XSF Communications Team - 2019-01-04

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  12. pep.

    jc: at CCC, the "assembly" was used to designate the tables and chairs where we were seated. We organized a meetup separately, (they call that self-organized sessions), which is what I talk about in my email

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  14. Ge0rG

    jc: you MUST mention that it's the 20 years of Jabber anniversary edition

  15. pep.


  16. Ge0rG

    I wonder if jc will come back and see the backlog

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  18. Ge0rG

    debacle, jc: https://slashdot.org/story/99/01/04/1621211/open-real-time-messaging-system

  19. debacle

    Today's the day!

  20. debacle

    Happy Birthday, XMPP! 20th Anniversary of 1st Jabber Server https://fr.movim.eu/?blog/debacle%40movim.eu/happy-birthday-xmpp-20th-anniversary-of-1st-jabber-server-IBmtu8

  21. pep.

    https://slashdot.org/story/99/01/04/1621211/open-real-time-messaging-system ^

  22. Ge0rG

    debacle: your post is also something for HN frontpage ;)

  23. debacle

    fortunately, it's edhelas server, not mine!

  24. Ge0rG


  25. Ge0rG

    debacle: can you add the original link?

  26. debacle

    I did now, Ge0rG (thanks for the link, and thanks to myself, that I used Movim for the post, not Diaspora - the latter does not support corrections)

  27. pep.

    (and it's not XMPP either, is it.)

  28. Ge0rG

    debacle: do you have a HN account you want to get karma on?

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  30. pep.

    You're also certainly going to see lots of naysayers

  31. Ge0rG

    pep.: I don't mind

  32. Ge0rG

    bad publicity is good publicity

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  37. debacle

    waiting for the "official XMPP obituary" from Signal, Matrix, etc. As Mark Twain said: "The rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated"

  38. jc

    Hey, I'll update the newsletter but at least one person should proofread please

  39. debacle

    my English is too German for this task

  40. jc

    Oh, I guess pep. did already...

  41. jc

    pep. fixed thanks

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  43. pep.

    I tried yes, with the disclaimer that I'm no native speaker :-°

  44. Ge0rG

    jc: I'd suggest to merge the three Logitech paragraphs into one

  45. jonas’

    looking at it

  46. Ge0rG

    jc: and https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/lessons-vendor-lock-messaging should be moved into a prominent position in the context of the 20th birthday

  47. Ge0rG

    Because it's essentially what I would have written for the birthday blog if I had the time

  48. jc

    Proofreading is not only to fix English spelling and grammatical mistakes, but to find broken links or places where I wrote something wrong or stupid

  49. jc

    Ge0rG: ack

  50. jc

    Haha... from the Slashdot comments: "You can do the exact same thing with IRC. Just get on an IRC server and don't join any channels"

  51. jonas’

    jc, lgtm, am I stupid or didn’t you get around to add the anniversary yet?

  52. jc

    jonas’ doing that now

  53. jc

    jonas’ I'm doing that now

  54. oli

    yeah, but without a push server it won't work on iOS

  55. Link Mauve

    oli, I’m pretty sure iOS support wasn’t a thing back in 1999. :p

  56. jc

    The joke of the Slashdot comment is is that no-one's using XMPP...

  57. oli

    Link Mauve: but there were PDAs

  58. oli

    they had no imagination

  59. Link Mauve

    oli, PDAs didn’t actively prevent TCP connections from working, nor had a vendor priviledged TCP connection.

  60. Ge0rG wrote a PDA IRC client back in 2001.

  61. Link Mauve

    iOS issues have been created by Apple, for Apple.

  62. Ge0rG

    Link Mauve: back in that time, there were no malicious app providers who would mine cryptocoins on your phone.

  63. oli

    i know i know, but wasn't it obvious that this has ti be the direction we were heading

  64. Ge0rG

    Link Mauve: sadly, Apple had good reasons to make those limitations

  65. oli

    i wonder if there are some posts for the 10th anniversary worth mentionning?

