XSF Communications Team - 2019-01-04

jc: at CCC, the "assembly" was used to designate the tables and chairs where we were seated. We organized a meetup separately, (they call that self-organized sessions), which is what I talk about in my email

jc: you MUST mention that it's the 20 years of Jabber anniversary edition

True

I wonder if jc will come back and see the backlog

debacle, jc: https://slashdot.org/story/99/01/04/1621211/open-real-time-messaging-system

Today's the day!

Happy Birthday, XMPP! 20th Anniversary of 1st Jabber Server https://fr.movim.eu/?blog/debacle%40movim.eu/happy-birthday-xmpp-20th-anniversary-of-1st-jabber-server-IBmtu8

https://slashdot.org/story/99/01/04/1621211/open-real-time-messaging-system ^

debacle: your post is also something for HN frontpage ;)

fortunately, it's edhelas server, not mine!

he-he-he!

debacle: can you add the original link?

I did now, Ge0rG (thanks for the link, and thanks to myself, that I used Movim for the post, not Diaspora - the latter does not support corrections)

(and it's not XMPP either, is it.)

debacle: do you have a HN account you want to get karma on?

You're also certainly going to see lots of naysayers

pep.: I don't mind

bad publicity is good publicity

waiting for the "official XMPP obituary" from Signal, Matrix, etc. As Mark Twain said: "The rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated"

Hey, I'll update the newsletter but at least one person should proofread please

my English is too German for this task

Oh, I guess pep. did already...

pep. fixed thanks

I tried yes, with the disclaimer that I'm no native speaker :-°

jc: I'd suggest to merge the three Logitech paragraphs into one

looking at it

jc: and https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/lessons-vendor-lock-messaging should be moved into a prominent position in the context of the 20th birthday

Because it's essentially what I would have written for the birthday blog if I had the time

Proofreading is not only to fix English spelling and grammatical mistakes, but to find broken links or places where I wrote something wrong or stupid

Ge0rG: ack

Haha... from the Slashdot comments: "You can do the exact same thing with IRC. Just get on an IRC server and don't join any channels"

jc, lgtm, am I stupid or didn’t you get around to add the anniversary yet?

jonas’ I'm doing that now ✏

yeah, but without a push server it won't work on iOS

oli, I’m pretty sure iOS support wasn’t a thing back in 1999. :p

The joke of the Slashdot comment is is that no-one's using XMPP...

Link Mauve: but there were PDAs

they had no imagination

oli, PDAs didn’t actively prevent TCP connections from working, nor had a vendor priviledged TCP connection.

iOS issues have been created by Apple, for Apple.

Link Mauve: back in that time, there were no malicious app providers who would mine cryptocoins on your phone.

i know i know, but wasn't it obvious that this has ti be the direction we were heading

Link Mauve: sadly, Apple had good reasons to make those limitations

i wonder if there are some posts for the 10th anniversary worth mentionning?

jc: the links all look fine to me. Might add this to clients: - Monal releases [3.3 on iOS and 2.3 on macOS](https://monal.im/blog/ios-release-and-mac-mute/)

jonas’: I've pushed an update to the newsletter mentioning the anniversary if you're interested in checking

oli: I don't think so

Ge0rG ^^

direct link: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/newsletter/content/posts/newsletter/2019-01-04.md

Oh... only now I see the PR comments

jc: s/20th anniversary of the first Jabber server release./20th anniversary of Jabber./ please. I think it's more weightily and more approriate

Ge0rG: I wrote it a bit different from that...

Not sure if it's too short or dry now

jc: it's perfect. I'm trying to think of a good bridge to the Linux Journal article

"... fitting the spirit of the anniversary season, the linux journal has a reminder on why vendor lock-in in instant-messaging is a bad thing" ?

To be completely honest, I wasn't that impressed with the Linux Journal article

I think I could write something better

I haven’t read it

but don't have the time anymore

> Linux Journal has published an article [Lessons in Vendor Lock-in: Messaging], reflecting over the last 20 years of instant messaging and lamenting the fact that open and standardized messaging hasn't taken off as expected.

jc: you could, I could. But we didn't. That article is good enough and we are EBUSY

Ge0rG: reflecting "on", not over

👍

there is a linux mag interview with jeremie from 2001.

oli: Link?

http://www.linux-mag.com/id/902/

http://www.linux-mag.com/id/902/

I find "lament" a bit whiney, but this might be my non-native tongue speaking

The article is whiny

The German translations sound a bit worse to me TBH

Than how I read "lament"... but we can change it

I don't like the word "lament" either, but lack a proper alternative

omit the entire half-sentence?

We can just remove the word...

