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nyco
I am scheduling the tweets it is a good practice to remind and publish multiple times on Twitter
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nyco
please all review: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Basic_communication_guide_for_XMPP_techies
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pep.
I like it. Probably some phrases to change but I think that's good advice.
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pep.
I'm really not good at illustrations though, and I'd rather not waste time on it if I can :x
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ralphm
nyco: well, I think there a lot of people that find such repetition quite annoying (like me). Especially if there's nothing in between.
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tom
it's horrible. we gotta start over from scratch and rewrite it in rust
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jcbrand
ralphm: agreed.
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jcbrand
I generally unfollow accounts that do that
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jcbrand
At least that do it in an obvious and annoying easy
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ralphm
Indeed
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pep.
I'm happy not to be on Twitter
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Nÿco
the people in this room are not targeted, obvioulsy
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Ge0rG
So I'd like to channel the discussion about the usage of the @xmpp twitter account into here.
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Ge0rG
ralphm: IIRC you had a comment on that as well?
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: ping :)
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Nÿco
ping what?
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Nÿco
why the smiley?
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Nÿco
hey commTeam, we are quite passive here, wanna stay that way?
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: I agree that we need to make some noise, but in the form of actual content and not just by spamming slightly-related word-lists
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Nÿco
some tweets do not kill a few repetitions on Twitter is a must, because once posted, a tweet is drown and forgotten
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Ge0rG
If there is an article about XMPP, or a newsletter, fire it out! If there is none: write an article and tweet it
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: I'm actually reading all my Twitter timeline.
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Nÿco
that's your opinion: it is advise and a good, proven practice to promote newsletter for a week, via a few tweets, showing/summarising different parts of the content
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Nÿco
you're welcome
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Ge0rG
cross-posting from xsf@, as it is publically archived: <Guus> Are we intentionally sending out repeated newsletter tweets? It is starting to get annoying. <Guus> nyco are you triggering these? Maybe cut down on the frequency?
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Nÿco
you do read the whole thing, most people don't again you're not targeted here
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: our feed reads like a hyperactive ADHD teenager.
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Nÿco
again your opinion
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Nÿco
and that's not nice to say
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Nÿco
and who is "our"
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Nÿco
?
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: @xmpp
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Nÿco
oh our, what have you done for it?
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Nÿco
next time, let's schedule together the tweets, ok?
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Nÿco
quite sure you agree on the checklist: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/News_and_Articles_for_the_next_XMPP_Newsletter#Newsletter_editors:_TODO.2Fchecklist
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: I do agree on the checklist, yes. But I don't see "make five tweets for one newsletter" there.
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Nÿco
five is ok, all are different, each have likes/retweets from different accounts
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Nÿco
it is working...
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Nÿco
not for you, and for a few members, I have heard and understood
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: sorry for my frustration, but you were disappeared from XMPP and still tweeting, and apparently nobody was able to reach out to you.
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Nÿco
this burst is not meant for you
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Nÿco
nobody tried
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Nÿco
your frustration must not translate in burst of misplaced opinions and aggressivity
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Nÿco
I have heard what a handful of the inner circle are complaining about I anticipated it I took the risk so far, it pays off
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: okay, please let me focus and rephrase my criticism. The twitter wave really looks like cheap SEO. For example, https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1169145821704708097 is listing a bunch of XMPP implementations and a link to the subscription page (not even to the newsletter), and most of the implementations aren't even covered by the last newsletter.
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Nÿco
> The twitter wave really looks like cheap SEO. Twitter is "cheap" It is NOT SEO, does not contribute to it
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Ge0rG
Just because Google isn't indexing twitter?
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Nÿco
> For example, https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1169145821704708097 5 people not in the inner circle have liked it, contributing to its amplification proofs by the number, not any opinion
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Nÿco
I hear you, do you hear me?
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: how many people stopped following @xmpp since september 3rd?
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Nÿco
and we have two new newsletter subscribers, which is low
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Nÿco
I don't know, do you?
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Nÿco
and *WHO* would have unfollowed AND followed? number are important here, indeed, but also who we target
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: you should
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Nÿco
should whatN
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: you should know how many people stopped following on twitter.
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Nÿco
reach out, touch people outside our community, expand
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Nÿco
you should too
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Nÿco
as you should contribute to the newsletter and tweets
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: no. I'm not the one doing risky campaigns.
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Nÿco
after all, you are a product manker and should know how to promote
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Nÿco
you risk even more not doing anything
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Nÿco
and the risk is your opinion, again
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: you did a campaign. Fine. You didn't align with the commteam. Not so fine. You didn't even measure the negative impact. Not fine at all.
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Nÿco
I have the account, I will get numbers
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: that would be awesome
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Nÿco
the commTeam did nothing
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Nÿco
did you measure?
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Nÿco
enough... :'(
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Nÿco
dormant accounts show a wrong image
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Nÿco
a few repetitions are at worst some kind of annoying
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: please don't get me wrong. It's really great to increase our outreach, and to do experiments, but when we do so, we should know the pros as well as the cons
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Nÿco
our survival is at stake here
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: yes, but what do you gain if 100 people unsubscribe because they think it is spamming, and only 10 new people subscribe at the same time?