  66. Ge0rG

    jc: the links all look fine to me. Might add this to clients: - Monal releases [3.3 on iOS and 2.3 on macOS](https://monal.im/blog/ios-release-and-mac-mute/)

  67. jc

    jonas’: I've pushed an update to the newsletter mentioning the anniversary if you're interested in checking

  68. Ge0rG

    oli: I don't think so

  69. jc

    Ge0rG ^^

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  71. Ge0rG

    direct link: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/newsletter/content/posts/newsletter/2019-01-04.md

  72. jc

    Oh... only now I see the PR comments

  73. Ge0rG

    jc: s/20th anniversary of the first Jabber server release./20th anniversary of Jabber./ please. I think it's more weightily and more approriate

  74. jc

    Ge0rG: I wrote it a bit different from that...

  75. jc

    Not sure if it's too short or dry now

  76. Ge0rG

    jc: it's perfect. I'm trying to think of a good bridge to the Linux Journal article

  77. jonas’

    "... fitting the spirit of the anniversary season, the linux journal has a reminder on why vendor lock-in in instant-messaging is a bad thing" ?

  78. jc

    To be completely honest, I wasn't that impressed with the Linux Journal article

  79. jc

    I think I could write something better

  80. jonas’

    I haven’t read it

  81. jc

    but don't have the time anymore

  82. Ge0rG

    > Linux Journal has published an article [Lessons in Vendor Lock-in: Messaging], reflecting over the last 20 years of instant messaging and lamenting the fact that open and standardized messaging hasn't taken off as expected.

  83. Ge0rG

    jc: you could, I could. But we didn't. That article is good enough and we are EBUSY

  84. jc

    Ge0rG: reflecting "on", not over

  85. Ge0rG


  86. oli

    there is a linux mag interview with jeremie from 2001.

  87. jc

    oli: Link?

  88. Ge0rG


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  91. jonas’

    I find "lament" a bit whiney, but this might be my non-native tongue speaking

  92. jc

    The article is whiny

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  94. jc

    The German translations sound a bit worse to me TBH

  95. jc

    Than how I read "lament"... but we can change it

  96. Ge0rG

    I don't like the word "lament" either, but lack a proper alternative

  97. jonas’

    omit the entire half-sentence?

  98. jc

    We can just remove the word...

  99. Ge0rG

    > We can just remove the word... 👍

  100. jc

    I think it's much better now, pls have a look

  101. jc

    I also link to the Linux Mag article and /. announcement

  102. jonas’

    very good

  103. oli


  104. jonas’

    I like it

  105. jc

    oli: Paywalled

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  107. oli

    it opens in firefox android

  108. jc

    cool, thanks for all the suggestions and feedback

  109. jc

    It really improves the quality of the newsletter

  110. Ge0rG


  111. Ge0rG

    jc: when will you bring it live? This is something that deserves some HN karma, and the valley nerds typically only wake up at noon ;)

  112. jc

    I just merged...

  113. jc

    We can link the original Slashdot link to HN or debacle's blog post

  114. jc

    I don't think we need to wait for the newsletter

  115. jc

    But in any case, i'll be up after the next automatic build

  116. jc

    BTW... we have now 182 subscribers

  117. jc

    Still growing every month

  118. jc

    Not a crap load, but something

  119. Ge0rG

    that's... rather tiny, I'd say

  120. Ge0rG

    jc: I'm just saying that the ideal time to submit to HN will be in ~4hr

  121. jc


  122. jc

    I never try to time it like that

  123. Ge0rG

    whenever you submit, you need something like 4-5 upvotes in the first minutes to get it onto the frontpage

  124. jc

    Yes, so we can coordinate here, but in 4-5 hours there's a good chance I'm in town

  125. jc

    But I have a mobile communications device

  126. Ge0rG

    Yeah, it's an unfortunate time for many.

  127. jc

    So let's do it a bit earlier... there are also europeans who can upvote

  128. jc

    And Africans 🙂

  129. jc

    I'm going to send out the newsletter now... last chance or forever hold your peace!

