XMPP Council - 2010-11-02

greetings!@

Greetings!

Back in 6.5 minutes :)

I told linuxwolf about the address for this room, I think he was still going to the old one :)

I checked with Ralph earlier that he'd be here, and Fritzy confirmed on-list, so I think we'll be good to go.

rock'n'roll

at least this week (-:

Yes, I'm happy with Wednesdays in general, Tuesday was just a little preferable.

yeah, it's also preferred around my office for sprint kick-offs

and since I must be at one, and should be all four…yeah, it's a long long day (-:

One to go.

ah, I see a left-handed emoticon, linuxwolf must be here ;-)

d-:

Swift shows icons as primary and names as secondary

Present

(-8

Where? Gimme.

yay for presents!

You'll have to wait :)

oh, good idea

I wish I'd recorded stpeter at the 2008 Brussels summit saying "Presence for everyone"

haha, did I say that?

I thought that was dwd.

You did

heh

You wrote it on the board too, presents for bots and for components, and for servers :)

Use your powers only for good, linuxwolf.

MattJ: that was Cridland.

I was there.

Ok, the clock turns 4.

I've never confused stpeter with dwd before :)

ok, focus

:)

Welcome Council of '10-'11.

haha, ok. Well, maybe Peter was in on it too. :)

Welcome Kev

Agendaness:

1) Roll call

All here.

2) Agenda bashing.

Any?

Actually.

That should be 3)

2) Selecting a chair.

don't we start at zero? :P

Do you like being chair, Kev?

0. Hello!

+1 for Kev

+1

Does anyone else want a shot?

Fritzy: I like 30minute meetings, and I don't mind doing it, so the two go quite well.

no thanks, I run enough meetings (-:

If Kev's happy for chair, I'm +1

+1 for Kev

Ta.

Unanimous, congratulations Kev :)

3) Agenda bashing?

for taking the job nobody else wants

None here

Kurt wants me to mention 258, so I'll do that later.

4) Council habits and other items of clothing.

A pun.

heh

A reminder to those who were here last year, and a re-introduction for Matt.

Largely these are in place so I can have my hating-meetings-going-over-30-minutes streak satisfied.

* It's nice for people to turn up to meetings, or let me know if you're not

* I don't think anyone has a problem with voting on-list instead of in-MUC.

* We have voting periods these days, instead of chasing Council members for months to read the specs, so if you've not objected within a fortnight of a meeting with a motion to Experimental, you'll be assumed to not have objected, and if you don't vote within a fortnight of a meeting with a vote, you'll be DNV, and marked as such (and your vote is counted as +-0.

I think that's largely it, anyone else?

fortunately all the /council pages are MIAA

-A

and do subscribe to http://xmpp.org/calendar/xsf-council.ics

+un?

ralphm: Someone on commteam should be chased.

we have http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/the-xsf-council/

I need the redirect list to be given to me so I can make all the old URLs work.

so that might need to be updated

MattJ: hmm?

Kev: indeed

^ unfortunately, not fortunately

Kev, nothing, ralphm said "fortunately" - it was a sarcasm or typo I think, all the same to me :)

Ah.

Right.

stpeter: I mean all of the old pages. Yes, I misplaced my sarcasmicon

5) Inviting authors.

good idea

Yes, so, there was a proposal at the end of last term that authors of XEPs being considered for advancement, or protoXEPs for acceptance, should be invited to the relevant meetings.

Yeah, I like that.

I think this is broadly a good idea.

+1

Whose job is it? :)

We started doing this last year, and the authors were largely either people who attend anyway, or replied saying 'sorry, can't make it', but I'm happy to start trying again.

MattJ: I'm delighted if someone else wants to, otherwise I'll assume it's mine.

it might also help to forward the agenda to standards@

+1

Right, I was going to make agendas point 6

Let's do that now :)

if an author follows the list or knows that their spec is up for discussion, they might join the meeting

6) Agendas

Since the council list isn't open to subscribers (afaik) that would make sense

council is open to subscribers

Last year I got into the habit of sending agendas out on Monday morning on the day of a meeting, by mail to council@.

but few subscribe

I've done the agenda by website in the past and consider it a nuisance, but we can go back to doing that if people want.

email is fine with me

stpeter - after your meeting can I ask if/how I can make changes to the calendar

I don't mind either way as long as I can read it :)

So which bits of agendaness would people like changed?

