-
moparisthebest
Do any servers support https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0078.html anymore?
-
moparisthebest
Or might it be worth resurrecting? Since TLS is required and everyone (https world) agrees basic auth is fine, and it doesn't suffer from the "never upgradeable" problems sasl does?
-
Ellenor Malik
sasl is downgrade resistant
-
moparisthebest
And upgrade proof
-
dwd
moparisthebest, You can get the same effect as XEP-0078 with PLAIN, and essentially the same speed with SASL2, though.
-
dwd
moparisthebest, And you get to choose more secure methods than PLAIN, as well.
-
moparisthebest
I'm not clear on what those are, I know about "channel binding" for instance, and iirc it's been broken before and such, but assuming not who cares anyway
-
moparisthebest
If every http application ever can live without it, what's the point
-
moparisthebest
Again, I understand not sending something plaintext across the network that can be used to login as you was absolutely critical when XMPP was written, TLS wasn't the norm then
-
moparisthebest
Is it valuable in a world where everything is TLS though?
-
dwd
HTTP applications often use OAuth, which can be done over SASL but not XEP-0078, for example.
-
moparisthebest
That's normally when you authenticate with a 3rd party service though right?
-
moparisthebest
Like, sign into this site with your GitHub account?
-
moparisthebest
Does anything in XMPP do that?
-
dwd
Yes. But that doesn't matter - point is that SASL is extensible, whereas XEP-0078 isn't.
-
dwd
And certainly some deployments seem to like having channel binding around, or not having plaintext password equivalents on the wire even with TLS in play.
-
Ellenor Malik
moparisthebest: SASL is the pinnacle
-
moparisthebest
Oh I get it's more extensible, it just seems 99% of the time the extra complexity and RTTs is not desirable
-
moparisthebest
Seems like 0078 should be the norm and sasl the exception nowadays I'm saying?
-
moparisthebest
My impression is this situation is similar to Direct TLS vs STARTLS
-
flow
moparisthebest, I think SASL PLAIN is the same (or at least close to xep78) in terms of complexity and round trips
-
flow
dwd, what's the benefit, besides feature discovery maybe, of "simple json" compared to xep335?
-
flow
and will I find an answer ot this question by carefully reading the simple json XEP?
-
dwd
I think so. How would a developer go about using 335? Would it involve more code than simple json?
-
dwd
The comparison isn't between simple json and raw 335, it's between simple json and stuffing json in directly into message bodies.
-
Daniel
Isn't the comparison between stuffing json anywhere and explaining people what the x in xmpp stands for?
-
dwd
Pretty much.
-
dwd
But I do understand that "Here is a protocol framework. Now off you go and design a protocol and implement it in multiple libraries" is quite a steep learning curve.
-
Ge0rG
HTTP REST is even less than a protocol framework.
- Ge0rG still isn't over that app downloading 780KB of HTML from Google Play on each launch just to check if it's up-to-date.
-
dwd
Ge0rG, Yes, but you just stuff JSON into named endpoints and you're done.
-
dwd
Ge0rG, And moreover, even if you do download 780k, it won't damage the network. Whereas stuffing JSON into <body/> does, since naive clients can't be used anymore.
-
Ge0rG
League of Legends used to stuff XML into the body, which of course was encoded.
-
dwd
Novel, at least.
-
Ge0rG
I think it's been in use a decade ago.
-
Ge0rG
> Release: October 27, 2009
-
ralphm
Ge0rG, there's no last-modified/etag check upon retrieval?
-
Ge0rG
ralphm: the code is straight from https://stackoverflow.com/a/36509726/539443
-
Ge0rG
It's surprising that almost none of the http client libraries actually supports local caching
-
Ge0rG
so you end up doing it manually, badly. if at all
-
ralphm
That's pretty terrible indeed.
-
ralphm
I.e. I can't get over how little people know about stuff like this, and always get this wrong.
-
ralphm
Especially when people were still doing RSS aggregators.
-
Ge0rG
Hey, encoding a bet on Google not changing their HTML into your app is also a rather dumb decision
-
Ge0rG
Luckily, the app's API designers were competent at least.
-
ralphm
I guess
-
MattJ
should iq type="get" *never* have side-effects?
-
MattJ
Because we have an example of such in... RFC 6121
-
MattJ
Requesting the roster "subscribes" you to roster pushes
-
Zash
Wat
-
larma
vanitasvitae: do XMPP libraries typically provide APIs to easily send arbitrary XML? I was under the assumption they don't make it that easy
-
MattJ
> If a connected resource or available resource requests the roster, it is referred to as an "interested resource". The server MUST send roster pushes to all interested resources.
