XSF Communications Team - 2019-09-10

I am scheduling the tweets it is a good practice to remind and publish multiple times on Twitter

please all review: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Basic_communication_guide_for_XMPP_techies

I like it. Probably some phrases to change but I think that's good advice.

I'm really not good at illustrations though, and I'd rather not waste time on it if I can :x

nyco: well, I think there a lot of people that find such repetition quite annoying (like me). Especially if there's nothing in between.

it's horrible. we gotta start over from scratch and rewrite it in rust

ralphm: agreed.

I generally unfollow accounts that do that

At least that do it in an obvious and annoying easy

Indeed

I'm happy not to be on Twitter

the people in this room are not targeted, obvioulsy

So I'd like to channel the discussion about the usage of the @xmpp twitter account into here.

ralphm: IIRC you had a comment on that as well?

Nÿco: ping :)

ping what?

why the smiley?

hey commTeam, we are quite passive here, wanna stay that way?

Nÿco: I agree that we need to make some noise, but in the form of actual content and not just by spamming slightly-related word-lists

some tweets do not kill a few repetitions on Twitter is a must, because once posted, a tweet is drown and forgotten

If there is an article about XMPP, or a newsletter, fire it out! If there is none: write an article and tweet it

Nÿco: I'm actually reading all my Twitter timeline.

that's your opinion: it is advise and a good, proven practice to promote newsletter for a week, via a few tweets, showing/summarising different parts of the content

you're welcome

cross-posting from xsf@, as it is publically archived: <Guus>  Are we intentionally sending out repeated newsletter tweets? It is starting to get annoying. <Guus>  nyco are you triggering these? Maybe cut down on the frequency?

you do read the whole thing, most people don't again you're not targeted here

Nÿco: our feed reads like a hyperactive ADHD teenager.

again your opinion

and that's not nice to say

and who is "our"

?

Nÿco: @xmpp

oh our, what have you done for it?

next time, let's schedule together the tweets, ok?

quite sure you agree on the checklist: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/News_and_Articles_for_the_next_XMPP_Newsletter#Newsletter_editors:_TODO.2Fchecklist

Nÿco: I do agree on the checklist, yes. But I don't see "make five tweets for one newsletter" there.

five is ok, all are different, each have likes/retweets from different accounts

it is working...

not for you, and for a few members, I have heard and understood

Nÿco: sorry for my frustration, but you were disappeared from XMPP and still tweeting, and apparently nobody was able to reach out to you.

this burst is not meant for you

nobody tried

your frustration must not translate in burst of misplaced opinions and aggressivity

I have heard what a handful of the inner circle are complaining about I anticipated it I took the risk so far, it pays off

Nÿco: okay, please let me focus and rephrase my criticism. The twitter wave really looks like cheap SEO. For example, https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1169145821704708097 is listing a bunch of XMPP implementations and a link to the subscription page (not even to the newsletter), and most of the implementations aren't even covered by the last newsletter.

> The twitter wave really looks like cheap SEO. Twitter is "cheap" It is NOT SEO, does not contribute to it

Just because Google isn't indexing twitter?

> For example, https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1169145821704708097 5 people not in the inner circle have liked it, contributing to its amplification proofs by the number, not any opinion

I hear you, do you hear me?

Nÿco: how many people stopped following @xmpp since september 3rd?

and we have two new newsletter subscribers, which is low

I don't know, do you?

and *WHO* would have unfollowed AND followed? number are important here, indeed, but also who we target

Nÿco: you should

should whatN

Nÿco: you should know how many people stopped following on twitter.

reach out, touch people outside our community, expand

you should too

as you should contribute to the newsletter and tweets

Nÿco: no. I'm not the one doing risky campaigns.

after all, you are a product manker and should know how to promote

you risk even more not doing anything

and the risk is your opinion, again

Nÿco: you did a campaign. Fine. You didn't align with the commteam. Not so fine. You didn't even measure the negative impact. Not fine at all.

