XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2019-11-25


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  184. nyco for this month, yes: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XMPP_Newsletter
  185. wurstsalat nyco, thanks!
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  216. jonas’ Alex, have you updated the mailing list memberships already?
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  227. Alex jonas’: no, I don't have the keys to them, requesting some help there
  228. jonas’ cc @ MattJ, Kev ^
  229. Kev Alex: If you mail me what mailing list changes you'd like done, I can update lists.
  230. Kev To my Isode address please.
  231. jonas’ ha fun
  232. Kev I'm on a train at the moment.
  233. Kev It is not conducive to such things.
  234. jonas’ dwd just now sent the mail I wanted to send, but without taking into account that the mailing lists aren’t updated yet
  235. Zash https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2019-11-21?p=h#2019-11-21-142285cb0e1824d2 tho
  236. Alex Thanks Kev, will mail you shortly, still in some meetings
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  301. Alex Kev: sent
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  380. Alex Memberbot is online for the Q4-2019 membership applications
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  383. jonas’ finally an easy election
  384. jonas’ there you go, first set of votes
  385. Alex 👍
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  568. Zash > The <text/> element [ in an <error> ] is OPTIONAL. [...] It SHOULD NOT be used as the error message presented to a human user This doesn't match current practice, and what else would you show users?
  569. jonas’ huh.
  570. jonas’ ah well, normally you’d know via the protocol what an error condition means and you should show that primarily
  571. jonas’ e.g. "MUC creation failed due to lack of permissions" for a <forbidden/>
  572. jonas’ and then you’d attach to that the <text/> from the peer I guess... in a "details" field
  573. jonas’ (without that use, the i18n of the <text/> does make zero sense at all)
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  584. lovetox of course you *could* do that
  585. lovetox but why should you? if the server already has a more detailed error message
  586. Zash I believe I've mentioned a wish for a reusable set of text strings for the various stanza errors
  587. Zash with translations
  588. lovetox and of course there is not exactly one error condition per server error
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  590. MattJ Personally I feel when I'm writing server code that I have a pretty good idea what text should be shown to the user when emitting an error (and it varies even within the same condition)
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  592. jonas’ I think the error text sent by the server should detail the "why", while the error text generated from the condition and the action should be the "what plus basic why"
  593. MattJ We could make custom "application specific" conditions for each instance of error, but the client would need to understand those and get some text from somewhere
  594. jonas’ in the example above, the server could say something like "Only users from domain X are allowed to create rooms"
  595. MattJ Previously clients have literally copy/pasted the error description text from each condition in the RFC and displayed that
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  597. Zash s/-/ / + title case gets you ... something
  598. lovetox yeah seems all really a workaround for not giving server developers the responsibility to formulate a basic englisch sentence
  599. jonas’ lovetox, plus all other languages.
  600. lovetox yeah and every client has thousands of strings to translate :)
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  602. Zash Hence why I think it would be nice to have some basic common strings and their translations
  603. jonas’ Zash, agreed
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  607. lovetox how would something like that look
  608. pep. To add to the previous discussion on our voting system, I knew something was off with the membership one as well. I can't vote blank :)
  609. jonas’ lovetox, a huge .po file
  610. Zash Pretty much
  611. Zash Some file(s) in some format with forbidden = Forbidden | Förbjudet | VERBOTEN | no u
  612. Zash etc
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  616. Zash Probably with some variants for eg conflict in MUC meaning something slightly different from conflict in IBR or in resource binding
  617. jonas’ pep., I agree that the voting could use some fixing. I’d go with some Schulze-like method (as suggested by flow) for council/board and add a way to abstain for member votes maybe. pep. would you shepherd this to get it into the Q1 membership meeting?
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  621. lovetox Zash, i have a hard time picturing this
  622. lovetox you want a mapping of error conditions to texts?
  623. lovetox with context
  624. Zash Pretty much
  625. lovetox and how are you then going to use that po file
  626. lovetox picking out the lines you need?
  627. lovetox or importing the full po file, even though there are many strings in it you never use
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  632. pep. jonas’, not in a state to answer (I'm a walking zombie, tired), but that's a secondary items I wanted to tackle yeah
  633. Zash That'd be up to you.
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  636. jonas’ (though importing the whole file is probably easier to maintain)
  637. Zash And how do you know you'll never use some strings? These are things remote entities can send.
  638. Zash I'm no expert on .po file management and I don't wanna focus on specific formats.
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  657. Zash Is there anything that says stream errors must only be sent in one direction?
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  662. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0178.html#s2s says to just close the TCP connection if the cert is unacceptable
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