nycoI am scheduling the tweets
it is a good practice to remind and publish multiple times on Twitter
nycoplease all review: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Basic_communication_guide_for_XMPP_techies
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pep.I like it. Probably some phrases to change but I think that's good advice.
pep.I'm really not good at illustrations though, and I'd rather not waste time on it if I can :x
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ralphmnyco: well, I think there a lot of people that find such repetition quite annoying (like me). Especially if there's nothing in between.
tomit's horrible. we gotta start over from scratch and rewrite it in rust
jcbrandralphm: agreed.
jcbrandI generally unfollow accounts that do that
jcbrandAt least that do it in an obvious and annoying easy
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ralphmIndeed
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pep.I'm happy not to be on Twitter
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Nÿcothe people in this room are not targeted, obvioulsy
Ge0rGSo I'd like to channel the discussion about the usage of the @xmpp twitter account into here.
Ge0rGralphm: IIRC you had a comment on that as well?
Ge0rGNÿco: ping :)
Nÿcoping what?
Nÿcowhy the smiley?
Nÿcohey commTeam, we are quite passive here, wanna stay that way?
Ge0rGNÿco: I agree that we need to make some noise, but in the form of actual content and not just by spamming slightly-related word-lists
Nÿcosome tweets do not kill
a few repetitions on Twitter is a must, because once posted, a tweet is drown and forgotten
Ge0rGIf there is an article about XMPP, or a newsletter, fire it out! If there is none: write an article and tweet it
Ge0rGNÿco: I'm actually reading all my Twitter timeline.
Nÿcothat's your opinion:
it is advise and a good, proven practice to promote newsletter for a week, via a few tweets, showing/summarising different parts of the content
Nÿcoyou're welcome
Ge0rGcross-posting from xsf@, as it is publically archived:
<Guus> Are we intentionally sending out repeated newsletter tweets? It is starting to get annoying.
<Guus> nyco are you triggering these? Maybe cut down on the frequency?
Nÿcoyou do read the whole thing, most people don't
again you're not targeted here
Ge0rGNÿco: our feed reads like a hyperactive ADHD teenager.
Nÿcoagain your opinion
Nÿcoand that's not nice to say
Nÿcoand who is "our"
Nÿco?
Ge0rGNÿco: @xmpp
Nÿcooh our, what have you done for it?
Nÿconext time, let's schedule together the tweets, ok?
Nÿcoquite sure you agree on the checklist: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/News_and_Articles_for_the_next_XMPP_Newsletter#Newsletter_editors:_TODO.2Fchecklist
Ge0rGNÿco: I do agree on the checklist, yes. But I don't see "make five tweets for one newsletter" there.
Nÿcofive is ok, all are different, each have likes/retweets from different accounts
Nÿcoit is working...
Nÿconot for you, and for a few members, I have heard and understood
Ge0rGNÿco: sorry for my frustration, but you were disappeared from XMPP and still tweeting, and apparently nobody was able to reach out to you.
Nÿcothis burst is not meant for you
Nÿconobody tried
Nÿcoyour frustration must not translate in burst of misplaced opinions and aggressivity
NÿcoI have heard what a handful of the inner circle are complaining about
I anticipated it
I took the risk
so far, it pays off
Ge0rGNÿco: okay, please let me focus and rephrase my criticism. The twitter wave really looks like cheap SEO. For example, https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1169145821704708097 is listing a bunch of XMPP implementations and a link to the subscription page (not even to the newsletter), and most of the implementations aren't even covered by the last newsletter.
Nÿco> The twitter wave really looks like cheap SEO.
Twitter is "cheap"
It is NOT SEO, does not contribute to it
Ge0rGJust because Google isn't indexing twitter?
Nÿco> For example, https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1169145821704708097
5 people not in the inner circle have liked it, contributing to its amplification
proofs by the number, not any opinion
NÿcoI hear you, do you hear me?
Ge0rGNÿco: how many people stopped following @xmpp since september 3rd?
Nÿcoand we have two new newsletter subscribers, which is low
NÿcoI don't know, do you?
Nÿcoand *WHO* would have unfollowed AND followed?
number are important here, indeed, but also who we target
Ge0rGNÿco: you should
Nÿcoshould whatN
Ge0rGNÿco: you should know how many people stopped following on twitter.
Nÿcoreach out, touch people outside our community, expand
Nÿcoyou should too
Nÿcoas you should contribute to the newsletter and tweets
Ge0rGNÿco: no. I'm not the one doing risky campaigns.
