XSF Communications Team - 2019-09-10

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  16. nyco

    I am scheduling the tweets it is a good practice to remind and publish multiple times on Twitter

  17. nyco

    please all review: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Basic_communication_guide_for_XMPP_techies

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  21. pep.

    I like it. Probably some phrases to change but I think that's good advice.

  22. pep.

    I'm really not good at illustrations though, and I'd rather not waste time on it if I can :x

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  24. ralphm

    nyco: well, I think there a lot of people that find such repetition quite annoying (like me). Especially if there's nothing in between.

  25. tom

    it's horrible. we gotta start over from scratch and rewrite it in rust

  26. jcbrand

    ralphm: agreed.

  27. jcbrand

    I generally unfollow accounts that do that

  28. jcbrand

    At least that do it in an obvious and annoying easy

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  35. pep.

    I'm happy not to be on Twitter

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  43. Nÿco

    the people in this room are not targeted, obvioulsy

  44. Ge0rG

    So I'd like to channel the discussion about the usage of the @xmpp twitter account into here.

  45. Ge0rG

    ralphm: IIRC you had a comment on that as well?

  46. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: ping :)

  47. Nÿco

    ping what?

  48. Nÿco

    why the smiley?

  49. Nÿco

    hey commTeam, we are quite passive here, wanna stay that way?

  50. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: I agree that we need to make some noise, but in the form of actual content and not just by spamming slightly-related word-lists

  51. Nÿco

    some tweets do not kill a few repetitions on Twitter is a must, because once posted, a tweet is drown and forgotten

  52. Ge0rG

    If there is an article about XMPP, or a newsletter, fire it out! If there is none: write an article and tweet it

  53. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: I'm actually reading all my Twitter timeline.

  54. Nÿco

    that's your opinion: it is advise and a good, proven practice to promote newsletter for a week, via a few tweets, showing/summarising different parts of the content

  55. Nÿco

    you're welcome

  56. Ge0rG

    cross-posting from xsf@, as it is publically archived: <Guus>  Are we intentionally sending out repeated newsletter tweets? It is starting to get annoying. <Guus>  nyco are you triggering these? Maybe cut down on the frequency?

  57. Nÿco

    you do read the whole thing, most people don't again you're not targeted here

  58. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: our feed reads like a hyperactive ADHD teenager.

  59. Nÿco

    again your opinion

  60. Nÿco

    and that's not nice to say

  61. Nÿco

    and who is "our"

  62. Nÿco


  63. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: @xmpp

  64. Nÿco

    oh our, what have you done for it?

  65. Nÿco

    next time, let's schedule together the tweets, ok?

  66. Nÿco

    quite sure you agree on the checklist: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/News_and_Articles_for_the_next_XMPP_Newsletter#Newsletter_editors:_TODO.2Fchecklist

  67. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: I do agree on the checklist, yes. But I don't see "make five tweets for one newsletter" there.

  68. Nÿco

    five is ok, all are different, each have likes/retweets from different accounts

  69. Nÿco

    it is working...

  70. Nÿco

    not for you, and for a few members, I have heard and understood

  71. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: sorry for my frustration, but you were disappeared from XMPP and still tweeting, and apparently nobody was able to reach out to you.

  72. Nÿco

    this burst is not meant for you

  73. Nÿco

    nobody tried

  74. Nÿco

    your frustration must not translate in burst of misplaced opinions and aggressivity

  75. Nÿco

    I have heard what a handful of the inner circle are complaining about I anticipated it I took the risk so far, it pays off

  76. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: okay, please let me focus and rephrase my criticism. The twitter wave really looks like cheap SEO. For example, https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1169145821704708097 is listing a bunch of XMPP implementations and a link to the subscription page (not even to the newsletter), and most of the implementations aren't even covered by the last newsletter.

  77. Nÿco

    > The twitter wave really looks like cheap SEO. Twitter is "cheap" It is NOT SEO, does not contribute to it

  78. Ge0rG

    Just because Google isn't indexing twitter?

