XSF Communications Team - 2021-01-12

Hi commteam, editor redirected me here, what should be done to merge https://linkmauve.fr/software/clients.html to replace https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html ?

I already have a docker thingy done, because I’ve been told to.

Link Mauve: yeah, I think that is great work an I am happy to merge it. One thing, would it be possible to show a list view too? jcbrand, SouL

emus, with the same information, or just reverting to https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html ?

Link Mauve: hmm, no not reverting - its great. I just though for one or the other a list view would be fine. it does not need to be the same view as before, just a switch to see it as a list/table (what ever would be the easiest for you) ✏

I don’t think either would be easy. :s

In case it doesn’t show, I’m very clueless about web stuff.

And converting a hierarchical title structure into a list or table sounds like hard work. :x

emus, what would be the use case?

Link Mauve: okay is alright

No problem

What further actions do you expect from us now?

Hmm, to know how to integrate it into the website mostly.

In a way that can be automated on each deployment.

Link Mauve: but it will have one picture for each client?

If each client submits a DOAP file containing at least one screenshot, yes.

Oh

I submitted a ProtoXEP to describe the workflow: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1027

Clients are in total control of the data that will be cached at xmpp.org, this change only uses said data.

> Link Mauve escribió: > Hmm, to know how to integrate it into the website mostly. > In a way that can be automated on each deployment. I personally would like to help you - but I cannot - have you thought about asking in the infrastructure chat? I guess you have been writing there, right? We need to find one who knows how to do it and have time

Hello everybody.

Hi

I think XMPP is missing a great opportunity to gain many new users. XMPP is letting itself be overtaken by Telegram and Signal. A buch of users are now leaving WhatsApp and they are looking for alternatives. Unfortunately they don't know about XMPP and they are joining Telegram, Signal, etc. Telegram has opensource clients, but its centralized server is proprietary. Signal has an opensource centralized server, but it lacks a truly opensource client.

Well, I volunteered to help publicize XMPP, namely on social networks. This room was indicated to me as the proper place to receive instructions and to start helping.

_instructions_

Paganini: which clients/servers do you use? Do you host?

Paganini: We are really happy with supporters of the XMPP newsletter if you want to start helping with that legit issue

> We are really happy with supporters of the XMPP newsletter if you want to start helping with that legit issue Mind that the newsletter isn't the only possible way to promote XMPP 😉

> Paganini: which clients/servers do you use? Do you host? No, I don't host. I'm using Movim service provider. Here on Android the client I'm using is Conversations.

Newsletters? We are in 2021....

> Newsletters? We are in 2021.... That's a nice refreshing perspective perhaps 😀 What do you think would be a suitable way to promote XMPP?

Paganini, someone who would be posting regular updates on clients/servers/articles would be of great help indeed. have a look at https://xmpp.org/blog.html for content. outlets would be twitter and possibly other places

> shubiduh escribió: > Mind that the newsletter isn't the only possible way to promote XMPP 😉 Yes, sure. But it is a good start

> Paganini escribió: > Newsletters? We are in 2021.... Obviously, we are not publishing this to email only

> That's a nice refreshing perspective perhaps 😀 What do you think would be a suitable way to promote XMPP? Social networks, other instant messengers, etc... People are currently posting on Facebook, inviting people to leave WhatsApp (and even Facebook itself) and migrating to Mastodon, Parler, Signal, Telegram...

> Paganini, someone who would be posting regular updates on clients/servers/articles would be of great help indeed. have a look at https://xmpp.org/blog.html for content. outlets would be twitter and possibly other places Thanks, it sounds great.

The newsletter (or generally posts on client/servers) might be suitable to keep existing users up-to-date. But frankly I'm not sure how good a job they do at getting people into the XMPP ecosystem. You need to be interested in XMPP first before you care about client updates. Taking part in messenger-related discussions on social media might be a way to acchieve that. To inform people of advantages of XMPP over [other messenger]. (I'm mentioning this idea because Paganini is specifically talking about social media)

Paganini: > Newsletters? We are in 2021.... Funny to say that over XMPP :))

shubiduh: given these are published *not only* as actual emails, the name is a misnomer

> The newsletter (or generally posts on client/servers) might be suitable to keep existing users up-to-date. But frankly I'm not sure how good a job they do at getting people into the XMPP ecosystem. You need to be interested in XMPP first before you care about client updates. > Taking part in messenger-related discussions on social media might be a way to acchieve that. To inform people of advantages of XMPP over [other messenger]. (I'm mentioning this idea because Paganini is specifically talking about social media) I couldn't agree more.