  130. Link Mauve

    jc, try to do it the closest to that time though.

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  132. jc

    heh, I see now for the first time that the newsletter emails come from the "XMPP Software Foundation"

  133. Ge0rG

    You can publish the newsletter now and hope nobody submits it to hn in the next 4h

  134. jc

    No-one's ever submitted it to HN I think

  135. jc

    I would not submit it, but rather debacle's blog post or the slashdot announcement

  136. Ge0rG

    I'd submit all three.

  137. oli

    the wsj article, unpaywalled: https://outline.com/Aac7fH

  138. Ge0rG

    So if we all meet here at 16:00 UTC to submit and upvote, we can make front-page

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  140. jc

    Ge0rG: OK

  141. Ge0rG

    (that's massive over engineering to get the attention of some valley bros)

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  143. pep.


  144. pep.

    Things you have to do today to get some attention..

  145. oli

    do i need a user account?

  146. pep.

    And they will certainly be the firsts to whine about it, "isn't XMPP dead already?"

  147. pep.

    "What you don't use Slack?"

  148. jc

    oli: if you want to be able to comment and vote, yes

  149. jc

    pep.: The main arguments usually are 1. XML, yuck! 2. Clients all suck and look old

  150. oli

    pep., fun part: jeremie worked on telehash and community support is on slack

  151. pep.

    jc, yeah I know these arguments

  152. oli

    my main "argument" would be: matrix is the new jabber

  153. pep.

    You mean matrix is redoing jabber? :)

  154. Ge0rG

    there is no link to the newsletter at https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/News_and_Articles_for_the_next_XMPP_Newsletter

  155. Ge0rG


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  162. pep.

    That Linux Journal article uses "Jabber" and "XMPP" weirdly. I know it's never really clear, but I don't think "XMPP plugins" are a thing at all (nor is a "Jabber plugin", or maybe it was at the time?)

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  169. oli

    btw, is the jabber server software from 1999 still available? was it ever released as open source?

  170. Ge0rG

    oli: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabberd14

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  172. oli

    I don't find any jabber server in 1999

  173. oli

    from 1999

  174. oli

    In the jabberd14 repository the first commit was in June 2000. https://github.com/mawis/jabberd/tree/jer/jabberd14/jabberd

  175. Neustradamus

    There is a jabberd2 too if you want

  176. Ge0rG

    oli: that looks like an import from whatever (svn) into git, without keeping the history

  177. Ge0rG

    can somebody parse out of https://web.archive.org/web/20060615062408/http://svn.jabberd.org:80/

  178. oli

    I'm asking, because that code is also part of the jabber history. Some guy ported KDE 1 and KDE 2 to compile on recent Linux.

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  180. Ge0rG

    https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://svn.jabberd.org:80/tags/pre-1_1_3/jabberd14/ is empty :(

  181. jc

    Hey folks, ready for submission?

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  183. Ge0rG .o/

  184. jc

    Who's going to submit what? debacle, do you want to submit your blog post?

  185. Ge0rG

    I can submit anything/everything

  186. jc

    IMO it would be better if each article is submitted by someone else

  187. jc

    Would look a bit less like spamming

  188. Ge0rG


  189. jc

    Ge0rG: you could submit the Slashdot article, and I'll submit the newsletter (or vice versa)

  190. jc

    And debacle the blog post

  191. jc

    or someone else

  192. Ge0rG

    the Slashdot article has a sub-optimal title for HN, but we can try

  193. jc

    You can choose your own title though

  194. Ge0rG

    jc: but it's frowned upon

  195. jc


  196. Ge0rG

    jc: you submit the newsletter and I can do either debacle's post or the Slashdot

  197. jc

    Let's see...

  198. jc

    See above...

  199. jc

    Link Mauve, Neustradamus, debacle, nyco, SouL, pep.: please upvote https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18824911

  200. Link Mauve

    I still don’t have an account there.