I have the account, I will get numbers

Nÿco: that would be awesome

the commTeam did nothing

did you measure?

enough... :'(

dormant accounts show a wrong image

a few repetitions are at worst some kind of annoying

Nÿco: please don't get me wrong. It's really great to increase our outreach, and to do experiments, but when we do so, we should know the pros as well as the cons

our survival is at stake here

Nÿco: yes, but what do you gain if 100 people unsubscribe because they think it is spamming, and only 10 new people subscribe at the same time?

if it is great, then so be it, end of discussion, no need to thank me

when I try to get feedback before doing something I got at best a "yeah, cool" and that's it

teh commTeam is not active, I know, I contributed to create it years ago

number and WHO, again, "WHO" is important 100 XSF members unfollow? good! 10 new key developers and decision makers? FAR BETTER!!!

while we argue, I can't search the analytics

https://analytics.twitter.com/

Nÿco: who can?

let me check

btw, I have improved my spreadsheet regarding the newsletter

https://movim.eu:5280/upload/1ab8cd5d50a081e2fdf8ce43dca3047f8bd49889/XJSI6xSnciPpYpG43zrpH8t0goFs4Zx6Tu7GjQRf/Capture_d_e_cran_2019-09-10_a__16.15.10.png

Nÿco: is the above chart the number of subscriptions?

yep

JC's accomplishments, congrats and thanks to him

I only contributing most links, and a few copywriting

JC did setup the newsletter and blog post habits

so I can't find the @xmpp password: someone, I can't know who, added me to Tweetdeck so I can post

analytics are available to the ones possessing the password

some individual public numbers of available on each tweet

if you got the account, individual tweets have the full funnel

analytics website is a high-level view

generally, you need more than Twitter's analytics

you need to gather and aggregate all your channels

I'd say LinkedIn is a good channel

it is worthwhile to invest it

Do you have to pay for linkedin?

pleas note: on LinkedIn it is not acceptable to post multiple times about a blog post, due to post retention and natural amplification on Twitter it is different and due to the fire-and-forget nature of that platform

nope

how come can you not know that, and criticise the communication effort made? either you know how to promote or not

https://www.linkedin.com/company/xmpp-standards-foundation/about/

who does it belong to?

on Twitter, individual and company/organisations have similar accounts

on LinkedIn, both have different nature, and thus it is harder for an org to promote content, still possible

on a FB page for example, it is almost impossible

btw, it has been mentionned that we could fusion commeTeam and SCAM, as there is common

sorry, correction: 7 new subscribers on the newsletter since latest one published my bad

I was looking at the new subscribers since last time I checked, on sep 9

in other words: we gained 16 new subscribers doing nothing during 2 months we gained 7 new subscribers, posting the latest and tweeting

unfortunately, we don't know where the new subscribers are coming from... unless, we have analytics on our website

Nÿco: it looks like we don't have analytics on the website

later, at the end of the month, I'll schedule a few tweets: * promote the newsletter, encourage people to subscribe before the next one is sent * call for contributions, so makers can promote their work

that's a shame, I'd blame no one, cause I know...

Nÿco: both of these goals are worthy, and maybe they can fit into a single tweet? ;)

I propose to schedule tweets on the wiki so it's transparent

no they can't, different goals, different targets

the likers/retweters will be different

Interesting point.

Nÿco: maybe we need different twitter accounts then? One for developers, one for... dunno?

note: I have promoted the XMPP newsletter in a company's newsletter, contributing probably a few hits and no new subscribers

sure, what would be your segmentation? who would take care of the different accounts?

I'd go for LinkedIn first

Nÿco: The Matrix is doing a weekly "This week in matrix" video podcast. How about that? ;)

no go

We can reuse the idea, but not enough content for that

we don't have the content, we don't have the resources

Yeah, both

I will not do it, too much effort

If developers would write more about their projects, maybe

*were to write more

YES PLEASE: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Basic_communication_guide_for_XMPP_techies

I hardly managed to write the ten-years-of-yaxim blog post in time

and that was great

thx

A for the question on who admin's the XMPP Standards Foundation organization over at LinkedIn, that's Neustradamus. I've asked him to hand it over to me (and I'd in turn hand it over to commteam), but so far he hasn't.

one of the best article of the summer!