Licaon_Kter, I'm aware that they are not only sent as email. But that doesn't invalidate anything I've said.

500 people obviously care to have it by email. Else they'd need RSS or a fedi/twitter account ✏

500 people obviously care to have it by email. Else they'd need RSS or a fedi/twitter account *to stay up to date ✏

as said, that's not the point I've been trying to make. Those 500 people are already interested in XMPP and they want ecosystem updates. That doesn't have much to do with getting new people interested.

shubiduh: we agree

> Well, I volunteered to help publicize XMPP, namely on social networks. This room was indicated to me as the proper place to receive instructions and to start helping. To pick up this initial question: To my knowledge, the newsletter is pretty much the main project of the communication team right now. So there is no coordinated effort to promote XMPP on social media beyond posting the newsletter. Now and then people post a link to a twitter/mastodon post and ask people to comment on it on the platform, but it's a rather rare thing. I'd think it would be great if you'd do more in that direction. You could help by partially creating and shaping such an effort 🙂 ✏

(All of that is "to my knowledge", since I'm not part of the communications team)

emus, could you link these in this room’s subject? https://fosstodon.org/@xmpp https://twitter.com/xmpp and for the newsletter: our new pad ?

shubiduh: the newsletter is an effort to bring together all the news. While it's nice to boost links as you find them, this takes more time and resources.

shubiduh: Its not that we dont want. It is that we have limited ressources. If more people will help preparing the newsletter we can release more ressources to other approaches

wurstsalat: Can you remind me on friday, I have only limited time till thursday evening unfortunately, but afterwards, I should have time

emus, sure :)

wurstsalat: thanks. Then I hope I will also have time for a propaganda tweet 😉

shubiduh: Is there already a XMPP Facebook page?

> shubiduh: the newsletter is an effort to bring together all the news. While it's nice to boost links as you find them, this takes more time and resources. Licaon_Kter: You seem to have misunderstood me. I did not suggest to post links (about clients/servers) as you find them. I suggested to take part in diskussions on social media (e.g. if someone writes that they dislike signals company policy, tell them that there's XMPP and what advantages it has). Taking part in diskussions wouldn't have to be as the xmpp account, it can be just anyone with any account.

shubiduh: same issues, not enough....humans ✏

I know that outreach takes effort. And that volunteers are a limited resource. But here we have someone who wants to help with social media specifically. All I'm saying is that it might not be a good idea to point *everyone* that wants to do something to the newsletter, especially if they have other things in mind. There can be other efforts. The newsletter doesn't have to be perfect before someone can start involving themselves on e.g. discussions under the signal twitter account.

> Is there already a XMPP Facebook page? Paganini, this one is linked on the webpage: https://www.facebook.com/jabber/ however it doesn't seem to be maintained.

> Licaon_Kter: You seem to have misunderstood me. I did not suggest to post links (about clients/servers) as you find them. I suggested to take part in diskussions on social media (e.g. if someone writes that they dislike signals company policy, tell them that there's XMPP and what advantages it has). Taking part in diskussions wouldn't have to be as the xmpp account, it can be just anyone with any account. I agree.

> Paganini, this one is linked on the webpage: https://www.facebook.com/jabber/ however it doesn't seem to be maintained. Thanks. I'll check it later on.

We could write a brief explanation of the advantages of using XMPP and then use it on posts, private messages, social network profiles, groups or "pages". And we could translate it to other languages, begining with the ones with more speakers, like Spanish, Portuguese, French and Arabian.

I can help with translation to French, btw.

Great. I can help with translation to portuguese.

It will be easy to find people who can translate it into spanish, italian, german...

I don’t have a Facebook account though.

> Paganini escribió: > We could write a brief explanation of the advantages of using XMPP and then use it on posts, private messages, social network profiles, groups or "pages". And we could translate it to other languages, begining with the ones with more speakers, like Spanish, Portuguese, French and Arabian. You can make suggestions to improve the website with the things we have there already, too. There are advantages listed

emus: People are finally giving importance to things like decentralization, encryption, free speech, opensource...