  201. pep.


  202. jc


  203. Link Mauve

    Also, you should instead recommend to go to the front page, then click on it, then upvote.

  204. Link Mauve

    I remember people saying otherwise it doesn’t count, or even counts as spam.

  205. jc

    ah ok

  206. pep.

    hmm, I can't un-upvote it..

  207. Link Mauve

    pep., don’t, you’ve done it already.

  208. jc

    Not the front-page, because it isn't there

  209. jc

    But it's here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newest

  210. Ge0rG

    jc: submission guidelines say that the HN title must match the article title, so now you need to go and change the newsletter title on xmpp.org!

  211. pep.

    so complicated..

  212. jc

    Ge0rG: meh

  213. jc

    vast majority of article titles and submissions don't match

  214. pep.

    All that for a bunch of SF geeks

  215. Ge0rG

    Here's another one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18824957

  216. pep.

    post that on xsf@ ?

  217. pep.

    oh you did

  218. pep.

    I wonder how often they update the frontpage

  219. Ge0rG

    Maybe we have been detected to be a bot network

  220. Ge0rG

    I can't see anything in top150

  221. pep.

    Well, upvotes within seconds of being submitted are probably suspicious

  222. jc

    Let's not get paranoid people 🙂

  223. pep.


  224. Ge0rG

    jc: too late

  225. jc

    The problem with posting at the most "optimised" time is that everybody else also does it

  226. pep.

    We're not paranoid, there are conspiracies everywhere!!

  227. jc

    The Slack article that I posted that was front-page for many hours was around 12:00 EST

  228. pep.

    Getting up to 15-20 points would be good :x

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  230. Ge0rG

    the Slashdot article is #26! \o/

  231. jc

    Congrats 🙂

  232. jc

    Newsletter is nowhere to be found... must be the dang title!

  233. Ge0rG

    jc: nah, title complaints come later when mods have had a look

  234. pep.

    Is HN free software?

  235. pep.

    Doesn't look like it

  236. jc

    Not sure, but there are many free clones

  237. pep.

    I'd be curious to know how they do this

  238. Ge0rG

    pep.: no, it's Cloud SaaS

  239. Ge0rG

    using some lisp magic IIRC

  240. jc

    It's funny the newsletter has a few more votes, but the slashdot article has a comment by yours truly

  241. Link Mauve

    Maybe because it still doesn’t have any comment?

  242. jc

    Maybe, but I don't think it'll help if I comment since I submitted it

  243. Link Mauve

    No, but someone else could.

  244. jc

    Yes, someone with an acount... ahem

  245. pep.

    Not exactly sure what to comment about

  246. Link Mauve

    pep., how exciting this is!

  247. Link Mauve

    How you’re gonna bake a cake.

  248. Link Mauve

    Stuff like that.

  249. Link Mauve

    Do sockpuppets need people to pull strings nowadays? /o\

  250. pep.

    Talking in public is not exactly my thing you know :P

  251. pep.

    Here, commented.

  252. pep.

    Ge0rG, the slashdot article is going down!!

  253. jc


  254. jc

    Looks like we need reinforcements

  255. pep.

    They're trying to put Jabber down! 陰謀だ!

  256. Link Mauve

    Damn, now I have the song in my head.

  257. pep.


  258. jc


  259. jc

    Still hanging in there by a thread

  260. pep.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZlqGD2FIs8, or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOlXkj-RO-M

  261. Ge0rG

    jc: https://fr.movim.eu/?blog/debacle%40movim.eu/happy-birthday-xmpp-20th-anniversary-of-1st-jabber-server-IBmtu8

  262. pep.

    jc, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65dYsNJ3548 a scene from the anime with subtitles :p

  263. jc

    ....aaaaaand it's gone

  264. pep.


  265. pep.


  266. jc

    well... looks like the newsletter one was shadowbanned...

  267. jc

    it's nowhere to be found

  268. Ge0rG

    jc: at least you are not shadowbanned.