-
MattJ
larma, totally depends on the library
-
vanitasvitae
larma: in Smack you could do it fairly easily I think
-
MattJ
Some are high level, and try to hide everything from you, some are low level and offer barely any XMPP stuff - some fall in between (you could say they fail at both)
-
vanitasvitae
Yeah, in Smack you can parse the XML into a "StandardExtensionElement" and append that to your messages.
-
larma
vanitasvitae: that isn't what I would call an easy API
-
vanitasvitae
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
-
vanitasvitae
PR welcome :P
-
pep.
MattJ, ugh (re roster). I can see why that's been done but that seems like breaking some assumptions indeed
-
larma
I just wonder how we are considering to add stream.send_json(to, json), when we don't have stream.send_xml(to, XML)
-
MattJ
It seems obvious that 99% of the time if you request the information you are also interested in changes to that information
-
pep.
That seems like a bold assumption to make. Especially since we have mechanisms to say we're interested in the data
-
Link Mauve
pep., they wouldn’t be atomic.
-
pep.
what do you mean
-
Link Mauve
pep., caps to your server may be known to your server long after you’ve requested the roster.
-
Link Mauve
In the meantime, you would miss roster pushes.
-
pep.
Seems like an edge-case no? Or maybe there's something missing for this kind of case (subscribing to data around bind)
-
MattJ
Atomic get-and-subscribe is quite an important operation to have
-
pep.
Yes but it this really what we want for iq type="get"? :x
-
pep.
Does that mean because I've requested somebody's version I want to know now everytime they change
-
MattJ
The XEP doesn't specify that behaviour, so no, it doesn't mean that
-
MattJ
It means instead that you have to poll if you ever do want that :)
-
dwd
larma, Most libraries let you send/receive arbitrary XML, in various ways that are individually reasonably sane. The problem is that they're all radically different from one another and involve a lot of implied knowledge to use well.
-
larma
Yeah, but we are we then not unifying/easying the use of custom XML in XMPP and instead only unify/ease the use of custom JSON in XMPP?✎ -
larma
Yeah, but why are we then not unifying/easying the use of custom XML in XMPP and instead only unify/ease the use of custom JSON in XMPP? ✏
-
dwd
larma, I can't think of a way to do that without essentially distilling it into "learn XMPP really good".
-
dwd
larma, Don't get me wrong; that's my preferred solution. I just think it's impractical.
-
larma
Why?
-
larma
Also, why is it required to learn xmpp really good for that?
-
Daniel
does anyone know of a thing that is an xmpp client on one end and a rest api on the other?
-
Daniel
with rest calls to send; and where you can put in (http) callbacks for notifications
-
Daniel
bot developers these days can’t be bothered to connect to anything not http
-
dwd
Daniel, Like the Prosody API, or XMPP-FTW?
-
Daniel
maybe. let me take a look
-
dwd
larma, I don't know where you'd start with trying to create a generic API. I got a lot of pushback for including the sketch in the original UDT.
-
dwd
Daniel, I don't know how maintained XMPP-FTW is, now. At one point it was heavily worked on by Lloyd, but he's moved onto other things and I don't know anyone else picked it up. It was, at one point, looking as if it'd merge the XML <-> JSON translations bits with stanza.io^Wjs.
-
larma
dwd: when searching for how to do custom XML in smack I found https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6387947/how-to-send-custom-xml-packet-using-javas-smack-api which basically says, "here is how you, but don't do it"
-
larma
It already starts with the requirement to define a namespace...
-
Daniel
dwd, yeah; probably something like mod_rest for prosody. probably a little less generic; and kinda scoped to one user (callbacks for just one user; not all users)
-
larma
dwd: can we at least agree that it should just be sending strings instead of json so that it can be any notation, or just strings, or base64 encoded binary, or ... Also that would allow libraries to not care about json at all (the current proposal requires libraries implementing it to at least include a json validator)
-
Zash
Daniel: Use case? Bots or something?
-
Daniel
Zash: yes bots
-
Zash
I'd like mod_rest to support that. Currently it's probably awkward unless you give the bot an entire domain
-
Daniel
Yes. Mod_rest isn't too far of from what we want to do. Except that. And except that we have only limited control over the server (don't ask) and are not running prosody
-
moparisthebest
that is generally my complaint with about every XMPP library I've ever used, they all make you jump through a series of hoops when I just want to send a String
-
Zash
Daniel: mod_component_client! (Connect Prosody as a 114 component to another XMPP server)
-
Link Mauve
Daniel, you also have mod_slack_webhooks, which AIUI lets Slack bots connect to Prosody.
