XSF Communications Team - 2022-04-26

  1. emus has left
  2. adiaholic has joined
  3. patasca has joined
  4. adiaholic has left
  5. patasca has left
  6. adiaholic has joined
  7. adiaholic has left
  8. adiaholic has joined
  9. patasca has joined
  10. wh0 has left
  11. wh0 has joined
  12. *IM* has left
  13. adiaholic has left
  14. *IM* has joined
  15. adiaholic has joined
  16. Ingolf has joined
  17. adiaholic has left
  18. adiaholic has joined
  19. adiaholic has left
  20. Ramiro Romani has joined
  21. patasca has left
  22. adiaholic has joined
  23. adiaholic has left
  24. adiaholic has joined
  25. patasca has joined
  26. adiaholic has left
  27. adiaholic has joined
  28. Ingolf has left
  29. adiaholic has left
  30. patasca has left
  31. adiaholic has joined
  32. adiaholic has left
  33. adiaholic has joined
  34. patasca has joined
  35. patasca has left
  36. SouL has joined
  37. singpolyma has left
  38. singpolyma has joined
  39. Jeybe has joined
  40. pitchum has joined
  41. Ingolf has joined
  42. p42ity has joined
  43. p42ity has left
  44. praveen has joined
  45. wh0 has left
  46. patasca has joined
  47. wh0 has joined
  48. adiaholic has left
  49. wurstsalat has joined
  50. adiaholic has joined
  51. emus has joined
  52. Titi has joined
  53. adiaholic has left
  54. neox has joined
  55. adiaholic has joined
  56. msavoritias has joined
  57. adiaholic has left
  58. adiaholic has joined
  59. adiaholic has left
  60. patasca has left
  61. Titi has left
  62. Titi has joined
  63. Ramiro Romani has left
  64. Jeybe has left
  65. Jeybe has joined
  66. Ingolf has left
  67. Ingolf has joined
  68. adiaholic has joined
  69. patasca has joined
  70. patasca has left
  71. adiaholic has left
  72. adiaholic has joined
  73. adiaholic has left
  74. adiaholic has joined
  75. intosi has joined
  76. Alex has joined
  77. intosi has left
  78. intosi has joined
  79. patasca has joined
  80. adiaholic has left
  81. adiaholic has joined
  82. goffi has joined
  83. Katherine has left
  84. Katherine has joined
  85. Ingolf has left
  86. adiaholic has left
  87. la|r|ma has joined
  88. Alex has left
  89. adiaholic has joined
  90. Ingolf has joined
  91. Alex has joined
  92. la|r|ma has left
  93. adiaholic has left
  94. Wojtek has joined
  95. adiaholic has joined
  96. adiaholic has left
  97. praveen has left
  98. adiaholic has joined
  99. intosi has left
  100. intosi has joined
  101. la|r|ma has joined
  102. Ingolf has left
  103. Katherine has left
  104. adiaholic has left
  105. adiaholic has joined
  106. singpolyma has left
  107. singpolyma has joined
  108. intosi has left
  109. adiaholic has left
  110. adiaholic has joined
  111. adiaholic has left
  112. Alex has left
  113. singpolyma has left
  114. Alex has joined
  115. MattJ emus, what's the best email address to contact you regarding commteam stuff? (want to forward you an email received to info@xmpp.org)
  116. emus Its not directlt a role out of commteam I recommend to reply to the mail I wrote from. But to answer your question: xsfcommteam@protonmail.com
  117. emus MattJ:
  118. singpolyma has joined
  119. emus so what ever is fine. but I dont get forwards to my private mail
  120. MattJ I'm not talking about the email you sent to info@, but an email received from someone else that is relevant to commteam
  121. emus Ah alright! yes please
  122. emus but if you cc the other mail I would be very happy ☺
  123. pep. protonmail? You know you could get your own @xmpp.org address certainly :p
  124. pep. Well especially since you're not the only one in commteam
  125. Licaon_Kter Ain't PGP dead? :)
  126. pep. ?