Nÿco, I have seen that yes, I also should write stuff

It was not half as great as I wanted it to be

we should all write, we must write, we have no choice

Ge0rG, write about your current efforts on MAM? :)

it is greater published than in someone's head

pep.: that would be a technical blog post on my personal blog that's not on the planet

I confess I do not blog about Nayego neither

Better than nothing, it can still be linked on the newsletter

Nÿco: do you know that old saying? "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach"

I do not agree with that, but that's funny :)

done is better than perfect

Nÿco: yeah

Hey guys, I would like to thank you both for discussing this, I'm super glad about Nÿco putting all this effort, I think it is important to state that. I'm short on time this week, but I would like to get up to speed with him and try to align the CommTeam on this matters, like scheduled tweets and so on. I feel I would like to discuss about how frequent the Newsletter is sent out and such stuff, but can't right now. I will follow the conversations and say something later today/this week

my last tech-post on xmpp is from 2017

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Twitter_scheduling

align what commTeam?

Nÿco: to make a constructive proposal: if there is no new content (i.e. blog post / newsletter), limit twitter posts to one per week

retweets don't count into that of course

there are doers, and others

no

one tweet per week is not enough in a period of news, like a newsletter

3 per week is cool

Nÿco: 3 per day is also cool, if there is actual new content

please discuss frequency and content, I will listen and adapt, but please get to speed first

Could we maybe use what's coming in for the next newsletter and have Tweets on those when they come in?

note: thinking out loud on the newsletter, maybe we should split the specs from the other content, like we used to do for the roundup

I think people would be less annoyed by repeats if there's stuff in between.

assumption again, ready to listen

again, people annoyed here are not the targets

Ok, let me rephrase that: *I* would be less annoyed.

if those people unfollow, then it is not a problem

yep, correct :)

if the communities feel like we are reviving the "defunct XMPP", then good

1k+ follower is not where we should be

Nÿco: so let's check how many people stopped following on twitter since the last newsletter

I can't, said that, repeating

vs. how many started

Nÿco: yes, but maybe ralphm can

again, again, again, not how many, but who followed/unfollowed more important: who has been reached

message in a bottle: we need analytics, both Twitter and the website

Nÿco: we can't measure the *who*, but we can measure the *how many*

Twitter alone is not enough, I repeat

Ge0rG: I don't know if I can keep track of number of followers on @xmpp.

analytics only make sense if we have somebody look at them

yes, you can, with unfollowers products

ralphm: do you have the login credentials?

>align what commTeam? Let's stay calm Nÿco, jcbrand you and me are active (as in we are very reachable online), just need to write down tasks and check what can we do.

ralphm: maybe you can see it on https://analytics.twitter.com then?

feeling pressure and aggression

let's ALL calm, no only me (and you're welcome)

I'm not sure who has credentials. I might have had credentials to a thing that allowed me to post.

But I forget what it is named

ralphm: something-i-team-something?

I am not on iteam

Nÿco: would it be ok to move the wiki twitter pages to under /CommTeam/?

sure, please do, and the original link

Nÿco: no aggression intended, I just wanted to state how I felt when seeing those tweets come in.

that is what I feel, no one can deny this

Nÿco: wiki does that automatically

good

Nÿco: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/CommTeam/Twitter_scheduling

>let's ALL calm, no only me (and you're welcome) Don't take it wrong :( I'm happy to have you working hard here

does not look that way: "we will align", looks like you are correcting my, condescending teacher

let's align what' to be aligned

if there is a team, then let's align it

let's not slow down contributions, rather encourage them, and help people get up to speed

I see a lot of help on the git

I will help regarding social media

but I won't tell anyone how to use git

Ok then I'm sorry

Nÿco, SouL: it would be great if you could tag all the commteam-relevant pages with [[Category:CommTeam]]

in the wiki

good idea, if there is a need, seems like premature optim to me, but I may be wrong

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/CommTeam/Twitter_scheduling#Template

added my intentions, I will fill later

to all: good for transparency and collaboration, I double-approve but it is much much more work: copy, paste, adapt, download, upload...

goota go, kids cannot wait

thx all for this discussion, I feel like the collab might take off