XSF Discussion - 2019-10-17

Hey, looks like two XEPs were born last night

which one?

Message moderation and Message retraction

something for the newsletter?

Still needs editor work, they're in the inbox for now

Sure

pubsub/pep experts: Is it normal that I receive a notification twice on publication: http://paste.debian.net/1107636/ ?

No, I don't think so

are we gonna reach the quorum today?

anyone?

anyway, a contact just pointed me to: https://www.libremonde.org a fork of Matrix protocol

we should fork Matrix and move it to XML into TCP sockets

oh sh*t, good idea!

wait, what?

nyco, we didn't have a meeting today :) It was set to +2W

A *fork*? Ooookay

edhelas, only if we drop the whole idea of being a graph database synchronization protocol, simple message passing should be enough for every need.

Re Stickers, I'm reminded that https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0038.xml is a thing that exists

"the recent trend of using graphics" - that's funny

MattJ: I thought `@bob.xmpp.org` was just a fixed string that served no purpose whatsoever.

uh, maybe you're right

That does indeed seem a bit limiting, that you can't refer to data held by another entity

And based on scanning the examples in the RFC that defines cid: it's just a namespace

Better switch to ni://

aka https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6920

MattJ: Also, it'd be kinda bad to leak your JID to xmpp:bob.xmpp.org or whatever you put as authority there.

Choose: A) leak JID to sender-chosen XMPP entity B) leak IP address to sender-chosen HTTP server

Also deployment of a BoB proxy should be far easier than deployment of a (secure) HTTP proxy alongside every XMPP server

C) Steal Matrix thing where every server downloads and re-hosts every uploaded file?

Or D) Provide a proxy that knows how to handle some magic new URL by proxying to the original HTTP Upload service.

E) Declare that XMPP is for text chat, y'all gtfo with your graphics. Also let's go back to ASCII. 😛

why not just promote available packs via pubsub

also update of packs via pubsub

and clients can download the packs and use them from their server

servers should look by itself that they support the most common ones

and just communicate the hashes to other users

BoB over PubSub?

Actually, just BoB + extensive caching is probably good enough.

Let me tell y'all about Link Mauves mod_bob

Zash: you forgot F) Implement a content addressable URI scheme

Also a DHT and a torrent based distribution system.

Zash i think BoB does not cut it

yes it can transfer a sticker

but realisticly you want sticker packs

distributet by the server

you can use bob to transfer the hash

so maybe this could be its own XEP the distribution of the sticker packs

xep-0038 but modern?

yeah on pubsub, so server can notify clients if there are updates or new packs

then we use bob or something to reference the hash

What do we need sticker packs for if we can have 0392 colored Emoji?

and if its not found you can query the server for the the hash if he has a pack for that

Tho that doesn't solve all the privacy issues.

yeah what issue do you see?

i only communicate with my server

lovetox: you just invented copyright violation

How do I get to see the stickers?

Can I do that without talking to your server, which then learns my JID?

Assuming MUC or somesuch

Zash, either your server has a pack for that or you dont

yes, servers should sync packs themself

if your server just has no pack for that hash, you just cant display it

end of story

Ge0rG, nobody forces a server admin to distrubte packs that they are not allowed to

lovetox: so people switch to the server where the admin bought the most sticker packs?

maybe, if thats important to them

hey im just brainstorm here, im even to lazy to use a emoji, far away from using a sticker

That's the same incentive system as running a tor exit node

You don't need stickers if you just render Emoji large enough

😜

It seems I'm missing out on the stickers thread..

stickers exist because people dont want to be limited by the unicode consortium

https://upload.yax.im/upload/SSCgX4FLWhltBl0q/tempFileForShare_20191017-212752.jpg

i agree you could probably get away with that for some time

but at the end someone wants to introduce their own stickers

and then you have to tell them, not possible

I tell them: purpose to the unicode consortium!

lovetox, if you separate the distribution into its own thing (wasn't there a xep for file sharing already?) then this sounds a lot like xep-0038, ie a standardized zip file layout with icons/stickers in it

Zash this does only describe the pack format

i dont see anything about distribution

and also its ancient, not sure what we gain from reusing this

ancient doesn't have to mean bad (or good) but it doesn't hurt to make sure one at least triest to learn from previous attempts

and not having distribution is precisly why I wrote "if you separate the distribution into its own thing", ie it's not there, it needs to come from elsewhere or be invented

https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0329.xml

yeah but not needed

just publish a http link on pubusub

10 times easier than that

and i doubt servers will implement jingle for this

I though 329 was something in pubsub, but it seems not.

OOB or SIMS in PubSub or something like that