> We can just remove the word... 👍

I think it's much better now, pls have a look

I also link to the Linux Mag article and /. announcement

very good

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1020882444493039840

I like it

oli: Paywalled

it opens in firefox android

cool, thanks for all the suggestions and feedback

It really improves the quality of the newsletter

👍

jc: when will you bring it live? This is something that deserves some HN karma, and the valley nerds typically only wake up at noon ;)

I just merged...

We can link the original Slashdot link to HN or debacle's blog post

I don't think we need to wait for the newsletter

But in any case, i'll be up after the next automatic build

BTW... we have now 182 subscribers

Still growing every month

Not a crap load, but something

that's... rather tiny, I'd say

jc: I'm just saying that the ideal time to submit to HN will be in ~4hr

ok

I never try to time it like that

whenever you submit, you need something like 4-5 upvotes in the first minutes to get it onto the frontpage

Yes, so we can coordinate here, but in 4-5 hours there's a good chance I'm in town

But I have a mobile communications device

Yeah, it's an unfortunate time for many.

So let's do it a bit earlier... there are also europeans who can upvote

And Africans 🙂

I'm going to send out the newsletter now... last chance or forever hold your peace!

jc, try to do it the closest to that time though.

heh, I see now for the first time that the newsletter emails come from the "XMPP Software Foundation"

You can publish the newsletter now and hope nobody submits it to hn in the next 4h

No-one's ever submitted it to HN I think

I would not submit it, but rather debacle's blog post or the slashdot announcement

I'd submit all three.

the wsj article, unpaywalled: https://outline.com/Aac7fH

So if we all meet here at 16:00 UTC to submit and upvote, we can make front-page

Ge0rG: OK

(that's massive over engineering to get the attention of some valley bros)

Indeed

Things you have to do today to get some attention..

do i need a user account?

And they will certainly be the firsts to whine about it, "isn't XMPP dead already?"

"What you don't use Slack?"

oli: if you want to be able to comment and vote, yes

pep.: The main arguments usually are 1. XML, yuck! 2. Clients all suck and look old

pep., fun part: jeremie worked on telehash and community support is on slack

jc, yeah I know these arguments

my main "argument" would be: matrix is the new jabber

You mean matrix is redoing jabber? :)

there is no link to the newsletter at https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/News_and_Articles_for_the_next_XMPP_Newsletter

fixed.

That Linux Journal article uses "Jabber" and "XMPP" weirdly. I know it's never really clear, but I don't think "XMPP plugins" are a thing at all (nor is a "Jabber plugin", or maybe it was at the time?)

btw, is the jabber server software from 1999 still available? was it ever released as open source?

oli: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabberd14

I don't find any jabber server in 1999

from 1999

In the jabberd14 repository the first commit was in June 2000. https://github.com/mawis/jabberd/tree/jer/jabberd14/jabberd

There is a jabberd2 too if you want

oli: that looks like an import from whatever (svn) into git, without keeping the history

can somebody parse out of https://web.archive.org/web/20060615062408/http://svn.jabberd.org:80/

I'm asking, because that code is also part of the jabber history. Some guy ported KDE 1 and KDE 2 to compile on recent Linux.

https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://svn.jabberd.org:80/tags/pre-1_1_3/jabberd14/ is empty :(

Hey folks, ready for submission?

Who's going to submit what? debacle, do you want to submit your blog post?

I can submit anything/everything

IMO it would be better if each article is submitted by someone else

Would look a bit less like spamming

right

Ge0rG: you could submit the Slashdot article, and I'll submit the newsletter (or vice versa)

And debacle the blog post

or someone else

the Slashdot article has a sub-optimal title for HN, but we can try

You can choose your own title though

jc: but it's frowned upon

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18824911

jc: you submit the newsletter and I can do either debacle's post or the Slashdot

Let's see...

See above...

Link Mauve, Neustradamus, debacle, nyco, SouL, pep.: please upvote https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18824911

I still don’t have an account there.

done

tx

Also, you should instead recommend to go to the front page, then click on it, then upvote.

I remember people saying otherwise it doesn’t count, or even counts as spam.

ah ok

hmm, I can't un-upvote it..

pep., don’t, you’ve done it already.

Not the front-page, because it isn't there

But it's here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newest

jc: submission guidelines say that the HN title must match the article title, so now you need to go and change the newsletter title on xmpp.org!

so complicated..