Sending it to standards@ is fine by me, I do that with the minutes anyway.

email to standards or council is fine with me.

standards might be better for transparency

No-one's complained about the agenda going out on the morning of the meeting, does this bother anyone?

The only issue I have with agendas is that sometimes I don't know well enough in advance what's to be on them :)

Ha

bear: sure thing, just edit the relevant events.xml file (they are sprinkled thoughout the repository), check in your changes, and run calgen.py on athena at /home/xsf/xmpp/

Fritzy: Well, it's transparent if it's on council@, as that's archived and public subscribable, but I don't mind forwarding to standards@ for general interest.

sorry guys…something odd is happening with my server today

In general it's not an issue, and I appreciate it's hard to keep on top of

linuxwolf: Can't trust those server guys.

Definitely not

i'll have to get with the infra team later to be added to git list

The reason it got to Mondays was that Peter started doing Radar to make my life easier, then Peter got busy and that got updated later, so I sent agendas later.

Now that I'm sorting out agendas based on the XEP Editor emails Peter sends out again, I can make them earlier.

http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Radar is handy

well, if we are moving to Wednesday, monday should be fine

when it's updated :)

So I'll endeavour to continue sending them out Monday morning, for the meetings later in the week.

Kev: WFM!

linuxwolf, I never trust those server guys either.

stpeter, when it's up to date radar is handy :)

bear: Talk to me later. I'll sort it out.

Kev, thanks - Monday works

sudo corrupts, root corrupts absolutely.

heh

MattJ: yeah, whn

why do you keep talking to bear? I don't see him saying *anything*

Ok, so, agenda-wise, I'll send to standards@ as well, send it earlier relatively, and copy in XEP authors.

most excellent

gravy

All good

7) XEP-0258 (labels)

Kurt'd like me to give a heads up that he's approaching ready with this, is going to tidy it up, encourage implementors to update to the latest, and then will be requesting a last call.

/nod

yay

Excellent

hopefully this incarnation sticks

I had a discussion with him about reverting to the :0 version, with flat catalogues etc because the current version is more complex, but he persuaded me that it needs a hierachy.

I have an implementation I can bring up to date then

you do?

linuxwolf, I think so. Given Kurt maintains ours, Kev maintains Swift's, and I maintain Gajim's, we can manage to bring those up to date.

Fritzy, I do, mostly :)

8) Date of next meeting.

plus, it helps that Kurt works directly with agencies that cannot be named

Fritzy, Interop tested no less.

I'll propose Wednesdays (starting in 8 days) at 4pm UK, and see how much Matt dislikes it.

You need to disambiguate "Matt" now Kev :)

linuxwolf, Including one that has called me a subversive. :-)

you'll need to clarify which "Matt" (-:

Bother.

heh

MW.

I'll survive for now

(at 4pm)

dwd: I thought you liked being called a subversive? (-:

WFM

+1

+1 for Wednesdays 1600UTC

Great, so next meeting'll be a week tomorrow.

Perfect

Who wants responsibility for updating the calendar?

I can do it

Excellent.

Oh, and minute writing. I'm happy to continue doing that, but if someone else is dying to do so I don't mind.

thanks, Matthew!

No, I didn't think so :)

Heh

:P

9) Any other business?

nossir

ralphm, what's FOSDEM status?

Kev: we might want to figure out better ways of keeping the Radar page up to date

when's the IETF meeting? Next week?

linuxwolf: Yes.

linuxwolf: yes, but no XMPP WG session

Also, is it worth raising my interop suggestion?

no, but I'm paying attention to kitten and hybi

however, I'll be presenting about internationalized JIDs at the PRECIS WG session

i need to remember hybi wg session next week

stpeter: Do you have something to suggest? Finding a volunteer to track council@ and update it sound s a good idea.

bear: make sure you have your flamesuit

we have a room

on saturday

Kev: something to discuss

I'd suggest we mail members@ asking for a volunteer to track council@ and stardards@ and update it accordingly.

I'll draft a Call for presentations soonish

Fritzy, bear: We'll debug after the meeting - since all 3 servers involved are Prosody :)

oh, and I've sourced a meeting room in Brussels for the Summit -- it's not in the center of town, but it's free and it should have good Internet connectivity since it's at a Cisco location

ok

stpeter: Excellent.

ralphm: Excellent, thanks.

(And thanks for stpeter too, didn't mean to exclude)

So dwd's Plan For World Domination^w^w^w^wInterop suggestion.

stpeter, wonderful, thanks

Anything worth discussing about that?

