XMPP Council - 2010-01-25

hi

is this logged?

No.

But neither's council@cjo, atm.

oh

hmm

just a sec, switching clients

Hmm... the irony... so busy with jabber.org that I forgot to write my membership re-application

Has the deadline passed?

I don't think so

not yet

End of the month

Good.

Lucky :)

MattJ: tip, put in a place-holder

I have the page open

Here we go.

So, anyone want to volunteer to scribe, or shall I?

I'm not sure what happens if you're voted out while a council member.

you're not voted out

erk

So, I volunteer to send out a room transcript.

too many accounts :)

:)

dwd: is that minutes, or just the log?

I can just copy and paste the log

it's fairly pretty from Psi

Heh.

well, better than from Adium anyway

Well, minutes can be sorted out anon.

indeed

1) Roll call

All here.

2) Agenda bashing.

I'll take the silence as a no.

3) Pubsub

agenda's fine :)

I was going to review this before the meeting, and found Tobias's diff tool's gone again.

hmph

me too

Or, rather

ok

I have been sufficiently busy to not go through these yet.

so

Ralph told me it had gone, and I trusted him.

dwd: understood

too busy too

We've got until the end of the week to vote on them.

4) PEP

similarly.

Likewise

I did notice not every change is in the diff

ehm, log

Kev: it seems that we need to make a diff real soon now -- shall we ping Tobias or produce this via SVN?

e.g. the addition of 'presence' as a value for pubsub#expires

psa: Tobias has a working tool, it just needs to be running on a jorg machine.

ah

ralphm: I'll double-check that right now

.

(Sorry, conducting heavy testing, unsure of my lag ATM)

ralphm: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0060-1.13.html#impl-tempsub

FWIW

Ok, so.

yes that is not in the changelog, afaics

5) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/microblogging.html

ralphm: ok

(Assuming everyone will vote pubsubby onlist)

ralphm: you're right

+1

I do have comments

but can do that on list

I had a nitpick with the microblogging, that it looked like the @addressing should be fully addressed, rather than by nickname. Other than that it seemed ok.

that spec is old and incomplete, I'd think

but a good start, probably

I think, as I did last time, that the notion of not being able to see replies to a post is bizzarre.

I am also wondering if the scope is too limited

I would like to see that worked into it.

That always opens a can of worms :)

I would like to discuss it at the summit

I strongly suspect that Buddycloud will have a huge input into this, and basically fix in.

MattJ: indubitably.

fix it, rather.

yes, having something to discuss at the summit sounds good

I'm not opposed to experimentalling it now, though - I've not seen much else on the table.

Agreed to discussing it, I think quite a few people would be interested in it

But, I think it's a good start, and forms the kernel of what we'll eventually get.

*nod*

I'm offering to chair that session

ralphm: XEP-0060 fixed

speaking of sessions, we need to figure out how we'll run the Summit, but that's another story :)

So I have no objection to this being adopted as a XEP.

So, do we have everyone not vetoing it?

We do that, I think

seems so

It's unclear if Remko or Matt have responded.

Sorry, I'm in favour

ihave

ok on experimentalling it

Ok.

it does need some discussions

6) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/decloak.html There's been a discussion on the list now about the alternatives, which was what we said last week we wanted before voting again, so...

yeah, sorry, I have not yet had a chance to update that one -- I started on it this morning and then things got a bit crazy :)

It seems to me that what's needed is some server logic for this, that falls between both the presence based and the subscription based stuff.

I'm not sure if I've been through /all/ the feedback on this, but I didn't see a concensus

And that it's probably going to end up in presence, so I won't block this.

I sure haven't read all feedback

I think this isn't my preferred approach, but I'm satisfied that discussion has occured, and that the alternatives have been considered, so no veto from me.

i still have quite some catching up to do, and i plan on doing it by the end of this week, so i can't really say much now

I wonder if this actually works in Google Talk

I can update the proposal soonish to at least describe more reasons for this approach

And FWIW, I suspect that it can co-exist with temp-subs.

ralphm, No, it won't.

ralphm, that's one of the issues

dwd: does directed presence work there?

IMHO we can define a <sesspres/> extension and use it in either <presence/> *or* <presence type='subscribe'/>

ralphm, yes, albeit in an interesting way :)

iirc they re-send direct presence every so often

psa, Right.

however, I would strongly prefer not using <presence type='subscribe'/> if we can avoid it

and using that just to route around GTalk's privacy policies seems like a bad idea

couldn't agree more there

psa: I don't think the motivation was ever to use it to route around GTalk.

better to convince them that their policy is misguided

Or wasn't for me, anyway.

Kev: I do

psa: that certainly would be nice

It just seems that what you're asking for, logically, is a temporary subscription.

psa, I think I agree with your proposal (and overloading type="subscribe" probably wouldn't be nice)

But as I say, I'm not vetoing it now that there's been discussion and I think a path will be found.

Kev: agreed

+1

no veto from me either

So, there's a long list of stuff being deferred on standards@. No action's required from us, but just so we're aware of it.

conceptually, there's not much difference, if any, between "sharing presence for the length of this session" and "temporary subscription" -- I am more focused on the syntactical difference between <presence/> and <presence type='subsribe'/>

(That was (7))

I'm +1 for a XEP on this, we don't have to vote on its current state

ok

right

psa: Yes, I think you want a bit of both, but I'll post onlist when I have some cycles to spare.

(8) Date of Next Meeting?

but I shall make some fixes to both microblogging and decloaking / sesspres before publishing

+1w

psa: ok, thanks.

Next week is fine by me

Next Monday I can do, I think.

WFM

Ok.

9) AOB?

sessions at summit?

and we ought to sort room logging here... I'll add that to my todo this week

for the next meeting perhaps we can also look at XEP-0001 (sanity check from the Council -- I have a bit of feedback from dwd to address)

psa, Tragically, I can't remember what it was... :-/

dwd: we have list archives :)

ralphm: oh, bother, right. I haven't sent out stuff about Friday yet.

I'll send out a mail straight after council.

Or straightish, anyway.

psa, Oh, right, that.

It's on my shortterm todo now, instead of sitting in my mailbox somewhere.

feedback appreciated on upcoming XEP deferrals, too http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2010-January/023038.html

hehe

no other business from me

I think that, basically, everyone who didn't get a session on Saturday should seek interest in their talk, and at some point on the Friday, gather interested people around and talk at them.

yeah, I made some comments on Jingle XML Streams

If people would rather, I'm happy to put a rough schedule for those together, or we can leave it freeform.

I'll ask on list which people prefer.

Kev: I'd just list possible topics

We're happy you're arriving at all, I think

aw, shucks

and we can get together early and make a large planner sheet

ralphm: do you have a list of the topics that people wanted, but weren't on the Saturday schedule?

Sure.

ralphm: yes

psa, I'll buy you a beer to make up for missing the beer event.

Then there's Monday.

Which I think we sort out on Monday morning.

dwd: heh thanks

Kev: or something :)

At least, that's my memory of past Mondays

Kev: afaik, most people got a slot on Saturday

Kev: yes, I might try to be more organized this time

ralphm: correct

there were some suggestions for highly speccy things

Ask in the morning what topics people want to discuss, order them by preference on the clap-o-meter, and go down the list.

+1

anything else? :)

I think not.

Kev: generally, on bar/foocamp like things, you put up a big sheet with slots

and then people will fill it

ralphm: this is for Friday? That sounds a good idea.

works like magic

yeah

Great.

Everyone else can hack at the back.

Ok, so, I think we're done.

yep, I think so

Thanks all

yaya

welcome!

I'll send this log to the council@ list

Thanks

Thanks.