XSF Communications Team

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09:20:28 pep. jc: at CCC, the "assembly" was used to designate the tables and chairs where we were seated. We organized a meetup separately, (they call that self-organized sessions), which is what I talk about in my email
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09:27:34 Ge0rG jc: you MUST mention that it's the 20 years of Jabber anniversary edition
09:33:42 pep. True
09:36:59 Ge0rG I wonder if jc will come back and see the backlog
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10:53:18 Ge0rG debacle, jc: https://slashdot.org/story/99/01/04/1621211/open-real-time-messaging-system
10:53:27 debacle Today's the day!
10:53:30 debacle Happy Birthday, XMPP! 20th Anniversary of 1st Jabber Server https://fr.movim.eu/?blog/debacle%40movim.eu/happy-birthday-xmpp-20th-anniversary-of-1st-jabber-server-IBmtu8
10:55:36 pep. https://slashdot.org/story/99/01/04/1621211/open-real-time-messaging-system ^
10:56:34 Ge0rG debacle: your post is also something for HN frontpage ;)
10:57:09 debacle fortunately, it's edhelas server, not mine!
10:57:18 Ge0rG he-he-he!
10:57:33 Ge0rG debacle: can you add the original link?
11:00:52 debacle I did now, Ge0rG (thanks for the link, and thanks to myself, that I used Movim for the post, not Diaspora - the latter does not support corrections)
11:01:29 pep. (and it's not XMPP either, is it.)
11:03:16 Ge0rG debacle: do you have a HN account you want to get karma on?
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11:04:26 pep. You're also certainly going to see lots of naysayers
11:05:40 Ge0rG pep.: I don't mind
11:05:47 Ge0rG bad publicity is good publicity
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11:13:23 debacle waiting for the "official XMPP obituary" from Signal, Matrix, etc. As Mark Twain said: "The rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated"
11:14:27 jc Hey, I'll update the newsletter but at least one person should proofread please
11:15:06 debacle my English is too German for this task
11:15:10 jc Oh, I guess pep. did already...
11:15:12 jc pep. fixed thanks
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11:16:14 pep. I tried yes, with the disclaimer that I'm no native speaker :-°
11:16:29 Ge0rG jc: I'd suggest to merge the three Logitech paragraphs into one
11:16:30 jonas’ looking at it
11:16:48 Ge0rG jc: and https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/lessons-vendor-lock-messaging should be moved into a prominent position in the context of the 20th birthday
11:17:07 Ge0rG Because it's essentially what I would have written for the birthday blog if I had the time
11:18:26 jc Proofreading is not only to fix English spelling and grammatical mistakes, but to find broken links or places where I wrote something wrong or stupid
11:20:31 jc Ge0rG: ack
11:21:11 jc Haha... from the Slashdot comments: "You can do the exact same thing with IRC. Just get on an IRC server and don't join any channels"
11:23:35 jonas’ jc, lgtm, am I stupid or didn’t you get around to add the anniversary yet?
11:23:46 jc jonas’ doing that now
11:23:52 jc jonas’ I'm doing that now
11:23:54 oli yeah, but without a push server it won't work on iOS
11:24:32 Link Mauve oli, I’m pretty sure iOS support wasn’t a thing back in 1999. :p
11:25:16 jc The joke of the Slashdot comment is is that no-one's using XMPP...
11:25:34 oli Link Mauve: but there were PDAs
11:25:58 oli they had no imagination
11:26:30 Link Mauve oli, PDAs didn’t actively prevent TCP connections from working, nor had a vendor priviledged TCP connection.
11:26:32 Ge0rG wrote a PDA IRC client back in 2001.
11:26:50 Link Mauve iOS issues have been created by Apple, for Apple.
11:26:59 Ge0rG Link Mauve: back in that time, there were no malicious app providers who would mine cryptocoins on your phone.
11:27:29 oli i know i know, but wasn't it obvious that this has ti be the direction we were heading
11:27:36 Ge0rG Link Mauve: sadly, Apple had good reasons to make those limitations
11:32:39 oli i wonder if there are some posts for the 10th anniversary worth mentionning?