  79. Nÿco

    > For example, https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1169145821704708097 5 people not in the inner circle have liked it, contributing to its amplification proofs by the number, not any opinion

  80. Nÿco

    I hear you, do you hear me?

  81. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: how many people stopped following @xmpp since september 3rd?

  82. Nÿco

    and we have two new newsletter subscribers, which is low

  83. Nÿco

    I don't know, do you?

  84. Nÿco

    and *WHO* would have unfollowed AND followed? number are important here, indeed, but also who we target

  85. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: you should

  86. Nÿco

    should whatN

  87. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: you should know how many people stopped following on twitter.

  88. Nÿco

    reach out, touch people outside our community, expand

  89. Nÿco

    you should too

  90. Nÿco

    as you should contribute to the newsletter and tweets

  91. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: no. I'm not the one doing risky campaigns.

  92. Nÿco

    after all, you are a product manker and should know how to promote

  93. Nÿco

    you risk even more not doing anything

  94. Nÿco

    and the risk is your opinion, again

  95. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: you did a campaign. Fine. You didn't align with the commteam. Not so fine. You didn't even measure the negative impact. Not fine at all.

  96. Nÿco

    I have the account, I will get numbers

  97. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: that would be awesome

  98. Nÿco

    the commTeam did nothing

  99. Nÿco

    did you measure?

  100. Nÿco

    enough... :'(

  101. Nÿco

    dormant accounts show a wrong image

  102. Nÿco

    a few repetitions are at worst some kind of annoying

  103. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: please don't get me wrong. It's really great to increase our outreach, and to do experiments, but when we do so, we should know the pros as well as the cons

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  105. Nÿco

    our survival is at stake here

  106. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: yes, but what do you gain if 100 people unsubscribe because they think it is spamming, and only 10 new people subscribe at the same time?

  107. Nÿco

    if it is great, then so be it, end of discussion, no need to thank me

  108. Nÿco

    when I try to get feedback before doing something I got at best a "yeah, cool" and that's it

  109. Nÿco

    teh commTeam is not active, I know, I contributed to create it years ago

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  111. Nÿco

    number and WHO, again, "WHO" is important 100 XSF members unfollow? good! 10 new key developers and decision makers? FAR BETTER!!!

  112. Nÿco

    while we argue, I can't search the analytics

  113. Nÿco


  114. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: who can?

  115. Nÿco

    let me check

  116. Nÿco

    btw, I have improved my spreadsheet regarding the newsletter

  117. Nÿco


  118. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: is the above chart the number of subscriptions?

  119. Nÿco


  120. Nÿco

    JC's accomplishments, congrats and thanks to him

  121. Nÿco

    I only contributing most links, and a few copywriting

  122. Nÿco

    JC did setup the newsletter and blog post habits

  123. Nÿco

    so I can't find the @xmpp password: someone, I can't know who, added me to Tweetdeck so I can post

  124. Nÿco

    analytics are available to the ones possessing the password

  125. Nÿco

    some individual public numbers of available on each tweet

  126. Nÿco

    if you got the account, individual tweets have the full funnel

  127. Nÿco

    analytics website is a high-level view

  128. Nÿco

    generally, you need more than Twitter's analytics

  129. Nÿco

    you need to gather and aggregate all your channels

  130. Nÿco

    I'd say LinkedIn is a good channel

  131. Nÿco

    it is worthwhile to invest it

  132. Ge0rG

    Do you have to pay for linkedin?

  133. Nÿco

    pleas note: on LinkedIn it is not acceptable to post multiple times about a blog post, due to post retention and natural amplification on Twitter it is different and due to the fire-and-forget nature of that platform

  134. Nÿco


  135. Nÿco

    how come can you not know that, and criticise the communication effort made? either you know how to promote or not

  136. Nÿco


  137. Nÿco

    who does it belong to?