Ge0rG: meh

vast majority of article titles and submissions don't match

All that for a bunch of SF geeks

Here's another one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18824957

post that on xsf@ ?

oh you did

I wonder how often they update the frontpage

Maybe we have been detected to be a bot network

I can't see anything in top150

Well, upvotes within seconds of being submitted are probably suspicious

Let's not get paranoid people 🙂

:P

jc: too late

The problem with posting at the most "optimised" time is that everybody else also does it

We're not paranoid, there are conspiracies everywhere!!

The Slack article that I posted that was front-page for many hours was around 12:00 EST

Getting up to 15-20 points would be good :x

the Slashdot article is #26! \o/

Congrats 🙂

Newsletter is nowhere to be found... must be the dang title!

jc: nah, title complaints come later when mods have had a look

Is HN free software?

Doesn't look like it

Not sure, but there are many free clones

I'd be curious to know how they do this

pep.: no, it's Cloud SaaS

using some lisp magic IIRC

It's funny the newsletter has a few more votes, but the slashdot article has a comment by yours truly

Maybe because it still doesn’t have any comment?

Maybe, but I don't think it'll help if I comment since I submitted it

No, but someone else could.

Yes, someone with an acount... ahem

Not exactly sure what to comment about

pep., how exciting this is!

How you’re gonna bake a cake.

Stuff like that.

Do sockpuppets need people to pull strings nowadays? /o\

Talking in public is not exactly my thing you know :P

Here, commented.

Ge0rG, the slashdot article is going down!!

lol

Looks like we need reinforcements

They're trying to put Jabber down! 陰謀だ！

Damn, now I have the song in my head.

:DD

Link?

Still hanging in there by a thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZlqGD2FIs8, or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOlXkj-RO-M

jc: https://fr.movim.eu/?blog/debacle%40movim.eu/happy-birthday-xmpp-20th-anniversary-of-1st-jabber-server-IBmtu8

jc, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65dYsNJ3548 a scene from the anime with subtitles :p

....aaaaaand it's gone

noooo

陰謀だ！！

well... looks like the newsletter one was shadowbanned...

it's nowhere to be found

jc: at least you are not shadowbanned.

I wouldn't know, would I? I guess I"m not since you see my comments

jc: exactly. Also you can open a private tab and point it to HN

jc: want to make another approach?

you can try on facebook 💩

I'll pass

Ge0rG: what do you have in mind?

I'm ok with calling it a day and moving on, but someone else can still submit debacle's article

jc: submit debacle's post

There is also still reddit and other places

jc: so either you submit it now, or I submit it and you upvote and then you can call it a day :D

Ge0rG: what's funny is that I see my karma only going up by 2, but the newsletter post had 9 points, so that sounds almost like 7 points aren't counted (like you suggested)

Ge0rG go for it

jc: "Happy Birthday, XMPP 20th Anniversary of Jabber" on https://news.ycombinator.com/newest

The slshdot article is back as #30 !!

And the happy birthday thing is #6

wth

#3!

jc, smart comment

Back from the dead

#2!

Ge0rG: good of you to suggest we try one more time. 3rd time lucky

down to #6 now

yeah and it's not going up

I'm debugging something, so might leave/join the room constantly, please bear with me

Ge0rG, you're stilling all debacle's karma :P

You snooze you lose

arnaudj, do you plan on translating this month’s newsletter? If not soon, I’ll start something.

I could help translating to german... Link Mauve

That’d be very welcome!

> That’d be very welcome! How to, where to and till when?

erkanfiles, hmm, the easiest way is to copy the English version into an Etherpad if you are working on it with other people (even if just for proof-reading), and then start translating. :)

It can be quite frustrating if this is your first time, don’t hesitate to ask us for explanations for what something means.

There is no deadline, you can do it pretty much whenever you want.

Where may I find the current version? Are there existing etherpads or shall I create one?

> It can be quite frustrating if this is your first time, don’t hesitate to ask us for explanations for what something means. Thx, Ge0rG helped me out with the minutes from dec 20th, there were some points I didnt get ;-)

https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/content/posts/newsletter/2019-01-04.md would be the current version.

Most likely the final one.

I think we should update the xmpp.org website to host the translations

Then translators can simply work there and there's one standardized way of doing things

Can Pelican handle i18n?

Would actually be good to have FR and DE (and ES etc.) versions of the site

erkanfiles: sorry, I didn't manage to forward the minutes yet. 😥

Link Mauve, if you have that etherpad up I can help

pep., haven’t started yet.

https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/Kk5I02DivH

For french

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18826383

Just wow!

Link Mauve: I can join the translation effort tomorrow

I didn’t start yet, but pep. did.

Think, liberloebi will help me with translation to german

Still #11 on HN!

Ge0rG: ?

erkanfiles: https://news.ycombinator.com/

Oh sorry, I haven't reloaded. It's down to #34