11:33:02 Ge0rG jc: the links all look fine to me. Might add this to clients: - Monal releases [3.3 on iOS and 2.3 on macOS](https://monal.im/blog/ios-release-and-mac-mute/)
11:33:10 jc jonas’: I've pushed an update to the newsletter mentioning the anniversary if you're interested in checking
11:33:12 Ge0rG oli: I don't think so
11:33:19 jc Ge0rG ^^
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11:33:40 Ge0rG direct link: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/newsletter/content/posts/newsletter/2019-01-04.md
11:33:46 jc Oh... only now I see the PR comments
11:34:37 Ge0rG jc: s/20th anniversary of the first Jabber server release./20th anniversary of Jabber./ please. I think it's more weightily and more approriate
11:36:16 jc Ge0rG: I wrote it a bit different from that...
11:36:57 jc Not sure if it's too short or dry now
11:37:47 Ge0rG jc: it's perfect. I'm trying to think of a good bridge to the Linux Journal article
11:38:44 jonas’ "... fitting the spirit of the anniversary season, the linux journal has a reminder on why vendor lock-in in instant-messaging is a bad thing" ?
11:39:13 jc To be completely honest, I wasn't that impressed with the Linux Journal article
11:39:18 jc I think I could write something better
11:39:19 jonas’ I haven’t read it
11:39:26 jc but don't have the time anymore
11:39:45 Ge0rG > Linux Journal has published an article [Lessons in Vendor Lock-in: Messaging], reflecting over the last 20 years of instant messaging and lamenting the fact that open and standardized messaging hasn't taken off as expected.
11:40:20 Ge0rG jc: you could, I could. But we didn't. That article is good enough and we are EBUSY
11:40:40 jc Ge0rG: reflecting "on", not over
11:40:52 Ge0rG 👍
11:40:54 oli there is a linux mag interview with jeremie from 2001.
11:41:05 jc oli: Link?
11:41:25 Ge0rG http://www.linux-mag.com/id/902/
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11:42:04 oli http://www.linux-mag.com/id/902/
11:43:53 jonas’ I find "lament" a bit whiney, but this might be my non-native tongue speaking
11:44:16 jc The article is whiny
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11:44:39 jc The German translations sound a bit worse to me TBH
11:44:53 jc Than how I read "lament"... but we can change it
11:45:04 Ge0rG I don't like the word "lament" either, but lack a proper alternative
11:45:22 jonas’ omit the entire half-sentence?
11:45:37 jc We can just remove the word...
11:46:33 Ge0rG > We can just remove the word... 👍
11:47:05 jc I think it's much better now, pls have a look
11:47:18 jc I also link to the Linux Mag article and /. announcement
11:47:30 jonas’ very good
11:47:36 oli https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1020882444493039840
11:47:38 jonas’ I like it
11:47:56 jc oli: Paywalled
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11:48:39 oli it opens in firefox android
11:48:43 jc cool, thanks for all the suggestions and feedback
11:49:04 jc It really improves the quality of the newsletter
11:49:14 Ge0rG 👍
11:50:01 Ge0rG jc: when will you bring it live? This is something that deserves some HN karma, and the valley nerds typically only wake up at noon ;)
11:50:11 jc I just merged...
11:50:31 jc We can link the original Slashdot link to HN or debacle's blog post
11:50:37 jc I don't think we need to wait for the newsletter
11:50:46 jc But in any case, i'll be up after the next automatic build
11:51:48 jc BTW... we have now 182 subscribers
11:51:51 jc Still growing every month
11:51:58 jc Not a crap load, but something
11:52:31 Ge0rG that's... rather tiny, I'd say
11:52:45 Ge0rG jc: I'm just saying that the ideal time to submit to HN will be in ~4hr
11:52:54 jc ok
11:53:04 jc I never try to time it like that
11:53:36 Ge0rG whenever you submit, you need something like 4-5 upvotes in the first minutes to get it onto the frontpage
11:53:58 jc Yes, so we can coordinate here, but in 4-5 hours there's a good chance I'm in town
11:54:12 jc But I have a mobile communications device
11:55:27 Ge0rG Yeah, it's an unfortunate time for many.
11:55:59 jc So let's do it a bit earlier... there are also europeans who can upvote
11:56:10 jc And Africans 🙂
11:57:52 jc I'm going to send out the newsletter now... last chance or forever hold your peace!