  138. Nÿco

    on Twitter, individual and company/organisations have similar accounts

  139. Nÿco

    on LinkedIn, both have different nature, and thus it is harder for an org to promote content, still possible

  140. Nÿco

    on a FB page for example, it is almost impossible

  141. Nÿco

    btw, it has been mentionned that we could fusion commeTeam and SCAM, as there is common

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  143. Nÿco

    sorry, correction: 7 new subscribers on the newsletter since latest one published my bad

  144. Nÿco

    I was looking at the new subscribers since last time I checked, on sep 9

  145. Nÿco

    in other words: we gained 16 new subscribers doing nothing during 2 months we gained 7 new subscribers, posting the latest and tweeting

  146. Nÿco

    unfortunately, we don't know where the new subscribers are coming from... unless, we have analytics on our website

  147. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: it looks like we don't have analytics on the website

  148. Nÿco

    later, at the end of the month, I'll schedule a few tweets: * promote the newsletter, encourage people to subscribe before the next one is sent * call for contributions, so makers can promote their work

  149. Nÿco

    that's a shame, I'd blame no one, cause I know...

  150. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: both of these goals are worthy, and maybe they can fit into a single tweet? ;)

  151. Nÿco

    I propose to schedule tweets on the wiki so it's transparent

  152. Nÿco

    no they can't, different goals, different targets

  153. Nÿco

    the likers/retweters will be different

  154. Ge0rG

    Interesting point.

  155. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: maybe we need different twitter accounts then? One for developers, one for... dunno?

  156. Nÿco

    note: I have promoted the XMPP newsletter in a company's newsletter, contributing probably a few hits and no new subscribers

  157. Nÿco

    sure, what would be your segmentation? who would take care of the different accounts?

  158. Nÿco

    I'd go for LinkedIn first

  159. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: The Matrix is doing a weekly "This week in matrix" video podcast. How about that? ;)

  160. Nÿco

    no go

  161. pep.

    We can reuse the idea, but not enough content for that

  162. Nÿco

    we don't have the content, we don't have the resources

  163. pep.

    Yeah, both

  164. Nÿco

    I will not do it, too much effort

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  166. pep.

    If developers would write more about their projects, maybe

  167. pep.

    *were to write more

  168. Nÿco

    YES PLEASE: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Basic_communication_guide_for_XMPP_techies

  169. Ge0rG

    I hardly managed to write the ten-years-of-yaxim blog post in time

  170. Nÿco

    and that was great

  171. Nÿco


  172. ralphm

    A for the question on who admin's the XMPP Standards Foundation organization over at LinkedIn, that's Neustradamus. I've asked him to hand it over to me (and I'd in turn hand it over to commteam), but so far he hasn't.

  173. Nÿco

    one of the best article of the summer!

  174. pep.

    Nÿco, I have seen that yes, I also should write stuff

  175. Ge0rG

    It was not half as great as I wanted it to be

  176. Nÿco

    we should all write, we must write, we have no choice

  177. pep.

    Ge0rG, write about your current efforts on MAM? :)

  178. Nÿco

    it is greater published than in someone's head

  179. Ge0rG

    pep.: that would be a technical blog post on my personal blog that's not on the planet

  180. Nÿco

    I confess I do not blog about Nayego neither

  181. pep.

    Better than nothing, it can still be linked on the newsletter

  182. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: do you know that old saying? "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach"

  183. Nÿco

    I do not agree with that, but that's funny :)

  184. Nÿco

    done is better than perfect

  185. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: yeah

  186. SouL

    Hey guys, I would like to thank you both for discussing this, I'm super glad about Nÿco putting all this effort, I think it is important to state that. I'm short on time this week, but I would like to get up to speed with him and try to align the CommTeam on this matters, like scheduled tweets and so on. I feel I would like to discuss about how frequent the Newsletter is sent out and such stuff, but can't right now. I will follow the conversations and say something later today/this week

  187. Ge0rG

    my last tech-post on xmpp is from 2017

  188. Nÿco


  189. Nÿco

    align what commTeam?

  190. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: to make a constructive proposal: if there is no new content (i.e. blog post / newsletter), limit twitter posts to one per week

  191. Ge0rG

    retweets don't count into that of course

  192. Nÿco

    there are doers, and others

  193. Nÿco


  194. Nÿco

    one tweet per week is not enough in a period of news, like a newsletter

  195. Nÿco

    3 per week is cool

  196. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: 3 per day is also cool, if there is actual new content

  197. Nÿco

    please discuss frequency and content, I will listen and adapt, but please get to speed first

  198. ralphm

    Could we maybe use what's coming in for the next newsletter and have Tweets on those when they come in?