Nÿcoafter all, you are a product manker and should know how to promote
Nÿcoyou risk even more not doing anything
Nÿcoand the risk is your opinion, again
Ge0rGNÿco: you did a campaign. Fine. You didn't align with the commteam. Not so fine. You didn't even measure the negative impact. Not fine at all.
NÿcoI have the account, I will get numbers
Ge0rGNÿco: that would be awesome
Nÿcothe commTeam did nothing
Nÿcodid you measure?
Nÿcoenough... :'(
Nÿcodormant accounts show a wrong image
Nÿcoa few repetitions are at worst some kind of annoying
Ge0rGNÿco: please don't get me wrong. It's really great to increase our outreach, and to do experiments, but when we do so, we should know the pros as well as the cons
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Nÿcoour survival is at stake here
Ge0rGNÿco: yes, but what do you gain if 100 people unsubscribe because they think it is spamming, and only 10 new people subscribe at the same time?
Nÿcoif it is great, then so be it, end of discussion, no need to thank me
Nÿcowhen I try to get feedback before doing something I got at best a "yeah, cool" and that's it
Nÿcoteh commTeam is not active, I know, I contributed to create it years ago
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Nÿconumber and WHO, again, "WHO" is important
100 XSF members unfollow? good!
10 new key developers and decision makers? FAR BETTER!!!
Nÿcowhile we argue, I can't search the analytics
Nÿcohttps://analytics.twitter.com/
Ge0rGNÿco: who can?
Nÿcolet me check
Nÿcobtw, I have improved my spreadsheet regarding the newsletter
Ge0rGNÿco: is the above chart the number of subscriptions?
Nÿcoyep
NÿcoJC's accomplishments, congrats and thanks to him
NÿcoI only contributing most links, and a few copywriting
NÿcoJC did setup the newsletter and blog post habits
Nÿcoso I can't find the @xmpp password: someone, I can't know who, added me to Tweetdeck so I can post
Nÿcoanalytics are available to the ones possessing the password
Nÿcosome individual public numbers of available on each tweet
Nÿcoif you got the account, individual tweets have the full funnel
Nÿcoanalytics website is a high-level view
Nÿcogenerally, you need more than Twitter's analytics
Nÿcoyou need to gather and aggregate all your channels
NÿcoI'd say LinkedIn is a good channel
Nÿcoit is worthwhile to invest it
Ge0rGDo you have to pay for linkedin?
Nÿcopleas note: on LinkedIn it is not acceptable to post multiple times about a blog post, due to post retention and natural amplification
on Twitter it is different and due to the fire-and-forget nature of that platform
Nÿconope
Nÿcohow come can you not know that, and criticise the communication effort made?
either you know how to promote or not
Nÿcoon Twitter, individual and company/organisations have similar accounts
Nÿcoon LinkedIn, both have different nature, and thus it is harder for an org to promote content, still possible
Nÿcoon a FB page for example, it is almost impossible
Nÿcobtw, it has been mentionned that we could fusion commeTeam and SCAM, as there is common
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Nÿcosorry, correction: 7 new subscribers on the newsletter since latest one published
my bad
NÿcoI was looking at the new subscribers since last time I checked, on sep 9
Nÿcoin other words:
we gained 16 new subscribers doing nothing during 2 months
we gained 7 new subscribers, posting the latest and tweeting
Nÿcounfortunately, we don't know where the new subscribers are coming from... unless, we have analytics on our website
Ge0rGNÿco: it looks like we don't have analytics on the website
Nÿcolater, at the end of the month, I'll schedule a few tweets:
* promote the newsletter, encourage people to subscribe before the next one is sent
* call for contributions, so makers can promote their work
Nÿcothat's a shame, I'd blame no one, cause I know...
Ge0rGNÿco: both of these goals are worthy, and maybe they can fit into a single tweet? ;)
NÿcoI propose to schedule tweets on the wiki so it's transparent
Nÿcono they can't, different goals, different targets
Nÿcothe likers/retweters will be different
Ge0rGInteresting point.
Ge0rGNÿco: maybe we need different twitter accounts then? One for developers, one for... dunno?
Nÿconote: I have promoted the XMPP newsletter in a company's newsletter, contributing probably a few hits and no new subscribers
Nÿcosure, what would be your segmentation? who would take care of the different accounts?