-
Zash
moparisthebest: That's a good thing IMO. Pain to enforce well-formedness and stanza counting for 198 if you just get strings.
-
Daniel
Link Mauve: oh that might be interesting
-
Zash
We have a ton of variations of this, sending messages via http. mod_rest is kinda meant to be the one that does it all
-
Zash
I wonder i f this is something we wanna standardize tho, "HTTP based component/bot interface"
-
Link Mauve
This has been proposed at Summit, but other things took priority.
-
moparisthebest
Zash, so if you are building a client or, something serious it's a good thing, if you just want to experiment quickly not so much
-
moparisthebest
I tend to think they should be built in layers, bottom just deals with strings, slightly higher XML, over that you have your normal API that helps with things
-
Link Mauve
Oh, you actually meant printf XML?
-
pep.
larma, yeah I tend to agree with that. since it's really application specific I'm not sure why we'd restrict it to JSON, not sure why the library would fiddle with that
-
Zash
Sure, but I think you still wanna discourage people from sending raw strings too often.
-
pep.
And I don,t really see the point in specifying it anyway
-
moparisthebest
last night I was purposefully trying to send ridiculous things to see how servers would handle them for instance, ended up just not using any library because none of them had good support for this, so "testing" would be at least one use-case
-
pep.
moparisthebest, in any library it's possible to declare new tags to include as part of stanzas.. I am all for writing (better) documentation in libraries
-
Zash
I know in verse you can access the underlying socket and do whatever, but it's easy to compose arbitrary xml without reaching for strings
-
Zash
And prosody too
-
Daniel
Not just documentation. Also make it easier. The way slixmpp does it is horrible
-
Daniel
Where as prosody stuff is relatively easy to understand
-
pep.
Daniel, I don't disagree about slixmpp being horrible :)
-
Daniel
I mean for complex things prosody also gets in your way
-
Link Mauve
I usually found the declarative way in slixmpp (and in stanza.io and various other projects from Lance) to be quite good for extensibility.
-
Daniel
But for a simple I want to add a key value pair it's super easy
-
pep.
Link Mauve, fwiw I'm still confused when adding an ElementBase in slix
-
Link Mauve
Really? :/
-
pep.
"what attributes do I need again, and what do they do"
-
moparisthebest
https://github.com/moparisthebest/jDnsProxy/blob/master/xmpp-dox/src/main/java/com/moparisthebest/dns/xmpp/DnsIq.java#L41 java/smack isn't much better here
-
Daniel
The slack webhook thing is kinda nice
-
Daniel
I mean it's not exactly what we need. But it helps me understand the problem space better
-
Zash
MUC bots needing to actually join the relevant rooms is a bit awkward, the slack thing doesn't have that problem. But it's awkward in another direction instead IIRC
-
flow
> larma> I just wonder how we are considering to add stream.send_json(to, json), when we don't have stream.send_xml(to, XML) Probably because the data users want to send is already in json. And that does not mean that an API should (or can) not provide "sendXml(to, xml)"
-
Zash
send_whatever(to, mimetype, binary, data)
-
pep.
What Zash say
-
pep.
I personally don't want to include 42 parsers in my lib. Let the user validate themselves
-
pep.
Even though.. I'm not fond of the mimetype thing
-
pep.
I'd say s/mimetype/namespace/ :)
-
flow
> moparisthebest> that is generally my complaint with about every XMPP library I've ever used, they all make you jump through a series of hoops when I just want to send a String One of the first things Jive Software implemented in Smack ~20 years ago was an API to make that easy
-
flow
pep., I don't think including a parser is a necessary prerequisite for such an API
-
flow
Zash, binary *and* data?
-
Zash
flow: boolean for whether to base64 the data blob I guess
-
flow
ahh, is_binary (or so) then
-
pep.
isn't udt^WJSONthing requiring the JSON data to be validated? (well it does say "JSON", that means valid JSON)
-
Zash
(mod_rest has a thing for udt already)
-
flow
pep., if you are prepared to receive json, then you probalby have a json parser (and validator) already available,
-
moparisthebest
validation sounds like the recipient's problem :P
-
flow
I don't think I would bundle one with smack if I where to implement something like simple json
-
pep.
moparisthebest, if you implement that you implement both sides
-
pep.