I think we just need to drum up support

Other than that I'm strongly in favour of just about everything he suggested.

about interop? I'm behind on the thread I started (as usual!)

I see tasks for iteam and commteam

stpeter: Summary:

my personal suggestion would be to just start doing it, make it visible and start letting people find their own way in

First week in December, do it online, XSF iteam set up DNS and certs, have a mailing list for people, and try and prove basic interop.

bear: It's a fine suggestion, but I think it's worth getting the message out strongly and soon that XMPP interop works just fine.

So I think it's worth putting the effort in to make an interop test work in the first instance.

kev, completely agree - I was just saying that over planning may hinder uptake

Agreed, a week of focus would be worth it

but we need some planning

I'm all for getting the interop news front and center

Oscon was too much anarchy

Oh, and to repeat here, Isode providing CA software is confirmed, if wanted.

oscon was also the first time we did interop of any serious nature

dwd: with one of my non-Isode hats on, that sounds good to the iteam :)

so the first week of december's interop will be just as messy until CA and DNS issues are sorted out

bear: we did interop for Jingle at FOSDEM a few years ago and that went well, plus lots of basic interop (especially s2s) at the very first Summit

oscon was hampered by dns, network and not having server folks on hand (I think)

I'm happy for the iteam to take on DNS and CA stuffs and make sure that works.

The main problem with the FOSDEM Jingle Thingle was lack of published results.

If we get a list of the servers that'll be taking part.

So I suggest that Board discuss this tomorrow, that they agree that it's a jolly good idea, and that the wheels get set in motion.

I have the domain xmpptest.com if you think it would be useful - I can move it to the xsf

OT: I love it when fellow Isoders disagree within the XMPP WG -- such a free-spirited corporate culture! ;-)

We've just hit 30mins, so I'm reached meeting-discomfort :)

heh

s/I'm/I've/

hehe

ok we can discuss the interop stuff in more detail next meeting, right?

s/I've/We've/g

Which reminds me that I need to submit http://doomsong.co.uk/extensions/render/xep-correct.html sometime.

Yes, and bear's promised to get Board to agree to it tomorrow, so all is good :)

:)

Right, any other any other business?

stpeter: maybe a separate meeting for interop

I think we're done

Fritzy: yes, could be

None here

Jolly good. I'll write up minutes and send out. (I usually aim for <=24 hours).

I've got one agenda item for next meeting: focus for this term

linuxwolf: noted.

but we can talk about it later and/or on list

linuxwolf: see also my roadmap post

Ok, thanks all.

@stpeter that's what I'm refering to (-:

Thanks Kev

adios amigos

it's great to see all this energy -- now we just need to sustain it :)

let's see what happens after the winter solstice (-:

:)

bear, ok - do you see Fritzy's messages?

'course, that was the council from 4-5 years ago, too (-:

yes

Fritzy, what client are you using?

Swift.

bear, what client are you using?

I see them now.

Swift

I restarted swift

Fritzy, oh really? It just started?

after setting my status

I suspect swift reconnected after my laptop went to sleep and I was marked as hidden

I think it was user-error on my part.

or that ;)

heh

oh - so you had me on the ignore list .... hmmm.....

:)

My ocular-grep was skipping your avatar.

Haha.

or rather, not associating it with you.

ok, on to my next meeting…ttyl

yea, still haven't figured out how to set that

bear: not through Swift yet. It'll be in 1.0.

*nod*

avatars as primary in mucs are cool, but confusing

not how my brain works, at least not without a real picture.

If you're in a MUC where people use avatars, I find it much much more convenient.

If people don't have avatars, less well.

Some abstracts work (e.g. I can associate MattJ and Peter by avatar fine), but I've not got bear's wired in yet.

I like Kev's 30-minute meeting policy

:)

it's a good one.

[16:34:00] * Kev bangs the gavel.

4 minutes over.

Yeah, I blame whoever brought up interop as an AOB.

stpeter, Incidentally, Isode people never disagree on the WG lists, because our participation in the IETF is always personal, thus we are not Isode people when we disagree. :-)

that's true

stpeter, OTOH, I have heard of some companies who have premeetings prior to IETF week to ensure all their participants toe the company line.

:D

Cisco folks are legendary for disagreeing at IETF meetings

stpeter, Oh, sure. I wasn't meaning Cisco.