NÿcoI'd go for LinkedIn first
Ge0rGNÿco: The Matrix is doing a weekly "This week in matrix" video podcast. How about that? ;)
Nÿcono go
pep.We can reuse the idea, but not enough content for that
Nÿcowe don't have the content, we don't have the resources
pep.Yeah, both
NÿcoI will not do it, too much effort
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pep.If developers would write more about their projects, maybe
Ge0rGI hardly managed to write the ten-years-of-yaxim blog post in time
Nÿcoand that was great
Nÿcothx
ralphmA for the question on who admin's the XMPP Standards Foundation organization over at LinkedIn, that's Neustradamus. I've asked him to hand it over to me (and I'd in turn hand it over to commteam), but so far he hasn't.
Nÿcoone of the best article of the summer!
pep.Nÿco, I have seen that yes, I also should write stuff
Ge0rGIt was not half as great as I wanted it to be
Nÿcowe should all write, we must write, we have no choice
pep.Ge0rG, write about your current efforts on MAM? :)
Nÿcoit is greater published than in someone's head
Ge0rGpep.: that would be a technical blog post on my personal blog that's not on the planet
NÿcoI confess I do not blog about Nayego neither
pep.Better than nothing, it can still be linked on the newsletter
Ge0rGNÿco: do you know that old saying? "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach"
NÿcoI do not agree with that, but that's funny :)
Nÿcodone is better than perfect
Ge0rGNÿco: yeah
SouLHey guys, I would like to thank you both for discussing this, I'm super glad about Nÿco putting all this effort, I think it is important to state that.
I'm short on time this week, but I would like to get up to speed with him and try to align the CommTeam on this matters, like scheduled tweets and so on.
I feel I would like to discuss about how frequent the Newsletter is sent out and such stuff, but can't right now.
I will follow the conversations and say something later today/this week
Ge0rGmy last tech-post on xmpp is from 2017
Nÿcohttps://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Twitter_scheduling
Nÿcoalign what commTeam?
Ge0rGNÿco: to make a constructive proposal: if there is no new content (i.e. blog post / newsletter), limit twitter posts to one per week
Ge0rGretweets don't count into that of course
Nÿcothere are doers, and others
Nÿcono
Nÿcoone tweet per week is not enough in a period of news, like a newsletter
Nÿco3 per week is cool
Ge0rGNÿco: 3 per day is also cool, if there is actual new content
Nÿcoplease discuss frequency and content, I will listen and adapt, but please get to speed first
ralphmCould we maybe use what's coming in for the next newsletter and have Tweets on those when they come in?
Nÿconote: thinking out loud on the newsletter, maybe we should split the specs from the other content, like we used to do for the roundup
ralphmI think people would be less annoyed by repeats if there's stuff in between.
Nÿcoassumption again, ready to listen
Nÿcoagain, people annoyed here are not the targets
ralphmOk, let me rephrase that: *I* would be less annoyed.
Nÿcoif those people unfollow, then it is not a problem
Nÿcoyep, correct :)
Nÿcoif the communities feel like we are reviving the "defunct XMPP", then good
Nÿco1k+ follower is not where we should be
Ge0rGNÿco: so let's check how many people stopped following on twitter since the last newsletter
NÿcoI can't, said that, repeating
Ge0rGvs. how many started
Ge0rGNÿco: yes, but maybe ralphm can
Nÿcoagain, again, again, not how many, but who followed/unfollowed
more important: who has been reached
Nÿcomessage in a bottle: we need analytics, both Twitter and the website
Ge0rGNÿco: we can't measure the *who*, but we can measure the *how many*
NÿcoTwitter alone is not enough, I repeat
ralphmGe0rG: I don't know if I can keep track of number of followers on @xmpp.
Ge0rGanalytics only make sense if we have somebody look at them
Nÿcoyes, you can, with unfollowers products
Ge0rGralphm: do you have the login credentials?
SouL>align what commTeam?
Let's stay calm Nÿco, jcbrand you and me are active (as in we are very reachable online), just need to write down tasks and check what can we do.
Ge0rGralphm: maybe you can see it on https://analytics.twitter.com then?
Nÿcofeeling pressure and aggression
Nÿcolet's ALL calm, no only me (and you're welcome)
ralphmI'm not sure who has credentials. I might have had credentials to a thing that allowed me to post.
ralphmBut I forget what it is named
Ge0rGralphm: something-i-team-something?
ralphmI am not on iteam
Ge0rGNÿco: would it be ok to move the wiki twitter pages to under /CommTeam/?
Nÿcosure, please do, and the original link
ralphmNÿco: no aggression intended, I just wanted to state how I felt when seeing those tweets come in.