XSF Communications Team - 2022-04-26

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  115. MattJ

    emus, what's the best email address to contact you regarding commteam stuff? (want to forward you an email received to info@xmpp.org)

  116. emus

    Its not directlt a role out of commteam I recommend to reply to the mail I wrote from. But to answer your question: xsfcommteam@protonmail.com

  117. emus


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  119. emus

    so what ever is fine. but I dont get forwards to my private mail

  120. MattJ

    I'm not talking about the email you sent to info@, but an email received from someone else that is relevant to commteam

  121. emus

    Ah alright! yes please

  122. emus

    but if you cc the other mail I would be very happy ☺

  123. pep.

    protonmail? You know you could get your own @xmpp.org address certainly :p

  124. pep.

    Well especially since you're not the only one in commteam

  125. Licaon_Kter

    Ain't PGP dead? :)

  126. pep.


  127. MattJ

    pep., the problem is we don't run IMAP at xmpp.org, everything there is an alias/mailman, and commteam wanted to be able to send/receive email from a specific address, hence the 3rd party

  128. pep.


  129. MattJ

    i.e. we don't actually host any email *accounts*

  130. singpolyma

    MattJ: could still allow sending mail there, no? IMAP is just for storage/retrieval

  131. pep.

    Technically there still needs to be an account but yeah no IMAP indeed. The mail needs to be sent from the machine that has authority over the domain so receiving SMTP entities can have their various checks pass

  132. MattJ

    singpolyma, sure, but at the time there requirement was send+receive

  133. pep.

    Receive can be an alias

  134. MattJ

    We still don't have that ability for the newsletter, apparently

  135. pep.


  136. pep.


  137. pep.

    Senders would have to go through hoops to be able to use it properly though :/

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  140. pep.

    (That is for example, including the alias in every outgoing mail so everybody in the alias sees what's happening. Kind of a weird trick because of no IMAP :p)

  141. pep.

    But if it were just one person behind it might work ok

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  144. emus

    pep.: the proton account I took over from you guys 😅 and yes, I requested that several times but was not interest to do it so far

  145. singpolyma

    pep.: That's how my while company does everything (cc the team alias on replies). Last thing I would ever want is a second IMAP to check, muh nicer to have stuff forwarded to me. Of course everyone has their own preferred workflow, but it works well for us :)

  146. singpolyma

    pep.: That's how my whole company does everything (cc the team alias on replies). Last thing I would ever want is a second IMAP to check, muh nicer to have stuff forwarded to me. Of course everyone has their own preferred workflow, but it works well for us :)

  147. singpolyma

    pep.: That's how my whole company does everything (cc the team alias on replies). Last thing I would ever want is a second IMAP to check, much nicer to have stuff forwarded to me. Of course everyone has their own preferred workflow, but it works well for us :)

  148. MattJ

    emus, interest in what, exactly? Aliases/forwards have always been available, just an actual email account is not (and that is not going to change any time soon)

  149. pep.

    Talking about infra, what happened to contracting somebody?

  150. MattJ

    Our main priority right now is that the server that all this is running on is 2003 hardware with an OS that needs an upgrade but there's no guarantee that the newer OS would boot on that machine (we already have that problem with at least one other server in the "fleet").

  151. singpolyma

    MattJ: it's an owned server?

  152. MattJ

    Right now I think it's up to Board to choose between seeking a sponsor of new hardware, purchasing a new machine, or switching to VPS

  153. MattJ

    singpolyma, yes, the XSF has several dedicated servers which have been donated or purchased

  154. MattJ

    I think at this point the one handling the mail is our oldest that's still alive

  155. singpolyma

    And then paying for rack space or also donated in someone's cage?

  156. MattJ

    But some of them have changed hostname during the years, so it's hard to keep track

  157. MattJ

    We have a donated rack at USSHC

  158. MattJ

    (shared with jabber.org, which is technically not an XSF thing)

  159. singpolyma

    32bit I guess, is that the main hw compatibility issue?

  160. MattJ

    32bit, and concerns about whether it can boot from a partition not in the first 1024 sectors (we believe yes, but there's only one way to know for certain...)

  161. MattJ

    A long queue of yaks reside in this infrastructure

  162. MattJ

    and I really regretted moving the website to a VPS a year or two back (it costs more $, but less time in the long term)

  163. MattJ

    and I *haven't* really regretted moving the website to a VPS a year or two back (it costs more $, but less time in the long term)

  164. MattJ

    Which is why I resist adding more self-hosted/self-managed stuff to maintain unless it's strictly necessary

  165. singpolyma

    Yeah, I don't mind my dedis but if the hardware gets old it's a few clicks to bring up a new one. Owned hardware is not something that has tempted me too much yet 😅️

  166. singpolyma

    The website is all static isn't it?

  167. MattJ

    I think back in the olden days when we were younger, before cloud and VMs were everywhere, if someone said "I have a server going spare, want it?" was not something you'd turn down

  168. MattJ

    Yeah, the website is all static these days

  169. pep.

    Tbh I could probably get you hosted in a squat somewhere if you wanted :P

  170. MattJ

    Sounds reliable ;)

  171. pep.

    That's overrated :P

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  173. pep.

    Especially when we're hosting websites on solar power nowadays! (https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/)

  174. pep.

    And email's got a 48h tolerance so it's all good :P

  175. singpolyma

    MattJ: right, so barely even needs VPS, could do it on anything. Email could do a-la-carte (either at a mail host or get some shlub like me to donate email server infra). I'm not saying you should do this per se, I'm just thinking out loud :)

  176. pep.