I guess
-
moparisthebest
s/recipient/consumer of that json data/
-
pep.
In any case, I don't think all of this is necessary anyway..
-
larma
flow, if you don't validate that the string provided by the user is in fact valid JSON, one could argue that you are not standards compliant, because the json XEP clearly clarifies that what is in a <json> element MUST be valid JSON according to (insert reference to RFC here)
-
flow
larma, I didn't say that nobody should validate it. Just that it don't see it as strictly necessary to include a json validator in smack if I where to add support for something like simple json
-
moparisthebest
larma, is it the library's job to ensure anything sent using it is standards compliant? that sounds... very wrong?
-
moparisthebest
how do you develop new extensions then, for example
-
larma
moparisthebest, not in general, but when it provides a highly abstract API, like the send_json(to, data) I would expect it to only send standards compliant things on the wire
-
larma
I also expect it to escape my strings when I do send(to, body) with body = "x < pi &&", no?
-
flow
sure, but if you already ensure in a higher level that 'data' is valid json, then it only adds an unnecessary validation step if the library performs another check if data is json
-
moparisthebest
if the API lets me send a string I expect it to send exactly the bytes I tell it to
-
moparisthebest
if the API lets me send some XML object, then I expect that XML lib to do that kind of escaping
-
flow
I does not really hurt, but I don't see it a strict requirement for a library to perform that validation here
-
Kev
I suspect that's an unusual position. If would find it surprising if message->setBody(someString) required me to first escape somString.
-
moparisthebest
yea ^ that sounds like the second thing, some XML object that should be escaping things
-
flow
some goes for the receiving side
-
flow
also "escaping rules" != "validating something"
-
moparisthebest
if all xmpp client libs refuse to send non-valid things, how are we testing that server implementations deal with bad input correctly? (or are we?)
-
pep.
moparisthebest, I doubt allowing to send bad input is a good API
-
larma
Do you think it should be allowed to do send_json("test@example.com", "urn:example:type", "Nope, I don't do JSON here")? And on the recipient side it would just provide a string. So that if people don't want to do JSON they'll just end up using that method and we have an even worse problem as right now with JSON in body
-
pep.
You can have escape hatches for sure in the lib
-
pep.
But that shouldn't be the default
-
moparisthebest
well sure, completely agree there
-
Kev
At least for Swiften the idea is that stuff you send should largely be valid, and that there's an escape hatch for shoving octets onto the wire (which will break everything).
-
Kev
i.e. it makes it hard to do the Wrong Thing.
-
moparisthebest
sounds right, no argument there
-
Link Mauve
moparisthebest, I’d also expect a library implementing JSON to not take a raw string as input, but the language representation of the JSON thing (for instance a Python dict containing lists and other dicts and strings and such), so that the user of the library couldn’t do it wrong.
-
Link Mauve
Of course, the raw XML extension API wouldn’t do this validation, so you could send invalid JSON using it.
-
Ellenor Malik
Ryanair just screwed everything.
-
Ellenor Malik
Do I have to, like, hire Landor myself to come up with a new brand name for XMPP?
-
Link Mauve
Snikket it is.
-
Ellenor Malik
except that's not XMPP. That's a subset of XMPP
-
Link Mauve
How so?
-
Ellenor Malik
one could argue it's even a "proprietary" messenger.
-
Link Mauve
Good luck, but how?
-
moparisthebest
what? how could you argue that?
-
jonas’
Ellenor Malik, that’s bullshit.
-
jonas’
of course it’s a subset of XMPP. why would it need support for the IoT XEPs.
-
jonas’
and it’s all free and libre software, there’s nothing proprietary about it.
-
Ellenor Malik
"XMPP is not Snikket's focus."
-
jonas’
you misunderstood that
-
Ellenor Malik
https://www.reddit.com/r/xmpp/comments/f0el07/can_someone_explain_to_me_whats_the_point_of
-
jonas’
MattJ explained it in more detail here: https://old.reddit.com/r/xmpp/comments/f0el07/can_someone_explain_to_me_whats_the_point_of/fgto5h0/
-
jonas’
you know about that thread, so I’m assuming you are intentionally ignoring data
-
Ellenor Malik
> jonas’ has written: > of course it’s a subset of XMPP. why would it need support for the IoT XEPs. why do you need a whole-ass XEP for IoT anyway? the way you control IoT on IRC is just by a standard privmsg, and XMPP doesn't need to be any different
-
Link Mauve
Ellenor Malik, err, no.