11:59:19 Link Mauve jc, try to do it the closest to that time though.
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12:02:44 jc heh, I see now for the first time that the newsletter emails come from the "XMPP Software Foundation"
12:03:03 Ge0rG You can publish the newsletter now and hope nobody submits it to hn in the next 4h
12:03:20 jc No-one's ever submitted it to HN I think
12:03:37 jc I would not submit it, but rather debacle's blog post or the slashdot announcement
12:04:07 Ge0rG I'd submit all three.
12:06:18 oli the wsj article, unpaywalled: https://outline.com/Aac7fH
12:20:38 Ge0rG So if we all meet here at 16:00 UTC to submit and upvote, we can make front-page
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12:21:14 jc Ge0rG: OK
12:21:15 Ge0rG (that's massive over engineering to get the attention of some valley bros)
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12:22:32 pep. Indeed
12:22:39 pep. Things you have to do today to get some attention..
12:22:59 oli do i need a user account?
12:23:11 pep. And they will certainly be the firsts to whine about it, "isn't XMPP dead already?"
12:23:19 pep. "What you don't use Slack?"
12:23:48 jc oli: if you want to be able to comment and vote, yes
12:25:44 jc pep.: The main arguments usually are 1. XML, yuck! 2. Clients all suck and look old
12:25:56 oli pep., fun part: jeremie worked on telehash and community support is on slack
12:26:09 pep. jc, yeah I know these arguments
12:30:21 oli my main "argument" would be: matrix is the new jabber
12:36:19 pep. You mean matrix is redoing jabber? :)
12:36:44 Ge0rG there is no link to the newsletter at https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/News_and_Articles_for_the_next_XMPP_Newsletter
12:39:58 Ge0rG fixed.
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14:08:22 pep. That Linux Journal article uses "Jabber" and "XMPP" weirdly. I know it's never really clear, but I don't think "XMPP plugins" are a thing at all (nor is a "Jabber plugin", or maybe it was at the time?)
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14:36:10 oli btw, is the jabber server software from 1999 still available? was it ever released as open source?
14:36:43 Ge0rG oli: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabberd14
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15:01:57 oli I don't find any jabber server in 1999
15:02:02 oli from 1999
15:14:09 oli In the jabberd14 repository the first commit was in June 2000. https://github.com/mawis/jabberd/tree/jer/jabberd14/jabberd
15:31:38 Neustradamus There is a jabberd2 too if you want
15:32:21 Ge0rG oli: that looks like an import from whatever (svn) into git, without keeping the history
15:32:52 Ge0rG can somebody parse out of https://web.archive.org/web/20060615062408/http://svn.jabberd.org:80/
15:40:34 oli I'm asking, because that code is also part of the jabber history. Some guy ported KDE 1 and KDE 2 to compile on recent Linux.
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15:51:26 Ge0rG https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://svn.jabberd.org:80/tags/pre-1_1_3/jabberd14/ is empty :(
15:55:47 jc Hey folks, ready for submission?
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15:56:29 Ge0rG .o/
15:56:31 jc Who's going to submit what? debacle, do you want to submit your blog post?
15:56:51 Ge0rG I can submit anything/everything
15:57:11 jc IMO it would be better if each article is submitted by someone else
15:57:21 jc Would look a bit less like spamming
15:57:29 Ge0rG right
15:57:47 jc Ge0rG: you could submit the Slashdot article, and I'll submit the newsletter (or vice versa)
15:57:56 jc And debacle the blog post
15:57:59 jc or someone else
15:59:28 Ge0rG the Slashdot article has a sub-optimal title for HN, but we can try
15:59:42 jc You can choose your own title though
15:59:50 Ge0rG jc: but it's frowned upon
15:59:59 jc https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18824911
16:00:02 Ge0rG jc: you submit the newsletter and I can do either debacle's post or the Slashdot
16:00:04 jc Let's see...
16:00:10 jc See above...
16:00:31 jc Link Mauve, Neustradamus, debacle, nyco, SouL, pep.: please upvote https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18824911
16:00:48 Link Mauve I still don’t have an account there.
