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jubalh
I just saw in Profanitys code that it actually only sends request receipts if the capabilities of the other client support this. We had a similar discussion about LMC yesterday. So I think this is wrong and should actually always send them (if enabled) because we dont know which client the other user uses. Correct?
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Holger
+1
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jubalh
I will look out for more such cases now :)
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pep.
I'm quite torn with this "send everything anyway" policy tbh. I understand why, but then I feel that forces us to come with ugly "fallback" things that I don't like, "because some clients don't support what we send"
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jubalh
hmm but it wont hurt them?
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jubalh
It will just be some more data send and they wont parse it. and if they are connected with another client they still get the + there
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pep.
I'm not happy about the fallback things, not about the "too much" :P
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pep.
But that's also an argument for some I guess, "too much"
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jubalh
what do you mean by fallback?
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Zash
Having this feature negotiation was one of the big things that makes XMPP better than email. And now we apparently don't have it anymore :(
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MattJ
I know some kind of "user capabilities" was discussed at the summit (some kind of merging of device capabilities)
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MattJ
I'm not really a fan of that idea though
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Ge0rG
It would be great to be able to loudly proclaim that I'm incapable of OMEMO, no matter what some clients of me claim.
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MattJ
That's easily done today
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jonas’
is it?
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jonas’
because I want that
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jonas’
but LTIC it wasn’t possible because Conversations won’t trust anything the server could’ve said.
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pep.
You need to remove every keys yeah, and even then the sender needs to disable e2ee because it's on by default, otherwise they get a "Failed to send" or sth :/
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jonas’
and prevent clients from re-publishing keys
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jonas’
and prevent clients from using cached keys
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flow
that's the thing with e2ee, there is no way to disable it has been enabled once. at least not without making downgrade attacks easier
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flow
that's the thing with e2ee, there is no way to disable it, after has been enabled once. at least not without making downgrade attacks easier
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jonas’
I haven’t enabled it though.
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pep.
you "have", unwillingly :p
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Ge0rG
flow: did you just do LMC?
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jonas’
a client did that without asking me
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pep.
yeah that
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Ge0rG
jonas’: how dare you installing post-modern clients?
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jonas’
I’m not into non-consensual non-consensual stuff.
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Ge0rG
"no means no!"
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jonas’
Ge0rG, I needed multi-account support and stuff
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Ge0rG
there is a v6 fork, why not also a NOMEMO fork?
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dwd
jonas’, Should we be doing anything with XEP-0429, like Last Calling it?
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jonas’
dwd, yes most definitely
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jonas’
lost track of that one
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jonas’
can you add it to the SoD?
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dwd
jonas’, Done.
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jonas’
thx
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ralphm
Sorry, I have to skip today. Work.
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MattJ
No worries
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pep.
!
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flow
Ge0rG, no, my poezio-fu is not strong, I always assume that it does LMC if I just select the messagen from history, modify it and sent it✎ -
flow
Ge0rG, no, my poezio-fu is not strong, I always assume that it does LMC if I just select the message from history, modify it and sent it ✏
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flow
but I am learning
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Ge0rG
flow: it doesn't.
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Ge0rG
flow: I was actually worried that you used a client that generates LMCs that neither of my clients can parse
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pep.
Trello has nothing for us, I still haven't sent stuff I wanted to discuss (my fault, and I don't want to hijack board meetings to discuss new ideas, that goes on list.), I guess this meeting if it happens is going to be quick
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pep.
Seve, Guus?
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MattJ
I'm fine with skipping
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Guus
connectivity issues
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pep.
A wild Seve appeared a few minutes ago in another channel.
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Guus
my internet connection is flaky
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Guus
I don't mind skipping a week
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Seve
Yes, sorry
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Seve
Very much on the same page as you guys
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pep.
Nothing to add to the agenda then?
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Seve
Thanks for the ping pep. Btw :)
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pep.
Ok. See you next week. /me warps back into the nothingness
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Ge0rG
nothinglessness?
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winfried
Has anyone played with this: https://products.office.com/en/business/microsoft-kaizala or analysed it? I spoke a representative of Microsoft Netherlands and he told it is a recently acquired by MS and that it is XMPP based. He seems to be willing to start an internal lobby in MS to give it an external XMPP interface.
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MattJ
Not familiar with it, no
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Ge0rG
winfried: apparently it's included in my o365 subscription, and the first thing it asks for is my mobile number
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winfried
Ge0rG: :-s listening to the discussion I already had the impression they would some strange things with identity....
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winfried
I don't have an o365 subscription, so I couldn't test / debug it...
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Ge0rG
I'm not sure I should try it.
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moparisthebest
didn't microsoft just kill their (already optional) xmpp interface for "skype for business"
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dwd
moparisthebest, That was, IIRC, hanging about primarily to support mandatory XMPP usage inside US (and other ) militaries.
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moparisthebest
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/skypeforbusiness/migration/migrating-xmpp-federation
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moparisthebest
> The XMPP functionality is no longer available and is deprecated in Skype for Business Server 2019.
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winfried
moparisthebest: probable, the representative wasn't sure if the higher gods would decide to rewrite kaizala to something non-XMPP :-(
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dwd
I wonder what the API and action card stuff looks like.
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Ge0rG
winfried: first thing the app asks for is phone book access.
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Ge0rG
it looks a bit like Conversations. But maybe all IM apps do?
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winfried
Ge0rG: *sigh* they are all the same... https://github.com/M66B/XPrivacyLua/blob/master/README.md
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winfried
Ge0rG: thanks for looking BTW...
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Ge0rG
winfried: they have some really interesting (read: weird) social aspects. You can not create a group without access to the phonebook.
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Ge0rG
There are three ways to find existing groups: by your location (nearby); by QR code and by a numeric(?) code
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Ge0rG
oh, public groups are in the "discover" tab
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winfried
Ge0rG: I guess they use the phone number as some kind of user id. An idea that was fortunately rejected already. :-D
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Ge0rG
winfried: looks like they are indeed.
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Ge0rG
there are 4.5k users in the Office 365 tech room
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Ge0rG
I'm pretty sure they aren't using MUC for that
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winfried
Interesting!
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Ge0rG
Also looks like many Indians in there. And things like "how do I get rid of this group" ;)
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winfried
It is build in India, became populair in India and China and was purchased by MS
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winfried
They want to have a whatsapp killer
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mohamad
🌷
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moparisthebest
flow: since quic supports network roaming across the same connection I'm not sure it'd make sense to smacks over it, I haven't put a ton of thought into it though
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Zash
MPTCP is apparently in the next Linux version, so maybe we can have that without reinventing the entire stack from scratch