  127. MattJ pep., the problem is we don't run IMAP at xmpp.org, everything there is an alias/mailman, and commteam wanted to be able to send/receive email from a specific address, hence the 3rd party
  128. pep. :/
  129. MattJ i.e. we don't actually host any email *accounts*
  130. singpolyma MattJ: could still allow sending mail there, no? IMAP is just for storage/retrieval
  131. pep. Technically there still needs to be an account but yeah no IMAP indeed. The mail needs to be sent from the machine that has authority over the domain so receiving SMTP entities can have their various checks pass
  132. MattJ singpolyma, sure, but at the time there requirement was send+receive
  133. pep. Receive can be an alias
  134. MattJ We still don't have that ability for the newsletter, apparently
  135. pep. stil
  136. pep. still
  137. pep. Senders would have to go through hoops to be able to use it properly though :/
  138. intosi has joined
  139. adiaholic has joined
  140. pep. (That is for example, including the alias in every outgoing mail so everybody in the alias sees what's happening. Kind of a weird trick because of no IMAP :p)
  141. pep. But if it were just one person behind it might work ok
  142. Ingolf has joined
  143. praveen has joined
  144. emus pep.: the proton account I took over from you guys 😅 and yes, I requested that several times but was not interest to do it so far
  145. singpolyma pep.: That's how my while company does everything (cc the team alias on replies). Last thing I would ever want is a second IMAP to check, muh nicer to have stuff forwarded to me. Of course everyone has their own preferred workflow, but it works well for us :)
  146. singpolyma pep.: That's how my whole company does everything (cc the team alias on replies). Last thing I would ever want is a second IMAP to check, muh nicer to have stuff forwarded to me. Of course everyone has their own preferred workflow, but it works well for us :)
  147. singpolyma pep.: That's how my whole company does everything (cc the team alias on replies). Last thing I would ever want is a second IMAP to check, much nicer to have stuff forwarded to me. Of course everyone has their own preferred workflow, but it works well for us :)
  148. MattJ emus, interest in what, exactly? Aliases/forwards have always been available, just an actual email account is not (and that is not going to change any time soon)
  149. pep. Talking about infra, what happened to contracting somebody?
  150. MattJ Our main priority right now is that the server that all this is running on is 2003 hardware with an OS that needs an upgrade but there's no guarantee that the newer OS would boot on that machine (we already have that problem with at least one other server in the "fleet").
  151. singpolyma MattJ: it's an owned server?
  152. MattJ Right now I think it's up to Board to choose between seeking a sponsor of new hardware, purchasing a new machine, or switching to VPS
  153. MattJ singpolyma, yes, the XSF has several dedicated servers which have been donated or purchased
  154. MattJ I think at this point the one handling the mail is our oldest that's still alive
  155. singpolyma And then paying for rack space or also donated in someone's cage?
  156. MattJ But some of them have changed hostname during the years, so it's hard to keep track
  157. MattJ We have a donated rack at USSHC
  158. MattJ (shared with jabber.org, which is technically not an XSF thing)
  159. singpolyma 32bit I guess, is that the main hw compatibility issue?
  160. MattJ 32bit, and concerns about whether it can boot from a partition not in the first 1024 sectors (we believe yes, but there's only one way to know for certain...)
  161. MattJ A long queue of yaks reside in this infrastructure
  162. MattJ and I really regretted moving the website to a VPS a year or two back (it costs more $, but less time in the long term)
  163. MattJ and I *haven't* really regretted moving the website to a VPS a year or two back (it costs more $, but less time in the long term)
  164. MattJ Which is why I resist adding more self-hosted/self-managed stuff to maintain unless it's strictly necessary
  165. singpolyma Yeah, I don't mind my dedis but if the hardware gets old it's a few clicks to bring up a new one. Owned hardware is not something that has tempted me too much yet 😅️
  166. singpolyma The website is all static isn't it?
  167. MattJ I think back in the olden days when we were younger, before cloud and VMs were everywhere, if someone said "I have a server going spare, want it?" was not something you'd turn down
  168. MattJ Yeah, the website is all static these days
  169. pep. Tbh I could probably get you hosted in a squat somewhere if you wanted :P
  170. MattJ Sounds reliable ;)
  171. pep. That's overrated :P
  172. Alex has left
  173. pep. Especially when we're hosting websites on solar power nowadays! (https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/)
  174. pep. And email's got a 48h tolerance so it's all good :P
  175. singpolyma MattJ: right, so barely even needs VPS, could do it on anything. Email could do a-la-carte (either at a mail host or get some shlub like me to donate email server infra). I'm not saying you should do this per se, I'm just thinking out loud :)
  176. pep. As a selfhoster myself I'd rather not have the XSF go full third-parties (cloud and whatnot). I think that's a line we should not cross and I'd have the XSF pay for this not to happen.