16:00:55 pep. done
16:00:58 jc tx
16:01:00 Link Mauve Also, you should instead recommend to go to the front page, then click on it, then upvote.
16:01:13 Link Mauve I remember people saying otherwise it doesn’t count, or even counts as spam.
16:01:18 jc ah ok
16:01:28 pep. hmm, I can't un-upvote it..
16:01:35 Link Mauve pep., don’t, you’ve done it already.
16:01:49 jc Not the front-page, because it isn't there
16:01:53 jc But it's here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newest
16:02:40 Ge0rG jc: submission guidelines say that the HN title must match the article title, so now you need to go and change the newsletter title on xmpp.org!
16:03:11 pep. so complicated..
16:03:15 jc Ge0rG: meh
16:03:30 jc vast majority of article titles and submissions don't match
16:03:31 pep. All that for a bunch of SF geeks
16:04:01 Ge0rG Here's another one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18824957
16:04:56 pep. post that on xsf@ ?
16:05:36 pep. oh you did
16:07:44 pep. I wonder how often they update the frontpage
16:08:36 Ge0rG Maybe we have been detected to be a bot network
16:09:10 Ge0rG I can't see anything in top150
16:09:23 pep. Well, upvotes within seconds of being submitted are probably suspicious
16:10:15 jc Let's not get paranoid people 🙂
16:10:25 pep. :P
16:10:31 Ge0rG jc: too late
16:10:39 jc The problem with posting at the most "optimised" time is that everybody else also does it
16:10:44 pep. We're not paranoid, there are conspiracies everywhere!!
16:11:04 jc The Slack article that I posted that was front-page for many hours was around 12:00 EST
16:12:36 pep. Getting up to 15-20 points would be good :x
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16:13:36 Ge0rG the Slashdot article is #26! \o/
16:13:48 jc Congrats 🙂
16:14:11 jc Newsletter is nowhere to be found... must be the dang title!
16:14:27 Ge0rG jc: nah, title complaints come later when mods have had a look
16:14:48 pep. Is HN free software?
16:14:58 pep. Doesn't look like it
16:15:01 jc Not sure, but there are many free clones
16:15:05 pep. I'd be curious to know how they do this
16:15:07 Ge0rG pep.: no, it's Cloud SaaS
16:15:19 Ge0rG using some lisp magic IIRC
16:15:28 jc It's funny the newsletter has a few more votes, but the slashdot article has a comment by yours truly
16:15:52 Link Mauve Maybe because it still doesn’t have any comment?
16:16:26 jc Maybe, but I don't think it'll help if I comment since I submitted it
16:16:38 Link Mauve No, but someone else could.
16:16:48 jc Yes, someone with an acount... ahem
16:17:10 pep. Not exactly sure what to comment about
16:18:01 Link Mauve pep., how exciting this is!
16:18:08 Link Mauve How you’re gonna bake a cake.
16:18:18 Link Mauve Stuff like that.
16:18:36 Link Mauve Do sockpuppets need people to pull strings nowadays? /o\
16:18:56 pep. Talking in public is not exactly my thing you know :P
16:19:37 pep. Here, commented.
16:20:03 pep. Ge0rG, the slashdot article is going down!!
16:20:11 jc lol
16:20:54 jc Looks like we need reinforcements
16:21:30 pep. They're trying to put Jabber down! 陰謀だ！
16:21:49 Link Mauve Damn, now I have the song in my head.
16:21:55 pep. :DD
16:25:40 jc Link?
16:26:07 jc Still hanging in there by a thread
16:26:11 pep. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZlqGD2FIs8, or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOlXkj-RO-M
16:26:22 Ge0rG jc: https://fr.movim.eu/?blog/debacle%40movim.eu/happy-birthday-xmpp-20th-anniversary-of-1st-jabber-server-IBmtu8
16:27:34 pep. jc, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65dYsNJ3548 a scene from the anime with subtitles :p
16:28:29 jc ....aaaaaand it's gone
16:28:46 pep. noooo
16:28:51 pep. 陰謀だ！！
16:29:23 jc well... looks like the newsletter one was shadowbanned...
16:29:27 jc it's nowhere to be found
16:29:57 Ge0rG jc: at least you are not shadowbanned.