  199. Nÿco

    note: thinking out loud on the newsletter, maybe we should split the specs from the other content, like we used to do for the roundup

  200. ralphm

    I think people would be less annoyed by repeats if there's stuff in between.

  201. Nÿco

    assumption again, ready to listen

  202. Nÿco

    again, people annoyed here are not the targets

  203. ralphm

    Ok, let me rephrase that: *I* would be less annoyed.

  204. Nÿco

    if those people unfollow, then it is not a problem

  205. Nÿco

    yep, correct :)

  206. Nÿco

    if the communities feel like we are reviving the "defunct XMPP", then good

  207. Nÿco

    1k+ follower is not where we should be

  208. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: so let's check how many people stopped following on twitter since the last newsletter

  209. Nÿco

    I can't, said that, repeating

  210. Ge0rG

    vs. how many started

  211. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: yes, but maybe ralphm can

  212. Nÿco

    again, again, again, not how many, but who followed/unfollowed more important: who has been reached

  213. Nÿco

    message in a bottle: we need analytics, both Twitter and the website

  214. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: we can't measure the *who*, but we can measure the *how many*

  215. Nÿco

    Twitter alone is not enough, I repeat

  216. ralphm

    Ge0rG: I don't know if I can keep track of number of followers on @xmpp.

  217. Ge0rG

    analytics only make sense if we have somebody look at them

  218. Nÿco

    yes, you can, with unfollowers products

  219. Ge0rG

    ralphm: do you have the login credentials?

  220. SouL

    >align what commTeam? Let's stay calm Nÿco, jcbrand you and me are active (as in we are very reachable online), just need to write down tasks and check what can we do.

  221. Ge0rG

    ralphm: maybe you can see it on https://analytics.twitter.com then?

  222. Nÿco

    feeling pressure and aggression

  223. Nÿco

    let's ALL calm, no only me (and you're welcome)

  224. ralphm

    I'm not sure who has credentials. I might have had credentials to a thing that allowed me to post.

  225. ralphm

    But I forget what it is named

  226. Ge0rG

    ralphm: something-i-team-something?

  227. ralphm

    I am not on iteam

  228. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: would it be ok to move the wiki twitter pages to under /CommTeam/?

  229. Nÿco

    sure, please do, and the original link

  230. ralphm

    Nÿco: no aggression intended, I just wanted to state how I felt when seeing those tweets come in.

  231. Nÿco

    that is what I feel, no one can deny this

  232. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: wiki does that automatically

  233. Nÿco


  234. Ge0rG

    Nÿco: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/CommTeam/Twitter_scheduling

  235. SouL

    >let's ALL calm, no only me (and you're welcome) Don't take it wrong :( I'm happy to have you working hard here

  236. Nÿco

    does not look that way: "we will align", looks like you are correcting my, condescending teacher

  237. Nÿco

    let's align what' to be aligned

  238. Nÿco

    if there is a team, then let's align it

  239. Nÿco

    let's not slow down contributions, rather encourage them, and help people get up to speed

  240. Nÿco

    I see a lot of help on the git

  241. Nÿco

    I will help regarding social media

  242. Nÿco

    but I won't tell anyone how to use git

  243. SouL

    Ok then I'm sorry

  244. Ge0rG

    Nÿco, SouL: it would be great if you could tag all the commteam-relevant pages with [[Category:CommTeam]]

  245. Ge0rG

    in the wiki

  246. Nÿco

    good idea, if there is a need, seems like premature optim to me, but I may be wrong

  247. Nÿco


  248. Nÿco

    added my intentions, I will fill later

  249. Nÿco

    to all: good for transparency and collaboration, I double-approve but it is much much more work: copy, paste, adapt, download, upload...

  250. Nÿco

    goota go, kids cannot wait

  251. Nÿco

    thx all for this discussion, I feel like the collab might take off

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