  177. Alex has joined
  178. pep. There's already github, the thing for the agenda, gcalendar also, gdrive, the newsletter thing that's fortunately going away(?), and many others I'm forgetting?
  179. singpolyma pep.: it's third parties all the way down, though. Even currently the rack/cage/datacentre are third party. Putting the website on sourcehut pages (as an example) means you don't get to walk into the cage, but that would be true with a VPS too. It means someone else has root, but that's also true with the VPS, or even the current infra (physical access being root and all that)
  180. pep. singpolyma, I meant, just owning the domain and not the data. Yeah surely a VPS is already an abstraction and I'm compromising here
  181. pep. Not asking the XSF to get its own datacentre
  182. singpolyma pep.: it *has* it's own datacentre. We're wondering out loud if that's bad
  183. pep. It doesn't, it has its own hardware in someone's datacentre :p
  184. MattJ pep., the question is, where do you draw the line, and how do you decide that?
  185. Ingolf has left
  186. MattJ I'm a self-hoster too (obviously), but it also has to be recognised that there are (often hidden) costs of self-hosting, and sometimes they aren't worth it
  187. MattJ So these have to balance against the problems with dependencies on third parties
  188. MattJ and I suspect the balance may shift depending on the service
  189. pep. We draw the line where we want to draw the line, but it has to be in line with the direction the XSF takes. I'm sure atm many people in the XSF wouldn't care because first they don't want to take care of the infra, and second they're part of this ideology and they're happy to give everything away and it's not an issue for them if the XSF reflects this
  190. pep. I'm not
  191. singpolyma Like, XSF could hire a contractor to run a mailserver. Or pay migadu. These seem effectively equivalent to me
  192. singpolyma It's only "self hosting" if you have a "self"
  193. pep. Self is the XSF? What else
  194. singpolyma XSF isn't a self, it's a comittee
  195. pep. It's a self enough to me
  196. singpolyma if XSF hires a contractor is that still "self" ?
  197. pep. As long as the XSF owns the data, that's a yes to me
  198. pep. Now that this chat has gone this far we can take it to infra@ if necessary, or we can pause here, whichever :)
  199. pep. I was mostly curious at first
  200. MattJ *iteam@
  201. pep. Thanks I was looking for it
  202. emus > MattJ escribió: > emus, interest in what, exactly? Aliases/forwards have always been available, just an actual email account is not (and that is not going to change any time soon) I just meant the email discussion I raised some time ago. but is fine now
  203. emus pep.: Thanks - It think if we hire someone, then in iTeam instead of commteam
  204. pep. emus, I just said so.
  205. Katherine has joined
  206. Katherine has left
  207. pep. Anyway I don't have much more to say about this topic and I'm not pesonally going to reanimate it over there. Just that I'd be sad that the XSF stops owning their data and that's where I'd personally draw the line because that's what I want the XSF to reflect. I want to encourage small self-hosted entities everywhere.
  208. Katherine has joined
  209. pep. But I'm happy to debate on what "owning" its data mean. Just getting to talk about this would already recentre the debate anyway and that's good to me
  210. Wojtek has left
  211. pep. fwiw, I'm annoyed about being told offtopic this or that. This discussion makes sense here because it's the continuation of another one and not everybody participating in is on the other channel
  212. MattJ I didn't see anyone say anything about off-topic until you did... ??
  213. pep. Ok that's how I interpreted emus' last message
  214. pep. But it's not the first time anyway
  215. pep. People seems to quickly draw the offtopic card around here and that annoyws me
  216. pep. People seems to quickly draw the offtopic card around here and that annoys me
  217. MattJ Okay, I have noted your annoyance
  218. pep. :P
  219. MattJ Maybe we should make a dedicate channel for that
  220. MattJ Maybe we should make a dedicated channel for that
  221. pep. Good
  222. Sam Annoyance is offtopic in this channel, please take it elsewhere. *pokerface*
  223. Sam (sorry, I couldn't resist)
  224. pep. :)
  225. emus > pep. escribió: > Ok that's how I interpreted emus' last message > But it's not the first time anyway No, it didnt meant offtopic. I just run with this account. Id prefer an xsf owned thing, but for that we would need more resources in iTeam. That's why I came to the same conclusion as you. but also dont know what to do here :/
  226. emus > pep. escribió: > People seems to quickly draw the offtopic card around here and that annoys me ?