-
moparisthebest
Ellenor Malik, my take is for developers that know to search "xmpp" there are numerous servers/clients/etc, for "users" that just want "to chat", that's what snikket seems to be targeting, it's still standard/interoperable/federating/open xmpp
-
Link Mauve
Encoding machine-readable stuff in the body would be utterly stupid.
-
Ellenor Malik
moparisthebest: the whitelabel clone of conversations is refusing to connect to under-compliant XMPP servers. to me that seems far too close to a proprietary system for anyone to be comfortable with it
-
Link Mauve
Ellenor Malik, you mean that your server didn’t implement XEP-0401 yet?
-
Link Mauve
That’s a complaint to direct to your server implementation, not to that client.✎ -
Link Mauve
That’s a complaint to direct to your server implementation, not to a client using it. ✏
-
Daniel
it's also not true
-
Daniel
i’m fairly certain that snikket would open xmpp:anyserver.tld?register
-
Daniel
not sure why you would want to use snikket with non snikket servers
-
Daniel
but if you wanted to you could
-
moparisthebest
if you know about non-snikket servers then snikket probably isn't for you
-
Daniel
The amount of bullshit and conspiracy theories that go around when ever someone - who has a well established record for working in the xsf - tries something new, is unbelievable
-
Daniel
Happened to me with Quicksy as well
-
jonas’
it’s almost as if people didn’t want XMPP to change to something successful
-
Ellenor Malik
it's almost as if refusing to connect to slightly behind the curve servers amounts to vendor lockin
-
jonas’
some call it vendor lock-in, others call "providing a decent UX in a federated system"
-
jonas’
take it or leave it, noones forcing you
-
jonas’
MattJ won’t make Snikket not federate.
-
jonas’
I’m rather confident in that.
-
moparisthebest
anecdotal quicksy story, was having an argument about why xmpp was superior to everything in an IRC channel recently, and they brought up how hard it was to install Conversations and know what a JID and a server etc was, get an account, compared to Signal where you just install it and it works
-
moparisthebest
I said "what about Quicksy" and got "oh, hadn't seen that before, looks really nice"
-
moparisthebest
another one brought over to the dark side >:)
- jonas’ puts some cookies on the table
-
Ellenor Malik
if you think I'm mentally ill now, try feeding me some cookies.
-
moparisthebest
I'm not personally going to use Quicksy or Snikket, I already have a setup I like, but I am VERY happy to recommend them to others that do not
-
Ellenor Malik
(don't)
-
Ellenor Malik
> jonas’ has written: > some call it vendor lock-in, others call "providing a decent UX in a federated system" the alternative is to prompt. "The presence server you have chosen does not support all of the features of Snikket. At this stage, you have three choices. Continue connecting, and experience marginally degraded functionality (you'll still be able to chat and join conferences), pick another server (and then the client can call a few web servers in a round-robin which can recommend a few servers based on geography), or, if you know the server administrator personally, flame them and tell them to upgrade to Snikket." > take it or leave it, noones forcing you Welcome to juntist Brazil. > MattJ won’t make Snikket not federate. > I’m rather confident in that. still, makes me uncomfortable
-
Daniel
Ellenor Malik: can you post a screen shot of the error message where it says you can't use a certain server?
-
Ellenor Malik
...
-
Ellenor Malik
i was providing an example of an error message I would supply if the server was not fully compliant.
-
Daniel
No. You said earlier that snikket is doing vendor lock in. I'm asking you to provide proof for that
-
Zash
I just got Snikket (client) to connect to my main account on my non-snikket server that doesn't even have registration.
-
Ellenor Malik
Zash: oookaaayy
-
Zash
Had to `qrencode -t ansi 'xmpp:me@myserver.tld?register'` and uncheck a hidden checkbox tho
-
Ellenor Malik
that's more than a mite absurd
-
Ellenor Malik
I'm pretty sure on the server side snikket refers to a feature set and not a specific server
-
moparisthebest
yes "modern xmpp" for lack of a better term
-
Zash
Huh
-
jonas’
moparisthebest, better term .... liiiike .... snikket?
-
moparisthebest
sure :)
-
Ellenor Malik
Zash: having to qrencode the registration seems more than a mite barrier to entry shaped
-
Zash
No, quite the opposite
-
Ellenor Malik
(she says, while planning a Website for her XMPP server which will do just that)
-
Zash
QR code with `xmpp:example.com?register` on your website would work just fine in Conversations too
-
moparisthebest
Ellenor Malik, have you ever instead tried to send someone a username and password over SMS or something
-
Ellenor Malik
the main issue is getting people to transcribe domain names
-
moparisthebest
also the people that always capitalize the first letter of everything without telling you
-
Ellenor Malik
why are we sending passwords over SMS anyway?