  269. jc

    I wouldn't know, would I? I guess I"m not since you see my comments

  270. Ge0rG

    jc: exactly. Also you can open a private tab and point it to HN

  271. Ge0rG

    jc: want to make another approach?

  272. oli

    you can try on facebook 💩

  273. jc

    I'll pass

  274. jc

    Ge0rG: what do you have in mind?

  275. jc

    I'm ok with calling it a day and moving on, but someone else can still submit debacle's article

  276. Ge0rG

    jc: submit debacle's post

  277. jc

    There is also still reddit and other places

  278. Ge0rG

    jc: so either you submit it now, or I submit it and you upvote and then you can call it a day :D

  279. jc

    Ge0rG: what's funny is that I see my karma only going up by 2, but the newsletter post had 9 points, so that sounds almost like 7 points aren't counted (like you suggested)

  280. jc

    Ge0rG go for it

  281. Ge0rG

    jc: "Happy Birthday, XMPP 20th Anniversary of Jabber" on https://news.ycombinator.com/newest

  282. pep.

    The slshdot article is back as #30 !!

  283. pep.

    And the happy birthday thing is #6

  284. pep.


  285. pep.


  286. pep.

    jc, smart comment

  287. jc

    Back from the dead

  288. pep.


  289. jc

    Ge0rG: good of you to suggest we try one more time. 3rd time lucky

  290. Ge0rG

    down to #6 now

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  292. pep.

    yeah and it's not going up

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  295. jc

    I'm debugging something, so might leave/join the room constantly, please bear with me

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  298. pep.

    Ge0rG, you're stilling all debacle's karma :P

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  301. jc

    You snooze you lose

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  303. Link Mauve

    arnaudj, do you plan on translating this month’s newsletter? If not soon, I’ll start something.

  304. erkanfiles

    I could help translating to german... Link Mauve

  305. Link Mauve

    That’d be very welcome!

  306. erkanfiles

    > That’d be very welcome! How to, where to and till when?

  307. Link Mauve

    erkanfiles, hmm, the easiest way is to copy the English version into an Etherpad if you are working on it with other people (even if just for proof-reading), and then start translating. :)

  308. Link Mauve

    It can be quite frustrating if this is your first time, don’t hesitate to ask us for explanations for what something means.

  309. Link Mauve

    There is no deadline, you can do it pretty much whenever you want.

  310. erkanfiles

    Where may I find the current version? Are there existing etherpads or shall I create one?

  311. erkanfiles

    > It can be quite frustrating if this is your first time, don’t hesitate to ask us for explanations for what something means. Thx, Ge0rG helped me out with the minutes from dec 20th, there were some points I didnt get ;-)

  312. Link Mauve

    https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/content/posts/newsletter/2019-01-04.md would be the current version.

  313. Link Mauve

    Most likely the final one.

  314. jc

    I think we should update the xmpp.org website to host the translations

  315. jc

    Then translators can simply work there and there's one standardized way of doing things

  316. jc

    Can Pelican handle i18n?

  317. jc

    Would actually be good to have FR and DE (and ES etc.) versions of the site

  318. Ge0rG

    erkanfiles: sorry, I didn't manage to forward the minutes yet. 😥

  319. pep.

    Link Mauve, if you have that etherpad up I can help

  320. Link Mauve

    pep., haven’t started yet.

  321. pep.


  322. pep.

    For french

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  324. Ge0rG


  325. Ge0rG

    Just wow!

  326. arnaudj

    Link Mauve: I can join the translation effort tomorrow

  327. Link Mauve

    I didn’t start yet, but pep. did.

  328. erkanfiles

    Think, liberloebi will help me with translation to german

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  336. Ge0rG

    Still #11 on HN!

  337. erkanfiles

    Ge0rG: ?

  338. Ge0rG

    erkanfiles: https://news.ycombinator.com/

  339. Ge0rG

    Oh sorry, I haven't reloaded. It's down to #34

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