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Nÿco
if it is great, then so be it, end of discussion, no need to thank me
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Nÿco
when I try to get feedback before doing something I got at best a "yeah, cool" and that's it
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Nÿco
teh commTeam is not active, I know, I contributed to create it years ago
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Nÿco
number and WHO, again, "WHO" is important 100 XSF members unfollow? good! 10 new key developers and decision makers? FAR BETTER!!!
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Nÿco
while we argue, I can't search the analytics
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Nÿco
https://analytics.twitter.com/
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: who can?
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Nÿco
let me check
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Nÿco
btw, I have improved my spreadsheet regarding the newsletter
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Nÿco
https://movim.eu:5280/upload/1ab8cd5d50a081e2fdf8ce43dca3047f8bd49889/XJSI6xSnciPpYpG43zrpH8t0goFs4Zx6Tu7GjQRf/Capture_d_e_cran_2019-09-10_a__16.15.10.png
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: is the above chart the number of subscriptions?
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Nÿco
yep
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Nÿco
JC's accomplishments, congrats and thanks to him
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Nÿco
I only contributing most links, and a few copywriting
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Nÿco
JC did setup the newsletter and blog post habits
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Nÿco
so I can't find the @xmpp password: someone, I can't know who, added me to Tweetdeck so I can post
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Nÿco
analytics are available to the ones possessing the password
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Nÿco
some individual public numbers of available on each tweet
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Nÿco
if you got the account, individual tweets have the full funnel
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Nÿco
analytics website is a high-level view
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Nÿco
generally, you need more than Twitter's analytics
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Nÿco
you need to gather and aggregate all your channels
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Nÿco
I'd say LinkedIn is a good channel
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Nÿco
it is worthwhile to invest it
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Ge0rG
Do you have to pay for linkedin?
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Nÿco
pleas note: on LinkedIn it is not acceptable to post multiple times about a blog post, due to post retention and natural amplification on Twitter it is different and due to the fire-and-forget nature of that platform
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Nÿco
nope
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Nÿco
how come can you not know that, and criticise the communication effort made? either you know how to promote or not
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Nÿco
https://www.linkedin.com/company/xmpp-standards-foundation/about/
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Nÿco
who does it belong to?
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Nÿco
on Twitter, individual and company/organisations have similar accounts
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Nÿco
on LinkedIn, both have different nature, and thus it is harder for an org to promote content, still possible
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Nÿco
on a FB page for example, it is almost impossible
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Nÿco
btw, it has been mentionned that we could fusion commeTeam and SCAM, as there is common
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Nÿco
sorry, correction: 7 new subscribers on the newsletter since latest one published my bad
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Nÿco
I was looking at the new subscribers since last time I checked, on sep 9
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Nÿco
in other words: we gained 16 new subscribers doing nothing during 2 months we gained 7 new subscribers, posting the latest and tweeting
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Nÿco
unfortunately, we don't know where the new subscribers are coming from... unless, we have analytics on our website
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: it looks like we don't have analytics on the website
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Nÿco
later, at the end of the month, I'll schedule a few tweets: * promote the newsletter, encourage people to subscribe before the next one is sent * call for contributions, so makers can promote their work
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Nÿco
that's a shame, I'd blame no one, cause I know...
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: both of these goals are worthy, and maybe they can fit into a single tweet? ;)
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Nÿco
I propose to schedule tweets on the wiki so it's transparent
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Nÿco
no they can't, different goals, different targets
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Nÿco
the likers/retweters will be different
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Ge0rG
Interesting point.
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: maybe we need different twitter accounts then? One for developers, one for... dunno?
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Nÿco
note: I have promoted the XMPP newsletter in a company's newsletter, contributing probably a few hits and no new subscribers
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Nÿco
sure, what would be your segmentation? who would take care of the different accounts?
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Nÿco
I'd go for LinkedIn first
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: The Matrix is doing a weekly "This week in matrix" video podcast. How about that? ;)
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Nÿco
no go
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pep.
We can reuse the idea, but not enough content for that
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Nÿco
we don't have the content, we don't have the resources
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pep.
Yeah, both
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Nÿco
I will not do it, too much effort
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pep.
If developers would write more about their projects, maybe
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pep.
*were to write more
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Nÿco
YES PLEASE: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Basic_communication_guide_for_XMPP_techies
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Ge0rG
I hardly managed to write the ten-years-of-yaxim blog post in time
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Nÿco
and that was great
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Nÿco
thx
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ralphm
A for the question on who admin's the XMPP Standards Foundation organization over at LinkedIn, that's Neustradamus. I've asked him to hand it over to me (and I'd in turn hand it over to commteam), but so far he hasn't.
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Nÿco
one of the best article of the summer!
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pep.
Nÿco, I have seen that yes, I also should write stuff
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Ge0rG
It was not half as great as I wanted it to be
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Nÿco
we should all write, we must write, we have no choice
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pep.