-
moparisthebest
I said or something :)
-
moparisthebest
I've done it using Silence before
-
Ellenor Malik
... but why are we sending qr codes over SMS?
-
moparisthebest
you don't
-
Ellenor Malik
I should probably come up with a module to an XMPP server that makes it so that users can only federate if they verify their phone number
-
moparisthebest
what are you going to use to verify phone number?
-
Ellenor Malik
that is, they can only message out of the local server
-
jonas’
Ellenor Malik, sounds like a plan for anti-spam in some deployments
-
moparisthebest
Ellenor Malik, also sounds like you are just talking about https://www.kontalk.net/
-
Ellenor Malik
everything that can be done by someone with a 132 iq has already been done
-
moparisthebest
fyi that's mostly standard xmpp too and federates
-
moparisthebest
last I checked he was taking out the non-standard extensions slowly
-
Ellenor Malik
probably preparing to shut down
-
Ellenor Malik
which is bad
-
MattJ
I'm happy that most people in the community do understand the motivation behind Snikket <3
-
MattJ
and yes, you can connect to non-Snikket servers with the Snikket app, and yes, you can connect to a Snikket server from a non-Snikket app
-
MattJ
But it's not advertised that way because that's not really what provides the best user experience
-
MattJ
and I have had to explain to multiple people who try to use Snikket with non-Snikket servers that they really really should just go and use Conversations
-
moparisthebest
you'd have to explain "what is XMPP" to people that *just* want a chat app
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MattJ
The problem is that anyone in this room, or who even knows what XMPP is most likely is not the target audience for Snikket
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moparisthebest
*eyes glaze over* thinks to self: when will this idiot shut up so I can just go install Signal
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MattJ
Off to dinner now, don't worry :)
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moparisthebest
haha sorry if the sarcasm wasn't implied, that's an impression of a user who just wants a chat app when you go into a "what is XMPP and why is it the best" explanation
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MattJ
:)
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!XSF_Martin
Don't explain it, just force them to use it. 😃
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Ellenor Malik
MattJ: would it not be ideal to splash up a warning when a non-snikket compliant server is used?
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Ellenor Malik
https://upload.umbrellix.net:5281/upload/PzgVtgcc8O76UlW8/20200219_115631210.m4a
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jonas’
I’m halfway through writing down the (xmpp) protocol used by search.jabber.network in a proper ProtoXEP by the way.
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jonas’
or rather, a cleaned up variant of that.
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moparisthebest
nice
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pep.
for s.j.n, I'd like not to have to use HTTP btw, and some clients seemed to prefer that for possible anonymity purposes. jonas’ would it be a problem for you if servers provided anon hosts that have s.j.n whitelisted? (so potentially you could get spammed from all around)
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jonas’
pep., interesting idea
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jonas’
I mean, I can get spammed via HTTP already
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pep.
Right
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jonas’
and with tor you can make that even more fun
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jonas’
I don’t block anything at the moment
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jonas’
but we’ll have to write down how to behave when I reply with rate-limiting error codes
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jonas’
also, see what I wrote in https://github.com/horazont/muchopper/issues/51
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moparisthebest
<body>{"code":"502", "message":"please come back later"}</body>
- jonas’ stomps moparisthebest
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jonas’
to make this less painful: <error type='wait'><resource-constraint xmlns='...'/><rate-limit xmlns='urn:xmpp:channel-search:0'/></error>
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jonas’
moparisthebest, there’s SO MUCH wrong with that. I can only compliment you, you put a lot of triggers in just 63 bytes.
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jonas’
only thing that’s missing is some unicode shenangians
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moparisthebest
jonas’, lol yea "how to trigger XMPP developers in only 63 characters!!!"
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moparisthebest
also HTTP developers if they are paying attention
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moparisthebest
I guess I could have used smart quotes instead...
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jonas’
oarrr
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MattJ
😁
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moparisthebest
jonas’, just for you <body>{“code”: “502”, “message”: “please come back later”}</body>
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Zash
What have you cursed us with‽
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pep.
I have moved the Summit minutes (pad) to the wiki, https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Conferences/Summit_24#Minutes
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pep.
I wanted to do something a bit more elaborated, but I don't have much time so that'll do. There is still quite a few pieces missing, I'd appreciate if people present could have a look