I hope so

Just some ideas: - Connecting posts to current events (but never try to hijack), at least from time to time. It will help others to grasp the meaning of why something matters and will more likly motivate action. - coordinated campaings from time to time. Choosing a date and time to collectivly engage about a specific topic through different accounts. That will help to gain more reach, developes community and allows storry telling from several different cultural positions, also to reach into different social circles while at the same connecting them. -

purplebeetroot - to help to understand how we currently work: Review the time you can spend for the things you wish to see, then pick what is feasable within that time and helps the most. Then lets discuss how we can support you with this. The point is: You have good points, but we are all limited with the ressources. That makes noone happy, but is the situation. So, at least for myself, I see what time I can invest and see what works out in that range. But I also try to understand what other can do and be realistic about our options, without ruining, existing things.

So, if you can invest e.g. one hour per month, I suggest to join the newsletter approach we have. It will be shared on several platforms, but to get that done we need more people. But if I for example have to invest one hour less there, I can invest it into other projects. That is what I can offer so far. Everyone here works voluntarily, fyi

Oh, maybe I misunderstood something. I thought someone offered resources to do some posting via social media. What I wrote was related to that. If that's not the case, my post has no point. Otherwise: It ain't need to be more resource consuming, depending on how it's done.

> I thought someone offered resources to do some posting via social media Yes that is the case.

> But if I for example have to invest one hour less there, I can invest it into other projects. Sorry, buy why does it make sense that someone else (who wants to do social media) invests one hour into the newsletter such that you can invest one hour into social media? Why not just let _them_ invest their one hour into social media o.O

purplebeetroot: Yes we can prepare some tweets but give me time till the weekend

> We could write a brief explanation of the advantages of using XMPP and then use it on posts, private messages, social network profiles, groups or "pages". Paganini: For replies on social media posts one should probably be careful to not make it sound like a copy-paste text. Maybe the brief explanation could serve as a template or inspiration that can be adjusted for every discussion.

> Paganini: For replies on social media posts one should probably be careful to not make it sound like a copy-paste text. Maybe the brief explanation could serve as a template or inspiration that can be adjusted for every discussion. Off course...

Oh, that sounds a bit like a toxic working culture that seeds most out, having ideas that differ from status quo. > Sorry, buy why does it make sense that someone else (who wants to do social media) invests one hour into the newsletter such that you can invest one hour into social media? Why not just let _them_ invest their one hour into social media o.O

Also, maybe start doing it as you yourself, before making it official with an @xmpp user?

Link Mauve, my suggestion would actually be to keep doing it as individuals and never do it as @xmpp.

Posting as @xmpp means representing the XSF. That means one has to be very careful about what exactly to write. Posting as individuals gives more flexibility and might also embedd the posts better into the discussion. When a post comes from @xmpp, people would just think "oh yeah, that's marketing". But posts from individuals are just individuals honest opionions.

shubiduh, +1.

purplebeetroot: I just made an example how we work here and what would might must happen if you want to see other actions from me currently than the Newsletter. Obviously, you can engage yourself in what you think is right.

And the official account can always boost/retweet that post

> Connecting posts to current events (but never try to hijack), at least from time to time. It will help others to grasp the meaning of why something matters and will more likly motivate action. purplebeetroot: You mean like for example the current whatsapp thing? Saying that data of XMPP users doesn't go to facebook? > coordinated campaings from time to time. Choosing a date and time to collectivly engage about a specific topic through different accounts. That will help to gain more reach, developes community [...] I like this idea 🙂 A coordinated effort at the same time might also be more motivating than everyone posting individually at different times. > and allows storry telling from several different cultural positions, also to reach into different social circles while at the same connecting them. It sounds nice 😀 But realistically it will probably be, like, three people answering to 10 posts on twitter 😀 Maybe it can grow over time.

emus, you don't have to do everything 🙂 In fact, it is a good thing when there are things that you are not involved with, because it means that the outrech effort grows 🙂

👍

shubidu > purplebeetroot: You mean like for example the current whatsapp thing? Saying that data of XMPP users doesn't go to facebook? Yes. If one manages to join in early enough telling the story, it can be news to others. > I like this idea 🙂 A coordinated effort at the same time might also be more motivating than everyone posting individually at different times. > It sounds nice 😀 But realistically it will probably be, like, three people answering to 10 posts on twitter 😀 Maybe it can grow over time. If 3 people do so, I'd call that a success. If 3 people manage to do that regulary I call that a great success since its propably motovating bystanders to join in from time to time. (I' guess I'm such a bystander)

> purplebeetroot: I just made an example how we work here and what would might must happen if you want to see other actions from me currently than the Newsletter. > Obviously, you can engage yourself in what you think is right. +1 Ah I see, then I miss inderstood you.