direct invites, so it's already out of the race
  635. Daniel if you wanted to that would be easier to add than jingle ft
  636. pep. It certainly makes sense to have it in some use-cases, but it doesn't to get back into the race :)
  637. pep. (read: I wouldn't mind implementing it, but I need a proper use-case. Also, we have more urgent/important things to fix in poezio.. (and that's not OMEMO))
  638. Ge0rG after all, CS-2020 is not about a client pissing contest.
  639. pep. (the OMEMO bit isn't directed at you Daniel)
  640. Ge0rG pep.: fix MAM finally.
  641. pep. please?
  642. Ge0rG pep.: fix MAM finally, _please_.
  643. pep. :)
  644. Ge0rG ๐Ÿ˜
  645. Daniel i've observed muc implementations in the wild that donโ€™t send mediated invites if the person is already a member
  646. Daniel meaning re-invite doesnโ€™t work
  647. pep. interesting
  648. Daniel that's when Conversations falls back to direct invite
  649. Daniel i didnโ€™t want to hunt down the bug; just switched over
  650. Ge0rG that's evil
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  653. Ge0rG Daniel: those are the little gems of tribal knowledge that should be written down somewhere on our wiki
  654. Ge0rG and linked from the XEP
  655. pep. Right, Category:Errata or sth.
  656. pep. Or remarks
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  658. Ge0rG https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages isn't even a category
  659. Ge0rG oh, it's in https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XEP-Remarks/XEP-0045:_Multi-User_Chat
  660. pep. https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XEP_and_RFC_Remarks talking about this
  661. Ge0rG good that the wiki search doesn't find that if you search for "0045"
  662. pep. Ge0rG, you had an example of category btw?
  663. pep. can't remember
  664. Ge0rG also great that it links to "[Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: Buddycloud Channels" in the archive
  665. Ge0rG pep.: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Special:Categories and especially https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/index.php?title=Category:Interop
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  667. pep. Ok
  668. Daniel https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XEP-Remarks/XEP-0363:_HTTP_File_Upload <= that never made it into my inbox
  669. Daniel i would have loved to 'fix' that
  670. Daniel but now bumping NS for that doesnโ€™t seem worth it
  671. Ge0rG yeah
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  676. Ge0rG Daniel: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XEP-Remarks/XEP-0045:_Multi-User_Chat#Mediated_MUC_Invitations
  677. pep. https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XEP-Remarks/XEP-0313:_Message_Archive_Management Maybe this could use more context :x
  678. zach has left
  679. pep. "Missing "Give the the last N messages starting from the oldest" query" as a title
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  682. Ge0rG flow: you authored it... โซ
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  685. pep. https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/index.php?title=Category:Spec_Remarks hmm. I'm not sure how useful that was though, considering everything is already on the same page.
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  687. pep. Also apparently there's a XEP category already.
  688. pep. Which is exactly that, I guess I'll move that over
  689. Ge0rG pep.: we could also move the "XEP and RFC Remarks" page into the category, then people would get redirected to the automatic list, even with it being less nice looking
  690. pep. redirected? What magic do you need for that
  691. Ge0rG pep.: I did it with https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/index.php?title=Easy_XMPP&redirect=no - `#REDIRECT [[:Category:Easy XMPP]]`
  692. Ge0rG pep.: IIRC you must be wiki admin to move pages, though
  693. Zash Forbidden dark Mediawiki magic?
  694. Ge0rG Incantations that will make your fingers fall off.
  695. Ge0rG or your ears. or your eyes. depending on which way they go
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  697. Ge0rG So whom do I need to bribe to finally make https://github.com/xsf/mediawiki-docker/issues/2 happen?
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  710. flow Ge0rG, not all, we need implementations of experimental XEPs, I am just not sure if a XEP mentioned in the compliance suite should have a certain amount of stability, or if it's just a pointer to the "next thing"
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  713. flow if compliance suites are supposed to point to the current state of the art, which experimental XEPs probably count as, then it shouldn't be included. If they are the map of the xep jungle, pointing out which xeps are (probably) ahead on the road, then you could and should include jingle file-transfer.
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  715. Ge0rG flow: there is the "Future Development" section for next things. XEPs in the CS should have some stability, and they should provide functionality needed by users
  716. Ge0rG the CS isn't about XEP status politics
  717. flow Compliance suites could also be both, but then it should be probably marked which xeps are currently considered stable and which ones are the next big thing
  718. Ge0rG Jingle-FT has been there for over a decade, and I don't see any alternative to it
  719. flow is there a rendered version of the proposed compliance suites somewhere?
