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emus
peetah, wurstsalat: All merged! Thank you guys!
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peetah
how about using the @xmpp@fosstodon.org or another dedicated account to explain XEPs as simply as possible ?
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pep.
peetah, you'd pick a random XEP and try and explain it?
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pep.
Or would you do that for every XEP that gets changed
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peetah
it would need to be short, simple, user centric, explaining what problem it solves, what constraint it brings and when possible how it is better than other protocols
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pep.
peetah, the issue with that is not all XEPs can be explained easily
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peetah
I guess every XEP from 001 to the ned
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peetah
that would be the challenge
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pep.
They're more technical things in there, and there's lots of XEP that depend on others that are more technical :P
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peetah
ok so we could decide here which one would be the most valuable and draft it here before sending on microblogging platform✎ -
peetah
ok so we could decide here which would be the most valuable and draft them here before sending on microblogging platform ✏
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pep.
You can probably summarize PubSub as "Publish Subscribe" and explain the concept, but then explaining why there's a change in there from "this" to "that" that changes the meaning of 90% of the thing (as an example) and also all dependant XEPs :x
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peetah
the idea is to make users more aware of the modularity of their tool, and give them arguments to promote it
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pep.
I don't think it's important to end users tbh :/
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pep.
It's important to devs for sure
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peetah
I'm not talking about explaining the changes, but what each of them are
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pep.
I don't understand
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peetah
people often complain about the number and complexity of XEPs, why this one is implemented in a server, this one in a client, how they impact them directly and why they should care when choosing their client or server
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peetah
the idea is to make all this XEP environment easier to grab
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pep.
"people"?
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pep.
We're actually trying to figure out here what kind of people we're targetting :P
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peetah
user writing comments on the various platform where the newsletter is published
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peetah
that is why I was suggesting a separate microblogging account, so taht it is separated from the newsletter✎ -
peetah
that is why I was suggesting a different microblogging account, so that it is separated from the newsletter ✏
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peetah
if it becomes a reality , we would talk about it in the newsletter but it would live on its own
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pep.
Right but are these users really a group of people that need to be exposed to XEPs
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peetah
not all of them, bu some are willing to understand the modularity of XMPP to make informed choices✎ -
peetah
not all of them, but some are willing to understand the modularity of XMPP to make informed choices ✏
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peetah
and reading the full specifications of a XEP is not very tempting
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peetah
the microblogging format could be the start of a discussion with those users around a XEP to catch what should be explained and what should be left to experts/developers
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peetah
this whole discussion could then be summarized in the wiki✎ -
peetah
the result of this whole discussion could then be summarized in the wiki ✏
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pep.
Tbh I'd also like to have vulgarization material even for developers
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peetah
it's 23h34, I'm just thinking out loud✎ -
peetah
it's 23h24, I'm just thinking out loud ✏
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pep.
Maybe that can help more technical non-technical users also :)
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Licaon_Kter
Not a bad idea, but do start with those under 0423 ;)
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pep.
Yeah sure, the order is not exactly the most important thing just now :)
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peetah
no but it can have its importance if we think of the learning curve
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pep.
I'll repeat though, for end-users -- like a big chunk of people on linuxfr -- I don't think this is something they need
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pep.
They might be interested in what features they client have, not what a (doesn't have to be the only one) protocol that client is using can do✎ -
pep.
They might be interested in what features their client have, not what a (doesn't have to be the only one) protocol that client is using can do ✏
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peetah
I would need that :)
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emus
peetah, I recently had similar ideas in mind. I like it basically. How this should be done can be discussed. But I basically like it
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pep.
emus, a series of blog post or sth? :p
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emus
Videos 😀
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emus
I also still have my podcast idea in mind
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peetah
again what I would like to be able to do on my own is to explain why XMPP is better than such and such other protocols/tools
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peetah
and to do so, I need short and strong arguments, relying on a good knowledge of the XEPs
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pep.
Tbh I don't think the strengh of XMPP is in any individual XEP
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pep.
It's in the fact that XEPs are a thing
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pep.
(That it's possible to extend the protocol)
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peetah
can you do what X and Y is doing ? yes there's a XEP for that and it's doing it more efficiently !
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peetah
but not implemented everywhere...
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pep.
Because there are lots of XEPs that are actually useless, there are some that are even harmful, then there's those that have nice goals but the spec is sub-par, and there are those that most implementations are using that still have lots of things that needs fixing but won't be changed exactly because everybody is using them✎ -
pep.
Because there are lots of XEPs that are actually useless, there are some that are even harmful, then there's those that have nice goals but the spec is sub-par, and there are those that most implementations are using that still have lots of things that need fixing but won't be changed exactly because everybody is using them ✏
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pep.
peetah, yeah I think that's slightly misguided
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emus
I like the basic approach he has. Maybe XEPs are not he best way to directly advertise XMPP. But maybe peetah can create a few example what he would like to advertise and we look what we can do with it. In general, it is good to make clear why XMPP is the best 🙂 😀
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Licaon_Kter
Eg. PEP XEPs....it's OMEMO but also Movim stuff...but also whatever Salut-a-toi adds up
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emus
I dont understand
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pep.
Yeah I also don't understand. Is that the list of XEPs you'd like to see explained
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peetah
I'm not sure it is the best since I don't have the basic bricks to explain how it works: there are only complex specifications that even repulse those already involved
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peetah
I would like to create those basic bricks that would allow any one to have a global understanding of this ecosystem
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emus
And I join your intention. I am just not sure whats a good way. Mapping of or generaliszing the important XEPs could be helpful too? even for tech-newcomers
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peetah
I believe a simplification effort is required in order to redirect interested end-users to something more accessible than the XEPs specifications: what, why, current limits and possibly how it compares to their equivalents in other tools
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emus
Yep! Why XMPP? <reasons>