    As a selfhoster myself I'd rather not have the XSF go full third-parties (cloud and whatnot). I think that's a line we should not cross and I'd have the XSF pay for this not to happen.

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  178. pep.

    There's already github, the thing for the agenda, gcalendar also, gdrive, the newsletter thing that's fortunately going away(?), and many others I'm forgetting?

  179. singpolyma

    pep.: it's third parties all the way down, though. Even currently the rack/cage/datacentre are third party. Putting the website on sourcehut pages (as an example) means you don't get to walk into the cage, but that would be true with a VPS too. It means someone else has root, but that's also true with the VPS, or even the current infra (physical access being root and all that)

  180. pep.

    singpolyma, I meant, just owning the domain and not the data. Yeah surely a VPS is already an abstraction and I'm compromising here

  181. pep.

    Not asking the XSF to get its own datacentre

  182. singpolyma

    pep.: it *has* it's own datacentre. We're wondering out loud if that's bad

  183. pep.

    It doesn't, it has its own hardware in someone's datacentre :p

  184. MattJ

    pep., the question is, where do you draw the line, and how do you decide that?

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  186. MattJ

    I'm a self-hoster too (obviously), but it also has to be recognised that there are (often hidden) costs of self-hosting, and sometimes they aren't worth it

  187. MattJ

    So these have to balance against the problems with dependencies on third parties

  188. MattJ

    and I suspect the balance may shift depending on the service

  189. pep.

    We draw the line where we want to draw the line, but it has to be in line with the direction the XSF takes. I'm sure atm many people in the XSF wouldn't care because first they don't want to take care of the infra, and second they're part of this ideology and they're happy to give everything away and it's not an issue for them if the XSF reflects this

  190. pep.

    I'm not

  191. singpolyma

    Like, XSF could hire a contractor to run a mailserver. Or pay migadu. These seem effectively equivalent to me

  192. singpolyma

    It's only "self hosting" if you have a "self"

  193. pep.

    Self is the XSF? What else

  194. singpolyma

    XSF isn't a self, it's a comittee

  195. pep.

    It's a self enough to me

  196. singpolyma

    if XSF hires a contractor is that still "self" ?

  197. pep.

    As long as the XSF owns the data, that's a yes to me

  198. pep.

    Now that this chat has gone this far we can take it to infra@ if necessary, or we can pause here, whichever :)

  199. pep.

    I was mostly curious at first

  200. MattJ


  201. pep.

    Thanks I was looking for it

  202. emus

    > MattJ escribió: > emus, interest in what, exactly? Aliases/forwards have always been available, just an actual email account is not (and that is not going to change any time soon) I just meant the email discussion I raised some time ago. but is fine now

  203. emus

    pep.: Thanks - It think if we hire someone, then in iTeam instead of commteam

  204. pep.

    emus, I just said so.

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  207. pep.

    Anyway I don't have much more to say about this topic and I'm not pesonally going to reanimate it over there. Just that I'd be sad that the XSF stops owning their data and that's where I'd personally draw the line because that's what I want the XSF to reflect. I want to encourage small self-hosted entities everywhere.

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  209. pep.

    But I'm happy to debate on what "owning" its data mean. Just getting to talk about this would already recentre the debate anyway and that's good to me

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  211. pep.

    fwiw, I'm annoyed about being told offtopic this or that. This discussion makes sense here because it's the continuation of another one and not everybody participating in is on the other channel

  212. MattJ

    I didn't see anyone say anything about off-topic until you did... ??

  213. pep.

    Ok that's how I interpreted emus' last message

  214. pep.

    But it's not the first time anyway

  215. pep.

    People seems to quickly draw the offtopic card around here and that annoyws me

  216. pep.

    People seems to quickly draw the offtopic card around here and that annoys me

  217. MattJ

    Okay, I have noted your annoyance

  218. pep.


  219. MattJ

    Maybe we should make a dedicate channel for that

  220. MattJ

    Maybe we should make a dedicated channel for that

  221. pep.


  222. Sam

    Annoyance is offtopic in this channel, please take it elsewhere. *pokerface*

  223. Sam

    (sorry, I couldn't resist)

  224. pep.


  225. emus

    > pep. escribió: > Ok that's how I interpreted emus' last message > But it's not the first time anyway No, it didnt meant offtopic. I just run with this account. Id prefer an xsf owned thing, but for that we would need more resources in iTeam. That's why I came to the same conclusion as you. but also dont know what to do here :/

  226. emus

    > pep. escribió: > People seems to quickly draw the offtopic card around here and that annoys me ?

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  228. emus

    > Sam escribió: > Annoyance is offtopic in this channel, please take it elsewhere. *pokerface* > (sorry, I couldn't resist) oh c'mon...

  229. Licaon_Kter

    That's a meme already emus, embrace it :)

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  231. emus

    Licaon_Kter: offtopic 😉

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  233. Licaon_Kter


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  339. MattJ

    https://xmpp.org/rfcs/ is finally working :)

  340. emus

    so nice - I will try to remind to tweet :-)

  341. emus


  342. MattJ

    I left a longer comment on wurstsalat's iteam issue, but nothing major

  343. MattJ

    I also just added a redirect for /rfcs/index.shtml which was the old index page that hasn't been updated for a long time

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  345. emus


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