  227. adiaholic has left
  228. emus > Sam escribió: > Annoyance is offtopic in this channel, please take it elsewhere. *pokerface* > (sorry, I couldn't resist) oh c'mon...
  229. Licaon_Kter That's a meme already emus, embrace it :)
  230. adiaholic has joined
  231. emus Licaon_Kter: offtopic 😉
  232. adiaholic has left
  233. Licaon_Kter 👍
  234. Alex has left
  235. adiaholic has joined
  236. Wojtek has joined
  237. adiaholic has left
  238. adiaholic has joined
  239. adiaholic has left
  240. adiaholic has joined
  241. Ramiro Romani has joined
  242. Alex has joined
  243. adiaholic has left
  244. patasca has left
  245. adiaholic has joined
  246. patasca has joined
  247. praveen has left
  248. praveen has joined
  249. adiaholic has left
  250. adiaholic has joined
  251. *IM* has left
  252. adiaholic has left
  253. patasca has left
  254. adiaholic has joined
  255. emus has left
  256. la|r|ma has left
  257. emus has joined
  258. adiaholic has left
  259. adiaholic has joined
  260. adiaholic has left
  261. adiaholic has joined
  262. Katherine has left
  263. Katherine has joined
  264. *IM* has joined
  265. intosi has left
  266. patasca has joined
  267. Alex has left
  268. Alex has joined
  269. patasca has left
  270. *IM* has left
  271. Katherine has left
  272. Katherine has joined
  273. *IM* has joined
  274. p42ity has joined
  275. la|r|ma has joined
  276. adiaholic has left
  277. adiaholic has joined
  278. Alex has left
  279. Alex has joined
  280. adiaholic has left
  281. Jeybe has left
  282. adiaholic has joined
  283. wurstsalat has left
  284. wurstsalat has joined
  285. adiaholic has left
  286. qwestion has joined
  287. adiaholic has joined
  288. adiaholic has left
  289. p42ity has left
  290. Katherine has left
  291. adiaholic has joined
  292. adiaholic has left
  293. patasca has joined
  294. adiaholic has joined
  295. adiaholic has left
  296. patasca has left
  297. *IM* has left
  298. *IM* has joined
  299. adiaholic has joined
  300. adiaholic has left
  301. adiaholic has joined
  302. adiaholic has left
  303. patasca has joined
  304. adiaholic has joined
  305. adiaholic has left
  306. Ramiro Romani has left
  307. Wojtek has left
  308. wh0 has left
  309. wh0 has joined
  310. patasca has left
  311. dindon-ccc has left
  312. dindon-ccc has joined
  313. adiaholic has joined
  314. praveen has left
  315. wh0 has left
  316. wh0 has joined
  317. adiaholic has left
  318. pitchum has left
  319. wh0 has left
  320. wh0 has joined
  321. adiaholic has joined
  322. Ramiro Romani has joined
  323. adiaholic has left
  324. adiaholic has joined
  325. adiaholic has left
  326. patasca has joined
  327. adiaholic has joined
  328. adiaholic has left
  329. adiaholic has joined
  330. patasca has left
  331. msavoritias has left
  332. jcbrand has left
  333. adiaholic has left
  334. SouL has left
  335. wh0 has left
  336. goffi has left
  337. wh0 has joined
  338. qwestion has left
  339. MattJ https://xmpp.org/rfcs/ is finally working :)
  340. emus so nice - I will try to remind to tweet :-)
  341. emus wurstsalat:
  342. MattJ I left a longer comment on wurstsalat's iteam issue, but nothing major
  343. MattJ I also just added a redirect for /rfcs/index.shtml which was the old index page that hasn't been updated for a long time
  344. patasca has joined
  345. emus cool
  346. qwestion has joined
  347. qwestion has left
  348. qwestion has joined
  349. adiaholic has joined
  350. adiaholic has left
  351. adiaholic has joined
  352. wurstsalat has left
  353. patasca has left
  354. adiaholic has left
  355. qwestion has left
  356. adiaholic has joined
  357. qwestion has joined
  358. qwestion has left
  359. qwestion has joined
  360. adiaholic has left
  361. Titi has left
  362. adiaholic has joined
  363. qwestion has left
  364. adiaholic has left
  365. qwestion has joined
  366. patasca has joined
  367. emus has left
  368. adiaholic has joined
  369. Ingolf has joined
  370. adiaholic has left
  371. patasca has left
  372. Katherine has joined
  373. la|r|ma has left
  374. patasca has joined