Ge0rG, write about your current efforts on MAM? :)
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Nÿco
it is greater published than in someone's head
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Ge0rG
pep.: that would be a technical blog post on my personal blog that's not on the planet
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Nÿco
I confess I do not blog about Nayego neither
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pep.
Better than nothing, it can still be linked on the newsletter
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: do you know that old saying? "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach"
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Nÿco
I do not agree with that, but that's funny :)
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Nÿco
done is better than perfect
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: yeah
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SouL
Hey guys, I would like to thank you both for discussing this, I'm super glad about Nÿco putting all this effort, I think it is important to state that. I'm short on time this week, but I would like to get up to speed with him and try to align the CommTeam on this matters, like scheduled tweets and so on. I feel I would like to discuss about how frequent the Newsletter is sent out and such stuff, but can't right now. I will follow the conversations and say something later today/this week
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Ge0rG
my last tech-post on xmpp is from 2017
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Nÿco
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Twitter_scheduling
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Nÿco
align what commTeam?
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: to make a constructive proposal: if there is no new content (i.e. blog post / newsletter), limit twitter posts to one per week
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Ge0rG
retweets don't count into that of course
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Nÿco
there are doers, and others
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Nÿco
no
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Nÿco
one tweet per week is not enough in a period of news, like a newsletter
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Nÿco
3 per week is cool
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: 3 per day is also cool, if there is actual new content
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Nÿco
please discuss frequency and content, I will listen and adapt, but please get to speed first
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ralphm
Could we maybe use what's coming in for the next newsletter and have Tweets on those when they come in?
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Nÿco
note: thinking out loud on the newsletter, maybe we should split the specs from the other content, like we used to do for the roundup
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ralphm
I think people would be less annoyed by repeats if there's stuff in between.
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Nÿco
assumption again, ready to listen
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Nÿco
again, people annoyed here are not the targets
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ralphm
Ok, let me rephrase that: *I* would be less annoyed.
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Nÿco
if those people unfollow, then it is not a problem
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Nÿco
yep, correct :)
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Nÿco
if the communities feel like we are reviving the "defunct XMPP", then good
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Nÿco
1k+ follower is not where we should be
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: so let's check how many people stopped following on twitter since the last newsletter
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Nÿco
I can't, said that, repeating
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Ge0rG
vs. how many started
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: yes, but maybe ralphm can
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Nÿco
again, again, again, not how many, but who followed/unfollowed more important: who has been reached
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Nÿco
message in a bottle: we need analytics, both Twitter and the website
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: we can't measure the *who*, but we can measure the *how many*
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Nÿco
Twitter alone is not enough, I repeat
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ralphm
Ge0rG: I don't know if I can keep track of number of followers on @xmpp.
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Ge0rG
analytics only make sense if we have somebody look at them
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Nÿco
yes, you can, with unfollowers products
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Ge0rG
ralphm: do you have the login credentials?
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SouL
>align what commTeam? Let's stay calm Nÿco, jcbrand you and me are active (as in we are very reachable online), just need to write down tasks and check what can we do.
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Ge0rG
ralphm: maybe you can see it on https://analytics.twitter.com then?
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Nÿco
feeling pressure and aggression
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Nÿco
let's ALL calm, no only me (and you're welcome)
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ralphm
I'm not sure who has credentials. I might have had credentials to a thing that allowed me to post.
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ralphm
But I forget what it is named
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Ge0rG
ralphm: something-i-team-something?
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ralphm
I am not on iteam
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: would it be ok to move the wiki twitter pages to under /CommTeam/?
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Nÿco
sure, please do, and the original link
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ralphm
Nÿco: no aggression intended, I just wanted to state how I felt when seeing those tweets come in.
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Nÿco
that is what I feel, no one can deny this
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: wiki does that automatically
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Nÿco
good
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Ge0rG
Nÿco: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/CommTeam/Twitter_scheduling
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SouL
>let's ALL calm, no only me (and you're welcome) Don't take it wrong :( I'm happy to have you working hard here
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Nÿco
does not look that way: "we will align", looks like you are correcting my, condescending teacher
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Nÿco
let's align what' to be aligned
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Nÿco
if there is a team, then let's align it
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Nÿco
let's not slow down contributions, rather encourage them, and help people get up to speed
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Nÿco
I see a lot of help on the git
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Nÿco
I will help regarding social media
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Nÿco
but I won't tell anyone how to use git
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SouL
Ok then I'm sorry
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Ge0rG
Nÿco, SouL: it would be great if you could tag all the commteam-relevant pages with [[Category:CommTeam]]
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Ge0rG
in the wiki
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Nÿco
good idea, if there is a need, seems like premature optim to me, but I may be wrong
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Nÿco
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/CommTeam/Twitter_scheduling#Template
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Nÿco
added my intentions, I will fill later
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Nÿco
to all: good for transparency and collaboration, I double-approve but it is much much more work: copy, paste, adapt, download, upload...
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Nÿco
goota go, kids cannot wait
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Nÿco
thx all for this discussion, I feel like the collab might take off