  720. Ge0rG flow: XEP stability is orthogonal to what users expect from a client
  721. Ge0rG flow: https://op-co.de/tmp/xep-0423.html
  722. flow sure, but I also have the poor developers in mind
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  724. Ge0rG poor developers using the wrong MAM namespace? :D
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  727. Daniel > Jingle-FT has been there for over a decade, and I don't see any alternative to it Yet we are only slowly reaching a point where we have compatible implementations that are somewhat reliable in exchanging files
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  741. mathieui pep., poezio certainly does direct invites (if you mean 0249 by that)
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  743. lskdjf Ge0rG, IMHO User Name Coloring should not be mandated by the compliance suite. If there is a client that does all the cool things but generates avatars similar to github or slack (patterns instead of single colors), that should not keep it from beeing an advanced xmpp client. Or really, if I don't want to color the names/avatars at all. It's a design thing and should be part of client diversity and choice. If you go that way you could as well mandate that clients have to do a conversation list instead of a roster for "consistency".
  744. Ge0rG lskdjf: I'm sure that the Conversation list will become a thing in a year or two, and then will be added to CS
  745. Ge0rG lskdjf: also nothing prevents your smart pattern avatar generator from applying the same color as other clients do
  746. !XSF_Martin I found lskdjf is having a valid point.
  747. Ge0rG Is our goal to appease client developers or to make XMPP finally suitable for normal people?
  748. Ge0rG lskdjf: you are making a valid point indeed, but I disagree with that. Feel free to bring that up on standards@ and get more people behind you
  749. !XSF_Martin I as a partly normal person am happy with my terminal not looking like a rainbow when chatting. ๐Ÿ˜ƒ
  750. lskdjf Ge0rG, where does the "mandate the UI" end? when all clients look the same? there are different users and different use cases. Not everyone is happy with the same thing. many people actually like a roster, and they have a valid point. and if there's a client that provides them with a roster, that's good and not less XMPP-compatible.
  751. Ge0rG I'm not going to get convinced, but sufficient negative feedback could certainly make me remove it again
  752. Ge0rG lskdjf: I'm not saying "get rid of the roster", I'm saying "support an automatic synchronization of your open conversations over all clients"
  753. !XSF_Martin I don't really see nickname colors as a usability but more as theming.
  754. Ge0rG lskdjf: if the user wants to disable it, well, let them
  755. lskdjf > I'm saying "support an automatic synchronization of your open conversations over all clients" As a client you don't need that if you only offer a roster, though
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  758. Ge0rG lskdjf: well, then you aren't an advanced but just a core client. Live with it
  759. lskdjf Ge0rG, why? because some people think my preference in UI isn't the "correct" one?
  760. Ge0rG lskdjf: no, because your UI preferences make it harder for users to migrate between xmpp clients
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  762. lskdjf mh I don't agree with your view on what the job of the compliance suite is. but you already said you won't be convinced.
  763. lskdjf Ge0rG, another point I have is that I'd like to suggest to only mandate vcard-temp for advanced IM clients.
  764. Ge0rG lskdjf: I'm not even sure why it's in core.
  765. lskdjf I also wouldn't mind seeing it removed ๐Ÿคท๏ธ
  766. Ge0rG I'm not an expert on vCard specs
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  769. pep. what's the story behind the NS format (changes) btw? jabber:x:foo, https://jabber.org/protocol/foo, urn:xmpp:foo
  770. Zash jabber: is from before people learned how xmlns is supposed to work
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  772. Zash urn:xmpp: is after IETF standardization
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  774. pep. And the awkward one in the middle?
  775. pep. people experimenting?
  776. Zash That's acceptable behavior
  777. fippo if you don't have a urn for a namespace, you can use a url you control
  778. Zash I'm personally a fan of xmpp: URIs as xmlns ๐Ÿ™‚
  779. pep. Yeah I also like that :)
  780. Zash `xmpp:prosody.im/whatever` eg
  781. fippo zash: but you need to stay in control of prosody.im forever. for urn:xmpp the iana is in control and going to be around for longer :-)
  782. Zash fippo, same applies to http://jabber.org
  783. pep. fippo, as a temporary solution
  784. Zash fippo, aren't we (the XSF) in control of urn:xmpp:* tho?
  785. Zash urn:uuid: is cool too, but somewhat verbose
  786. pep. Ge0rG, I'm kind of duplicating work that was already done on the wiki with that category :/
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  788. pep. But I'll take the opportunity to unify all of it
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  790. pep. Who do I need to bribe to become a wiki sysops btw
  791. fippo zash: the iana delegated the subnamespace to the xsf registrar
  792. Zash fippo, so we're in control. or can they un-delegate it? if so, it's no different than DNS based URIs?
  793. Ge0rG pep.: iteam
  794. fippo zash: hrm, rfc 8141 doesn't say whether the iana can undelegate. lets pester one of the authors? :-)
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  927. stpeter There is no undelegation or redelegation for URN namespaces. URN namespace assignments are permanent because the whole point of URNs is permanence. However, we did not explicitly mention this in RFC 8141.
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