16:30:16 jc I wouldn't know, would I? I guess I"m not since you see my comments
16:30:34 Ge0rG jc: exactly. Also you can open a private tab and point it to HN
16:30:48 Ge0rG jc: want to make another approach?
16:32:23 oli you can try on facebook 💩
16:32:47 jc I'll pass
16:33:08 jc Ge0rG: what do you have in mind?
16:33:38 jc I'm ok with calling it a day and moving on, but someone else can still submit debacle's article
16:33:40 Ge0rG jc: submit debacle's post
16:33:42 jc There is also still reddit and other places
16:34:07 Ge0rG jc: so either you submit it now, or I submit it and you upvote and then you can call it a day :D
16:34:25 jc Ge0rG: what's funny is that I see my karma only going up by 2, but the newsletter post had 9 points, so that sounds almost like 7 points aren't counted (like you suggested)
16:34:28 jc Ge0rG go for it
16:35:21 Ge0rG jc: "Happy Birthday, XMPP 20th Anniversary of Jabber" on https://news.ycombinator.com/newest
16:40:12 pep. The slshdot article is back as #30 !!
16:40:24 pep. And the happy birthday thing is #6
16:40:26 pep. wth
16:40:32 pep. #3!
16:40:48 pep. jc, smart comment
16:40:54 jc Back from the dead
16:41:23 pep. #2!
16:49:09 jc Ge0rG: good of you to suggest we try one more time. 3rd time lucky
16:51:19 Ge0rG down to #6 now
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17:15:29 pep. yeah and it's not going up
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17:32:16 jc I'm debugging something, so might leave/join the room constantly, please bear with me
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17:46:04 pep. Ge0rG, you're stilling all debacle's karma :P
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17:56:57 jc You snooze you lose
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18:22:07 Link Mauve arnaudj, do you plan on translating this month’s newsletter? If not soon, I’ll start something.
18:28:24 erkanfiles I could help translating to german... Link Mauve
18:29:08 Link Mauve That’d be very welcome!
18:30:03 erkanfiles > That’d be very welcome! How to, where to and till when?
18:30:58 Link Mauve erkanfiles, hmm, the easiest way is to copy the English version into an Etherpad if you are working on it with other people (even if just for proof-reading), and then start translating. :)
18:31:40 Link Mauve It can be quite frustrating if this is your first time, don’t hesitate to ask us for explanations for what something means.
18:32:00 Link Mauve There is no deadline, you can do it pretty much whenever you want.
18:32:17 erkanfiles Where may I find the current version? Are there existing etherpads or shall I create one?
18:33:09 erkanfiles > It can be quite frustrating if this is your first time, don’t hesitate to ask us for explanations for what something means. Thx, Ge0rG helped me out with the minutes from dec 20th, there were some points I didnt get ;-)
18:34:50 Link Mauve https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/content/posts/newsletter/2019-01-04.md would be the current version.
18:34:55 Link Mauve Most likely the final one.
18:35:14 jc I think we should update the xmpp.org website to host the translations
18:35:38 jc Then translators can simply work there and there's one standardized way of doing things
18:36:04 jc Can Pelican handle i18n?
18:36:31 jc Would actually be good to have FR and DE (and ES etc.) versions of the site
18:37:39 Ge0rG erkanfiles: sorry, I didn't manage to forward the minutes yet. 😥
18:51:19 pep. Link Mauve, if you have that etherpad up I can help
18:52:35 Link Mauve pep., haven’t started yet.
18:53:23 pep. https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/Kk5I02DivH
18:53:28 pep. For french
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19:22:06 Ge0rG https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18826383
19:22:13 Ge0rG Just wow!
19:50:46 arnaudj Link Mauve: I can join the translation effort tomorrow
19:51:08 Link Mauve I didn’t start yet, but pep. did.
19:52:17 erkanfiles Think, liberloebi will help me with translation to german
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21:41:11 Ge0rG Still #11 on HN!
21:42:50 erkanfiles Ge0rG: ?
21:43:26 Ge0rG erkanfiles: https://news.ycombinator.com/
21:46:32 Ge0rG Oh sorry, I haven't reloaded. It's down to #34
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